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Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

One individual's trash list is another individual's treasure! The problem your comments (@Yoda79 and @blackmage) is that you're attacking @Brymm's list for not being optimized when he never said it was supposed to be optimized. @Brymm said he went 5-0 and both of you attacked that list straight away. If @Brymm had said "I built the the best nurgle list ever and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills" then you could have come out with your views about it not being optimized. Perhaps next time, you might respond more appropriately with questions about how he fared the way he did, and then expand accordingly (e.g. "Hey, congrats, but your second game against Army X is not a typical result when going up against your list. You could make some adjustments to your list to get their outcome more often than not by doing XYZ).

The tactics thread is not meant to only discuss the best list possible. One can also discuss the tactical merits of building a list around a particular unit or strategy and then going for the optimization of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++

The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/10/17 21:12:23


We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Why the pox is my question. What role and what are they strat wise gonna do?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 mokoshkana wrote:
One individual's trash list is another individual's treasure! The problem your comments (@Yoda79 and @blackmage) is that you're attacking @Brymm's list for not being optimized when he never said it was supposed to be optimized. @Brymm said he went 5-0 and both of you attacked that list straight away. If @Brymm had said "I built the the best nurgle list ever and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills" then you could have come out with your views about it not being optimized. Perhaps next time, you might respond more appropriately with questions about how he fared the way he did, and then expand accordingly (e.g. "Hey, congrats, but your second game against Army X is not a typical result when going up against your list. You could make some adjustments to your list to get their outcome more often than not by doing XYZ).

The tactics thread is not meant to only discuss the best list possible. One can also discuss the tactical merits of building a list around a particular unit or strategy and then going for the optimization of that.


I think the key problem I have here is the assumption that it is wrong to attack someone’s list on a tactics forum. You are equating Blackmage’s attack’s of Brymm list to a personal attack. Now outside of tactical forum you might have a point, but since Byrmm posted the list and his 5-0 record here I have to suspect he wanted to display the tactical merit of his list. Blackmage attacked this merit, which I believe isn’t an unfair response. The key here is Blackmage attacked Brymm’s idea not Brymm himself. If Byrmm didn’t want to get critiques for his list being un-optimal then he should have posted it in the lists section with a title like, “2000 point, semi competive Nurgle list.” Byrmm doesn’t have to say “I built the best Nurgle list every and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills.” to signel that he believes his list is top tier. Him posting his 5-0 record with the list is enough in my mind. You can disagree with Blackmage and Yoda’s assessment that it isn’t a competive list, but I don’t think resorting to the personal attacks like Niiru is ever a good answer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/17 21:48:05


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I appreciate all of the conversation related to the list. It takes a lot to offend me and the opinions of folks on a Warhammer internet forum aren't going to ruffle my feathers.

About lists in the tactics thread: The list is what I designed to use at the event. It had a purpose. Each model and unit had a purpose. I know the purpose and its why I put them in the list. It would be like making a computer or designing a car: I wouldn't just add random parts or buttons. I wouldn't add buttons that didn't have a purpose. So this army had levers and buttons I could press and pull that would accomplish specific goals. I attempted to use those buttons and levers as I had intended in each game to a specific outcome. That worked out for me in each game and in the event over all. There could have been times that the goals weren't accomplished and I would have lost. But I didn't.
I didn't have infinite resources or time either. Also, there are self imposed restraints: I wanted to use pure Death Guard. I wanted to use Plague Marines. Other players may have the exact restraints and other players may have none. But that isn't even relevant to a tactics discussion.

The post and discussion about the list and the event itself in this particular forum was meant to discuss tactics. If another player comes on here and reads about my list and how I played it and how the event went and LOVES Plague Marines, they might get inspired to try it out themselves. Or if someone was on the fence about using PBCs or Bloat Drones, maybe this could help them decide. Or if someone wants to use Morty in a pure Death Guard list, this might give them some ideas. Or if someone just wants to win more games playing pure Death Guard, maybe this could help with that too.

