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 DarknessEternal wrote:

mmimzie wrote:

Basicly you use soul burst near the rnd of a combat to yurn it from 2 combats into 5 pr 6 multi combsts and instantly resolve.

Ah, so you want Eldar Unit A in assault with Enemy Unit X, A kills X, then Eldar Unit B charges Enemy Unit Y via soulburst.

Your contention is that presuming that Y causes no casualties at subsequent initiative steps, it will have to make morale tests as it has lost the combat as party to the losing side of a multiple unit assault. Is that what you're getting at?

I'm saying eldar unit A is in combat with X & Y, and kills X. Eldar unit B then soulburst multi Charging unit X & Z. Then combat continues with units A/B/X/Z from the end of that inative step. Then goes to combat resolution for the combined combat for units A +B Vs X +Z. X & Z should then lose combat and A & B should be able to sweeping advance. With the possibility that units Z and B might possibly never get a chance to attack.

Edit additional thought on multiple charges in a turn: (seperate from above topic)

The consolidation step says your no longer locked in combat as far as i see it. Which would mean you can't soul burst, as soul burst happens immediately and takes priority over everything else in the turn order, but then after consolidation you are now out of combat despite it not being the end of the assault phase. This is important, as otherwise you could use your Hit&Run rule even after completely destroying an enemy unit, as per the rules of hit & run which says after your combat if your still locked in combat then you may test to Hit & Run.

SO one of two things are true:

Either A. The consolidation wording is enough to say you are now no longer stuck in combat, and are thus free to be soul bursted (from other combats or unit destructions near by).

or B. Any assault phase you start locked in combat you may also Hit & run on top of your consolidation. In which case the HIt & run rules stating you "break away from combat" in which case you are out of combat reguardless and then may again soul burst.

I'd rule for A because it seems far less ridiculous.

 luke1705 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Tautastic wrote:
If I get to pick my psychic powers it would probable all in Revenant. It will be the Nova, soulburst, and Assault X because those will be good against big tarpit blobs. Also the primera to snipe a sarge or apoth even though they can LOS which is only 50/50.

Is this for the Yncarne only?? Because....fortune...invis...forewarning.....eldritch storm isn't even bad on a stone farseer (who IMO should ALWAYS be your warlord). Word of the phoenix is probably in my top 3 though. Heck, with re-rolls, I'll grab a vortex of doom every so often since it's only WC 2 and easier to cast with Runes of the Farseer.

Its #2 on the Ynnari Warlord Traits table.

No, I meant his selection of the powers. Because why would you use the powers he listed for a farseer if you get to pick? So many other better powers.

I know what you meant, I was pointing out to where you get the ability to choose your psychic powers, which is what you seemed to be asking, and it's from that warlord trait.

The main point of that "what Yncarne powers would you pick?" exercise is to show that the Revenant table isn't too bad. Most would rather draw from it than Santic, anyway.

New tactic to try:

Have your Ynnari units in clusters or 3+ units. This could be bikes on any kind, lone Khymera, what ever. Make sure that in each cluster you have shooting units and CC units.

When several enemies are close and destroy 1 unit in your cluster, Soulburst with 1 unit and charge with the other (since this tactic assumes Reborn host has 7+ units).
It is important to charge a unit that has not shot yet, as you can tie them up in their own phase to prevent them from shooting, or charge a Deathstar with an expendable unit of yours.

Example 1:
Your cluster is 2x 3 Scatterbikes and 2x 1 Khymera, the Khymera are at least 3" in front of the bikes with the board edge behind the bikes
The enemy is a Skyhammer with 2x Assault Marined and 2x Devs.
1 Dev unit shoots a Bike unit, and kills it, triggering a Soulburst, so the other bike unit shoots at the Assault Marines, killing a few.
Your second Soulburst is 1 Khymera that declares an assault on the Dev unit that has yet to fire. They overwatch and kill that Khymera, triggering yet another Soulburst, which your other Khymera uses to charge the same Devs, who have already Overwtached this turn.
Now the Devs are locked in combat and cannot shoot in this turn.

Example 2:
Same cluster
Enemy has a huge Deathstar ready to charge one of your units, then makes the mistake of shooting and killing a unit near the unit he want to charge. You Soulburst to charge him first with 1 Khymera.
In his Charge sub-phase, the Deathstar is locked in combat and cannot charge its intended target, buying you a turn to move away and shoot the piss out of it.

You can use small CC units like this to create a buffer zone in which enemies cannot get too close to your units (possibly deniying charges or putting short range weapon out of range) and if they enemy decides to actually shoot at these small units, you get to Soulburst shoot him in the face.

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 lambsandlions wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

The Yncarne is very good, it has multi rolls thats why it isnt a amazing Psyker or Melee Monster, it does both well, it stays alive extremely easily is extremely moble.

