Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Does it actually, or is this more slippery slop fallacy

How dare you bring up the food fed to pigs!

....Anyhow, There probably are those, at this very minute seething with outrage over the use of the words retardant and resistant and are planning how best to liberate them from their current use. In ancient times they would never be known, their manuscripts of dubious rhetoric tossed in the house clearance skip. Now they can connect with other like minded fools and thus a movement is born.

There are probably groups dedicated to excising whole swathes of the English Language. In fact look at the amount of attention 'cis' naming gets.

 Popsghostly wrote:
Ha ha read this thread incorrectly. Thought it was preventing Abe-ism, the prime minister of Japan. I was like these guys can talk about Japanese politics.

Tough call. Back in the 80's "r*tard" was a commonly-used term, but isn't PC now. Looking back, I agree that it shouldn't be used, especially since it is a derogatory term with the context of someone who has mental disabilities.

Will "lame" be the same? Only time will tell, but I can see the atheist point of view because it can be used as a derogatory term that insults those with a disability. I mean "lame" is generally not, maybe never a positive term.

I edited this because Dakka's software automatically corrected r*tard to "slow". Wow.

Yeah, I was on a forum for car guys a while back and was discussing how much to r**ard the timing on my ignition. That got changed to slow as well. Kind of weird.

Again, who are you to say whether a given person should or should not be taking offence?

I'm a proper sweary-Mary. I can make Sailors blush and indeed have no less than three accepted entries in Roger's Profanisaurus. Yet I still tailor my vocabulary to the audience, whomever they might be.

Here's another one. Rape. It's an unpleasant word for an unpleasant action. Yet we see it time and again used in other senses - such as 'I raped his army lolololol'. As a victim of rape, I find such usage (but not the word) incredibly and personally offensive. It's not for you or anyone else to tell me to simply not be offended. That's not how it works.

For someone who lives with a disability of any kind, various words will quite possibly have been used as insults direct toward them. It's not for you, me or anyone else that isn't that person to tell them 'stop being offended'.

It matters not one iota if offence was intended. Indeed in many cases that can be worse. If someone calls you out on your language, learn from it.

 Popsghostly wrote:

 redleger wrote:
So follow question, as this continues to kind of eat at me. At what point do we end up whittling down the English language to one word for each meaning? Vocabulary would become unnecessary, and descriptive words useless. Retardant is a perfect example. So now we saw fire resistant. Now somehow resistant becomes offensive to people fighting oppressive governments. I mean there needs to be a point where people learn to control their own emotions themselves without censoring everyone so they don't have to.

Along those lines, we'd lose the "Lame"nter Chapter of mahreens! I think lame is commonly used now and this is the first time I've ever started questioning whether it is acceptable or not. By that token, I understand how it could be derogatory. That's why this is a very valuable thread because it is making us think about the term lame.

What is the correct extent people must control their emotions? Is it wrong for a person of African-descent to be upset with the use of the word "n*gger"? Is it wrong for a person that has a mentally disabled nephew to be upset with the use of the word "r*tard"? Is it wrong for a woman to get upset with the use of the phrase "it is OK to throw stones at girls" for a jewelry ad?

All good questions. I am not saying people can't be upset, i get upset quite often. What I don't do is allow my emotions to control me(usually) the point I am unable to function or operate at the necessary level to continue interacting with people. Everyone has triggers(I hate that word now BTW) but ones ability to manage themselves is one of the tenants of leaving adolescence and becoming an adult.

I know derogatory words used in context of denigration of people are wrong, most people do. The problem comes I believe when you ignore context. Your examples above are good in the fact that the first two when used badly are reasons to be upset, but not necessarily reason to behave irrationally in return. The last one is obviously a play on words and if you can't stop and think about the context then yes, you are expecting someone else to control your emotions for you because you can not think about the meaning. I mean most commercials have pictures that fill in the contextual meaning that radio wouldn't.

To my retardant example. look up the meaning, apply proper context then you know how it is being used. That's reasoning and critical thinking at its base. If its being used to explain something burns slowly based on its material make up, then its ok. If its used to describe a condition then its still possibly ok, because that is the name of the condition, or it was when it was developed as a word. If its being use to say someone who is mentally slowed is of no worth, and therefore calling someone else that is the ultimate insult, then yes you are denigrating the people being mentioned. You can not make a blanket statement banning most words without limiting communication.

I also had an instance where someone insisted that I stop using the term "Black", as African American was the prefered term. Nevermind that I was actually refering to the racial makeup of ancient Egypt. I'm pretty sure NONE of them were Americans of any type.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I also had an instance where someone insisted that I stop using the term "Black", as African American was the prefered term. Nevermind that I was actually refering to the racial makeup of ancient Egypt. I'm pretty sure NONE of them were Americans of any type.

depending on who you talk to neither of those terms should be used, but Ill save my mors vs denationalization thread for the future.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again, who are you to say whether a given person should or should not be taking offence?

