Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The DftS made it so that you hit Jetbikes at normal BS right?

Its still a 2 shot lascannon, not sure if its worth it. Cursed earth gives them 3++(2++ for Magnus) re-roll 1s and honestly I don't think its enough to take down Magnus, maybe a DP.

It's 3-shot strength D. You're probably talking about the Sentry Pylon, while I think everyone else should be talking about the Gauss Pylon.

Or probably not. Two str9 shots wouldn't justify the Gauss Sentry Pylon, I believe.

The Gauss Pylon would be too expensive I'd imagine. I don't even remember the points for it though so...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Gauss Pylon would be too expensive I'd imagine. I don't even remember the points for it though so...

Oh that thing... its 420 pts and is a immobile artillery. Even though it has 120" range it still needs LOS, and deep striking it could suck if you don't have comm relay. Not sure how one can be build a list around it, its just not point efficient and can get tar pitted easily.

It is a Vehicle, so never gets tar pitted. It is also a super-heavy so immune to 'most' of the vehicle damage chart.

Don't forget the 5++ 12" bubble around it for "all Necron units" which would also include other Necron Vehicles.

Zahndrekh has access to reserve manipulation as well, if one does not want to use a comms relay. For what it's even allowed to shoot at, I doubt that they will be able to reliably break LOS. The Gauss Pylon is pretty big, and flyers/FMCs that start on the board would have to deploy out of sight in order to avoid getting blown up.

If DftS allows it to fire at jetbikes with full efficiency that's pretty cool, but those would have a much easier time hiding from it. You'd have to be using DftS, too, which won't really be mandatory until it gets rolled into the BRB next edition.

Its flux arc isn't terrible but it's short range, and I don't know how easy it would be to tarpit as its AoE invuln save encourages the Necron player to keep other units close by. Triarch Stalkers would enjoy that invuln though; 5++ is better than the nothing they get otherwise!

For everything else, the Gauss Pylon costs a lot for a SHV that can't fire on whatever it wants, and I think that will unfortunately hold it back until either IA12 v2 or 8th edition change how its rules work.

Alright, so how about fortification options, then?
Guns with Skyfire?
Or do we just get Void Shields for our Stalkers and Heavy Destroyers and hope for the best?

I think the tomb is still really solid from FW, never even heard of a game where it was used but its stats are fantastic for what you get imo.

Oberron wrote:
I think the tomb is still really solid from FW, never even heard of a game where it was used but its stats are fantastic for what you get imo.

It's a Realm of Battle board, isn't it?

Drakmord wrote:

Oberron wrote:
I think the tomb is still really solid from FW, never even heard of a game where it was used but its stats are fantastic for what you get imo.

It's a Realm of Battle board, isn't it?

As far as I can tell yes.

The Necron Tomb Citadel
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/Realm-of-Battle-Necron-Tomb-Citadel?_requestid=16912349

Naked, the thing costs as much as an Obelisk, then you gotta start paying for upgrades.

See following thread for details-
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/540853.page

In my opinion, not worth it. Not without an update, anyway (and we all know how likely that will be).

I don't think we should go for Anti-Air. That's just not something we do well. It seems impossible for any kind of shooting to take down Magnus, let alone shooting that's available to Necrons. Tesla was just nerfed too much. ( :( )

Instead focus on playing the objectives as much as possible. Blink for objectives, get some more boots on the ground, possibly. I'd guess Ghost Arks become more valuable as they are harder to kill by demons, I think. D shots would be required and our godly vehicles can jink that.

In this new meta of Cabalstar, Magnus, flying demons, Fateweaver etc. I think Decurion is no longer competitive. The lists I've been tinkering with for the past month or so have been mostly double CAD.
Double CAD is like a single CAD, exept 2 HQs and 4 Troops are required. The whole reason I went CAD was because of the Troops, so I don't see 4 Troops as a tax and the 2 HQ's are the whole reason I went for 2 CADs instead of one. ( I need 3 or 4 HQ's) So, I'm going for tax-free, ObSec troops and I'm only losing 4+ RP, which is not something I care about, because I'm neither fielding a Destroyer Cult or a Judicator Battalion and therefore, there's no elite troops losing their survivability. To further boost that, my troops will be mostly riding vehicles or benefit from 4+ RP from Crypteks.

