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yeah, but marines still make up a lot of their sales, since a lot of the new players choose them. And since these molds are already paid for, wouldn't make sense to kill the free golden goose

 Red Corsair wrote:
Guys, you think they don't want to devalue current marines? lol

Makes far more sense to treat marines like empire state units in fantasy and invalidate them in game and create a new uber marine.

They have nothing to lose from you, they got your money, they can only get more of it from the people that will by the next generation. They were only ever going to sell so many marine kits. The current bloat with things like gladius was a smart move by them to get all those collectors to buy out their marine stock ha ha.

I can honestly say I haven't met a new marine collector in at least 2 years in my area, while the vets have slowly bought enough marines that they openly brag about never needing to buy any more marine kits.

I am sure marines will still have legacy rules but don't act shocked when over the next few years they become total neglected rubbish. How long before we get a new Uber rhino chassis?

Edit: BTW I am not laughing at people having invalidated armies, just chuckling at the situation as a whole. I have a ton of marines myself lol In fact I bet I have well over 300 marines across faction, and to add some anecdotal evidence, the only new marines I have bought in the last 5 years were the calth chaps.

Hmm, what you are saying actually makes some sense. I could see GW doing this I mean look at the scale of the new Deathwatch stuff.

SeanDrake wrote:


Give up it's like arguing with creationists and climate change deniers.

So the guys making a claim without actual sales data think they're the ones that aren't the "climate change deniers"? That's rich.

You have the quantities sold? I bet a number of occasions something sold out quick you might have said, 'Well they probably didn't make a ton - that's why it sold out so fast!'

 Red Corsair wrote:
Guys, you think they don't want to devalue current marines? lol

Makes far more sense to treat marines like empire state units in fantasy and invalidate them in game and create a new uber marine.

They have nothing to lose from you, they got your money, they can only get more of it from the people that will by the next generation. They were only ever going to sell so many marine kits. The current bloat with things like gladius was a smart move by them to get all those collectors to buy out their marine stock ha ha.

I can honestly say I haven't met a new marine collector in at least 2 years in my area, while the vets have slowly bought enough marines that they openly brag about never needing to buy any more marine kits.

I am sure marines will still have legacy rules but don't act shocked when over the next few years they become total neglected rubbish. How long before we get a new Uber rhino chassis?

Edit: BTW I am not laughing at people having invalidated armies, just chuckling at the situation as a whole. I have a ton of marines myself lol In fact I bet I have well over 300 marines across faction, and to add some anecdotal evidence, the only new marines I have bought in the last 5 years were the calth chaps.

Yeah, this sounds frighteningly plausible to me.

 streetsamurai wrote:
yeah, but marines still make up a lot of their sales, since a lot of the new players choose them. And since these molds are already paid for, wouldn't make sense to kill the free golden goose

Well if they are just gonna add the Gullstartes to the regular Marines as an add on, would it really be killing the Goose or in their eyes enhancing it?

 streetsamurai wrote:
yeah, but marines still make up a lot of their sales, since a lot of the new players choose them. And since these molds are already paid for, wouldn't make sense to kill the free golden goose

Right, but that doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity to make more money off newer, bigger, better marines does it? In the interim they still have those paid for mold as insurance. My bet is even the vets that will initially bitch will by out the new stuff, at which point it is only inevitable they completely replace the old stuff.

GW has been making amazing profit gains ever since Kevin Rountree became CEO in 2015

he knows what people want, so if that means super marines, then so be it

Not trying to be negative btw, I hate doomseekers on forums. Maybe the new kits will be so baller we all welcome them. Some part of me will be irritated though since I have invested years of painting ha ha. I have hundreds of painted marines for pete sake, and to a better then table top standard on most.

Change can hurt even if it is good.

No way are they gonna invalidate current marines. By a physical and fluff standpoint it wouldn't make sense. I am pretty sure, Primarch or not, there is not enough RG blood to produce marines for every chapter to the extent that they would push the old marines out of production/fluff. Plus are Iron Hands, Space Wolves etc gonna willingly accept brothers who have their uncle's blood in them and not the 'spirit' of their own father?