I am.

I'm a proper sweary-Mary. I can make Sailors blush and indeed have no less than three accepted entries in Roger's Profanisaurus. Yet I still tailor my vocabulary to the audience, whomever they might be.

Cool but these words we're discussing are not insults or slurs when used in their context. When used out of context almost anything can be an insult.

Here's another one. Rape. It's an unpleasant word for an unpleasant action. Yet we see it time and again used in other senses - such as 'I raped his army lolololol'. As a victim of rape, I find such usage (but not the word) incredibly and personally offensive. It's not for you or anyone else to tell me to simply not be offended. That's not how it works.

Your argument supports mine, not yours actually. In its proper use it is not an insult. In its improper use its lame and I've told more than one kid to shut the hole in his face.

For someone who lives with a disability of any kind, various words will quite possibly have been used as insults direct toward them. It's not for you, me or anyone else that isn't that person to tell them 'stop being offended'.

Like being a gimp magoo neanderthal like me....

It matters not one iota if offence was intended. Indeed in many cases that can be worse. If someone calls you out on your language, learn from it.

Literally no one but my mother has called me out on my language. I miss her sweet "watch you language you bastad" qups.

Words like lame are a slur, to some people.

It's not for us to police offence caused.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Words like lame are a slur, to some people.

It's not for us to police offence caused.

Your argument is lame. Some people look for offense where none is intended. em.

Outside of describing a horse's physical condition, I don't even understand the issue. Of course its a slur.
EDIT: Kind of like "cat person" the greatest insult I could ever contemplate. Woof!

The Issue is this Frazz
Whiny people are upset because words hurt.
Whatever happened to
"Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
Because we need to be saying that ALOT more often.

As a Wargamer with severe Hemophilia, Degenerative Joint Disease, Muscle Atrophy, Osteoarthritis and Contracture of 3 joints I have been called lame, gimp, cripple, hobbles, Howard (like the duck, because I waddle) and Sir Limps Alot....by my closest friends and family. It's because of them these words don't hurt me and I feel like all of the energy people spend being offended by them could be better used putting chairs by the tables in Games Workshops, I would like to sit down.

 Frazzled wrote:

EDIT: Kind of like "cat person" the greatest insult I could ever contemplate. Woof!

Careful, there are people that might get turned on by calling them a cat person

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

EDIT: Kind of like "cat person" the greatest insult I could ever contemplate. Woof!

Careful, there are people that might get turned on by calling them a cat person

Not if I throw a raging wiener dog at them. BITEBITEBITEBITEBITE!

AS noted, I don't have an issue if a word is being used in its proper context and not meant as an insult.

Hmmm... as a non english native speaker I have a question.

What relation has all of this with... atheism?

Now, in the topic, in Spain a problem similar to this happen 1 or 2 years ago. We have here a terrorism victim called Irene Villa that after the terrorist attack she loses his two arms and legs. And yeah, many many jokes generate around that.

Someone on twitter did a joke of that girl, and as he was a Political figure, everyone beging calling him insensitive about terrorism victims and all that. Then, when the proper Irene Villa say that she don't get offendet of the jokes that people do about his disgrace, the same people that attack the first guy began calling her a "Terrorist victim with stockolm syndrome".

After knowing many really disable people with medical problems, etc... I have seen that in the mayority of cases, they rarely be offended by this kind of things. Its more people with 0 problems that chose to be offended for other people.

 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... as a non english native speaker I have a question.

What relation has all of this with... atheism?

As an atheist and a cripple I have absolutely no idea.

 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... as a non english native speaker I have a question.

What relation has all of this with... atheism?

None necessarily, but the problem with the given example came up on a page I used to follow. Too many soft hearts there though.

 zeragrin wrote:
As a Wargamer with severe Hemophilia, Degenerative Joint Disease, Muscle Atrophy, Osteoarthritis and Contracture of 3 joints I have been called lame, gimp, cripple, hobbles, Howard (like the duck, because I waddle) and Sir Limps Alot....by my closest friends and family. It's because of them these words don't hurt me and I feel like all of the energy people spend being offended by them could be better used putting chairs by the tables in Games Workshops, I would like to sit down.

Good to hear you have thick skin. It's a valuable trait very integral for success.

But, what if people that weren't your closest friends and family called you these terms? Someone you didn't know? Or if they just referred to you as that guy, you know the "fill-in-the-blank term you described above" that plays Warhammer? How do your friends/family feel when others call you those terms? Or if you had a child that had those conditions and she/he cried when people called him/her those terms?

 redleger wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... as a non english native speaker I have a question.

What relation has all of this with... atheism?

None necessarily, but the problem with the given example came up on a page I used to follow. Too many soft hearts there though.

One of the thigs that I have noticed its that today people used the term Politically Correct with things that 10 years ago were simple basic education.

