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I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

I'd rather see ground troops and tanks before Xenos, TBH

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

Because it's a Horus Heresy game. It says so right on the cover, and the game is being built up through supplements centered around battles of loyalists vs. traitors during that conflict.

Xenos Titans will probably happen eventually, but that'll probably be when they have the resources to do *that* right, and that doesn't seem to be now. Just look at the current pace of releases. It took a year to release all the basic weapon options for the original three classes. It's very unlikely that they'll interrupt that (needed) support for current players to build out entirely new factions in the near future.

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

 gorgon wrote:

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

Because it's a Horus Heresy game. It says so right on the cover, and the game is being built up through supplements centered around battles of loyalists vs. traitors during that conflict.

Xenos Titans will probably happen eventually, but that'll probably be when they have the resources to do *that* right, and that doesn't seem to be now. Just look at the current pace of releases. It took a year to release all the basic weapon options for the original three classes. It's very unlikely that they'll interrupt that (needed) support for current players to build out entirely new factions in the near future.

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone on the planet knows it’s purely heresy because the suits didn’t feel like funding them to have even the cosmetic touches to have chaos titans as a faction.

And as I said in the very post you’re replying to, it’ll take more effort to catch even Eldar up if they stall on it.

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

Because it's a Horus Heresy game. It says so right on the cover, and the game is being built up through supplements centered around battles of loyalists vs. traitors during that conflict.

Xenos Titans will probably happen eventually, but that'll probably be when they have the resources to do *that* right, and that doesn't seem to be now. Just look at the current pace of releases. It took a year to release all the basic weapon options for the original three classes. It's very unlikely that they'll interrupt that (needed) support for current players to build out entirely new factions in the near future.

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone on the planet knows it’s purely heresy because the suits didn’t feel like funding them to have even the cosmetic touches to have chaos titans as a faction.

And as I said in the very post you’re replying to, it’ll take more effort to catch even Eldar up if they stall on it.

I definitely don't know that. And the point about Eldar is moot.

JWBS wrote:
I definitely don't know that.

Do you have any particular reason for playing dumb or is it just contrarianism? If they had an actual artistic reason for it being in the heresy setting as a deliberate creative choice there would be visual differences between imperial and chaos titans more sophisticated than eye logos on the shoulderpads.

changemod wrote:

JWBS wrote:
I definitely don't know that.

Do you have any particular reason for playing dumb or is it just contrarianism? If they had an actual artistic reason for it being in the heresy setting as a deliberate creative choice there would be visual differences between imperial and chaos titans more sophisticated than eye logos on the shoulderpads.

I suppose I'm just not as omniscient as yourself Sir. My sincere apologies.

 gorgon wrote:

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

Because it's a Horus Heresy game. It says so right on the cover, and the game is being built up through supplements centered around battles of loyalists vs. traitors during that conflict.

Xenos Titans will probably happen eventually, but that'll probably be when they have the resources to do *that* right, and that doesn't seem to be now. Just look at the current pace of releases. It took a year to release all the basic weapon options for the original three classes. It's very unlikely that they'll interrupt that (needed) support for current players to build out entirely new factions in the near future.

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

Mind you previous release pace isn't true account. It's this and next year showing more of. All those weapons were commissioned and worked before AT came on sale and thus needed to be spread to have some new stuff coming rather than have all out at once. Once AT proved to be seller they hired more staff to work on specifically AT but it has taken over a year from green light to new releases. You can hire new guys to produce new stuff but it won't affect release schedule already set up.

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

Because it's a Horus Heresy game. It says so right on the cover, and the game is being built up through supplements centered around battles of loyalists vs. traitors during that conflict.

Xenos Titans will probably happen eventually, but that'll probably be when they have the resources to do *that* right, and that doesn't seem to be now. Just look at the current pace of releases. It took a year to release all the basic weapon options for the original three classes. It's very unlikely that they'll interrupt that (needed) support for current players to build out entirely new factions in the near future.

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone on the planet knows it’s purely heresy because the suits didn’t feel like funding them to have even the cosmetic touches to have chaos titans as a faction.

And as I said in the very post you’re replying to, it’ll take more effort to catch even Eldar up if they stall on it.

AT wasn't intended to have plastic Titans until the interest seemed far stronger than expected. That's why it was so delayed. So those dastardly 'suits' actually greenlit the plastic sprues that we got. Regardless, yes, it's a specialist game with a limited scope.