Things I really like in CADcrons and, therefore, Double-CADcrons:

-Ghost Arks
-Wraiths
-Destroyer Lord Wraithstar
-Lychstar with Orikan
-Nightscythes with either MSU ObSec troops or tactical precision removal like Prets.
-Warrior blobs with Crypteks(like Szeras), even better when supported by Ghost Arks

Things I kinda like in CADcrons and, therefore, Double-CADcrons:
-All vehicles. (over infantry) This is the list to go vehicle heavy and upset some lists not ready to deal with 10+ AV13 vehicles.
-Tomb Blades
-Deathmarks
-Possibly some fortification, although I haven't really looked at any, never really bothered with it.

Without further ado, here's a list as an example. It's a Lychstar, again, as I really like the models and put a lot of work painting them, but I don't think it's the most competitive:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/715937.page#9168068



EDIT: That would be an example of an adjusted Silver tide: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/715939.page#9168122

No formations you'd want to add to the above lists?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Since the 5th ed codex.
T5 2W units with S6 Rending and 3+ invuls are really good.

Indeed, one of the best units in the game.
As we know, with a decurion the unit is even better.
I'm surprised to see that some here seem to prefer Lynchguard.

That's because Lychguard are still good.

I think that the difference is the s6 rending for 43 points (who are we kidding about whipcoils), verses s7 AP2 with armorbane for 25 points. There are other obvious differences that I don't need to get into, but the Lychguard with Warscythes just kill the things that Necrons go up against (Knights and 2+ Deathstars). Wraiths are reliant on rolling 6's to do damage in a lot of cases. Lychguard just need to not roll 1's.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I think that the difference is the s6 rending for 43 points (who are we kidding about whipcoils), verses s7 AP2 with armorbane for 25 points. There are other obvious differences that I don't need to get into, but the Lychguard with Warscythes just kill the things that Necrons go up against (Knights and 2+ Deathstars). Wraiths are reliant on rolling 6's to do damage in a lot of cases. Lychguard just need to not roll 1's.

Why would a Wraithknight or a 2+ Deathstar let the Lychguard catch it if it couldn't handle them?

The whole reason Wraiths are far superior to Lychguards is mobility.

Mobility is the most important trait for an assault unit to have.

Lychguard and Wraiths are different units, with different capabilities and roles. Especially so, the Warscythe ones. The Lychguard are a slow unit, that's very hard to make use of. Getting the Warscythe Lychguard to assault something that's actually scary means that 1) they won't die in shooting, even though they lack invulnerable saves. 2) they will somehow manage to assault that "scary something", even though they have a 6" movement. "Scary something" will have to stay still and not avoid them.
Honestly, those are pretty hard to pull off.Maybe if they could get Ghost Arks?

The sword and board lychguard are quite similar to the Wraiths, as to the "they are really tough, they carry HQ's that kill and they have a realistic plan to assault through Wraiths' speed and Lychguard Veil of Darkness". However, they still differ a lot.

The Wraithstar is a fast unit you can either break to tarpit with wraiths and assault another target with the Destroyer Lord after he's delivered and you mostly get to chose your assaults thanks to being really fast and ignoring terrain. You can chase what you want, put pressure on flanks etc.

The Lychstar is a unit that is way less efficient point for point compared to what it's going to do on the tabletop. They get their efficiency in presence. It has to start from a really aggressive deployment, where you threaten either the center of the board or a certain flank/objective. This deployment will lead to a certain answer from your opponent most probably. After that, you get to either 1) Move/Run first turn to keep that push there or 2) Veil turn one if there's a threat you're wanting to neutralise. That pesky stormsurge, that Grav heavy unit. You Deepstrike turn one close to a threat you're wanting to neutralise and you force it to move or get assaulted. Forcing that movement is quite valuable on its own, even though you might not get the assault on it. People don't really like shooting the Lychstar unit due to it being relatively easy to avoid, but deploying it, redeploying it and piloting it as much as possible to block certain terrain pieces/table quarters/flanks is actually just as usefull. Put the Lychguard in front of your opponent's mechline and watch it either take a very different route/have to make a circle arround a building/losing the Maelstrom objectives or be forced to deal with it. If they get in assault, they're not usually getting tarpitted. A voidreaper, a warscythe minimum and Orikan's staff + the Ap3 swords should make sure you kill what people think they can tarpit you with. Also, deploying very aggressive and chosing to move/run first turn and keeping your Veil if you know you're getting tarpitted is quite a good idea. They're like a piece of terrain with a large footprint that you get to move arround the table. Some games, I'll admit they won't force much or will feel really useless. The Wraiths don't really have that, they do something almost every game, reliably.If lychguard had some shooting, even minimal, even Gauss Flayers, this would be a totally different story.

