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 Backspacehacker wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Imperial Guard. The entire Codex.

Wouldn't that end up getting fixed if they made vehicles not gak?

Nah..... they also have a problem that they pay SM prices for infantry heavy weapons.... that miss more often and die too easily. I understand why they made HW teams a 2W model (originally they were two separate models), but it actually makes them worse rather than better. Also footslogging guard isn't really much of an option these days plus most of their specialist infantry units (ratlings, scions, orgryns etc) might as well be left at home. Another issue also being their basic weapons haven't kept up with the meta at all. Guard are effectively almost identical to what they were like in 3rd with a couple of flyers, wyverns and orders added.

I would say Nid's, Ork, CSM and Guard all need help. Nid's need a complete rework, Guard have great internal balance but have extreme external balance issues, Orks need tweeks to stats, points etc, with CSM being in the worst spot. I wouldn't say they need a complete rework nid style, but need a combination of what Nids, Orks and Guard all need.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Imperial Guard. The entire Codex.

Wouldn't that end up getting fixed if they made vehicles not gak?

That'd be a good start. But it's not like footguard is particularly good - many of the infantry choices are stupendously bad.

Vehicles and burnaboys.

I'd disagree a bit with the OP's wording a little bit.

I don't believe things need to be buffed, I think things across the board need to be reeled in. The power creep/arms race seems to be completely out of control. Stuff in general is far too powerful/strong/tough and this exacerbates the low standing in which we find basic troop choices (something which should never happen in a game).

While not very impressive things like a normal squad of Imperial Guard should never be completely useless in a game of 40K. A Space Marine tactical squad should be a feasible unit. Game design should address things like this. The idea of a "tax unit" is a bit silly.

Tac marines have been garbage for a long time.

 Elbows wrote:
Stuff in general is far too powerful/strong/tough and this exacerbates the low standing in which we find basic troop choices (something which should never happen in a game).

While not very impressive things like a normal squad of Imperial Guard should never be completely useless in a game of 40K. A Space Marine tactical squad should be a feasible unit. Game design should address things like this. The idea of a "tax unit" is a bit silly.

Basic troops should be cheap, proportional to their usefulness. IG are overpriced for how under-useful they are in the current environment.

A SM Tactical squad is very feasible, when given a FREE scoring Transport.

That said, it's not a huge deal. It's not like I'm going to sell my army because it's not awesomeness.

Posessed marines. I don't ever think I have seen them used.

Actually, I'll amend my earlier comment to Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines in general. You know, the core of those codices. Not heldrakes, spawn or winged mace DPs. Not gravcenturions, thunderwolf cavalry or drop pods. But the defining images of those codices. Tactical Marines. Chosen. Assault Marines. Chaos/Terminators. Chaos/Land Raiders. Predators.

It's a shame that they make the gimmicky stuff OP and the thematic core of the armies so bad it has to be made free through a really broken formation in order to see play.

Tactical marines with boltguns.

What about Rhinos? Humble, basic Rhinos?

Most of the Dark Eldar Codex is gak awful.

Archons, Raiders, Wyches, Bloodbrides, Mandrakes, Voidravens, Warriors, Talos, Incubi, Hellions, Ravagers, Beastpacks are all pretty bad.

Grotesques, Haemoculi, Wracks, and Venoms are ok

Razorwings, Reavers, and Scourges are about the only good things in the codex.

I want the vehicle to be reworked, too. To slow, die easily, can't shoot enough...
And yeah, terminators also.

Terminators and land raiders need buffs
The tyranids need buffs
Invisibility needs to go up in warp charge cost.
Keep tactical objectives as an option, remove stupid ones like destroy a fortification and cast a psychic power.

On a side note is this just a wish list or are there actually rumors of 8th ed soon?


As much as I hated it at first I like the idea of unbound now, it allows for much more thematic game, though there are always the people who exploit it.

Pretty much the entire Ork Codex.

At the moment there isn't a single unit in the Codex that I would say is good or where it needs to be to be competitive.

A couple easy things would fix alot of these problems though.

