The Gathering Storm Part III: Rise of the Primarch -- twitch broadcast 3.3.17

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**Tamereth**

Starfarer wrote:
Tamereth wrote:
FFS they are really going there aren't they.

This is "The End Times", sci-fi edition. Every over the top BS thing you can think of is probably going to happen, and fast. Expect all of the Primarchs to re-appear, one a month from now on.
8th edition will be Age of the Emperor. 30 years worth of fluff will be destroyed in a bid to sell big model kits.

I can't believe GW are really dumb enough to mess with the cash cow like this.

The Roboute model isn't even good.

Sorry, but how is all the other fluff destroyed by this? They didn't ret-con anything. You can just ignore it, you know? Nothing stopping you and your like-minded friends from playing any edition in existence or staying with 7th, or even using 8th and set up a campaign that doesn't involve any of this. If you don't like it just ignore it.

This is like when people complain about sequels or reboots ruining the original movie. No, the original is still stands on it's own. Anything added beyond that doesn't affect that unless you let it.

And Nigel Mansell is still the reigning F1 world champion. Coz they changed the rules and format of the races and I didn't like it, so the last 20 years don't count. and I can watch him race every sunday on TV..... Oh wait that's not how life works. Things change and can't be undone by ignoring them.

Having looked at the pictures more I really like the cypher model. But I feel buying the set for him would just encourage GW. I guess I only have myself to blame. Panic buying all those fantasy armies must have convinced GW that AoS was working.

**krazynadechukr**

Asmodai wrote:
krazynadechukr wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT THIS IS A PHOTOSHOP....pinched from a FB group.

What a difference a cape makes to the pose.

Just a heads up.... He IS coming!

Well, it lends credence to the theory that GW and FW hate each other. Same day that GW reveals a Primarch, FW is like "We can top that!".

How can a company hate itself?

**Thairne**

For all that is holy... this has to be some random guy spouting gak on the internet.

While the fluff is cool and somewhat interesting, the execution... terrible.

This would leave every player that thought his DA loyalists in a hard position:
Repaint everything black
or
play traitors.
I will do neither of these. If this goes through, I've got a DA army to throw in the bin.

If it would be the other way round (traitors go black and loyalists stay with chapter colours) it would be... acceptable.
No more "DA are traitors" - no, THOSE are and I shoot them on sight!

Smells too much of "I made gak up after seeing Cypher with black dudes".
I hope.

**IMMORTAN_AL**

many people wanted the story to advance, so here it is. i am willing to bet though the imperium secondus under the guiding genius of our Spiritual Liege will transform the ultramarines into thunderblast immortals complete with new models with some small subfactions i.e. your old space marines and space wolves to be auxillaries. other space marines like blood angels and dark angels and all the grey kinghts and deathwatch will swing to old school imperium who'll cook up lightningblast forevers to oppose.

**Gamgee**

Ynead brought back as a plot device just to ressurect Guilliman. Now that is hilarious. It's already beginning. Talk about getting screwed.

**gungo**

Tamereth wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
Tamereth wrote:
FFS they are really going there aren't they.

This is "The End Times", sci-fi edition. Every over the top BS thing you can think of is probably going to happen, and fast. Expect all of the Primarchs to re-appear, one a month from now on.
8th edition will be Age of the Emperor. 30 years worth of fluff will be destroyed in a bid to sell big model kits.

I can't believe GW are really dumb enough to mess with the cash cow like this.

The Roboute model isn't even good.

Nah, cash is exactly why they're messing with it.

Loyalist Primarchs will sell by the bucket loads. They've gradually been raising the SM arms race for years now. Fliers, Centurions, (allied) Knights, Wolf Chariots, etc. AoS was brought about to sell Fantasy Space Marines and it's working.[i][/u]

Forge World has turned into 'The Warhammer 30,000 Company' because people love their generic power armoured dudes. So obviously the next best thing is to turn 40k into Horus Heresy 2.0.