One other thing I wanted to say is that those who say the list isn't "optimized," in which way to do you mean that? Are you talking points efficiency? Are you suggesting that there is different or better units to fill a particular role? Are you saying that models A and B and C are not good? In all seriousness, what does that mean? The internet is a strange place and hobby forums stranger still. There is a bizarre amount of hostility about a game involving toy soldiers, an intense amount of gate keeping and a heaping helping of group think about what is "good" or "bad" when it comes to playing this game.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

COLD CASH wrote:
Why the pox is my question. What role and what are they strat wise gonna do?
I see the smaller units as objective grabbers, while the larger unit moves forward to wreak havoc in later turns or grab objectives on the other side of the board. I like plague marines, but I find that they die too quickly as they are a priority target, while the poxwalkers aren't really that. Even at two bigger units, the same mentality would apply. The other bonus is that they ignore morale, so every last one has to be killed.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Niiru wrote:
Warhammer 40,000 - We agree with Chris and Dave on this - that relic would indeed effect this Warlord Trait. That's certainly how we play it here in the office!



Though I'm not sure why there is an argument on this... the relic affects all auras, the trait is an aura. Give the relic to your warlord, profit.

Anyone arguing against this is ... I mean I'd say they're rules-lawyering, but really they're just making stuff up.


It's an argument that can go both ways. The wording for the relic is that it affects auras on that units datasheet.

Warlord traits and powers are not on the datasheet so some will argue that RAW the relic doesn't increase the range.

If it had said that it just increases all aura's by 3" it would be less of an issue for some. Sadly a Facebook post isn't "official" for some and unless it's in a published FAQ/Errata they will argue all day on it. For the record, I think the intent was for it to effect all auras (as confirmed by the team on FB) and my group plays it as such as well.


"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

 mokoshkana wrote:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++


The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


What psychic powers is Morty bringing? Might be worth dropping the extra gauntlet for another Poxwalker - they’re going to draw most of the small arms fire and T4 5+++ is not going to last that long, and the Deathshroud are very unlikely to do much other than tank.

Not sure you’ve actually got enough Poxwalkers to justify Typhus. I’d want at least one proper horde.

   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight




Las Vegas, NV

I'm returning to 40k after a hiatus, dumped my Space Wolves and their false emperor, will be playing Death Guard. I'm not keen on playing poxwalkers and my question is-how screwed am I without them? My list consists of a battalion with 2 PM squads w/ blight launchers, 1 PM squad equipped for melee (in a Rhino), 3 Blightspawn (Rhino), Tallyman, 2 Plaguecrawlers, Bloat-Drone outriders, Nurgle Prince, Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Malignant Caster. I won't be using this as a competitive list but winning is better than losing. Mortarion will be added with bodyguards when I'm comfortable with this "starter" list. I do own poxwalkers but in every wargame I've ever played I avoided the most weenie units. Does no poxwalkers = super bad DG list?

edits: late night posting

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/18 07:29:23


What's the matter, kid? Don't you like clowns? 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 mokoshkana wrote:
One individual's trash list is another individual's treasure! The problem your comments (@Yoda79 and @blackmage) is that you're attacking @Brymm's list for not being optimized when he never said it was supposed to be optimized. @Brymm said he went 5-0 and both of you attacked that list straight away. If @Brymm had said "I built the the best nurgle list ever and went 5-0 because of my superior list building skills" then you could have come out with your views about it not being optimized. Perhaps next time, you might respond more appropriately with questions about how he fared the way he did, and then expand accordingly (e.g. "Hey, congrats, but your second game against Army X is not a typical result when going up against your list. You could make some adjustments to your list to get their outcome more often than not by doing XYZ).

The tactics thread is not meant to only discuss the best list possible. One can also discuss the tactical merits of building a list around a particular unit or strategy and then going for the optimization of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++

The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


those were my ONLY 2 comments about brymm list

i meant, usually with that kind of list (plague marines, Mortarion that are sub par right now), in competitive is hard get 5-0 so i was wondering that's all.

uhmm going 5-0 with that list means or you were very lucky with parings ur a top player


i see nothing offensive or sort of attacking, i just wondered how he did 5-0 bacause in my experience (and i play regularly in ETC) that list should have tons of issues pulling a victory, nothing more nothing less than this, then if pointing out "list weakness" is considered at attack, well i can do nothing about it wasn't my intention, btw i will stop this, i have my opinion and i will keep thx for reading.

