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2017/04/03 20:48:02
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Grot 6 wrote: Even GW knows that the game is getting too big, and that the price range is the turn off point to getting little timmy to buy in.
True and false. The game has more rules than GW can manage, which hurts the uptake. AoS grew well, so the simplified rules aren't a hindrance to ultimate sales.
The price range isn't really a turn off. GW just sold out of $130 SWA boxed sets containing a mere 5 Scouts and 10 Boyz. In a matter of hours. The $130 price point didn't appear to hurt sales at all.
I was alluding to new players buy in. How is your ratio of new players to old, in your area?
We're all old; but even if we weren't, the buy-in isn't an issue. It's not like we're poor to get what we want. I just got my CC statement with my KD:M PM adds.
Buy-in is an issue. Even if the money isn't an issue.
If I quote someone a ballpark getting started figure for Infinity, Malifaux, Guildball, or many other games... GW products are more expensive by an order of magnitude.
If I put a Malifaux or Infinity model next to a modern GW model, maybe the GW model is on that level of quality.
Especially if I put a Malifaux or Infinity model next to some of GW's 20 year old garbage sculpts that is cast in absolute trash that is finecast... GW looks absurd. Especially since GW products are trapped in an aesthetic from an era where giant hands and bizarre anatomy is the rule. Put a Terminator model next to an Azra'il or Al Fasid model and tell me GW doesn't look the absolute fool.
Then I pull out the rulebooks (that are often free), and show them how tightly and clearly written they are compared to GW.
Then I talk model balance, competitive tournament support, etc.
Then I talk the raw amount of painting and hobby work they have to do before playing a real game.
Why is someone going to pay thousands to play a GW product when they could pay $100-200 to play the very arguably equal if not outright superior product? Even if they could easily afford any of the options. They'd have to REALLY like the GW IP. Liking the IP is a legit reason to play GW games, but not many people with zero emotional investment in GW are going to magically gravitate towards GW's IP over another game's IP.
Buy in matters, because other companies are offering competing buy ins. GW has competition, and NEW players don't owe GW anything.
2017/04/03 20:49:31
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Malifaux model quality is not nearly as good as what modern GW does. Aesthetics preference asides (true scale vs heroic scale) their minis are not as detailled, nor do they offer the range of options and posabilities of GW minis. And this is coming from someone who likes Malifaux a lot
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/03 20:52:58
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/04/03 21:23:56
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
That might be one of the more perplexing things I've heard someone say here. Spoilers? For rules? Spoilers???
I suppose by by spoiler I mean avoiding wafts of Internet cynicism fart smell on opening the box instead of the whole new box game smell/unknown components experience like the gud ole days.
I even have Friday off work to take delivery of it. A few of the lads are doing the same, should be a blast.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
2017/04/03 21:33:37
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
the_scotsman wrote: Welp, I have been industriously hoarding leaks, and it seems the only thing we haven't seen screenshots of is the missions and the skills tables. Or have those been posted at some point?
I think there's some other stuff missing, unless you've stumbled across bits and pieces I haven't seen.
For example, I've not yet seen the full outline of how Ld/morale works.
2017/04/03 22:02:40
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/04/03 22:06:53
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Yeah, but he's Dutch, cycling 30km is like me going to the bathroom.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
So did I miss it, or are Chaos Space Marines only a single entry and if you had wanted to play as a Sorcerer with some rubrics you kinda have to fudge with the Mark of Tzeentch?
2017/04/03 22:31:09
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
frozenwastes wrote: It probably should have been 25% more money. Hopefully the demand that has been demonstrated on this print run will be taken into account for the next and they'll jack the price up a bit. It was obviously too cheap.
Are you trolling, or do you just lack an understanding of how boxed sets and starters work?
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/04/03 22:45:28
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
GW can't print more. The components that made this a "limited" set(box, counters, and rulebook/reference guides) were all done by a printing company elsewhere.
So GW will pay them to do another run?
The doomsday angst is real.
Assuming that their a favoured customer with the (at least) three different printers they use (all the heavy card stuff, boxes, and books are printed by different companies) we'd still be looking at a good four months, minimum, before GW could get them on shelves again and it would be a ridiculous amount of work that i just don't think they're invested in (and rightfully so.)