The 40k End Times will be the squat'ing of every non-Space Marine army. Unlike the End Times, most of the fandom will lap this up eagerly because, you guessed it, most of fandom are spared from their fate. Maybe not come 8th, but by 9th I'd be surprised if Imperial Guard and Sisters haven't been relegated to the position the Inquisition inhabit now. Xenos races will only be the purview of those box set board games as NPCs. Black Library will be nothing but books focusing on the exploits of the (loyalist) Primarchs in both the 41st millenium and what they were up to during their time away.

AoS working to sell Sigmarines is very much open to interpretation. It killed fantasy gaming around here. Nearly all the local shops that sold GW products have stopped since AoS launched.

GW is taking a massive gamble by changing up 40K like this, and it's not one they needed to take.

Think about it this way, What would the reaction be if the next star wars film said Jedi's powers were in fact caused by nanites and everyone could acquire them. Some people would love it, but a hell of a lot of fans would just walk away.

Omg gw just released a slightly larger space marine the end of 40k as we know it!!!
Less melodrama and more rumors, ffs RG isn't even a GMC or super heavy walker he's just a bulky space marine who cares.

**455_PWR**

Damn! I thought we were going to see the primarch of the first legion, since this book was rumored to have a heavy dark angel presence. Instead we get a very strange guilimon. It appears he is all legs and arms with a tiny body and head... reminds me of a monkey. How is it that forgeworld makes primarch models that scale correctly, are proportionate, and gorgeous, when gw makes them awkward, massively oversized, and fugly? One you want to display, the other you want to hide lol.

Third book? Check (looks to be good)
Cypher? Check! (gorgeous model too)
New dark angel rules/units? :( none so far, screwed again
New Grey Knight? Check! (Another great model)
Primarch? Check... but, ah, its an all legs fugly guillimon

Still an auto buy for cypher and the grey knight characters. It will be interesting to see if Cypher can be used with a DA army after the story progresses, or if he will be a character with a fallen squad that now supports imperial factions.

**Gamgee**

Not only that but the Imperial triumvirate exists solely as gear carriers for robust. They each gave him something according to the stream. So every major character introduced so far is only here to move Robutts plot forward and help him. The Mary Sue begins and total degradation of characters who don't serve marines in some way has begun.

**mmzero252**

455_PWR wrote:
Damn! I thought we were going to see the primarch of the first legion, since this book was rumored to have a heavy dark angel presence. Instead we get a very strange guilimon. It appears he is all legs and arms with a tiny body and head... reminds me of a monkey. How is it that forgeworld makes primarch models that scale correctly, are proportionate, and gorgeous, when gw makes them awkward, massively oversized, and fugly? One you want to display, the other you want to hide lol.

Third book? Check (looks to be good)
Cypher? Check! (gorgeous model too)
New dark angel rules/units? :( none so far, screwed again
New Grey Knight? Check! (Another great model)
Primarch? Check... but, ah, its an all legs fugly guillimon

Still an auto buy for cypher and the grey knight characters. It will be interesting to see if Cypher can be used with a DA army after the story progresses, or if he will be a character with a fallen squad that now supports imperial factions.

At the very least there's a positive about the Rowboat model. You can easily convert a model that's already the proper size of a primarch..into other primarchs! I mean that or you could literally just buy most of them from Forgeworld...but now you have primarch-esque rules to fashion the others out of!

**warboss**

Verviedi wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Right, this is officially my next modelling project.

Spoiler:

Holy gak. That fixes all the issues I had with the model, except for the sword.

Don't forget the tiny, tiny hand holding it. I'd have preferred if they gave him consistent macrodactyly as at least that would match the rest of the model's abnormal proportions. (and yes I know the left hand is a powerfist visually but it looks more to scale with the model's gigantism than the tiny left hand does)

Either way, Verviedi, your version is a big improvement over the garish blinged out armor of the official version.