3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Lupus Mortem wrote:
I'm returning to 40k after a hiatus, dumped my Space Wolves and their false emperor, will be playing Death Guard. I'm not keen on playing poxwalkers and my question is-how screwed am I without them? My list consists of a battalion with 2 PM squads w/ blight launchers, 1 PM squad equipped for melee (in a Rhino), 3 Blightspawn (Rhino), Tallyman, 2 Plaguecrawlers, Bloat-Drone outriders, Nurgle Prince, Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, Malignant Caster. I won't be using this as a competitive list but winning is better than losing. Mortarion will be added with bodyguards when I'm comfortable with this "starter" list. I do own poxwalkers but in every wargame I've ever played I avoided the most weenie units. Does no poxwalkers = super bad DG list?

edits: late night posting


Depends on what meta you are playing in. In a less competitive environment plague marines are pretty good and solid troop choice, but if you are playing a very competitive environment.

In general, plague marines are better troops than what most armies have, but they are not cheap enough to compete with cultists or guardsmen.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight




Las Vegas, NV

 Jidmah wrote:


Depends on what meta you are playing in. In a less competitive environment plague marines are pretty good and solid troop choice, but if you are playing a very competitive environment.

In general, plague marines are better troops than what most armies have, but they are not cheap enough to compete with cultists or guardsmen.


That's good to hear. The meta where I live is kind of split between the super competitive guys and everyone else. I really want to play this faction, have started buying minis, didn't know if I was making a mistake or not. Thanks for the feedback.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/18 10:03:46


What's the matter, kid? Don't you like clowns? 
   
Made in us
Furious Fire Dragon




USA

 lindsay40k wrote:
 mokoshkana wrote:
So I'm thinking of taking DG to a tournament in November. Here is what I have so far:

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ HQ +
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, Hellforged sword, Wings
-Daemon Prince of Nurgle: 4. Blades of Putrefaction, Malefic Talons, Wings
-Typhus: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Putrescent Vitality

+ Troops +
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 17x Poxwalker
-Poxwalkers: 10x Poxwalker

+ Elites +
-Deathshroud Terminators: Deathshroud Champion (w/ additional Plaguespurt gauntlets) + 2x normal Deathshroud Terminator

+ Fast Attack +
-Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe
-Myphitic Blight-hauler: Bile spurt, Missile launcher, Multi-melta (Squad of 3)

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Death Guard) ++
+ Lord of War +
Mortarion

++ Total: [103 PL, 1999pts] ++


The Deathshroud terminators would deploy next to mortarian in order to protect him until he can get across the board to wreak havoc. My question is whether I have too much ties up in the HQ slots. Here's what I have to work with additionally:
20x plague marines (2 with plasma, 2 blight launchers, and 2 with power fist and plasma)
Noxious Plaguebringer
Predator with quad Lascannon and havoc launcher
Malignant plaguecaster
LoC

Part of me thinks it could be beneficial to drop a Prince for a the noxious plaguebringer, make two bigger pox squads, and add a plague marine squad. Thoughts?


What psychic powers is Morty bringing? Might be worth dropping the extra gauntlet for another Poxwalker - they’re going to draw most of the small arms fire and T4 5+++ is not going to last that long, and the Deathshroud are very unlikely to do much other than tank.

Not sure you’ve actually got enough Poxwalkers to justify Typhus. I’d want at least one proper horde.
In a three HQ setup, Mortarion would get Blades of Putrification, Miasma of Pestilence, and Gift of Contagion. Some other options would be to drop the bloat drone or drop one blight hauler (and split the other two up to form an Outrider Detachment).

Additionally I have 15 cultists and a Sorcerer in terminator armor that could be used for cheekiness to get warptime, but they don't match my paint scheme. I bought a fully painted execution force a while back, and the painting is good, but the theme is red as opposed to my white DG theme.