That is my point. If someone tries to play him as a combat beast, like a bloodthirster, they will find the yncarne doesn't dish out enough close combat wounds and will spend several rounds locked in combat. Likewise if you try to play him as a master psyker, like a fate weaver, you will find his powers offer not enough support and not enough destructive power.

What yncarne has is survivability and an amazing movement ability. He needs to be played like a surgical scalpal not a hammer. It is not about him "earning back his points" but rather ensuring denies the opponent the ability to score. He needs to be used to hold objective, counter a push and lock up units long enough for your other units to get there and then he needs to pop out and be where he is needed.

You are correct. The basic Idea of how to use Yncarne is to move him to completely destroyed units near the enemy at the end of the opponents turn - then he is free to charge in your turn. He should then attempt to destroy something easy (like a rhino) then assault and infantry unit with his soulburst - get locked in combat and then repeat the process until later in the game when units are more spread out. Then he should look to deploy near isolated units. He can't sustain a huge amount of fire.

I think the best value that Yncarne provides is the ability to retaliate to aplha strikes. Drop pod unit engages something and destroys it - Yncarne is right there to counter charge no questions asked. This allows the rest of your army to focus on what matters - taking out key targets and grabbing objectives. Not being bogged down cleaning up suicide units. He also allows a lot of freedom of deployment. Knowing what you are up against Yncarne can allow you to hold key units in reserve and not be worried about being wipped out on turn 1 - this is a huge advantage against drop pod lists - ESP if you bring an autarch.

 Xenomancers wrote:
He should then attempt to destroy something easy (like a rhino) then assault and infantry unit with his soulburst -

That would only work if he destroyed the Rhino via psychic power.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
He should then attempt to destroy something easy (like a rhino) then assault and infantry unit with his soulburst -

That would only work if he destroyed the Rhino via psychic power.

He could kill the transport in assault and charge the infantry squad to just get locked and safe from shooting. Nothing wrong with that! If he charges a Transport in terrain that has 1 HP (or get lucky vs open topped), could he kill it with HoW and then charge the infantry to attack at Init 1?

You're never locked in combat with vehicles, right? So you could destroy one in melee and soulburst after.

fresus wrote:
You're never locked in combat with vehicles, right? So you could destroy one in melee and soulburst after.

Oh Snap!

That certain puts a new spin on which WK you take. Cannons to shoot several units, then charge a vehicle (that you shot with a shoulder gun) to Soulburst and shoot again
Or Sword and board to charge a vehicle, kill it with his attacks, then Soulburst into another unit and Stomp them

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Silly question, but can Ynnari armies/CAD take a Scathach WK? I haven't seen that particular model's rules, so I don't know if it just says anyone that can take a WK can choose that one instead... or what.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Silly question, but can Ynnari armies/CAD take a Scathach WK? I haven't seen that particular model's rules, so I don't know if it just says anyone that can take a WK can choose that one instead... or what.

It is not listed under the Ynnari selections in the Gathering Storm 2 book.

The IA2nd edition book says it can be selected as a LOW choice for a CWE CAD as well as a Wraith Construct formation (not included in the Reborn Host), or a Wraith Host formation (which is included in the Reborn Host).

So, based on this I think you'd need to run a wraithhost formation under the reborn Host or run it as a LOW choice in an allied CWE CAD.

The Skathach WK can be taken either in a CWE CAD or "when constructing a CW Warhost army list" 1 can be a Wraith Construct Auxiliary, or subbed for the WK in a Wraith Host.

So as it stands, you cannot take a Skatach WK in a Reborn Host at all.

 Galef wrote:

fresus wrote:
You're never locked in combat with vehicles, right? So you could destroy one in melee and soulburst after.

Oh Snap!

That certain puts a new spin on which WK you take. Cannons to shoot several units, then charge a vehicle (that you shot with a shoulder gun) to Soulburst and shoot again
Or Sword and board to charge a vehicle, kill it with his attacks, then Soulburst into another unit and Stomp them

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Honest dont feel like the locked in combat thing is a thing. Or atleast it isnt for harliquins and many jet bike units.

Simply put if your counted as locked in combat unit the end of the whole assault phase than that means you can always hit and run as being locked in combat is the ony sipulstion. As hit and run breaks combat you stop being locked in combat.

Its either this or locked in combat stops at the end of each fight sub phase ( IE you do a fight sub phase for every combat your resolve).

Either way RAW Harliquins kinda skirt the licked in combat rule

So question about Troupes. Would it be better to take them in some kind of clown car such as a Starweaver/Raider/Venom or let them run?