**Ruin**

Gamgee wrote:
Not only that but the Imperial triumvirate exists solely as gear carriers for robust. They each gave him something according to the stream. So every major character introduced so far is only here to move Robutts plot forward and help him. The Mary Sue begins and total degradation of characters who don't serve marines in some way has begun.

You just can't make this gak up...

**gungo**

455_PWR wrote:
Damn! I thought we were going to see the primarch of the first legion, since this book was rumored to have a heavy dark angel presence. Instead we get a very strange guilimon. It appears he is all legs and arms with a tiny body and head... reminds me of a monkey. How is it that forgeworld makes primarch models that scale correctly, are proportionate, and gorgeous, when gw makes them awkward, massively oversized, and fugly? One you want to display, the other you want to hide lol.

Third book? Check (looks to be good)
Cypher? Check! (gorgeous model too)
New dark angel rules/units? :( none so far, screwed again
New Grey Knight? Check! (Another great model)
Primarch? Check... but, ah, its an all legs fugly guillimon

Still an auto buy for cypher and the grey knight characters. It will be interesting to see if Cypher can be used with a DA army after the story progresses, or if he will be a character with a fallen squad that now supports imperial factions.

has any of the other gathering storm books not contained rules units or formations and detachments? Holy gak the salt on this board is crazy today. There is a Giant picture of cypher leading fallen dark angels in an imperium faction setting and your salting about no dark Angels rules when we have zero other leaks!

Furthermore the proportions of RG look vastly better outside of the grainy, cluttered, bent, scanned white dwarf pic. The 360 view looks a lot better.

**streetsamurai**

Gamgee wrote:
Not only that but the Imperial triumvirate exists solely as gear carriers for robust. They each gave him something according to the stream. So every major character introduced so far is only here to move Robutts plot forward and help him. The Mary Sue begins and total degradation of characters who don't serve marines in some way has begun.

And some were saying that the introduction of Loyalist Primarch would not necessarly entails that pretty much all future fluff would be based on them

What a terrible development

**Tamereth**

gungo wrote:
Tamereth wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:
Tamereth wrote:
FFS they are really going there aren't they.

This is "The End Times", sci-fi edition. Every over the top BS thing you can think of is probably going to happen, and fast. Expect all of the Primarchs to re-appear, one a month from now on.
8th edition will be Age of the Emperor. 30 years worth of fluff will be destroyed in a bid to sell big model kits.

I can't believe GW are really dumb enough to mess with the cash cow like this.

The Roboute model isn't even good.

Nah, cash is exactly why they're messing with it.

Loyalist Primarchs will sell by the bucket loads. They've gradually been raising the SM arms race for years now. Fliers, Centurions, (allied) Knights, Wolf Chariots, etc. AoS was brought about to sell Fantasy Space Marines and it's working.[i][/u]

Forge World has turned into 'The Warhammer 30,000 Company' because people love their generic power armoured dudes. So obviously the next best thing is to turn 40k into Horus Heresy 2.0.

The 40k End Times will be the squat'ing of every non-Space Marine army. Unlike the End Times, most of the fandom will lap this up eagerly because, you guessed it, most of fandom are spared from their fate. Maybe not come 8th, but by 9th I'd be surprised if Imperial Guard and Sisters haven't been relegated to the position the Inquisition inhabit now. Xenos races will only be the purview of those box set board games as NPCs. Black Library will be nothing but books focusing on the exploits of the (loyalist) Primarchs in both the 41st millenium and what they were up to during their time away.

AoS working to sell Sigmarines is very much open to interpretation. It killed fantasy gaming around here. Nearly all the local shops that sold GW products have stopped since AoS launched.

GW is taking a massive gamble by changing up 40K like this, and it's not one they needed to take.

Think about it this way, What would the reaction be if the next star wars film said Jedi's powers were in fact caused by nanites and everyone could acquire them. Some people would love it, but a hell of a lot of fans would just walk away.