The fault must be mine for not understanding why someone is upset that a game is exactly what it says it is on the box.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

Mind you previous release pace isn't true account. It's this and next year showing more of. All those weapons were commissioned and worked before AT came on sale and thus needed to be spread to have some new stuff coming rather than have all out at once. Once AT proved to be seller they hired more staff to work on specifically AT but it has taken over a year from green light to new releases. You can hire new guys to produce new stuff but it won't affect release schedule already set up.

That's fair, but we'll probably see, what, one more new Titan class this year? Not counting corrupted Titans, which seem to be coming with the Kado book. They aren't about to wrap up the Horus Heresy in the next 12 months.

 gorgon wrote:


The fault must be mine for not understanding why someone is upset that a game is exactly what it says it is on the box.

Personally I don't try to understand it. It does irritate me somewhat though.

Like, why doesn't Necromunda have Eldar Exodites? I really don't want to hear that expressed, ad nauseam, in the Necromunda thread k thx.

tneva82 wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Only thing in AT that's really HH is fluff. You can release 100% compatible supplement with new rules for xenos and it works fine. Stuff in AT is still usable even in 40k. Warlord is warlord whether it's 30k or 40k.

Adding xenos is just adding new rules for xenos titans and additional fluff. No need for different game.

Well, of course the fluff is the only difference but its the setting of the game nonetheless, and the product range has been designed around loyalists and traitors - the model kits are designed to accomodate both, to the point where one has a lot of left over pieces. At this stage - over a year from its initial release - I doubt AT was designed to be anything more than a game of Loyalists and Traiters.

That said, the core rule book does mention a conflict involving super heavies and interference from Eldar titans...

Eeh there's nothing in at that prevents expansions elsewhere. Spare parts? What does that mattter? Same titans can fight 30k and 40k. Part of fluff is lack of new gear. Not just same classes but even literally same titans can fight both era's

It's not even unprecedent that you have same models used in 2 era's with compatible rules...

And de#igner# have never ruled out expansion for xenos in time :f sales warrant it.

You've lost me. I've not suggested that there is anything "preventing" FW from adding xenos, nor disputing that Imperial titans can't fight in 40K.

What I am saying is that Forgeworld may have designed Adeptus Titanicus to only gauge interest in epic-scale games and to cater for the "Titan owners club" who are mostly Imperial & Chaos titan enthusiasts. Being able to squeeze two factions out of one kit might be how they intend to keep the game managable, not only for kits but also rules.

And it doesn't matter that there are spare parts in a kit, merely emphasising the effort they are taking to produce two factions out of one kit.

Its not only xenos that players are asking for but also super heavies and even infantry. Not only may the writers of the story start to get headaches, but also the game designers. Including just the Knights has had mixed reception where even the design team felt divided on their function in the game. Also some xenos factions don't field enough heavy weaponary nor armour to compete at the titan level.

And as you say - supplements would be required to detail how xenos armies are fielded. The core rule book comes with rules for fielding imperial maniples and at least includes the Knights as support, so starting out one either takes up an imperial titan maniple with optional knight support, or has to purchase another book in addition to their models.

Like predicting a second titanicus-scale game in 2019(even suggesting an air combat game), and that the next titan would be the Warbringer, I'm starting to get the gut feeling that a new game would be the right way for xenos and super heavies to make their debut.

tneva82 wrote:
And frankly they will release xenos first. Xenos brings in lot more potential customers than alternative armor plates.

I am hoping the game stays in the Heresy. I don't really want to see Xenos titans.

However, to be fair to everyone, I hope at the very least they keep a healthy rules set for HH games so that if Xenos titans come out, I can play against other Imperial/Chaos instead.

If 40k has shown us anything it's that alternative armour plates will bring in far more potential customers than aliens.

 Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And frankly they will release xenos first. Xenos brings in lot more potential customers than alternative armor plates.

I am hoping the game stays in the Heresy. I don't really want to see Xenos titans.

However, to be fair to everyone, I hope at the very least they keep a healthy rules set for HH games so that if Xenos titans come out, I can play against other Imperial/Chaos instead.

All that draining nonsense aside, I would jump for joy if it happened. Gargants are funny as hell and Wraithknights and Phantoms are beautiful models.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And frankly they will release xenos first. Xenos brings in lot more potential customers than alternative armor plates.

I am hoping the game stays in the Heresy. I don't really want to see Xenos titans.