We mortals are but shadows and dust...
6k
:harlequin: 2k
2k
2k 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

nfe wrote:
Any tips on dealing with stacked Alaitoc hit modifiers? A list full of supersonic flyers plus all the psychic powers and stratagems absolutely destroyed my ability to hit yesterday. 3xPBC in reroll aura were utterly useless, a knight managed to take two wounds off a fire prism before it got destroyed and even plaguespitters didn't achieve much since it's so easy for Eldar to stay out of range of them.

The biggest problem was fire prisms which are faster than any of our vehicles and have 60" ranges. Plaguespitters do a job against Hemlocks' (if you screen Hemlocks logical targets with FBDs or PBCs but that's rather limiting their effectiveness) but I'm stumped on a hard counter to FP spam?

Do I chuck some contemptors back in my lists for 2+ hits and lots of dice?


EDIT:

My list was

Winged DP (suppurating plate)
Lord (arch-contaminator)
3xPBC (plaguespitters)
3xFBD (plaguespitters)
7 Blightlords (plasma and axes, 1x mace)
Knight (battle cannon and thermal cannon)


Tried reworking this a bit. I'm still not happy and I'd like to juggle things to have a DP for counter charges in an ideal world. Not sold on the cultists (and especially not the poxies but I don't have more cultists and can't proxy at the event that the list is for) but trying to find a way of getting a battalion in whilst keeping the Knight, armigers, leviathan, and PBCs.

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on psychic powers to take. Miasma is a given but I'm not sure what will be best gained otherwise? PV for the poxies I guess.

Battalion
Lord (arch contaminator)
Malignant plaguecaster
10 cultists
10 cultists
10 Poxwalkers
Leviathan (2x butcher array)

Spearhead
Malignant Plaguecaster
3xPBC

Superheavy
Knight (RFBC, Thermal Cannon)
2x Armiger

2000pts. 12CPs.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Lupus Mortem wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:


Depends on what meta you are playing in. In a less competitive environment plague marines are pretty good and solid troop choice, but if you are playing a very competitive environment.

In general, plague marines are better troops than what most armies have, but they are not cheap enough to compete with cultists or guardsmen.


That's good to hear. The meta where I live is kind of split between the super competitive guys and everyone else. I really want to play this faction, have started buying minis, didn't know if I was making a mistake or not. Thanks for the feedback.



There has been a recent tournament winner who used Plague Marines to good effect. They're good troops. Mixing some Plague Marines with Cultists as your troops choice would be a strong option (if you use them appropriately on the table).

Of course some people still claim a 100+ competitor grand tournament isn't a 'competitive environment', but I suspect it's more competitive than your average LFGS.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I'm in a group with very good players, but the list building is very casual. My plague marines have done a way better job at scoring wins than my pox walkers have.

The main reason for me to use poxes is to sit them on objectives and have them rot there, screen entropy cannon PBCs or just to save points to fit more toys in a list with Mortarion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/18 15:48:25


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Bloodthirsty Chaos Knight




Las Vegas, NV

I will pick up some cultists once I find a sufficient quantity at a good price. I'll eventually try the poxwalkers. The PMs look good on paper and are really nice minis. I lean elite in the games I play and that's what my DG are going to be for a few games anyway.

What's the matter, kid? Don't you like clowns? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




To add to the discussion I’ll throw in some thoughts on plagueburst crawlers vs bloat drones. In my opinion, they’re both great. My main list runs 3 plague burst crawlers and 2 drones in it. That being said I think plagueburst crawlers are slightly better. Being T 8 is a big deal, and the 2 extra wounds are extremely good. To that end I think people often are using their crawlers wrong. Based on what i’ve seen in YouTube battle reports, most people prefer to hold their plaguebutst crawlers back and shoot with the mortar. This seems wrong to me. In my mind plagueburst crawlers should should be used to take the center of the board. This way you get more use out of their flamers (the crawlers strongest weapons) and gain board presence. Sure they can get more easily tide up in CC by being more toward, but that problebly means they will have flamed the assualting unit twice and I always keep CC units (drones and a daemon prince) near my crawlers to counter charge, Even if they do get locked in CC, they will at least keep the CC unit distracted for while,not the worst since crawlers are only 140 points.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