That being said, it would be absurd not to rerelease the rules in some form or another (and as much as I don't care for ebooks, my money's on that direction.)
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davou wrote: Just wanna link something awesome I just came across online regarding terrain!
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/04/03 23:34:13
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
All the talk of cards and tokens, I thought part of the Specialist Game expansion included acquiring some of the necessary machines so they could produce some more of the materials in house.
As much as I like what GWs been doing in the last year their treatment of this game's release shows there is still a problem with their perspective. They clearly understand we want certain types of games but they are unwilling to really think of those games as products unto themselves and merely as vehicles for selling discount bundles for 40k. It is as if they were treating the latter as a potential loss to revenue that needed to be mitigated by selling only a fixed volume. A game only works as a gateway if for a significant time it's consistently and perpetually sold and supported. A limited product can never be that.
2017/04/03 23:47:23
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
GW is still a business, one that wants quick turn on investement. If the product sits on the warehouse or shelves, like Dreadfleet did, that's bad.
GW knows there is a saturation to everything the sell, so limiting sales is sensible. The only question is how they limit it. In this case, I wouldn't doubt a 2nd or 3rd printing. Or restock for X months.
The idea that this is "1 and done" doesn't make sense, and I don't think we've gotten anything definitive that this is a single production run, never to be repeated.
Buy-in is an issue. Even if the money isn't an issue.
[...]
Buy in matters, because other companies are offering competing buy ins. GW has competition, and NEW players don't owe GW anything.
You also forgot one very, VERY important factor. Local playerbase. There's a Warhammer playerbase of some sort in almost every single location around the world, all things considered (although in some cases it's a little underground and reclusive), wherease most of these newer games have a far more niche and limited fanbase.
If you have friends willing to jump in along with you then all the better, but if you're starting on your own and trying to find a group to join into, then going with the game that DOES have fans helps...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 01:23:32
2017/04/04 01:34:55
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
Buy-in is an issue. Even if the money isn't an issue.
[...]
Buy in matters, because other companies are offering competing buy ins. GW has competition, and NEW players don't owe GW anything.
You also forgot one very, VERY important factor. Local playerbase. There's a Warhammer playerbase of some sort in almost every single location around the world, all things considered (although in some cases it's a little underground and reclusive), wherease most of these newer games have a far more niche and limited fanbase.
If you have friends willing to jump in along with you then all the better, but if you're starting on your own and trying to find a group to join into, then going with the game that DOES have fans helps...
10 years ago thats very true, but today, at least here in Spain, the GW crow its actually now the rare thing to encounter. Infinity ,Guildball, X-wing and Warmahordes have detroned every GW game in the biggest part of the country.
I doesn't help that I live just at the side of the Infinity/CorvusBelli HQ
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/04 01:46:10
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/04/04 01:55:44
Subject: Games Workshop - Shadow War Armageddon - sold out already (pg 62)
I doubt it's the case for the whole of Spain. One of the main reason I now mostly only play GW games is that i was tired of seasrching for opponents. Some people seems to underestimate how hard it is to find players for other games (bar warmahodre and X-wing)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 01:57:17
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/04/04 02:13:22
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Buy-in is an issue. Even if the money isn't an issue.
[...]
Buy in matters, because other companies are offering competing buy ins. GW has competition, and NEW players don't owe GW anything.
You also forgot one very, VERY important factor. Local playerbase. There's a Warhammer playerbase of some sort in almost every single location around the world, all things considered (although in some cases it's a little underground and reclusive), wherease most of these newer games have a far more niche and limited fanbase.
If you have friends willing to jump in along with you then all the better, but if you're starting on your own and trying to find a group to join into, then going with the game that DOES have fans helps...
10 years ago thats very true, but today, at least here in Spain, the GW crow its actually now the rare thing to encounter. Infinity ,Guildball, X-wing and Warmahordes have detroned every GW game in the biggest part of the country.
I doesn't help that I live just at the side of the Infinity/CorvusBelli HQ
I dunno SN battle reports has some of the best 40k games blogs around and a pretty active tournament scene. It is by far one of the best 40k blog sites, super active and based right on the border of Spain or part of Spain depending on your definition. http://snbattlereports.com
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/04 02:27:08
Nathan
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