Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**torblind**

For similar rules, partial is enough. I'm sure it is here too.

**Lothmar**

Which is better to combine with Gauss pylons invul field for taking down an armor block or a big wound point model? 9x Canoptek Arcanthrites or 3x Heat cannon Sentry pylons? (Naturally this will be paired with at least one Tri stalker for the reroll of 1's since these are such high value damage shots)

Just model to model they're same cost but dependent on the deployment zone etc they'll probably need the Deciever to get into position and if you dont have the iniative that's one turn where they are vulnerable, compared to the sentries who can teleport in with the GP and remain safe even if you dont have initiative.

The sentries lack mobility but they've got decent enough reach, especially if you place aggressively and keep them relatively bottled in your 18" range of Death unless they want to waste the movement peeling off and around or trying to go past. But on a particularly big battlefield they start to become less relevant as the game goes on, especially after you wipe up the priority target zone you deployed them again... At best they've got twice the shots of the arcanthrites but at worse they've got a third so on average they'll have the same amount of shots though losing models with SP will effect your number of shots more however...

The Arcanthrites while lacking weapon range have amazing speed, are flyers so they can disengage from melees and still shoot, have decent melee weapons so can blitz into melee after shooting and then dip out next turn to shoot again etc (if its not suicide to assault the thing). Having assault weapons instead of heavy so no penalty for shooting after moving unless you're advancing of course for max movement. Slightly more wounds as a group then the Pylons, 3 wounds per model so while ok against single wound stuff the high damage stuff against them at least only kills 1 model at a time... Losing models is less costly to shooting damage output since each is only one shot. Most likely after the first or second turn they'll have to leave the relative safety of the Gauss pylons invul but at least they've got the -1 to hit them bonus to fall back on..

**Dew**

Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Good job against AdMech, they seem nasty with the codex. What else did you have in the list except Wraiths and Praetorians?

Yeah I'd like to know more too. I have 10 caster and blade Praets burning a hole in my pocket, I just can't find a place to put their expensive ass. How did you incorporate them?

**Lothmar**

I assume Toholks 'Eternal engines' ability does not work if you are holding him in reserves to bring in either via monolith/invasion beam correct?

Cause it occurs at the start of the first battle round and the vehicle has to be within 6" of him.

**torblind**

Lothmar wrote:
I assume Toholks 'Eternal engines' ability does not work if you are holding him in reserves to bring in either via monolith/invasion beam correct?

Cause it occurs at the start of the first battle round and the vehicle has to be within 6" of him.

Correct

**Lothmar**

Yep, unfortunately being on a tomb world puts him out of reach of the stuff that is in orbit of another planet. *chuckle*

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wish Crons had some kind of vehicle leader, other then the CCB since that buffs infantry and it always feels weird for me to build an armor build but then suddenly be missing almost 600 points out of it. Usually because I field toholk and fielding him feels kind of bad without fielding infantry and if you're going warriors and cryptek you might as well double down with a ghost ark for maximum annoyance on the RP.

Or that 'Destroyer' was a wargear option for Crypteks, Lords and orverlords. That way you could make leadership destroyers as needed and you wouldn't need 2 more leadership entries. Ex: A destroyer overlord with MWBD for the Destroyer wing or a Cryptek destroyer (destroy tec *chuckle*) so that the destroyers dont have to slowly move in order to stay in the invul and reanimation field.

I like seeing leadership models that use wraith stuff too, man I wish there was a 'Wraith lord' *chuckle*. Or like an 'Alpha Wraith' (mwbd limited to beasts). But if that happened I'd also want a Scarab queen - Heck just make it a tomb spyder, or give the spyders gear that gains +1 inch movement for every Scarab within X inches or something cause they carry them along. *chuckle* Their movement differences are the main reason I dont try to run a build at least once that is primarily Scarabs with many squads of spyders so that you can keep refreshing the scarabs up to full so long as the spyders aren't killed or the scarabs aren't wiped (cause I dont want to make longer and longer daisy chains every turn).

**BillyN831**

I had a minor defeat today versus an all Chaos Space Marines bike army. What's good versus them? Scarab screen with immortals strength 5 ap -2? Thanks.

