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JWBS wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Cruxeh wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.

Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.

As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!

Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )

Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.

As I said. Compare it again when they sell all weapons in one warlord box rather than pattern per box. For comparison that would be following boxes for knights:

a) paladin
b) errant
c) crusader
d) gallant
e) warrant
f) preceptor

See? How many kits that is? You think warlords going that is same thing as knights now? At least with knights you could wait to get full box and have all options. Now you will need 3 boxes of warlord for 1 complete warlord. WAAAAAAY different.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.

I think your analogy failed when you tried to use Forge World resin kits, when you buy a Fellblade you only want the Fellblade. The point here is that whilst the Questoris Knights had 2 separate releases with the same kit being re-released with an extra sprue, Cruxeh has missed that it was very much an extra sprue added into the box, it did not replace an existing sprue (as is what is happening with the Warlord as the Sunfury/Turbo Laser sprue will replace the Volcano Cannon/Missile Launcher sprue) and that the second release was very much ment to replace the earlier one, in this case both Warlords are very much meant to be sold alongside each other.

I'm sure early adopters of Imperial Knights were a bit annoyed about that as well, but there was over a year between the two releases as opposed to the 5 months between the two Warlords, and when you are running an army of just Knights you kind of want loads of them anyway whereas whilst you can run a Warlord heavy Battlegroup in AT it is very much meant to be the centerpiece running with smaller Warhounds and Reavers.

 Nurglitch wrote:
I occasionally wonder why they didn't go with more weapon options. The original AT was fantastic because it had such a range of builds you could try with the six Warlords in the box.

Can't get players to buy 3 boxes to get complete titan that way

tneva82 wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.

Ummm...You can build baneblade so that you can swap between loadouts. Baneblade one game, shadowsword next, then stormlord, doomhammer...And you can do that on knights. Only thing stopping warlords from doing that is there's no weapons because FW decided not to sell the weapon sprues on their own.

This is like selling baneblade kit with only one variants weapons each. But thing is GW doesn't do it like that. They sell ALL variants in one box so with magnets(which warlord kit was pretty much needlessly designed with) you can swap variants. Sure if you want 3 baneblade chassis at once you need 3 models. But again apples and oranges to here. We are talking about inability to have warlord with swappale weapons with one kit. Same ability baneblades has. Same ability knights have. Same ability most of GW models are. Even basic tactical marines are more magnet friendly kit than warlord.

Yeah I may have misunderstood your point slightly. Point I was making though was that there are plenty of kits where you need to buy a whole kit to get the weapon you want. I see why people are pissed about the Warlord. Personally I'm ambivolent (I haven't invested yet, and when I do, I'm the type that will buy two Knights, and build them with two different loadouts, rather than messing around with magnets, which is also what I'll do with AT Warlords. I don't even game. I just like to build and paint and collect, so magnets aren't really a thing I value). Still, there is the possibility that we'll see Titan weapon sprues at some point (not likely very soon - people seem very annoyed, and they've not said "It's ok, weapon sprues are on the way" - which leads me to beleive that they're a long way off if we do indeed see them eventually).

changemod wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/12/12th-nov-coming-soon-from-forge-world-new-titans-knights-and-morefw-homepage-post-2/

If the alternate weapon frame isn’t available separately, I’ll strongly question why they even put magnet holes in the damn models in the first place.

It's almost as if the present isn't the future... I would suggest, strongly, that the inclusion of magnet holes in the model, intentionally, means either a bit more patience. Or, of course, you can join those saying the sky is falling because a second warlord was released with different loadout.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SeanDrake wrote:
So Andy "Corporate" Hoare

I've met Andy Hoare a couple of times, not only is he incredibly laid back and approachable, he's a very decent human being. He's also the only person who's written for 40k in every major incarnation, FFG, GW, BL & FW. He's been with GW since the 90s working in the Golden Age of Andy Chambers, JJ, Fat Bloke, Gav Thorpe etc.

I've not met you, I assume you're a great human being as well, but that comment makes you sound like a proper gak, which I'd hope you're not. So knock it off.

tneva82 wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
I occasionally wonder why they didn't go with more weapon options. The original AT was fantastic because it had such a range of builds you could try with the six Warlords in the box.

Can't get players to buy 3 boxes to get complete titan that way

In my experience that sort of thing is just a gift to the bitz sellers, which recently GW has cracked down on by limiting unit options to what they get in the box. The more I think about it, but the more I'd imagine it's a compromise between getting all the different weapons on the frames, and getting all the other content like heads and other body parts.

Regarding the magnet thing, it's probably important to consider that the person who designed the models 18 months ago isn't the marketing person making the packaging and pricing decisions.