Salt donkey wrote:
To add to the discussion I’ll throw in some thoughts on plagueburst crawlers vs bloat drones. In my opinion, they’re both great. My main list runs 3 plague burst crawlers and 2 drones in it. That being said I think plagueburst crawlers are slightly better. Being T 8 is a big deal, and the 2 extra wounds are extremely good. To that end I think people often are using their crawlers wrong. Based on what i’ve seen in YouTube battle reports, most people prefer to hold their plaguebutst crawlers back and shoot with the mortar. This seems wrong to me. In my mind plagueburst crawlers should should be used to take the center of the board. This way you get more use out of their flamers (the crawlers strongest weapons) and gain board presence. Sure they can get more easily tide up in CC by being more toward, but that problebly means they will have flamed the assualting unit twice and I always keep CC units (drones and a daemon prince) near my crawlers to counter charge, Even if they do get locked in CC, they will at least keep the CC unit distracted for while,not the worst since crawlers are only 140 points.


They both have a lot of merits, but there are a lot of factors to put here:

Bloat drones - S6, 10 wounds, T7. They have fly, move faster, and cannot be pinned down. They have the best ranged option in the book, and a way to get there and use it; plus a good CC weapon. Plus they ignore terrain.

PBC's - S7, 12 wounds, T8. They are slower, but have more guns that (situationally) do things. They are much, much, MUCH harder to kill as well. They have no CC weapon, and can get locked down with bad placement.

Now, you need to toss in all the possible buffs you can do; Drones can get things like Virulent Blessing or Blades of Putrefaction and actually do pretty good CC damage. On the flip side, they are only str 6, and unlikely to get any buffs other than a DP. PBC's can make use of things like Poxbringers to become Str 8... and do D2! Str 8 D2 flamers?! yes please.

But it really boils down to your list, what you want to do with it, and how it plays. The way I play, Bloat Drones have done horribly for me; I always lose them early with minimal impact, and they cost more than a PBC. PBC's for me are the bees-knees, I rarely lose them early, they do a ton of damage, and act as a Bulwark for the rest of my list. I always build around them; poxbrikngers and arch contaminator are common in my list to support them. This means I can realiably hurt anything in the game on a 4+, with rerolls... huzzah.

So you can make a case for both.

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 Zid wrote:
Salt donkey wrote:
To add to the discussion I’ll throw in some thoughts on plagueburst crawlers vs bloat drones. In my opinion, they’re both great. My main list runs 3 plague burst crawlers and 2 drones in it. That being said I think plagueburst crawlers are slightly better. Being T 8 is a big deal, and the 2 extra wounds are extremely good. To that end I think people often are using their crawlers wrong. Based on what i’ve seen in YouTube battle reports, most people prefer to hold their plaguebutst crawlers back and shoot with the mortar. This seems wrong to me. In my mind plagueburst crawlers should should be used to take the center of the board. This way you get more use out of their flamers (the crawlers strongest weapons) and gain board presence. Sure they can get more easily tide up in CC by being more toward, but that problebly means they will have flamed the assualting unit twice and I always keep CC units (drones and a daemon prince) near my crawlers to counter charge, Even if they do get locked in CC, they will at least keep the CC unit distracted for while,not the worst since crawlers are only 140 points.


They both have a lot of merits, but there are a lot of factors to put here:

Bloat drones - S6, 10 wounds, T7. They have fly, move faster, and cannot be pinned down. They have the best ranged option in the book, and a way to get there and use it; plus a good CC weapon. Plus they ignore terrain.

PBC's - S7, 12 wounds, T8. They are slower, but have more guns that (situationally) do things. They are much, much, MUCH harder to kill as well. They have no CC weapon, and can get locked down with bad placement.

Now, you need to toss in all the possible buffs you can do; Drones can get things like Virulent Blessing or Blades of Putrefaction and actually do pretty good CC damage. On the flip side, they are only str 6, and unlikely to get any buffs other than a DP. PBC's can make use of things like Poxbringers to become Str 8... and do D2! Str 8 D2 flamers?! yes please.