Here I'd like to give a tip about Lychguard. Deepstrike them on key points of terrain usage/road blocking if possible. Run the same turn they deepstrike to shift them from a circle formation to a line formation so you can take up as much space between two places and block the passage, for max efficiency. At the very least they'll draw fire. If they draw fire, they're becoming efficient, since the points you paid for them are way less than the points of fire they can take. Basicly, draw as much fire as possible by moving them smart. Getting an assault or two is a nice bonus.

EDIT: Sometimes, the fact that opponents are so keen to ignore them will work for you perfectly as they can take up strategic spots and claim objectives for free. Obviously, there's no such thing as "don't shoot that unit no matter what". Sometimes, it's the only answer.

Allying in Ork Traktor Kannon Gunz are probably our best answer to Fliers.

- ITC related post -

So, seeing as I've made more than 60 lists this past few months and not being satisfied with any of it, I've come to the conclusion there's absolutely no top list in the current meta Necrons can win against.

All top lists are not invincible in any way. One can beat the other and that's the whole point. There's good and bad match ups. One has to rely on getting matched as much as possible (luck factor) in a tournament with his good matchups and minimise points loss in bad matchups.

In that mind, I've tried making lists that are hard counters to certain meta-lists, but it's impossible in the Necron Codex. We just lack the shooting/force. We can't shoot Flying Demons and we can't outscore them on the board, as we have no anti-psychic and we're not fast or ObSec.

We can't shoot the abundant ammounts of things Gladius/Lion's Blade brings on the table and, obviously, can't outscore the 22+ ObSec units he brings on the table.

We can't obviously outshoot the eldar or taudar or even TAU. Problem is, they have enough shooting to take out anything that's dangerous, like Destroyers or Wraiths and we don't have something to fight back with.

Basicly, we don't have enough Anti-tank to be able to just upset tank-heavy matchups like Knights. We don't have enough anti-infantry to upset infantry heavy matchups. We don't have anti-air to deal with anything flying. We don't have anti-psychic to deal with anything casting spells (summoning etc). We don't have enough assault (or even if we have assault, we don't have good enough means to make it survive enemy shooting good enough and make it to assault). We can't create good enough ObSec lists (no matter how hard you try, Gladius is still better at it) We're mediocre at best on every possible level. That's good for TAC, FLGS level play, especially for beginners, it's a great starting army. There's no real strength and no real weakness.

But, looking at the last few ITC tournaments, most include either 0 or 1-2 necrons players in a total of 80+ players. We're the rarest army, even more so than BA/Sisters/DE etc, and we don't do well. (generally, not getting placed under top 15) The few Necron players that have done well, including that very rare Fennel success have been with a Pylonstar. The Pylonstar is exactly what I've been saying.It has strengths and weaknesses. If placed with more good matchups that bad, it can do well in a tournament setting. But, I remember reading somewhere that Fennel, after his success said it's hardcountered by anything Flying-demon related and an auto-loss. That paired with the fact that flying demons is statistically the most played army of the last tournaments makes the Pylonstar less and less attractive.

So, with that in mind, and because I've made, honestly, far too many lists in this month that have left me unsatisfied, I want to hear your success stories. What's your list, champion? What makes it strong? What matchups do you like the most and what tactics do you like to use versus said winning matchups?

LVO is going to take place this weekend, so we're going to see how Necrons do over there, but before that, I'd like to hear your success stories, guys!

The ITC format is made to mess with all lists. Having the Kill point mission in round 4 makes sure that Battle Company and other MSU players face opponents who are good enough to eliminate them in their weakest mission... etc. Other lists will have similar problems with specific lists on specific missions. You cannot avoid this. You have to be the better player to win through those tough matches.
The top 8 at the LVO will be awesome players... not their lists. That means that you will have better luck playing what you know the best.

Often times the player who wins the LVO isn't the player running the "best list", but rather the strongest list that isn't hated on as the "best list".

The Necron lists winning big ITC events are Pylonstar, and that's only because nobody is really building around it. FMC Daemonspam might coincidentally counter it, but it's also built to counter darn near everything else. Maybe we'll see a Wraithstar or some other spoiler list in the top 8, but honestly Pylons are probably going to be the only Necrons there imho.

I'd love to be surprised and see a really solid atypical list win, granted.

My prediction would be no Necrons in top 8, at all. But, this conversation kind of got side-tracked! I want to hear about your lists and success stories! Bump!