From my thoughts about Harlequins, the problem with Ynnari clowns is that they either lose out on the Run + Charge, they get Run + Charge but you lose out on a way to get them a Shadowseer or Inriams Spectre for protection on foot, or you have to field them all in the super big Cegorachs Revenge formation (and then fit in a HQ and two troops for the Reborn Warhost). If you are running them on foot, i'd want to get them the Run + Charge bonus, but also get them a Shadowseer for protection who can also Run + Charge. If you are fielding them without Run + Charge, I think they are better off in Starweavers. But those are my thoughts.

I see what you are saying. I'm just hesitant to run the in the formations simply because of the Voidweaver tax, plus I could use a succubus to put her in one of the Starweavers and have one of the Troupes deep strike close. Of course that is for only one Troupe. But the Run and charge is pretty good too. I'll fiddle around with my list and see what works, especially with only having so many Harliquins at the moment.

mmimzie wrote:


Honest dont feel like the locked in combat thing is a thing. Or atleast it isnt for harliquins and many jet bike units.

Simply put if your counted as locked in combat unit the end of the whole assault phase than that means you can always hit and run as being locked in combat is the ony sipulstion. As hit and run breaks combat you stop being locked in combat.

Its either this or locked in combat stops at the end of each fight sub phase ( IE you do a fight sub phase for every combat your resolve).

Either way RAW Harliquins kinda skirt the licked in combat rule

For what its worth the Warhammer TV streamed games are definitely not treating Ynnari Harlequins as locked in combat at the point that they wipe out the other unit - and are immediately using Soulburst from the destruction of that unit.

Tbh with soulburst if you're running Harlies on foot you don't need run and charge. Though I suppose if you really wanted it you could run the one special troupe from Death Masque, but the run and shoot one would be better with Imriam since you could run them up the field and not waste his gun.

Run and charge is more important for a starweaver troupe at which point just take Jest.

I have a question. How does soul burst work with characters in a unit, and allocation of wounds.

Lets say i have a unit with an IC inside. Now the unit arounf him just lost its final model, but the IC is still there. The wound pool its not finished. What happens first?? Do i get to soul burst before continuing allocating woulds, as soul hurst actions are immediate??

I ask because if you have an IC in a unit and then soul burst out of line of sight to the enemy weapon then all the rest of the wounds to be allocated would fall off.

Man 40k really hates out of sequence stuff lmao.

So you don't get to Soulburst. The IC doesn't actually go back to being his own unit until the next phase.

Weirdly, the language doing this on page 166 only flows one direction so it's arguably a different story if the IC died and the rest of the unit remained.

Audustum wrote:
So you don't get to Soulburst. The IC doesn't actually go back to being his own unit until the next phase.

Weirdly, the language doing this on page 166 only flows one direction so it's arguably a different story if the IC died and the rest of the unit remained.

I don't believe that's the case. The way I read it (and someone else correct me if this is not the case) is basically this: can your opponent claim a kill point? If so, you can Soulburst. If not, you can't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

happy_inquisitor wrote:


For what its worth the Warhammer TV streamed games are definitely not treating Ynnari Harlequins as locked in combat at the point that they wipe out the other unit - and are immediately using Soulburst from the destruction of that unit.

It does seem to be how it would be intended. Hopefully a FAQ is incoming soon since there are more than a few slightly confusing soulburst interactions.

Audustum wrote:
So you don't get to Soulburst. The IC doesn't actually go back to being his own unit until the next phase.

Weirdly, the language doing this on page 166 only flows one direction so it's arguably a different story if the IC died and the rest of the unit remained.

So, then if you have an objective to completely destroy a unit you don't get to score it unless you actually kill the IC attached to the unit as well??

Wouldn't you know it, that exact rules question is being discussed in YMDC.

For the curious, it comes down to a timing issue - things like Kill Points and Objectives can still apply, because the wording making the IC part of a unit "for all purposes" has an endpoint in time, while Soulburst seems to check for unit destruction immediately (i.e. before the IC/unit combo become two separate units again).

Oh by the way, played a double Reborn Warhost last night at 1850 points vs a DA player. He was using be Lion's Blade strike force with a ton of grav and four Ravenwing attack squadrons. Was a very glass cannon list (as was mine) and I got first turn but his attack squadrons scouted forward because he got +1 to seize. Rolled a four. PHEW.

My list was:

Farseer (jetbike, stone, WL)
Farseer (jetbike)

Shadowseer
10 Wraithguard (cannons)

7 Scatbikes
3 Scatbikes

1 Khymera
1 Khymera

Wraithknight (cannons)

Autarch
Archon (WWP)

3 Scatbikes
3 Jetbikes (no upgrades)

5 warp spiders (aspect host)
5 warp spiders (aspect host)
5 warp spiders (aspect host)

Was an utter annihilation, especially after my shadowseer got veil and invis, my Farseer warlord got to pick his powers and my second Farseer got fortune all on his own.

Thoughts on the game :

1) It's sometimes tricky to make sure that the last unit that can shoot is the one that triggers the soulburst, since you can't soulburst to shoot and then shoot again later in the phase.