However, to be fair to everyone, I hope at the very least they keep a healthy rules set for HH games so that if Xenos titans come out, I can play against other Imperial/Chaos instead.

All that draining nonsense aside, I would jump for joy if it happened. Gargants are funny as hell and Wraithknights and Phantoms are beautiful models.

I'm not opposed to it happening. I just see it as something done in the context of a new setting after they feel like the HH is in a good place. The Beast Arises setting seems obvious...?

Edit: And it's a shame that we're discussing what the game isn't when there's so much good stuff coming with this release, with more cool stuff teased to be coming with future books.

 gorgon wrote:

Edit: And it's a shame that we're discussing what the game isn't when there's so much good stuff coming with this release, with more cool stuff teased to be coming with future books.

Oh hush you, with your swanky Audax and Ursus claws!

At this point I'd be happy if they'd just release the Cerastus upgrade.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And frankly they will release xenos first. Xenos brings in lot more potential customers than alternative armor plates.

I am hoping the game stays in the Heresy. I don't really want to see Xenos titans.

However, to be fair to everyone, I hope at the very least they keep a healthy rules set for HH games so that if Xenos titans come out, I can play against other Imperial/Chaos instead.

All that draining nonsense aside, I would jump for joy if it happened. Gargants are funny as hell and Wraithknights and Phantoms are beautiful models.

My fear with regards to Xenos titans is that they will destabilize the game. Our local group all is in agreement that AT is the most balanced and fair game GW has ever produced.

All depends on the rules.

Typically, Gargants are kind of low powered compared to others, but are incredibly hard to take down. They’re attrition brawlers.

Eldar Titans are the opposite. Far more precise, with better, more accurate weapons. But fall over if you fart in their general direction.

Scope of the game allows for that. Just need to get it right in the mix.

 Togusa wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And frankly they will release xenos first. Xenos brings in lot more potential customers than alternative armor plates.

I am hoping the game stays in the Heresy. I don't really want to see Xenos titans.

However, to be fair to everyone, I hope at the very least they keep a healthy rules set for HH games so that if Xenos titans come out, I can play against other Imperial/Chaos instead.

All that draining nonsense aside, I would jump for joy if it happened. Gargants are funny as hell and Wraithknights and Phantoms are beautiful models.

My fear with regards to Xenos titans is that they will destabilize the game. Our local group all is in agreement that AT is the most balanced and fair game GW has ever produced.

Chess style mirror-matches are easier to balance, yes. But generally people want more out of wargames.
It'd be a shame to toss out years of work on the setting, models and background because its easier not to do Xenos.

People are worried enough about that idea in 40k without setting a precedent.

A lot of the design choice questions have been answered in the Warhammer TV interviews. I don't currently have Twitch Prime so I can't go back and re-watch, but off the top of my head the two more important points were:
-No tanks or infantry for a long time. The focus is on walkers.
-30k was 'chosen' as there's an infinite number of Titan Legions around (but only 18 Marine Legions), as oppose to 40k where only a handful have survived (but there's infinite Marine Chapters).

As fascinating as the HH vs. Xenos design discussion is, it's hardly news or rumors...

I feel like part of why this game works is that it does one thing and does it well. Which is titan vs titan combat. Once you start throwing in flyers, tanks, infantry, god knows what else. It will start to suffer from all the same issues 40k/apocalypse has. Just let Adeptus Titanicus be what it is. I do see the appeal of Eldar titans and stuff. But now that the original rules designer is no longer with the company I worry about future rules installments. A lot of what we are seeing released was all written some time ago.

 schoon wrote:
As fascinating as the HH vs. Xenos design discussion is, it's hardly news or rumors...

Yeah, I got carried away again. My bad.

So looking ahead, there is the Cerastus upgrades and Rapier titans we know about. Sadly there is no HH weekender this year so I guess we'll know about them as they are released.

Unless we get a glimpse at the upcoming tournament event, when's the next show where we get to look ahead?

Adepticon in March is the next big event, but last year's didn't have any AT content. That could just be because they had less of it ready though..

Warhammer Fest on May 2nd is likely to have AT stuff, last year that's where they unveiled the Acastus Knights.

Edit: they might just do AT model previews through that monthly Engine Kill article that was first posted last week

We should be getting more frequent coverage on Warhammer Community also.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Edit: And it's a shame that we're discussing what the game isn't when there's so much good stuff coming with this release, with more cool stuff teased to be coming with future books.