Omg gw just released a slightly larger space marine the end of 40k as we know it!!!
Less melodrama and more rumors, ffs RG isn't even a GMC or super heavy walker he's just a bulky space marine who cares.

The end times started with Nagash being woken up. They weren't going to blow up the whole world, he was just a larger than normal necromancer.......

Remember it's not paranoia if they ARE trying to kill you.

Also has anyone seen the rules for Roboute. How do you know he's not a GMC?

**Mymearan**

It's like some of you guys imagine GW being staffed by evil cackling alien lizards rather than actual humans. "the total degradation of every character who doesn't serve marines in some way", "GW are pissing all over the background and making sure the stink of their contempt for it runs foetid through every page". You have to realise how comical this gak sounds. There is no contempt here. These are people doing what they love in a way you disagree with, not megalomaniacal crazies doing everything they can to piss you off.

**streetsamurai**

Not at all. I know that some are happy that the game is turning into a super vilain vs super hero setting, but it's simply something I have no interest in.

**Vorian**

I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.

That's a real time saver

**doghouse**

Thairne wrote:
For all that is holy... this has to be some random guy spouting gak on the internet.

While the fluff is cool and somewhat interesting, the execution... terrible.

This would leave every player that thought his DA loyalists in a hard position:
Repaint everything black
or
play traitors.
I will do neither of these. If this goes through, I've got a DA army to throw in the bin.

If it would be the other way round (traitors go black and loyalists stay with chapter colours) it would be... acceptable.
No more "DA are traitors" - no, THOSE are and I shoot them on sight!

Smells too much of "I made gak up after seeing Cypher with black dudes".
I hope.

Seriously hope you are right there mate, that stuff stinks to high heaven of trolling. But having seen the other stuff GW have been butchering the lore with of late I wouldn't put it past them...

**streetsamurai**

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what development they made in it to know that they don't like it.

**Crablezworth**

It's almost like a visual metaphor for how much better 30k is than 40k at this point. The gw version looks like something out of aos.

I am reminded of this:

Spoiler:

**streetsamurai**

Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.

That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.

Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Crablezworth wrote:

It's almost like a visual metaphor for how much better 30k is than 40k at this point. The gw version looks like something out of aos.

While the 30k version is objectively superior, I like both.

**Mymearan**

Crablezworth wrote:
[im]https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99560101444_RobouteGuilliman04.jpg[/im][im]http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/guilliman-new.jpg[/ig]

It's almost like a visual metaphor for how much better 30k is than 40k at this point. The gw version looks like something out of aos.

That FW model is really superior in every way. Can't agree with the AoS comment though, over-the-top AoS models all look a lot better than Roboute here IMO.

**Ruin**

Here's footage of GW writing 40k's end times

**casvalremdeikun**

I a curious what sort of stats Guilliman will have. Unlike Magnus, I can't see GW giving him the MC type. Hopefully he packs stats that are 6+ like Magnus.

**Breotan**

Someone probably linked this before but I didn't see it so apologies if this is a repeat.

**jah-joshua**

holy guacamole!!!
what an amazing leak to wake up to...
i love Fridays

Papa Smurf looks awesome with the helmet option..
the Grand Master will be a lot of fun to paint...
Cypher has got nice old school armor...

i think this is the best Triumvirate set...
even though i really like the other two, this one wins for me...
power armor all over the place

it is going to be really hard to choose which models out of these three Triumvirate boxes to paint up for the local convention's painting contest in May...

cheers
jah

**insaniak**

Cypher and the Grey knight look cool.

Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

**Vorian**

streetsamurai wrote:
Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.

That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.

Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

That's good for you. But that still doesn't stop it being silly to criticise developments by what people are imagining them to be.

**casvalremdeikun**

insaniak wrote:
Cypher and the Grey knight look cool.

Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

he is about 1.5-2.0 times the height of the Space Marines around him. A bit too tall for sure, but not completely out of the range of what he should be. Most of the Primarch were considerably larger than the average marine. Only Alpharius was anywhere near the height of a marine.