Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**Maelstrom808**

I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

**skoffs**

Careful on the wishlisting, guys.
Maybe okay to stick to things we know every book with internal factions has had so far (eg. the speed faction, the melee faction, etc.) and extrapolate from there what we should realistically be able to expect, though. Would not be an unreasonable thing to plan for/build ideas around.

Talking about new hopeful units would be pretty much pointless at the moment without anything to back it up with (ie. credible rumor).

Anyone know what the substantiated-rumor-to-actual-leaks time window has been for the most recent books? (so we know abouts when to expect ours to start rolling in)

**Requizen**

They've been pretty inconsistent with rumor to release windows. BA was like, what, 2 weeks before? Meanwhile the Nid/Eldar books were announced a month or more before the actual release. They'll announce whenever they think is the right time to hype - I wouldn't expect any news until around Christmas/New Years as kind of a "here's what to look forward to in 2018" type of thing.

**torblind**

Requizen wrote:
We chatted about it before, but it's fun to think about. So far the "main" dynasties are Sautekh (main one), Nihilakh (Trazyn's dynasty), and Mephrit (Shield of Baal dynasty). Maynarkh are the FW dynasty, so won't get rules in the Codex, much like Raptors, Charcharodons, and Minotaurs don't get Chapter Tactics. There are a couple others that have minor fluff and confirmed color schemes, like Thokt, Novokh, Charnovokh, and Nekthyst. Of those, Novokh and Charnovokh are called out by name in the new Rulebook.

So likely we'll see Sautekh, Nihilakh, Mephrit, Novokh, and Charnovokh, maybe 1 other but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just those 5.

Sautekh - largest dynasty, will likely get some generalist ability or one that encourages high numbers of Troops.

Mephrit - "Star-killers", known for really powerful C'tan and having powerful energy weapons. Likely good shooting ability, some Strat that encourages a C'tan. Last edition they had a Relic that made one C'tan +1 Toughness and Strength, so will likely get that again.

Nihilakh - Trazyn is rich and has lots of treasures. Maybe something like Salamanders, where you get rerolls for having better gear than other people.

Novokh - Known for being really violent and bloody, so probably an Assault buff. Maybe something special for Flayed Ones.

Carnovokh - Described as "clinging defiantly to the edges of the Eastern Fringe" and that their worlds are small and scattered, so this one will likely get a Morale buff like Iyanden (who can only lose at most one model from Morale).

Thokt has a named Geosculptor character, so if they get Dynasty abilities maybe some special Relic or Stratagem for Crypteks.

Great! I thought about the C'Tans but completely forgot about the God Shackle and the Mephrit dynasty, its a great piece of fluffy wargear, game mechanicly its not too different from Celestine (a group of models with special roles centered around a special character). +1 S/T shouldn't be too strong of a trait either. One could always hope.

**skoffs**

Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

**DaKhriS**

torblind wrote:
Trying to think of fluff-related themes to base dynasties on so far I have:

* Shooting
* Fighting
* Teleporptation
* Flayer virus / insanity?
* Canpoteks
* Praetorians
* Anti psyker? Bring back pariahs? (unlikely)
* Slow and extra sturdy (5+ FnP?, cheap extra RP? )
* Speedcrons? (always advance 6"?, charge after advance?)
* Vehicle oriented (LM gives D3 HP intsead of 1 perhaps?, 5++/6++ on vehicles?)

Mo often than not, the extra abilities the "subfaction" get are recycled; so don't get your hopes on too many new ones. Maybe one or two.
I hope Maynarkh gets Canoptek-based abilities, as my army mostly has Canopteks or Destroyers. (the only non-Canopteks I have are HQ, Stalker, TA and 60 Warriors, so yeah)
We might get an infiltrate option that actually works (like AdMech Stygies, where you redeploy prior game, so you get guaranteed charge if you go first, but are vulnerable for shooting if second)
Hope for something that gives -1 to hit at 12" + range maybe? That'd help Destoyers :p
Advance + Charge for flayers maybe?