Daedalus81 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:


Give up it's like arguing with creationists and climate change deniers.

So the guys making a claim without actual sales data think they're the ones that aren't the "climate change deniers"? That's rich.

You have the quantities sold? I bet a number of occasions something sold out quick you might have said, 'Well they probably didn't make a ton - that's why it sold out so fast!'

Don't be silly. ST molds demanded a big financial investment. It's obvious that they made a ton of it. This wasn't some repackaged box of existing models a la Gorechosen or GOC, the game contained exclusively brand new models. Not to mention that each GW store had numerous copy of it, and that they were doing a big push at LGS to buy a lot of it.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
No way are they gonna invalidate current marines. By a physical and fluff standpoint it wouldn't make sense. I am pretty sure, Primarch or not, there is not enough RG blood to produce marines for every chapter to the extent that they would push the old marines out of production/fluff. Plus are Iron Hands, Space Wolves etc gonna willingly accept brothers who have their uncle's blood in them and not the 'spirit' of their own father?

The old marines won't vanish, but they will just feel like weaklings next to the new übermarines. And yes, it is possible that they will be UM only, or that the other chapters will welcome these new sons of their 'spiritual liege' to lord over them with open arms.
Mat Ward's wet dream, basically.

 Crimson wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
No way are they gonna invalidate current marines. By a physical and fluff standpoint it wouldn't make sense. I am pretty sure, Primarch or not, there is not enough RG blood to produce marines for every chapter to the extent that they would push the old marines out of production/fluff. Plus are Iron Hands, Space Wolves etc gonna willingly accept brothers who have their uncle's blood in them and not the 'spirit' of their own father?

The old marines won't vanish, but they will just feel like weaklings next to the new übermarines. And yes, it is possible that they will be UM only, or that the other chapters will welcome these new sons of their 'spiritual liege' to lord over them with open arms.
Mat Ward's wet dream, basically.

They will be Ultras only until in his new Great Crusade, Based Robbie G rediscovers those brothers that vanished at the end of the Scouring, including Dorn who they will confirm was only missing and give him his 40k model long before they ever release his 30k one.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

What will they be called though? Thundercast Immortals for now. If AoS has Sigmarines, will these be Gilmarines?

Gullcast Eternals

Adeptus Gullstartes

Ultracast

Adeptus Astartes 2: Electric Boogaloo

This.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:


Give up it's like arguing with creationists and climate change deniers.

So the guys making a claim without actual sales data think they're the ones that aren't the "climate change deniers"? That's rich.

You have the quantities sold? I bet a number of occasions something sold out quick you might have said, 'Well they probably didn't make a ton - that's why it sold out so fast!'

Don't be silly. ST molds demanded a big financial investment. It's obvious that they made a ton of it. This wasn't some repackaged box of existing models a la Gorechosen or GOC, the game contained exclusively brand new models. Not to mention that each GW store had numerous copy of it, and that they were doing a big push at LGS to buy a lot of it.

Putting the cart before the horse. A large investment doesn't preclude the majority of sales.

Also last chance to buy were online only, correct?

Why would they invalidate the Marine models when the SC! Kits are still selling like hotcakes?

So instead of assuming that the new type of marine would be something you would take alongside regular tacticals, like every other release for space marines since the beginning of time, and like would go along with how it would actually work in the fluff; we automatically assume it's going to be a wholesale reboot of the line?

Look, if they do release a new type of marine and it is so brokenly powerful that there'll never be a reason to take a tactical ever again, then 8th edition will have already started off shooting itself in the foot. We're in a time where it seems like even GW themselves don't like 40k that much anymore. And GW is very aware of the prevailing feeling of frustration within the game. Some GW people have been quoted to say stuff like 40k is crushing itself under it's own weight.

I think that with all the positive things GW has done in the last year our so, it's not unreasonable to be a little optimistic about them fixing some of the issues 40k has going forward without screwing anyone any harder than is normal for an edition change. AoS is all of a sudden in a really good place because they took feedback from the community and from people who organize and run events and I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar thing going forward with 40k.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:


Give up it's like arguing with creationists and climate change deniers.