But it really boils down to your list, what you want to do with it, and how it plays. The way I play, Bloat Drones have done horribly for me; I always lose them early with minimal impact, and they cost more than a PBC. PBC's for me are the bees-knees, I rarely lose them early, they do a ton of damage, and act as a Bulwark for the rest of my list. I always build around them; poxbrikngers and arch contaminator are common in my list to support them. This means I can realiably hurt anything in the game on a 4+, with rerolls... huzzah.

So you can make a case for both.


List will make a big differenc I agree, if you lack super mobile in you list then you’re better off with the drones. That being said it’s pretty easy to get mobile options in the form of PLAGUE drones, morty, thousand son allies, etc. I do like drones with flesh mowers, but that’s a different type of unit then the flamer drones. As far as flamer drones CC ability goes, I have to say it’s problably worth around 5 points. 3 attacks hitting on 4s just isn’t that great. Yeah it can be handy in a pinch, but not something to be relied on. Buffing it sounds like a similar proposition, It’s an option if you need it, but not something you should plan on doing. Overall I just think plagueburst crawlers are too busted to not be used, and the fact you use them in your list over drones is a good indicator of this.
   
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First, this thread has been both a huge help designing my 1st DG list and an enjoyable read to boot. Thanks.

My question concerns anti-tank options. I originally planned on 2 Plagueburst Crawlers in my 2k pure DG non-competitive but hopefully brutal list. Then I kicked around the idea of an Alpha Legion Spearhead detachment with a sorcerer (I could use some Warptime) 2x Havocs, and 1x Obliterators. Now I'm looking at Hellbrutes with twin lascannons, missile launchers, and BS 3+ beating the PBC's in that skill. I'm kind of stuck on what to go with. The local meta is a couple different groups with varied kind of forces, leaning maybe 1/3 pure competitive players. I am taking a Vanguard of 3x Blightspawn (primed & ready to paint, starting on them tonight) but knowing I have strong long-range firepower will make me feel a LOT better those first few games with DG.

So, what are the merits of those 3 anti-tank options and which is better-2 PBC's; Alpha Legion Havocs & Obliterators; Hellbrutes w/ Lascannons/missile launchers?

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 Lupus Mortem wrote:
First, this thread has been both a huge help designing my 1st DG list and an enjoyable read to boot. Thanks.

My question concerns anti-tank options. I originally planned on 2 Plagueburst Crawlers in my 2k pure DG non-competitive but hopefully brutal list. Then I kicked around the idea of an Alpha Legion Spearhead detachment with a sorcerer (I could use some Warptime) 2x Havocs, and 1x Obliterators. Now I'm looking at Hellbrutes with twin lascannons, missile launchers, and BS 3+ beating the PBC's in that skill. I'm kind of stuck on what to go with. The local meta is a couple different groups with varied kind of forces, leaning maybe 1/3 pure competitive players. I am taking a Vanguard of 3x Blightspawn (primed & ready to paint, starting on them tonight) but knowing I have strong long-range firepower will make me feel a LOT better those first few games with DG.

So, what are the merits of those 3 anti-tank options and which is better-2 PBC's; Alpha Legion Havocs & Obliterators; Hellbrutes w/ Lascannons/missile launchers?


Your best bet for the Anti-tank is Havocs and obliterators. PBC's aren't the best AT option because they hit on a 4+ while standing still and take a -1 penalty if they move. Their job is to be a distraction carnifex/Anti-infantry with the plaguespiiters, the few mortar shots that land are just a bonus but not super reliable. Helbrutes are a good option especially in a deathguard army because they benefit from Inexorable Advance, but they are more expensive than havocs/Obliterator. Plus you want to bring a CSM detachment anyways to give you access to warptime/prescience so you might as well.

In regards to your troop choices mentioned above, I would consider CCW cultists. A unit of 40 can be given Blades* and Vitality so they're S4 T4 with a +1 to wound in melee for a total of 80 attacks that are wounding GEQs on a 2+. That's really good for a 4 point unit. You can also hide them with Cloud of Flies or even give them a further +1 to wound with VotLW or give them a -1 to be hit. There are a lot of options. If you run into morale troubles just use 2CP for the auto pass. I'd recommend at least 2 full blobs, it's been very successful for me.