**skoffs**

Immortals aren't going to be able to catch up to them to get into rapid fire range. Gauss Tomb Blades would probably be better.
Problem is, their bikes are way cheaper than ours, so you'll never have enough to handle the numbers they will have.
Can possibly mitigate that with Scarabs. Tie them up while the TBs whittle down the unengaged ones, then mop up afterwards.

**D6Damager**

BillyN831 wrote:
I had a minor defeat today versus an all Chaos Space Marines bike army. What's good versus them? Scarab screen with immortals strength 5 ap -2? Thanks.

Tie them up with Wraiths then finish them off with a Destroyer Lord w/warscythe & phylactery or Praetorians (or both).

**torblind**

Wouldnt the chaos bikes be coming to you? they probably want to get in pistol range or cc range, I don't know what they are armed with

**Odrankt**

BillyN831 wrote:
I had a minor defeat today versus an all Chaos Space Marines bike army. What's good versus them? Scarab screen with immortals strength 5 ap -2? Thanks.

I think a Triarch Stalker w/ Particle Shredder, MWBD Tesla Immortals, Gauss Tomb Blades and a unit of 5 Wraiths would be good. Could also use Scarabs to deny them Charging your important units.

**Slayer-Fan123**

torblind wrote:
Wouldnt the chaos bikes be coming to you? they probably want to get in pistol range or cc range, I don't know what they are armed with

Pretty sure the codex says they still got their CCW and Pistol, so fully expect them to come after you.

Also Legion trait is gonna be important here. Best Legions here would be Renegades (Advance + Charge), World Eaters (a delicious +1 attack from charging) and Iron Warriors (instead using them as a partial range unit and getting the most of Special Weapon saturation with Ignores Cover and THEN possibly charging a target). No matter the Legion, expect them to charge Necrons. They ain't so durable right now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

skoffs wrote:
Immortals aren't going to be able to catch up to them to get into rapid fire range. Gauss Tomb Blades would probably be better.
Problem is, their bikes are way cheaper than ours, so you'll never have enough to handle the numbers they will have.
Can possibly mitigate that with Scarabs. Tie them up while the TBs whittle down the unengaged ones, then mop up afterwards.

Bikers went down for both the cowardly traitors and loyalist scum, so I expect a price drop on Bikes everywhere. This includes us, of course.

**skoffs**

Bikes may eventually go down in price for us, but that doesn't help things for the time being.

**Slayer-Fan123**

skoffs wrote:
Bikes may eventually go down in price for us, but that doesn't help things for the time being.

I fully know that. Just wanted to paint a brighter future for one of the grimmest threads in the entire forum at this point. I mean, the army isn't unplayable, but I do way too much to make it work, and thats from someone that's proxied Dark Eldar before out of boredom.

**TheWaspinator**

Several codexes have gotten new HQ options to kitbash out of current kits, so I'm cautiously optimistic for a vehicle-friendly generic HQ of some sort whenever the codex hits.

**iGuy91**

Cmdr_Sune wrote:
Good job against AdMech, they seem nasty with the codex. What else did you have in the list except Wraiths and Praetorians?

We both knew which armies were coming to the table (Necrons vs AdMech) but we rolled mission and deployment together.
I got most of my advantage during deployment. It would have been nastier, however he had seized on me in initiative.
My full list was.

Overlord Res Orb, WS - Res Orb combo with Cryptek helped me save my relic bearers, they were shot down to 1 model remaining (9 losses) used 2 CP to prevent morale loss, reanimated the whole squad following. Cryptek 5++ helped keep the Praetorians alive turn 1.

Cryptek
10 Immortals Tesla
9 Immortals Gauss
10 Warriors

7 Praetorians
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths

Annihilation Barge - Literally in the list as lascannon bait. It mostly worked.
x3 Heavy Destroyers
x3 Heavy Destroyers

His from memory was something like

Cawl
Techpreist Dominus
x3 Onager Dunecrawlers (x2 lascannons, x1 icarus)
x4 Kastellan Robots w/ triple phosphor
Datasmith
A block of infiltrator assault skitarii
2 squads of rangers
2 squads of...vanguard?