I think this is a real misstep for various reasons, but let's see how things sort out. Plans may change if 3D printers and shops in China do a very brisk business while sales of sunfury Warlords underwhelm.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
So Andy "Corporate" Hoare

I've met Andy Hoare a couple of times, not only is he incredibly laid back and approachable, he's a very decent human being. He's also the only person who's written for 40k in every major incarnation, FFG, GW, BL & FW. He's been with GW since the 90s working in the Golden Age of Andy Chambers, JJ, Fat Bloke, Gav Thorpe etc.

I've not met you, I assume you're a great human being as well, but that comment makes you sound like a proper gak, which I'd hope you're not. So knock it off.

Someone’s status as a “decent human being” or history is fantastically irrelevant to whether or not they’re currently engaging in the worst kind of weasely corporate semantic games. If Ghandi was working customer service for Apple and tried to spin removing headphone jacks as good customer service, I wouldn’t cut him slack on a stupid statement for unrelated good behaviour.

Companies don’t like to admit fault or apologise, and he’s acting in the capacity of a company representative in this instance.

I may end up printing weapons for all the players at my GW store. I wasn’t going to get into distribution of printed parts because I wanted to support the “new GW” but this move has genuinely pissed me off.

We’ll see.

This is a complete fail for GW. WIth the release of AT and the promise of Weapon Sprue's, holes for magnets etc they'd won back a load of veteran players filled with nostalgia and hope this was a turning point. They'd also killed off the 3rd Party kit makers as all the weapons would be available. With this move they've effectively given 3rd Party makers the geen light to start selling weapons by ceating the market for them. No one is going to pay £60 to get a weapon variant.

If this was the route GW were planning, both Warlord variants should have been in the GM Box at the start. Now people have multiple Warlords awaiting the weapon sprue and they do this

SO if you want the missile pack for the Knights, there will be a new box set comming out with the same Knights, but now with a missile pod.

GW is still actively engaged in the “release kit, upgrade it a few months later” - just look at how Armigers/Helverins were done.

It’s a fairly gakky move, but don’t expect GW to change their policies any time soon. I’d be shocked if we see the weapon sprues released as their own thing.

I’m glad I didn’t dive into this too deep, and still have my old AT stuff from the 80’s.

It sucks if you've bought 3+ Warlords with the magnets in place waiting for the weapons to arrive separately. Not so bad if you were waiting for the weapons before picking up those extra Warlords. We've still got resin add-ons coming though, right?

Yeah, what's interesting is that this isn't as big of a deal for the later adopters as the early adopters. I know people who are still on the fence about AT, and if they decide to jump in, they should have a few options for Warlord weapon kits. It's not as good as having all weapons available, but at least they aren't married to volcano cannons.

What I wonder about is the size of the late adopter market vs. the size of the early adopter market. My gut says that a fairly high percentage of the people who will play AT have already bought into AT. At least compared to 40K, etc. Definitely a potential misstep.

The real issue isn't early adaptors but early big adaptors. Those who went out and have bought 4, 5, 6 warlords already are the ones hurt. Those with only one or two are pretty much ok as they now know the status and can continue to expand - its an annoyance but won't likely stop them.

The ones who jumped in the deep end hard will get hurt most by this; thing is if GW had released a weapon pack and a new warlord with weapon pack most of those who already own 6 or more warlords would likely still have continued to buy more warlords.


Thing is those big players might not be many, but they are often the most eager in a club for a game. If you lose them then you lose the person that likely made more casual gamers pick up the game to start with. It's a silly move by GW since in the end it doesn't really help the community, esp when GW themselves put magnetic slots in the mould and hinted very very strongly that expansion weapons were coming; whilst also saying out right that some would be optoinal weapons sold in resin only. They've also done Necromunda with individual hand upgrades on FW. Granted there is some annoyance there in that they repeat weapons between kits, but htey still sold them all as individual weapons. So all the groundwork and expectation was that we'd see a weapon upgrade pack - likely with a warlord + upgrade bundle.

Plus GW made loads of noise about how they designed the sprues to be upgradeable by design - whilst that did suggest they'd release upgraded kits with new warlords with new weapons (and armour segments) there was still a view that we'd see the option to buy the weapon sprue separate as it wasn't part of the core sprue of the model itself.


The other thing is that it is likely going to curtail warlord sales now because people will be waiting for the next warlord weapon upgrade full kit. So instead of getting 2 or 3 of the new warlord they'll get 1 and magnetize it and wait for the next one. So if anything GW is stalling their own sales boom and stealing their own thunder. Plus they could resolve it all with a simple "It's not out yet but wait 2 months and we'll have an upgrade sprue for you at retail." or even "Direct order only weapon sprue"

I'm not sure that most players need more than two Warlords. Most would be fine with one. I won't be running any, or at least not until Ordo Sinister are available.

But yeah, fully agree that people weren't crazy for thinking there would be separate weapon kits.

As someone with only one warlord and intent of buying a second at some point anyhow, this is still an inconvenience because I’d effectively be buying two warlords with the weapons I want for -one-, and if further down the road they release a third warlord variant with another plastic sprue instead of making future weapons resin, I’d have three without enough variant weapons to adequately equip them except as mix and matches of their respective monobuilds.