2) Positioning is paramount but good positioning is definitely rewarded in spades.

3) The army that I have at least is sort of glass cannon, but that's ok since when stuff dies, we hit back hard. As such, I'm not as worried about being alpha struck.

4) I think the Reborn Warhost will wind up being better than the Ulthwe Strike force.

5) If your army was moderately competitive before, this rule set pushes it to be even closer to top tier competitive. Like GSC, beware who you play against, as it can completely crush less competitive armies.

6) Still waiting to figure out how combat interacts with the Warhost, as I really like the idea of the stabby WK, but if you're locked in combat and can't soulburst from the unit you killed in assault, then I can't see it being worthwhile, and even then the normal WK might be better (let alone either of the Forge World variants. RIP Skathach)

@ luke

Looking at your list I have to ask how the khymera preformed. Were they worth the 10 points? Also was 10 wraith guard worth it or overkill? It sounds like you got some good rolls for your psykers, what do you generally try to get with each?

 lambsandlions wrote:
@ luke

Looking at your list I have to ask how the khymera preformed. Were they worth the 10 points? Also was 10 wraith guard worth it or overkill? It sounds like you got some good rolls for your psykers, what do you generally try to get with each?

They are beasts that if they die its a free soulburst action they can be used to charge units that havent shot yet in your opponents turns etc..

They can be very good for the 10pts they cost.

Now 10 Wraithguard IMO is completely over kill

The best use of Khymera is to soulburst charge a deathstar in the opponents. Now when they go to charge, they are locked with a 10pt sacrifice. When they kill it, and they absolutely will, a unit within 7" can soulburst to shoot the deathstar.

Works just as well for smaller melee units that are trying to charge bikes or spiders.

 lambsandlions wrote:
@ luke

Looking at your list I have to ask how the khymera preformed. Were they worth the 10 points? Also was 10 wraith guard worth it or overkill? It sounds like you got some good rolls for your psykers, what do you generally try to get with each?

They did their jobs. Can always not deploy them if you think it makes the difference for first blood. One thing I found out is that overwatch is optional, so make sure that you are prepared for your khymera to actually make it into combat to die when you're taking into account the 7". 10 wraithguard is likely overkill but I put different amounts of IC in there to make it more of a deathstar. Guaranteed veil means if you can reliably shoot me, I can shoot you. I can position the archon and the autarch to get more sfd attacks, and I'll tell you - guide helps with wraithguard but if you don't go for it, 10 shots starts seeming like a lot less than it is. Have gotten 6 or less hits and a 1 on the d table a ton. If you're up against a knight and want to reliably 6 it out, you need more than just 5. So I guess it depends what you want to use them for and if you want them to be more of a suicide unit.

Powers are pretty situational, but generally I will do the shadowseer first, almost always swapping out for veil and then a roll on telepathy. Shrouding is the only power other than invis that I won't trade for shriek. My warlord farseer will also know by this point if he's picking his powers or not. Usually invis is a priority even if I get it on the farseer (if I'm picking). If I haven't gotten it yet, I'll roll for invis and usually try for fortune after that. Gets guide along the way. Rolling on div isn't bad either, since 4+ invuln, ignores cover and full BS overwatch are all great for my mini deathstar, but it really is situational for who you're coming up against. If they have no ignores cover and not many assault threats (tyranids I'm looking at you) then telepathy becomes more important because shrouding is spectacular.

The thing about psychic powers is that you can be incredibly flexible, which is why Daemons and now Magnus have done so well. You can tailor to any opponent in the moment. But without knowing the army and the list, it's hard to have fast and solid rules on what is best to go for after invis, really. But my three when I pick are most usually invis, word of the phoenix and fortune. Then on my second farseer I'll grab guide (uneless I get a second fortune) and see what I can hit up on div, typically fishing for 4++ and ignores cover.

For scatbike spam, I don't feel that running a bunch of khymeras would be good since scatbikes would be kept in the back field anyways.

Spider spam and Khymeras would be ideal tho, so the dead khymeras can trigger soul bursts. But losing battle focus kinda suck for spiders...

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
For scatbike spam, I don't feel that running a bunch of khymeras would be good since scatbikes would be kept in the back field anyways.

The thing is, Drop pod spam, GSC ambush, Ravenwing biker scouting forward, and TWC deathstars are a thing in my meta. So staying far away from the enemy is not always easy. By having a few Khymera deployed out just ahead of the Scatterbikes, if prevents such units from getting super close, and provides options to counter the units that do. Like using a Khymera to soulburst charge some Skyhammer Assault marine before they could charge my bikes.

And the best thing about them is letting the opponent know that if they kill the Khymera, 2 of my units get to immediately shoot you. That seems to stop them from giving first blood.

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