It was a close thing. Don't get me wrong, but I gave him less than ideal targets to focus on that could actually take his fire.
Got into combat with his screening units, tied up his kastellans, and by that point i'd whittled him down enough he could not hope to catch my warriors running away to the far end of the board into a building.

**Klowny**

If tomb blades drop in points they are a near auto include in all of my lists, considering how well they perform on the tabletop. In saying that, would ours potentially drop? Having stupid dakka, RP and fly makes them very very good. I cant think of many bikes that are better. Any others have awesome shooting, durability, invuln saves and ignores cover as options on a 3+ save?

**Odrankt**

Cryptek 5++ helped keep the Praetorians alive turn 1.

Cryptek is able to give 5+ invul to Friendly Dynasty Infantry units. Praetorians lack a way to gain <Dynasty> so your 5+ invul and 4+ Reanimation (if used) doesn't affect Praetorians.

Anrakyr and Szeras are the only HQs that can buff Praetorians.

**iGuy91**

Odrankt wrote:
Cryptek 5++ helped keep the Praetorians alive turn 1.

Cryptek is able to give 5+ invul to Friendly Dynasty Infantry units. Praetorians lack a way to gain <Dynasty> so your 5+ invul and 4+ Reanimation (if used) doesn't affect Praetorians.

Anrakyr and Szeras are the only HQs that can buff Praetorians.

Guh. That is really pant-on head stupid. But looking back over things, i can't see any reason you wouldn't be right.
He mostly focused the wraiths. Basically wiped a squad of 6 turn 1.

**Inevitableq**

I ordered two sentry pylons but seeings as how neither come with the necessary parts to make a heat cannon, i was wondering if you folks have any suggestions on kit bashing one?

**FunkBiscuit**

Just played a 1500 match against Dark Eldar, rolled for Retrieval mission with vanguard deployment.

List was:

Spoiler:

He had:

Spoiler:

He focused the wasps, then the centipedes when I had em pop up end of turn 2 (got a nice clean opening that I didnt have turn 1_. I got a viper with the archons (one died in the wreck), a ravager, and a squad of the bikes.

Doomsday did diddly. Same with the triarch. Triarch just doesnt have the range I needed, and the Doomsday doesnt have the shots. Wraiths got into melee and I feel like they can wreck face. I know the wasps can, but they got murdered crossing the field. I feel like scarabs were only useful for me denying deep strike, but seeing as he didnt have any... useless. Loving the wraiths though. Now thinking about swapping the triarch/doomsday/olord/scarabs for a monolith and CCB. get much more in my opponents face.

(On the plus side, table next to my was Space Wolves v Grey Knights. GK brought grandmaster, Draigo, and a stormraven. I never want to fight that.)

**skoffs**

FunkBiscuit wrote:
thinking about swapping the triarch/doomsday/olord/scarabs for a monolith and CCB

Swapping some of our better units out for some of our worst ones?
Well, hopefully it works out better for you than I would assume would go...

**Odrankt**

Drukhari are a pretty mobile and offensive army.

I personally think Gauss Tomb Blades, Tesla Immortals, Tesseract Ark and Triarch Stalker would be a good combination.

May I ask how your Tomb Sentinel and Stalker got popped turn 2?I would presume the Stalker would have been gak at fire but good at CC while the Sentinel would have been more reliable?

Maybe you just didn't play the army right? Everything you listed should have given the Drukhari player. A hard time and not a turn 2 tabling?

We're you playing Offensively or Defensively ?

The Triarch Stalker can move 10" so you could of had 36"+10" (48)" range if you dont mind a -1 to hit. Nearly everyone here has agreed that DDA are pretty lame. The only good thing about them is their mobility and firing power of 10 warriors. You need to field 2-3 DDAs just to make them affective.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is also quite "bad" to build an army around other armies. Your "new" list might stop your opponents Drukhari but it might be gak towards Orks, Space Marines, Aeldari etc. It's usually better to build the army you want that can basically cover all army threats and then learn that army in side out.

Just don't feel disappointed if your "anti-Drukhair" list can't handle other armies.

**Klowny**

I mean, a ravager full of dark lances will vapourise a centipede a turn each.....