Who knows, just hope we get SOMETHIN'

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Odrankt wrote:
I think with a few edits on some of our datasheets we could actually be an effective army in both resilience and offense.

While we can't deny or produce Pysker powers what about a buff that let us deny powers based on our number of units. E.G. Magus from GSC has an aura that let's him and any friendly unit within 6" to deny one pysker test per unit per phase. Something like that on a Cryptek buffing 2 Warriors/Immortals units and Overlord is 4 DTW rolls which is a lot more then what we can currently have.

Also, if they let the DDA damage rolls of 1 or 2 automatically become 3 then that would make the DDA about 40% more effective if all it's damage is always between 3-6 wounds. I probably get over the D3 shots if that was done.

Might read this as a "wish list" but I do think that if certain paragraphs were re-worded or if we could "adopt" other armies rulls into our own version then we would be a better well rounded army.

Like with AdMech Neutron lasers

**CthuluIsSpy**

The necrons do need more special guns. For the most advanced race in the galaxy, their armory always felt a little bland. Where are the flamethrowers, the grenades, the missiles?

Of course, by those I don't mean literal flamethrowers, grenades and missiles, but weapons that fulfill those roles.
Like a weapon that sends out a cloud of flesh eating nanites (flamethrower), a single use weapon that makes a black hole (grenade) or a homing, solid projectile that's sheathed in anti-matter or something (missile)

Remember disruption fields from 3rd ed and entropic weapons from 5th ed? Those were cool concepts. The entropic weapons were a little overboard, but a few tweaks might bring it in line.

**DaKhriS**

Maelstrom808 wrote:
I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

This, because alpha strikes in general are a problem for this game's balance (especially armies that seem to have been given the opportunity to abuse this, looking at your Death Company)

**Requizen**

Maelstrom808 wrote:I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

There are already armies that can stop Alpha Strikes. It's mass blob things like Orks (which are actually really good if you're ok pushing around 120 models per turn) or Death Guard with their Strats and lots of Zombies (or whatever they're called now).

If you want to play 7th style Necrons but better, play Death Guard. They basically stole our shtick back in 7th when they got their own rules, and now even moreso.

skoffs wrote:Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

Mmmaybe. T8 would put them at 6+ wounding for small arms, and also affects things like Autocannons and Missiles. S8 makes the Deceiver wound on 2+ against most Infantry, also nice. Depends on what the average melee profile is, how many Power Weapons and the like you're going against.

**Cmdr_Sune**

So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

**sieGermans**

skoffs wrote:
Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

Mortarian has that exact ability.

**zacharia**

Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

I hope so but its not gurunteed. Reece has previously said hes suprised at necrons tournament showing but thinks them fine for the normal meta. Also if codex is indeed just around the corner those results almost certainly wont be factored in to any changes.

**Requizen**

zacharia wrote:
Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

I hope so but its not gurunteed. Reece has previously said hes suprised at necrons tournament showing but thinks them fine for the normal meta. Also if codex is indeed just around the corner those results almost certainly wont be factored in to any changes.

The FLG guys are cool and I love their whole organization, but they clearly don't play with/against competitive "filth" all that often. Their lists on stream are often well designed and interesting, but wouldn't hold up to a seriously cutting edge tourney winning list.

When playing against a normal army, something like Space Marines with a well distributed amount of units, some transports, etc, Necrons can perform pretty well. When against Guilliman Gunline with Imperial Soup, not so much. Against regular CSM, competes ok, against cutthroat Chaos Soup with mixed cherrypicking, Magnus, and Stratagem shenanigans, it's not even a game.

The top armies can have "normal" builds and "power" builds. Our power builds are on par with most normal builds, and that's the main problem. So yeah, if you roll into your local GW for a game you won't have an issue but Heaven help you if you go to Adepticon.

**sieGermans**

Requizen wrote:
zacharia wrote:
Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So I'm currently listening to Frontline gamings podcast Chapter tactics. They have a faction statistics breakdown using data from all the ITC tournaments and the Best Coast Pairings app...
... Necrons are the worst faction currently. (Although Deathwatch are worse, but with a low sample size.)

