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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Must resist starting Iron Warriors.
But for the pure marines, this is a bit overcosted IMO. B@C seems to still be the best way to get in, with these guys bolstering your forces

Not seeing how it's overcosted tbh - both boxes include 2 characters, 5 terminators, and 30 marines. All you give up for the 5 Custodes and 5 SoS is the janky monopose Contemptor, and I expect points-wise the former will substantially outweigh the latter, so unless you're playing a traitor Legion, you're really into Contemptors but don't want/can't afford the FW version, or you already own a couple of BoP boxes and so have no more need of Custodes and SoS, BoP seems like the better deal even for 30K Legion army builders. Even then, you could probably easily get enough cash from selling the Custodes/SoS to buy a proper FW Contemptor if you wanted rid of them.

In Canadian dollars, if you go by the standard tactical marines price, you pay for the three squads of marines and a character, and get the rest for free.

If you go by the mk4 private, you get both characters for free.

Which is good, because the characters hold no value for me, so I'll probably offload them for cheap.

Edit: I play a loyalist that likes mk4, unless you are implying something, sir!

Hopefully the reaper autocannons will go on the Cataphractii terminator arms, I would love to make some Fulmentarii for my Ultramarines..!

Yup, there is no way I am not adding all of those Mark III Marines to my old Iron Warriors army. It is also quite a good kit for beginners and those new to painting as the angular armour will take the good old wash and drybrush better than the more modern rounded marks of Marine armour.

I agree with Yodhrin as well, it is a slightly better deal than Calth as well. I just hope that the game is as good, there is no realistic reason why it will not be.

Thamor wrote:
So does it look like we can make MKIII Despoilers from these?

You can certainly do fluffy Despoiler squads.

"..trained in fire saturation and carrying additional close combat weaponry for use in overruning enemy positions - the so called Despoiler squads" ~ Betrayal page 70

If you prefer the marketing departments misappropriated use of the term then you're probably better off going with FW - from the sprue shots you only get one bolt pistol and one chainsword with a hand, and only one pair of suitable arms.

 Paradigm wrote:
(so MkIII for anything based on close assault, MkIV for the rest if they could get it),

MkIII is more of a standoff suit than a close assault suit - it's lack of agility and reduced rear armour would be a serious disadvantage in a swirling melee. Hence FW using MkIII for Breachers (whose standard weaponry is a bolter and pistol but have no option for a ccw) and refusing to do a MkIII jump pack squad (excluding Ashen Circle whose custom armour has few standard MkIII components).

I still think BaC is a better get started box.

I’m not a huge fan of allies. I know that’s a horribly dated concept, but I just love my Ultramarines. If I wanted to be playing with a different army, I would. With BaC I could use everything in the box. With BoP, I’m going down the contents, and there are “No” and “Maybe” for if I want/can use it.

Both HQs? Nope. Don’t play either of those armies. Sell/trade, or just keep for a painting project.
Custodes/SoS. Maybe. The models look awesome, and the rules I suspect are going to make them useful. But they are not part of the XIIIth.

Take those out and you are looking at 3 tac and a terminator squad for $150 USD. Which is still a discount, but not nearly as impressive.

It will be interesting to see how the value of the parts falls out. How many people are buying it just for the marine half? How many people want larger Custodes/SoS forces? Will the market be flooded with spare HQs? The fact that this box has specific HQs and is divided into two halves makes it less spammable then BaC.

I may just start a small Iron Warriors allied force with this set, just need to track down five missile launchers for the Havocs and get one of those FW Praetor packs with the MK III chap in it, he'll make, with some minor converting, for a most excellent Kyr Vhalen.

For me, I've made it pretty obvious I hate Space Wolves. I can make the marines a different unit, but I need to unload Sir Wolf Douche and replace him when playing the game with somebody else with the same weapon loadout. If I like the game, I'll keep the SOS and Custodes, otherwise I'll ebay them. But the number of loyalists will DEFINITELY join the ranks of my Imperial Fists.