I’d have been only too happy to buy a second warlord and two weapon packs, then buy another two weapon packs when the third variant came out. As is, I’m not sure what approach I’ll take but it’s certain to make them less money from me.

If I’d bought the grandmaster set I’d be absolutely livid.

My annoyance is that you can't mix and match weapons freely between your warlords now. So if you want them all to have rockets you've got to buy all rocket equipped ones, but then if you want the turbo lasers you have to buy a whole new set of warlords.


I still think we'll see a weapon upgrade sprue sold on its own at some point; GW is just not going to say its coming right now because they want you to buy the Warlord rather than wait; even though its not actually going to work because those who would wait are now more likely to not even buy the warlord.


For me I've only got one Warlord, so I'm fine if i get another for different weapons. But I'm not happy that I can't just upgrade the weapons without buying whole Warlords.

Looks like they listened and the weapon sprues are coming separately, and new Reaver announced, with separate sprue.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/13/guns-for-your-god-machines/

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not sure that most players need more than two Warlords. Most would be fine with one. I won't be running any, or at least not until Ordo Sinister are available.

But yeah, fully agree that people weren't crazy for thinking there would be separate weapon kits.

The first list I made was 3 Warlords at 1500pts and my second list was 4 at 2000pts. It may not be the best but it fits my legio’s background.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nels1031 wrote:
Looks like they listened and the weapon sprues are coming separately, and new Reaver announced, with separate sprue.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/13/guns-for-your-god-machines/

Wow, great news! And look at that Reaver head, it’s great! I’m going to have to cut a couple of mine off that I’ve already glued.

From WHC:

Yesterday, you got your first look at the forthcoming Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw, bringing even more city-destroying firepower to the battlefields of Adeptus Titanicus. The response on our Forge World Facebook page has been immense, with thousands of you expressing your excitement, and many of you asking whether you’ll be able to get the new weapon options separately.

Well, we’ve heard your voices and, having incanted the litanies of swift delivery, we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.

HUZZAR!

So now to resume insane purchasing rates of mighty warlord titans! Reward our benevolent servants and manufacturers of titans we must

Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish. But regardless, we got separate sprues.

...we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.

Well, there you go - balm for all the sore butts out there.

Vintersorg wrote:
Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish.

The cynicism is strong in this one.

 nels1031 wrote:
Looks like they listened and the weapon sprues are coming separately, and new Reaver announced, with separate sprue.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/13/guns-for-your-god-machines/

Sorry if this breaks any minimal content rules, but...LOL
I'm thinking about re-reaading this thread from the release pic of the new Warlord onwards, see what the comments look like in retrospect. But not really.
Great news anyway.

Well Done!

I don't care whether this is a swift rethink due to the complaints from people who thought they'd been told it was going to happen based on what GW suggested (but I admit didn't explicitly state)

or if it's an announcement of something that was going to happen anyway but was planned for later

whatever it means those who don't want to make an entire legion can make do with one or two warlords only, and the game will be stronger for it

 nels1031 wrote:
Looks like they listened and the weapon sprues are coming separately, and new Reaver announced, with separate sprue.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/13/guns-for-your-god-machines/

Huzzah!

All's well that ends well!

And thank you for posting that update!

EDIT:

What's the other weapon on that Reaver sprue?

 Breotan wrote:

...we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.

Well, there you go - balm for all the sore butts out there.

I wonder if there's a version of "have your cake and eat it" that's even stronger in its implication of how supercilious the speaker is being, given that if your immediately following comment that people who feel this was a gimmick(I don't, by the by, just incompetence) are cynics is correct all those "sore butts" are the only reason this is happening at all.

So - you're welcome, enjoy the separate weapon sprue that so many of us registering our dislike of FW's business practices and communication policy has ensured you will have access to.

Well, I was going to buy a single new Mars Warlord, but now I will also add 2-3 weapons frames as well.

 Mysterio wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Looks like they listened and the weapon sprues are coming separately, and new Reaver announced, with separate sprue.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/13/guns-for-your-god-machines/

Huzzah!

All's well that ends well!

And thank you for posting that update!

EDIT:

What's the other weapon on that Reaver sprue?

Volcano cannon, melta cannon, chain fist and carapace turbo laser destructor by the looks of it

From the way that article is worded, the messages FW are postng on their Facebook feed and the fact these are coming "SOMETIME" next year I think it's clear the separate weapon packs aren't something they were going to do until the outrage yesterday.

On the plus side at least they are listening to feedback and have had the sense to react this quick to it. Might just save AT from an early grave.

Vintersorg wrote:
Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish. But regardless, we got separate sprues.

Well, either they

A. planned it all along
or
B. were responsive to customer feedback.

Either is good. There really isn't a negative here.