I have never been able to bring myself to actually field the Judicator Battalion in a game. the 405 point price of entry just seems so steep for 11 models glass models. In my meta (weekly meet up is: Tau, Tau, Eldar, Guard and Orks) the three times i have ever tried the lone Stalker its died horribly turn one. I recently was able to pick up two Lychguard boxes on the cheap, with the intent of (with addition of existing sword and shield models) ending up with 7 models of each load out to have options. After reading how highly the prets are rated in this thread how ever im debating giving the formation a chance. I run a full cult in most games i play so i have never felt i lacked str5 attacks, but i suppose the real draw here is the ap 2.

Praetorians are Fearless so they can help tie up Wraithknights for a turn if that's truly an issue. They're surprisingly one of our better MC counters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Praetorians are Fearless so they can help tie up Wraithknights for a turn if that's truly an issue. They're surprisingly one of our better MC counters.

In what world do Praetorians tie up Wraithknights? WKs double them out so weaker RP, they have no Invuln, and they're worse at eating Stomps than Wraiths, and they do less or the same amount of damage. Their only upside to Wraiths when fighting WKs is that they can do damage from a range (unless the Wraiths take the overpriced TBeamers).

It would take a full game turn for the Wraithknight to remove them, because they don't get swept after the first round. Unless the Wraithknight rolls insanely well, it is stopped for two Assault phases.

 necr0n wrote:
I want to hear about your lists and success stories! Bump!

Running a Planetary Onslaught campaign. I'm on the defenders side. Deathmarks are pretty damned useful here.

Tau player has the WL trait that lets him not scatter for DS. Turn 1, they go first, and he foolishly brings that squad in near his table edge. Deathmarks pop JUST enough to force a morale check -- He fails, and a LOT of his dakka flies off the board T1 before his shooting phase.

I also have a lot of new respect for Night Shroud Bombers. Fielded them for the first time (Just used my scythes as counts as). The ability to bomb something with interceptor before it can attack you is nice.

Since Interceptor and Blind and Pinning all occur at the 'end of the movement phase', and it's MY movement phase, I can pick the order, right? So a NSB should be able to blind and/or pin something before it can fire Interceptor weapons?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Praetorians are Fearless so they can help tie up Wraithknights for a turn if that's truly an issue. They're surprisingly one of our better MC counters.

Getting a 140 point unit murdered by a 300 point unit in a single turn is not exactly my idea of effectiveness. It's not tying it up, if it's 1 round. They're one of the usefull units you don't care about dying. I'd rather tie him up with scarabs, or even warriors.(obviously Wraiths)

I've been wondering for a while. Everybody seems to think that Riptide Wing is possibly one of the best formations in the game. TAU are almost the only Convinient Ally we have. Most people predict "Random Army + Riptide wing" is going to reach top tables at LVO. I've seen EVERY list in the world, even space wolves allied with the Riptide Wing. How come we don't use Riptide wings? They're just as survivable as we are, so it's good saturation and it's not like they're imbalancing the Threat aggro, due to their toughness being equal to that of Necrons. They bring shooting that we really lack. So, anybody tried doing Necrons + Riptide Wing? I know I would have done it, but I can't find myself 3 Riptides and I don't want to invest in Riptides without actually having TAU to make a legit army. Any experience regarding this?

 Plainshow wrote:
It would take a full game turn for the Wraithknight to remove them, because they don't get swept after the first round. Unless the Wraithknight rolls insanely well, it is stopped for two Assault phases.

Depends on how big the unit is. A 5 man unit does nothing. A 10 man unit might tie it up for longer (depending on Stomps, because always depending on Stomps), but that's an expensive unit.

Still, I've not tried 10 man Praet units. If the Judicator Battalion wasn't such a big buy in it might be more manageable, but you're paying 405 for minimum units on top of Decurion, 545 for a 10 man, 685 for two ten mans.

Eh, I feel split on it. That big unit will be very durable against a lot of things, but will just be dead against Tau and you're only bringing it as a speedbump for WKs, and they'll just get worn down against Scatbikes before they get in any sort of range. Not even gonna mention D-guns.

Against Deathstars (aka 50% of the meta), they're basically just nothing unless you just play keep away with them all game. Against GSC (the current spoiler/anti-meta army), they're... ok. Most of them go super MSU or have one big blob unit, neither of which an expensive 10 man unit is particularly good against.

Would be nice if you could give them a IC to keep up with, but the DLord is about your only choice. He's ok, but slowing down takes away their big mobility strength and fitting in a 10 man unit and a DLord in a Decurion is really, really tight.

Maybe I'll fiddle with the list a bit. Seems neat but I think a hard fit for the current meta. Would be super good against Battle Company - except for the Grav portions.