So I guess it can only get better when the codex comes out.

I hope so but its not gurunteed. Reece has previously said hes suprised at necrons tournament showing but thinks them fine for the normal meta. Also if codex is indeed just around the corner those results almost certainly wont be factored in to any changes.

The FLG guys are cool and I love their whole organization, but they clearly don't play with/against competitive "filth" all that often. Their lists on stream are often well designed and interesting, but wouldn't hold up to a seriously cutting edge tourney winning list.

When playing against a normal army, something like Space Marines with a well distributed amount of units, some transports, etc, Necrons can perform pretty well. When against Guilliman Gunline with Imperial Soup, not so much. Against regular CSM, competes ok, against cutthroat Chaos Soup with mixed cherrypicking, Magnus, and Stratagem shenanigans, it's not even a game.

The top armies can have "normal" builds and "power" builds. Our power builds are on par with most normal builds, and that's the main problem. So yeah, if you roll into your local GW for a game you won't have an issue but Heaven help you if you go to Adepticon.

Yea, it’s a bit related to the question we were discussing a few pages back:

For each of the current Competitive Meta Lists; What is our optimal tailored list and relevant general Strategy (or specific tactics if distinct)?

For some of them, we have decent, albeit inflexible options: MWBD-Tesla Immortals are great dakka versus swarm builds, but impotent against the Competitive Guilliman lists. Etc.

**torblind**

Requizen wrote:
Maelstrom808 wrote:I think the necrons would be a fantastic opportunity to shake up the alpha strike meta. Make them an army that can soak that first turn or two of damage, then grind the opponent down. That, or bring back the feel of the 5th edition book of raiders and incomprehensible technology.

...and I want my old warscythes back. They used to be the most feared melee weapon in the game.

There are already armies that can stop Alpha Strikes. It's mass blob things like Orks (which are actually really good if you're ok pushing around 120 models per turn) or Death Guard with their Strats and lots of Zombies (or whatever they're called now).

If you want to play 7th style Necrons but better, play Death Guard. They basically stole our shtick back in 7th when they got their own rules, and now even moreso.

skoffs wrote:Hmm,
If the God Shackle returns but is limited to generic Shards, would it improve them enough to consider them as viable?
(they really need to fix those ones. Give them the Slide back, inflicting mortal wounds on anything they slide into if they don't want to mess with the whole "draw a line through units" mechanic again).

Mmmaybe. T8 would put them at 6+ wounding for small arms, and also affects things like Autocannons and Missiles. S8 makes the Deceiver wound on 2+ against most Infantry, also nice. Depends on what the average melee profile is, how many Power Weapons and the like you're going against.

The shackle also gave the shard 5+ FNP, that would definitely be welcome

**Cmdr_Sune**

FLG has said that they run soft lists when making battlereports so that the games get more interesting. They are tournament guys and are very good at the game.

I think it's they way Reece is that makes it sound that everything is good. Just listen to one of their codex reviews on Signals on the frontline.

Luckily other groups has said that Necrons are in a bad position and I believe some of them have also been involved in playtesting.

**Lothmar**

I forget, do biker models have any special rules on where they can sit?

Didn't know if our tomb blades which are both flying and bikers can effectively jet out of a melee and up to a high level of a building nearby.

**torblind**

Lothmar wrote:
I forget, do biker models have any special rules on where they can sit?

Didn't know if our tomb blades which are both flying and bikers can effectively jet out of a melee and up to a high level of a building nearby.

They have fly, so no problem

**Doctoralex**

I'm thinking of trying Deathmarks. I've been having a lot of problems with deep-striking enemies who are then buffed with a movement ability (Veil of Time, Warptime etc) to get an easy charge off.

The Deathmarks could snipe the psyker before he can buff the deepstruck unit (since the sniper joins them in their deepstrike).