Nerf the top 4 in a reasonable way. buff the rest. and close the gap between vehicles and monsters

 _ghost_ wrote:
Nerf the top 4 in a reasonable way. buff the rest. and close the gap between vehicles and monsters

Seconded.

my defilers.. they got me into 40k. they are so cool i bought two. painted them all nice very proud of them. now i cannot bear to run them. Also khorne berzerkers need a comeback. Need to be able to assault out of a rhino again. I want to blow up tanks with my defilers and assault the juicy insides with berzerkers.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Nerf the top 4 in a reasonable way. buff the rest. and close the gap between vehicles and monsters

Seconded.

Which top 4? Eldar, space marines, daemons and dark angels? They placed best ITC?

How about the Eldar, space marines, Tau, crons, top four who are the bane of casual play?

What about Knights, space puppers, and ad mec/skittles?

The problem here is that we've two types of codexes. Ones that are cheese and ones who aren't. I'd much rather see guard and nids and the others brought up than the top guys knocked down a peg, especially when nobody seems to be able to agree which ones are the best. That being said, can we agree to nerf riptides and wraith knights and do something about bark stars and super friends?

 Jaxler wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 _ghost_ wrote:
Nerf the top 4 in a reasonable way. buff the rest. and close the gap between vehicles and monsters

Seconded.

Which top 4? Eldar, space marines, daemons and dark angels? They placed best ITC?

How about the Eldar, space marines, Tau, crons, top four who are the bane of casual play?

What about Knights, space puppers, and ad mec/skittles?

The problem here is that we've two types of codexes. Ones that are cheese and ones who aren't. I'd much rather see guard and nids and the others brought up than the top guys knocked down a peg, especially when nobody seems to be able to agree which ones are the best.

The only reason people poke at dark angels is because of raven wing death start which, get in melee or an ignore cover and they are toast.

And lions blade which lets you kit a bit more on the squads since you can take a scout squad as a aux vs the gladiolus.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Imperial Guard. The entire Codex.

Wouldn't that end up getting fixed if they made vehicles not gak?

That'd be a good start. But it's not like footguard is particularly good - many of the infantry choices are stupendously bad.

^This. Fixing vehicle rules will benefit the IG codex, but it has a plethora of other issues. Most of the codex needs a significant points reduction. Foot guard largely serve only as a tax on the army, instead of the meat shield/expendable resource they are supposed to be. Most of the elite choices are way overpriced or do not fulfill the roles they are intended to. Orders need a massive buff in utility/function (like give outflank, twin link, be able to issue orders to vehicles as non tank commander etc) and when used with vox caster need to have infinite range. Either special weapons given to infantry need to be reduced in cost to reflect the guard statline (we currently pay SM prices) or IG infantry need be reduced in cost further. All of this is just the tip of the iceberg of issues plaguing IG codex.

Several codexes would be improved with some points adjustments and those that lack formations gaining them (and not that stupid AM formation in Montka where you need a million models).

Random charge ranges. I'd like there to be a minimum distance maybe 6" +d3?

That a agree with there needs to be a closing of the gap between MC and vehicles. If not I'd like to see ordnance do d3 Wounds or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Random charge ranges. I'd like there to be a minimum distance maybe 6" +d3?

That a agree with there needs to be a closing of the gap between MC and vehicles. If not I'd like to see ordnance do d3 Wounds or something.

The basic infantry for every faction. I want to see and use armies where the bulk of models are your most basic troop unit; chaos marines, space marines, guard platoons, termagants, ork boyz, eldar guardians etc. I can think of a couple of simple ways to achieve this. Either make core infantry choices disproportionately cheap (10 point tac marines, possibly even cheaper than that), or have a few pure troop formations for every faction, like four units of (insert unit) with really good buffs that aren't even attempting to balance themselves against other formations. I want really strong incentives to field troops, not just ObSec.

I'd also like to see gargantuans/superheavies paying a premium to be fielded. Go the other way with these units and make them prohibitively expensive for competitive games but still kind of okay for casual environments. They'll still sell, and probably cause carnage in a troop heavy meta, but you just won't win the mission against a halfway savvy opponent who can field five fully upgraded tac squads for the price of your knight.

I’d like to see some of the classic things boosted a bit from SM. They have been left in the dust as the new, shiny stuff gets put out.

Plasma pistols, stormbolters, heavy bolters, MLs. Iconic weapons, and massively overpriced for lackluster performance.

I think some core rules changes to balance vehicles out a bit would be enough to make dreads and most of the tanks a bit more viable. The LR might take a little more work.

Jump packs need a boost to make them compare better to bikes. Both should be viable options. Or bikes could take a slight nerf; they are very good these days.