Scarabs are meant for DS denial and good against hordes, but not much else. You needed actual anti tank to pop the ravagers and vipers, of which you had very little. Tesseract arks, pylons all would go a long way, D6 shots is much better than d3.

If you took a monolith and CCB against that you would die even quicker. A 20w monolith wouldn't last a turn, and offer way less offence. A CCB without a screen is also the same.

Besides that you dont have much offensive punch, the melee centipede is terrible, the only reason you take them is for the big ol face gun. And thats a not a great idea against an army as mobile as the one you faced with a 12" gun.

What would actually be pretty good against an army like that is massed infantry, meaning his dark lances and ravageres are wasted. That way you can pop the vipers and shoot what is inside.

Also Odrankt, I am using the heat ray from my triarch stalker, magnetising it so I can use it for both.

**Odrankt**

Also Odrankt, I am using the heat ray from my triarch stalker, magnetising it so I can use it for both.

Cheers Klowny but I think you meant your answer towards Inevitableq

**skoffs**

Klowny wrote:
Scarabs are meant for DS denial and good against hordes, but not much else.

File High Toughness units (T7+) into that "else" category.

**Klowny**

skoffs wrote:
Klowny wrote:
Scarabs are meant for DS denial and good against hordes, but not much else.

File High Toughness units (T7+) into that "else" category.

TBH, I dont really rate their damage output against anything but T3/4, and only T4 with crappy saves, like orks. The lack of an ap is really noticable. Sure they are more effective vs T8 than S6 attacks on paper, but those S6 attacks will be bringing a good AP and damage usually, C'tan for example, while a wraith still has -1ap.

High toughness usually also brings a good armour save, and while you might put 7-8 wounds on one (if your lucky) thats maybe 1-2 wounds that will get through. If you dont save a single c'tan attack thats on a 5++ usually, its at least that damage, probably more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Odrankt wrote:
Also Odrankt, I am using the heat ray from my triarch stalker, magnetising it so I can use it for both.

Cheers Klowny but I think you meant your answer towards Inevitableq

I was so confused as to what this meant, until I went back up and re-read who posted the question

Yep was directed that way and not at you my friend

**JNAProductions**

The math shows that, point for point, they've got better offense than Wraiths against most anything, ESPECIALLY high toughness models (even accounting for saves).

**Odrankt**

Your all good Klowny, there is quite a lot of posting going on between different members.

I think that Scarabs are good at Counter-Deep string, Denying CC, holding up enemy units that will wreck gak and to act as an "ambush" unit incase your enemy is up in your grill.

I think 2-3 units of 8-9 is loads to do what I have stated above. I usually have a unit body guard my Triarch Stalkers, Immortals and Overlord and use the other to eat smite spam and to help my Tomb Sentinel stay in combat by not letting my enemy fall back into them.

- JNAProductions -

Maths might show Scarabs are better then Wraiths "point of point" but we are playing a Dice game which means we're nearly always playing a different games due to dice rolls. I think it is better to have a unit for dedicated CC (Praetorians and Wraiths) and units that counter it or deny it (Scarabs) then to have a army made based maths alone. The Scarabs might be our best point for point units but that doesnt mean they are going to preform like the maths show. I rather list build on reliability then list build on what should preform better.

**JNAProductions**

Odrankt wrote:
Maths might show Scarabs are better then Wraiths "point of point" but we are playing a Dice game which means we're nearly always playing a different games due to dice rolls. I think it is better to have a unit for dedicated CC (Praetorians and Wraiths) and units that counter it or deny it (Scarabs) then to have a army made based maths alone. The Scarabs might be our best point for point units but that doesnt mean they are going to pro-form like he maths show. I rather list build on reliability then list build on what should preform better.

And that kinda confuses me-I'd rely on math to see which is more reliable, not gut feelings.

I'm not saying you're wrong (I lack ANY experience with 8th edition 'Crons, so obviously I'm speaking purely from theory) especially since it's so dinger-dang ANNOYING to get Scarabs, but I would think you'd want the cold, hard, objective reliability that comes from math, rather than anecdotal evidence.

Like I said, I don't have experience with 'Crons in 8th, so if the tournament winners and your experience tells you otherwise, then that's fine. I just find math is quite the useful tool.