The problem is ofc if 10 Deathmarks can pull it off. Especially on stuff like a Librarian/Exalted Sorceror who have 4W and a 3+ save...

**JNAProductions**

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm thinking of trying Deathmarks. I've been having a lot of problems with deep-striking enemies who are then buffed with a movement ability (Veil of Time, Warptime etc) to get an easy charge off.

The Deathmarks could snipe the psyker before he can buff the deepstruck unit (since the sniper joins them in their deepstrike).

The problem is ofc if 10 Deathmarks can pull it off. Especially on stuff like a Librarian/Exalted Sorceror who have 4W and a 3+ save...

20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

**Odrankt**

20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

Deathmarks are rapid fire 1 so they get 1 shoot per mode or 2 if in rapid fire range. So, a unit of 10 can produce 20 shots maximum.

**JNAProductions**

Odrankt wrote:
20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

Deathmarks are rapid fire 1 so they get 1 shoot per mode or 2 if in rapid fire range. So, a unit of 10 can produce 20 shots maximum.

Yeah. I know. I started that with 20 shots.

**Odrankt**

JNAProductions wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits. That's 20/9 mortal wounds and 10/3 wounds, for about 3 wounds total, assuming no hit penalties or FNP or cover or anything.

In other words... No.

Deathmarks are rapid fire 1 so they get 1 shoot per mode or 2 if in rapid fire range. So, a unit of 10 can produce 20 shots maximum.

Yeah. I know. I started that with 20 shots.

Okay, so what do you mean by "20 shots (assuming Rapid Fire) is 40/3 hits."? Either the maths don't add up or I am not understanding what your example means? E.g. how does 20 become 40.

**JNAProductions**

(2/3)*20=40/3

That's hit chance time number of shots.

**skoffs**

Just bring three units of 10 Deathmarks.
Problem solved!
(no, not really)

**Lothmar**

I mean alternatively even if you fail you can make a fence out of your deathmarks. xD

**torblind**

www.dice-hammer.com shows you the damage output from deathmarks easily against various Toughness/Save combinations.

Just expand the little arrow on the weapon tab, and check "Sniper", and the damage output now includes MW on 6+ to wound in addition.

**Lothmar**

Am I wrong for thinking that if your warriors don’t need the repair function of the ghost ark you should try to station it at a 7 inch orbit?

I say 7 because at lowest tier you've got 4 inche move and you need to be within 3 inches at the end of a move phase so that you can provide a secondary RP and staying more then 6 away basically means you wont be hurting your guys if you do get unlucky and they take out your pitt crew.

Then again if you're that low on health you should probably be hovering your GA out to pasture so that it can at least try to kamikaze some enemies on a lucky roll.
Thoughts?

Also I like Tomb blades but my mind has trouble figuring out how to best get them proper Cryptek support so that I have the best chance of getting these expensive models back into the field as it were. Is it better to run the armor boost over the invul, or vice versa, or should I suck it up and pay for both just in case?

Anyone got any good tips? Im guessing Veil would help but that's only usable once and at the end of a move so you really have to know you're gonna be relatively locked into a specific region for this.
Thoughts?

**sieGermans**

If the Ghost Ark repair aura was not restricted to Warriors alone, it’d be more useful. Given the niche role it occupies, your idea appears sound.

For Tomb Blades, you should run a mix of some with Invuln only and others with Armor only; and tank wounds as appropriate based on incoming firepower. For a 9-man squad, I also run 3 without any gear at all, because I love crunchy optimization.

**Lothmar**

SG - How does that work in game if they're all a single unit (or were you referencing multiple squads with different loadouts)?

Do you always just assume the average across the unit?

ex: AP 2 weapon hits X times, I make saves on a 6 initially. That attack run wipes out models so I remove the ones without any gear.

Or can I effectively roll saves 1 at a time and say im making the saves on a particular model group first?
ex: AP 4+ weapon with X wounds, so I make them one at a time with my invul units and if I prematurely lose all my invul units then the remaining wounds just go straight through to other models, at which point i'd take away the lesser non armored models etc.