So the guys making a claim without actual sales data think they're the ones that aren't the "climate change deniers"? That's rich.

You have the quantities sold? I bet a number of occasions something sold out quick you might have said, 'Well they probably didn't make a ton - that's why it sold out so fast!'

Don't be silly. ST molds demanded a big financial investment. It's obvious that they made a ton of it. This wasn't some repackaged box of existing models a la Gorechosen or GOC, the game contained exclusively brand new models. Not to mention that each GW store had numerous copy of it, and that they were doing a big push at LGS to buy a lot of it.

Putting the cart before the horse. A large investment doesn't preclude the majority of sales.

Also last chance to buy were online only, correct?

where did I say anything about the majority of sales? You should read more carefully before doing snarky comments

And while last chance to buy was online only, it obviuosly had an impact in retail stores that stocked the models that were discontinued.

Imagine the new Mk X marines occupying a gap between tacticals and terminators. You could make an army composed only of them, but it would be like a Deathwing army, you may well get swamped.

What have I missed?

How is Guilliman's blood supposed to produce anything other than what exactly we already have with Astartes?

If this new ultraastartes proves to be something more than a low ball trolling, I think I will have finally aged out of 40k.

streetsamurai wrote:

Lol indeed I should just give up

But since I'm a university professor in Business adminstration, It's really hard for me to let such ignorance go uncorrected

That still doesn't mean your conclusion is correct though, as GW don't publish such info?

Last Chance To Buy was a selling through of stock - so we've absolutely no idea what that stock level was when it all went up. Then you'd have to factor in other games like BB selling out on teams etc, because allegedly GW were taken by surprise at its popularity.

Then there's Start Collecting sets - which seem to be pretty damned popular (even if some are better than others for being repeat buy building blocks), the various Board Games, the Heresy games, Age of Sigmar - all in a surprisingly short period of time when you look back at it, so much you can't compare it to any recent Annual Report in terms what was actually on sale.

However, we can make some shaky tie ups. Why shaky? Because it involves plausible if unsubstantiated rumours. For instance, shortly after a manager's meeting, it was bandied about that AoS was selling better than expected, and had accounted for 30% of sales, yes?

Following that, GW announced some impressive 6 month figures, and have since released a further statement that year end has continued that trend.

So adding what we're told by t'Internet to what we know from their reports - the two do match up, no? As I said, it's not 'proof positive', but it does somewhat pour water on your claim it's just ST and Last Chance to Buy, no?

I just can't wrap my head around the concept of bigger marines. If they're just trying to adjust to a "true" scale, then they've got a LOT of work to do updating everything. However, it sounds like these new marines are more so just "these goes to 11" compared to their punier marine brethren...which doesn't make sense either since Space Marines are so powerful they apparently functionally operate in tiny chapters of 1000 marines...and these guys are just that much better than that?

Also, it sounds like they're being set up to oppose the old Imperium with some of the goings-on in the Gathering Storm, so are we looking at Big Marines vs Small Marines in the next starter?

Of course, I didn't see Centurions coming, but at least they're just exo-armor.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:

Lol indeed I should just give up

But since I'm a university professor in Business adminstration, It's really hard for me to let such ignorance go uncorrected

That still doesn't mean your conclusion is correct though, as GW don't publish such info?

Last Chance To Buy was a selling through of stock - so we've absolutely no idea what that stock level was when it all went up. Then you'd have to factor in other games like BB selling out on teams etc, because allegedly GW were taken by surprise at its popularity.

Then there's Start Collecting sets - which seem to be pretty damned popular (even if some are better than others for being repeat buy building blocks), the various Board Games, the Heresy games, Age of Sigmar - all in a surprisingly short period of time when you look back at it, so much you can't compare it to any recent Annual Report in terms what was actually on sale.

However, we can make some shaky tie ups. Why shaky? Because it involves plausible if unsubstantiated rumours. For instance, shortly after a manager's meeting, it was bandied about that AoS was selling better than expected, and had accounted for 30% of sales, yes?