I spotted a heavy bolter among the marines but not a second heavy weapon? Am I blind or just not spotting it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a side note, this will be an insta buy for me to boast my Death Guard forces been wanting plastic Mk3 marines for a while now

Welp ...

Seems like I'm doing a pre-betrayal Iron Warriors force. Or at least some of the few that refused to betray the Emperor. Iron Warriors are just so damn cool.

IRON WITHIN! IRON WITHOUT!

 Yodhrin wrote:
Not seeing how it's overcosted tbh...

You pay an extra 60 quid per box for no adequately explainable reason and then say it's not 'overcosted'.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Welp ...

Seems like I'm doing a pre-betrayal Iron Warriors force. Or at least some of the few that refused to betray the Emperor. Iron Warriors are just so damn cool.

IRON WITHIN! IRON WITHOUT!

Was just thinking the same thing, IW fit mk3 so perfectly imo.

 unmercifulconker wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Welp ...

Seems like I'm doing a pre-betrayal Iron Warriors force. Or at least some of the few that refused to betray the Emperor. Iron Warriors are just so damn cool.

IRON WITHIN! IRON WITHOUT!

Was just thinking the same thing, IW fit mk3 so perfectly imo.

Not the only ones! Was also my plan.

 Nevelon wrote:
I still think BaC is a better get started box.

I’m not a huge fan of allies. I know that’s a horribly dated concept, but I just love my Ultramarines. If I wanted to be playing with a different army, I would. With BaC I could use everything in the box. With BoP, I’m going down the contents, and there are “No” and “Maybe” for if I want/can use it.

Both HQs? Nope. Don’t play either of those armies. Sell/trade, or just keep for a painting project.
Custodes/SoS. Maybe. The models look awesome, and the rules I suspect are going to make them useful. But they are not part of the XIIIth.

Take those out and you are looking at 3 tac and a terminator squad for $150 USD. Which is still a discount, but not nearly as impressive.

It will be interesting to see how the value of the parts falls out. How many people are buying it just for the marine half? How many people want larger Custodes/SoS forces? Will the market be flooded with spare HQs? The fact that this box has specific HQs and is divided into two halves makes it less spammable then BaC.

You act like those Custodes and SoS have no value because you won't use them. Those will be in high demand and can be traded or sold for more of the standard units. Assume the Custodes or SoS are worth 5 terminators or 10 MK3 Marines for each. Then you're looking at something like 40 MK3 and 10 terminators for $150, plus the character models. Seems like a great deal to me. Barring trades you can expect to easily get $20-25 per squad of Custodes or SoS, so you're looking at $100-110 for the marines before online discount. Again, this seems like a pretty great deal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Not seeing how it's overcosted tbh...

You pay an extra 60 quid per box for no adequately explainable reason and then say it's not 'overcosted'.

I assumed the folks upstairs had already altered the Dakka forum software to auto-append "not for viewers in the Antipodes" to any forum post that included the words "GW" and "cost" in a positive context

So SOS will be my assassin replacement if I can load them in a transport that is. Picture them hopping out of a LR to take away super friends invisibility then rest of army shoots super friends away. And null aura says all psychic powers out right? so 6 in and all your fancy re rolls go bye bye. Am I correct on this?

 Starfarer wrote:
You act like those Custodes and SoS have no value because you won't use them. Those will be in high demand and can be traded or sold for more of the standard units. Assume the Custodes or SoS are worth 5 terminators or 10 MK3 Marines for each. Then you're looking at something like 40 MK3 and 10 terminators for $150, plus the character models. Seems like a great deal to me. Barring trades you can expect to easily get $20-25 per squad of Custodes or SoS, so you're looking at $100-110 for the marines before online discount. Again, this seems like a pretty great deal.