Also, if you take that alpha legion detachment you were considering that will unlock the Tide of Traitors stratagem as well.

*The Blades of Putrefaction spell has two effects; +1 to wound and an additional mortal wound on a wound roll of 7+ if you're attacking with a plague weapon. The first part doesn't require a plague weapon, so your cultists will get the +1 to wound.
   
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Awesome advice, Primortis. I'm going to scour Ebay for a decent deal on Chaos Cultists. The Alpha Legion is in. As far as the stratagems I might not have caught their effectiveness right away on my own. Cheers.

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The anti tank spot has always been tricky for Death Gaurd. In fact I feel if you're running pure DG, options to fulfill that role exclusively don't really fit with how the army operates. Perhaps Helbrutes because they would benefit from the Legion trait and be hitting with Heavy on 3s while moving.
So I guess it really depends how the rest of your army functions. The style of list I run doesn't have any heavy guns sitting back and doesn't really use dedicated anti-tank. I rely on lots of special weapons like Blight Launchers and Plasma paires with heavy autohitting volume from Plaguespitters and devestating close combat from Daemon Princes and Morty. Plus Smites.
I've tried Blight Haulers and did like the option of multiple D6 damage guns, but found Morty to be better for filling other roles.

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 Brymm wrote:
The anti tank spot has always been tricky for Death Gaurd. In fact I feel if you're running pure DG, options to fulfill that role exclusively don't really fit with how the army operates. Perhaps Helbrutes because they would benefit from the Legion trait and be hitting with Heavy on 3s while moving.
So I guess it really depends how the rest of your army functions. The style of list I run doesn't have any heavy guns sitting back and doesn't really use dedicated anti-tank. I rely on lots of special weapons like Blight Launchers and Plasma paires with heavy autohitting volume from Plaguespitters and devestating close combat from Daemon Princes and Morty. Plus Smites.
I've tried Blight Haulers and did like the option of multiple D6 damage guns, but found Morty to be better for filling other roles.


Getting tricky with the list and using lots of special weapons in the place of AT is something I plan on trying after I'm comfortable with everything else. Use of the list will most likely evolve. I picked up Mortarion last weekend and when he's included everything will change. It's going to be a process. DG isn't the mono Space Wolves I played out of the Index, the last army I played.

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 Lupus Mortem wrote:
Awesome advice, Primortis. I'm going to scour Ebay for a decent deal on Chaos Cultists.

Have you considered repurposing Sigmar stuff? If you don’t want the Flamers pushing up the unit cost, and can acquire a load of appropriate pistols, Plague Monks make decent Nurgley cultists. Also, crypt ghouls are pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second Cultist hordes, btw. I think there’s things to be said for gunners as well as stabbers. That 18” double tap...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 03:12:06


   
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 lindsay40k wrote:

Have you considered repurposing Sigmar stuff? If you don’t want the Flamers pushing up the unit cost, and can acquire a load of appropriate pistols, Plague Monks make decent Nurgley cultists. Also, crypt ghouls are pretty cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second Cultist hordes, btw. I think there’s things to be said for gunners as well as stabbers. That 18” double tap...


I've considered it but the Sigmar stuff looks too fantasy for me. Which is fine because they're fantasy. I actually dig the cultists in the 5 mini box. Those gas masks are cool. If I can score some for $10-ish a box I may go that route.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/26 04:23:10


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Regarding long range fire, Forge World dreadnoughts also benefit from being Death Guard. I like running midfield Contemptors or pushing them through someone's face, but you could as well equip them for fire support duty. Leviathans are also pretty tasty, if a bit pricey.

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My ranged at falls on pbcs and a knights detachment. Forgeworld dreads work as well. If you wanna break into csm, oblits work alright as well.

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The main CSM thread is considering Deredeos as more efficient midfield gunners than Leviathans

More PPM than a Helverin but tougher and can benefit from buffs, whereas the latter is more self-sufficient

   
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So Cal

Are we expecting any changes in CA? The knight meta has been pretty brutal for mono DG (even allied DG). I suspect knights will get nerfed a bit which will bring us back up. Best I am hoping for is a decrease in maybe in plague marines? Wishful thinking.

 
   
 
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