Following that, GW announced some impressive 6 month figures, and have since released a further statement that year end has continued that trend.

So adding what we're told by t'Internet to what we know from their reports - the two do match up, no? As I said, it's not 'proof positive', but it does somewhat pour water on your claim it's just ST and Last Chance to Buy, no?

1-That was a troll job, Hasting debunked it.
2-Tne increase can be credited to a million things, SE being really low on that list. Anybody who has a bit of knowledge in BA knows that a company financial report will do anything to make themselves look good, including putting lipstick on a pig. The little phrase stating that AOS is selling better than WHFB in recent years is absolutely meaningless, since it doesn't give any indication on how that increase was obtained (old kits being sold beacuse they were discontinued??? New kits selling well? Mostly based on ST???? We don't know), and to which year they compared it (starter set year or not).
3-ANd I never said it was only ST and Last chance to buy, only that it had a lot to do with it. Which it obviously did. I personally think AOS is not selling well, but I don't try to claim it is the case since we don't know for sure. What irks me is people stating it sell well without having any evidence.

Why so low on the list for Stormcast though?

ST and Last Chance having a lot to do with it isn't obvious at all - you're not presenting a case so much as making a claim on the internet without support, then backing it up with a claim to qualification (you may well be who you say, but as Internet, you'll forgive me not taking it at face value)

 BrotherGecko wrote:
What have I missed?

How is Guilliman's blood supposed to produce anything other than what exactly we already have with Astartes?

If this new ultraastartes proves to be something more than a low ball trolling, I think I will have finally aged out of 40k.

We don't know that Guilliman's blood factors into it at all. All we know is that it involves Cawl and Guilliman working together.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
What have I missed?

How is Guilliman's blood supposed to produce anything other than what exactly we already have with Astartes?

If this new ultraastartes proves to be something more than a low ball trolling, I think I will have finally aged out of 40k.

We don't know that Guilliman's blood factors into it at all. All we know is that it involves Cawl and Guilliman working together.

And hopefully its just new armor and bolters. Not just them making Guillstartes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Why so low on the list for Stormcast though?

ST and Last Chance having a lot to do with it isn't obvious at all - you're not presenting a case so much as making a claim on the internet without support, then backing it up with a claim to qualification (you may well be who you say, but as Internet, you'll forgive me not taking it at face value)

It is obvious, especially in ST case. This was a large scale release that sold so well that they just urgently made another new (repackaged) ST game to ride in its wave. Sure, we don't know with a 100% certainty (like we don't know with a 100% certainty that marines are GW best sellers), but anyone with a minimum of common sense can connect the dots.

Likely pure Geneseed extraction from Guilliman rather than his red stuff.

I've not read many of the spoilers, but do we know what Cawl's Quest of 10,000 years was by the end of the book (yes or no will do, don't want to know what it is!)

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
What have I missed?

How is Guilliman's blood supposed to produce anything other than what exactly we already have with Astartes?

If this new ultraastartes proves to be something more than a low ball trolling, I think I will have finally aged out of 40k.

We don't know that Guilliman's blood factors into it at all. All we know is that it involves Cawl and Guilliman working together.

And hopefully its just new armor and bolters. Not just them making Guillstartes.

Amen.

New armours and weapons would be cool. Guillastartes would be lamer than SE

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Why so low on the list for Stormcast though?

ST and Last Chance having a lot to do with it isn't obvious at all - you're not presenting a case so much as making a claim on the internet without support, then backing it up with a claim to qualification (you may well be who you say, but as Internet, you'll forgive me not taking it at face value)

It is obvious, especially in ST case. This was a large scale release that sold so well that they just urgently made another new (repackaged) ST game to ride in its wave.

Still not obvious. Despite the common name, Hammerhal is closer to Quest than Silver Tower was - pre-set Dungeons, need for a dungeon master - Silver Tower had neither of those features.

And that's still not answering why you claim Stormcast Eternals, and one assumes by extension AoS, aren't a large part of GW's recent change in fortunes?

I don't even know what "on topic" means anymore...