Oh hush you, with your swanky Audax and Ursus claws!

At this point I'd be happy if they'd just release the Cerastus upgrade.

This book is definitely giving me a lot of new toys to play with. The Canis maniple is very cool...it's kinda/sorta Genestealer Cult ambush for AT! What could be more up my alley?!?

Although the Lupercal maniple is still really good, and -- depending on the exact rules for the Ursus Claws -- *could* be the better choice if you want to go Titan topplin'. Squadron shenanigans plus Lupercal coordinated strikes are no joke. It depends on whether the UC roll versus scale is still considered an Armor roll and benefits from those modifiers or not. I'm guessing not, but we'll see. Just a few more days now...

JWBS wrote:

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

changemod wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for xenos Titans in AT, though. They're clearly going to exhaust the HH material first. And for that setting, they have many more Titan chassis on the way, including more base Titans, corrupted Titan options/chassis, presumably more Ordo Sinister Titans, etc. We'll probably also see more terrain.

And that will be on a SG cycle, not a core game release rate. So maybe in 2023?

Why would you want to come up with a bunch of obscure niche titans before even starting on a second faction that will already be well behind in predesigned titans even before you start coming up with new stuff?

Because it's a Horus Heresy game. It says so right on the cover, and the game is being built up through supplements centered around battles of loyalists vs. traitors during that conflict.

Xenos Titans will probably happen eventually, but that'll probably be when they have the resources to do *that* right, and that doesn't seem to be now. Just look at the current pace of releases. It took a year to release all the basic weapon options for the original three classes. It's very unlikely that they'll interrupt that (needed) support for current players to build out entirely new factions in the near future.

Note that xenos factions won't be just one titan strong. Doing xenos right will likely require multiple scales of Titan during the launch phase, like with the original AT launch. It'd be like a relaunch of the game, and that may make sense at a certain point. But soon? Just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone on the planet knows it’s purely heresy because the suits didn’t feel like funding them to have even the cosmetic touches to have chaos titans as a faction.

And as I said in the very post you’re replying to, it’ll take more effort to catch even Eldar up if they stall on it.

I definitely don't know that. And the point about Eldar is moot.

I also didn't know this.

AT was a big gamble for GW - don't forget 6mm games typically don't sell well and outside of historical games they sell even worse - most of the scifi and fantasy 6mm-15mm companies are one or two people with a shed as a side business selling models. There's a tiny few making a business (more since KS) but its still a niche.

Plus the base cost for a titan was £65 for one model. That's a lot of money for one model. Now you might say "but GW has knights codex" however the knights were built off the back of steadily increasing sales from main armies that used the same models as units rather than straight out the box being knights that could only be used in the knights game.


AT was going to launch with the most expensive single model to start; the most expensive single starter box and in a scale that historically hasn't been that strong for a very long time. A lot of risks. I think that's why they got away with more things like magnet slots in the design; I think its why they were smarter with the moulds and sprue design to split them up into components that allowed for efficient expansion and diversity whilst reducing costs for gamers and GW itself.

At was a gamble for GW that paid off in a big way. Considering its solid sales with just Imperial Titans you can bet that GW is now looking at additional resources to flesh it out to support more chaos and such. I don't think they'll want to gamble further keeping it stuck to purely mirror-armies opposing each other forever. Such a move can stall a games popularity and stifle its growth.


Remember when Xenos come along you'll get increased Imperial sales too. From those who come into the game starting Xenos who move sideways to Imperial armies; from those who want to play a more diverse game than just mirror armies opposing each other and from players now expanding their army to deal with the "xenos threat" with renewed interest. Perhaps even buying new models to build into different configurations (even with magnets many will still glue the arms in) to deal with a new type of opponent that plays differently.

 Thargrim wrote:
I feel like part of why this game works is that it does one thing and does it well. Which is titan vs titan combat. Once you start throwing in flyers, tanks, infantry, god knows what else. It will start to suffer from all the same issues 40k/apocalypse has. Just let Adeptus Titanicus be what it is. I do see the appeal of Eldar titans and stuff. But now that the original rules designer is no longer with the company I worry about future rules installments. A lot of what we are seeing released was all written some time ago.

Put all of the ground troops, flyers and tanks in a stand alone boxed game, which has compatibility with AT. Maybe call it something like "Space Marine"?