Terminators need something.

If they are going to keep the armory page system of upgrades, rather then squad-by-squad, I’d like to see them return to duel pricing for upgrades, with one price for single wound models, and the other for multiple wound guys. The Chapter Master is going to get a lot more use out of that powerfist then a sarge. Vanguard Vets would be a good place to start for price changes for the ordinary guys. But I preferred the squad level upgrade pricing. Tac squads should not be paying the same premium for heavies as dev squads. I’d say go back to the 5th edition setup/pricing, but devs were massively overcharged back then.

Eldar are very solid these days. The codex is actually fairly well balanced, with the exception of a few very broken things. Rangers and Banshees could use a slight boost, and the broken stuff a solid nerf, and then they’d be all sorted.

Hellions and wyches.

Zerkers...,that they become once again the Killers they where before.

1A base is just ridiculous, having to pay for an AP4 weapon is dumb, i'd pay for AP3's, AP4's i don't give a damn, or if the axes would give Rending, that'll be another story.

Also a rule ala Eldars battle rites or what is it, move+run+assault.

Everything that is currently never taken. If there is a model for it I want to be able to use it

Hmm...

Broadly speaking, vehicles need buffs in both their resilience and in their ability to move and fire. Either they need saves, more hull points, or more forgiving damage tables. Having a glancing hits table that only causes hull point loss on a result of a 6, say, with Stunned as a 5, Shaken as a 3-4, and Single Weapon Shaken on a 1-2.

Dreadnoughts in particular need buffs. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to eliminate the Walker category entirely, and just make them Monstrous Creatures. Failing that, they need a save.

I'd like to see non-Skyfire weapons shooting at flyers changed from snap shooting to the flyers getting an automatic 2+ save. The current system penalizes high ballistic skill/low model count armies much more than low ballistic skill/high model count armies.

Squads should have some ability to split fire. It's completely stupid that I could have up to 9 Space Marines with bolters doing absolutely nothing if I want 1 Space Marine with a lascannon to shoot at a tank. Same applies across the board.

For my Dark Angels, I'd like to see Terminators get buffed to the point where I don't feel like I'm taking a handicap by using them. I'd argue getting 2 wounds is the buff they need the most, but they ould also use a buff to shooting damage output.

Sammael, Belial, and Azrael are all overpriced. They were appropriately priced when they unlocked FOC-swaps, but they don't anymore and stayed the same price. Sammael needs a 2+ save and +1 strength to the Raven Sword. Azrael needs Eternal Warrior, and AP2 on the Sword of Secrets would be good. Belial just needs to be cheaper.

I'd like to see the Lion's Blade (and by extension, they Gladius Strike Force) toned down a little. Specifically, instead of getting free transports for taking 2 minimum demi-companies, I'd like the free transports to be unlocked for taking full-strength squads in 1 demi-company. Free jump packs for the Assault Squad should be an option too - it's more fluffy. Maybe free Veteran Sergeant upgrades too. I'd like to give sergeants interesting upgrades, but it's such a huge points-sink that all I generally do is equip sergeants with combi-weapons.

I'd also like the Lion's Blade to provide a broader range of Auxiliary choices. It's great I can get away with a singe Scout Squad, but I can't just take, say, a single Predator to support my demi-company. I'd like some Company Support options that let me take a single tank or plane, instead of having to take whole squadrons.

Vehicles are in an odd spot tbh. I think we can all agree they need help, but we also have issues such as the traditional AT weapons (aka lascannon etc) are no longer reliable at knocking out vehicles. Krak missiles for example are even worse seeing they're only AP3!

Glances need to be made weaker. I'm not sure I totally agree with GMR when he says stop it's ability to strip hull points unless they roll a 6. Glances should totally stun and shaken results, but massed fire needs to be capable of destroying lighter vehicles. However one of the main issues facing vehicles is how CC affects them, hit's to rear armour should not be automatic and everyone has thought this for a long time now.

Lots of things... off the top of my head:

- Ork morale feels too punishing these days, in a game where assault armies already have an up-hill climb.

- Anything in power armor or intended to be an assault unit in the Chaos codex needs buffing or point dropping.

- The Heavy Bolter needs a fundamental change to give it a place in a game where superior options exist every where

- Be as generous with "bad guy" armies as they are with "good guy" armies, covers a lot of it.