I try to evaluate boxes on their own merits. Once you start talking about trades/sales it’s a lot harder to judge things. Things like how big your local group is and who plays what can make dramatic differences in how easy it is to get rid of the stuff you don’t want. If you go online to sell/trade, you have to factor shipping costs, potential for things getting lost/scammed, etc. And if you have to jump through hoops to get your value out of a thing, you should consider the time and effort it takes to make it happen.

Value is also a very personal thing. One man’s garbage is another’s gold. I view this box primarily as a marine player. Any non-marine thing in there I’m going to value less. Not that the other stuff has zero value. I’d still enjoy painting them, and might work them into a list if the rules are decent and they fill a role I can’t do with my Ultras. But I’d rather have more marines.

Honestly, I’m still on the fence on keeping the extras. They are very sparkly. I suspect if I get a good offer from a local, I would probably part with them. If not, they will just get built and painted, and sit on the shelf most of the time.

The more I think about it, I might just get Betrayal at Calth instead of Burning of Prospero. I agree with Nevelon, BaC is a better starter overall. Too bad that BaC didn't have Tartaros Terminators (seriously Tartaros use Mk IV tech and are visually similar).

Aaaah...

I want the rules for the SoS already. Surely there's a leaker out there somewhere!

He must hate me. That MUST be it.

A supposed leak was posted earlier in the thread, here you go:

kenbian wrote:
Found this on B&C

From 4chan:
According to a mate, these are the profiles for custodes and sisters:

Custodes:
ws6, bs4, s5, t5, w2, i5, a3, ld10, 2+/4++.
hatred, furious charge, rampage.

Sisters:
ws5, bs4, s3, t3, w1, i5, a2, ld10, 2+.
Preferred enemy (psykers), hatred (psykers)
furious charge and a pariah blade which inflicts ID on any model with the psyker special rule and otherwise is ap3.
they will have the pariah rule meaning they can never be the target of any psychic power. and all psychic powers cease to be in effect within 6" of the unit

I don't believe that.

It would be amazing.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

It would be amazing.

It would, but points are a consideration. As someone math-hammered... the Custodes would run almost 120pts per model with those stats if they were given parity with similar models. I just can't see that happening.

Oh, and Sisters of Silence would be amazing in a Drop-Pod... shame thanks to the FAQ there is no way to do that any more unless they somehow have Pods as dedicated transports.

They are fluffy at the very least, Rampage on the Custodes in particular is fitting, as they are described as being solitary fighters taking on several opponents at once, as opposed to Astartes, who are team players.

Would this be a good way to start a Dark Angels Fallen army? I keep forgetting, what type of Mark armour did the Fallen have at the time?

Watching people actually wish list and get visions of sugar plums from a 4chan anonymous user's rumour deeply warms my cockles and shows how just desparate people are to believe anything.

 BloodGrin wrote:
Watching people actually wish list and get visions of sugar plums from a 4chan anonymous user's rumour deeply warms my cockles and shows how just desparate people are to believe anything.

I think the given stats aren't out of what I'd expect Custodes and Sisters to be, but I'm tossing in grains of salt because I'd expect Custodes to be, at the very least, Bulky.

Davor wrote:
Would this be a good way to start a Dark Angels Fallen army? I keep forgetting, what type of Mark armour did the Fallen have at the time?

The legions used all the different marks up to mk6 to varying degrees. It really comes down to your personal preference. If your not to fussed about mk3 or Tartaros armour I'd go for Calth as it has no legion or loyalist specific models.

You're just getting the Contemptor and losing 5 Custodians and 5 SoS tho, right? And Tartaros termies are waaay sweeter IMHO.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You're just getting the Contemptor and losing 5 Custodians and 5 SoS tho, right? And Tartaros termies are waaay sweeter IMHO.

But for non-SW or non-1KSons, you are also losing your two HQs, one of which is the ever-useful Cataphractii Captain. So there is more lost than just that. For me, since I want the SW Captain just to have, I am sure I will find him cheap online. Losing out on the Custodes will be kinda sad though.

Geigor Fellhand video:

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/268848613510124/