I'm a polite person, if something that I said offend anyone, and my intention was not to offend, I apoligice and move on. Then, in my private life with my friends I can't be more uneducate and impolite with everyone, like calling my friends and family off Canary Islands "f***ins africaans" and all that.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

EDIT: Kind of like "cat person" the greatest insult I could ever contemplate. Woof!

Careful, there are people that might get turned on by calling them a cat person

Ha. Me-ooowww!!!

 Popsghostly wrote:

 zeragrin wrote:
As a Wargamer with severe Hemophilia, Degenerative Joint Disease, Muscle Atrophy, Osteoarthritis and Contracture of 3 joints I have been called lame, gimp, cripple, hobbles, Howard (like the duck, because I waddle) and Sir Limps Alot....by my closest friends and family. It's because of them these words don't hurt me and I feel like all of the energy people spend being offended by them could be better used putting chairs by the tables in Games Workshops, I would like to sit down.

Good to hear you have thick skin. It's a valuable trait very integral for success.

But, what if people that weren't your closest friends and family called you these terms? Someone you didn't know? Or if they just referred to you as that guy, you know the "fill-in-the-blank term you described above" that plays Warhammer? How do your friends/family feel when others call you those terms? Or if you had a child that had those conditions and she/he cried when people called him/her those terms?

I've been called those names by other people and my loved ones would definitely be more offended than me. I honestly can't explain to you how little I care about what others think of me as I don't receive my validation in life from sources other than myself. As an intelligent person who understands genetics I won't be having children, my wife and I never even considered it, so I have no worldview to accurately answer your last question. I can only give you my anecdotal experiences and the advice based on them.

Edited for spelling.

 Galas wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... as a non english native speaker I have a question.

What relation has all of this with... atheism?

None necessarily, but the problem with the given example came up on a page I used to follow. Too many soft hearts there though.

One of the thigs that I have noticed its that today people used the term Politically Correct with things that 10 years ago were simple basic education.

I'm a polite person, if something that I said offend anyone, and my intention was not to offend, I apoligice and move on. Then, in my private life with my friends I can't be more uneducate and implite with everyone, like calling my friends in Canary Islands "f***ins africaans" and all that.

I think that is the point though. I'm not talking about discussions between friends. Veteran speak would make some people literally cry. I'm talking about everyday words with multiple legitimate meaning that people want banned because they could if used incorrectly hurt someone's feeling. These are not cases of misunderstanding but of regression that plagues what was once a progressive community.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The Issue is this Frazz
Whiny people are upset because words hurt.
Whatever happened to
"Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
Because we need to be saying that ALOT more often.

Try using that one to get around Rule #1, see how far it gets you.

 redleger wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm talking about everyday words with multiple legitimate meaning that people want banned because they could if used incorrectly hurt someone's feeling.

This exactly, what people don't understand is that you can't tell people how to speak because that is one step closer to losing freedom of speech, no matter whose feelings it hurts the right to free speech is paramount.
Edited
Trash formatting but you get the picture.

 zeragrin wrote:

 Popsghostly wrote:

 zeragrin wrote:
As a Wargamer with severe Hemophilia, Degenerative Joint Disease, Muscle Atrophy, Osteoarthritis and Contracture of 3 joints I have been called lame, gimp, cripple, hobbles, Howard (like the duck, because I waddle) and Sir Limps Alot....by my closest friends and family. It's because of them these words don't hurt me and I feel like all of the energy people spend being offended by them could be better used putting chairs by the tables in Games Workshops, I would like to sit down.

Good to hear you have thick skin. It's a valuable trait very integral for success.

But, what if people that weren't your closest friends and family called you these terms? Someone you didn't know? Or if they just referred to you as that guy, you know the "fill-in-the-blank term you described above" that plays Warhammer? How do your friends/family feel when others call you those terms? Or if you had a child that had those conditions and she/he cried when people called him/her those terms?

I've been called those names by other people and my loved ones would definitely be more offended than me. I honestly can't explain to you how little I care about what others think of me as I don't receive my validation in life from sources other than myself. As an intelligent person who understands genetics I won't be having children, my wife and I never even considered it, so I have no worldview to accurately answer your last question. I can only give you my anecdotal experiences and the advice based on them.

Edited for spelling.

I salute you. This is the ttitude I take as well.

Well. As other point, vocabulary and lenguage don't stop changing with time. What 30 years ago was accepted today maybe iss offensive. What 60 years ago was accepted 30 years ago was totally offensive.

Etc, etc...

And as a Spaniard I find funny that "Negro" (Negro just means black) its a peyorative term in english.

 Spinner wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The Issue is this Frazz
Whiny people are upset because words hurt.
Whatever happened to
"Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
Because we need to be saying that ALOT more often.

Try using that one to get around Rule #1, see how far it gets you.

Yes, that is no excuse to break rule #1. It is not an excuse to be impolite by any means. It is a personal philosophy that could be used to prevent filling out hurt feelings reports though when you happen to hear something you don't like.

 redleger wrote:

 zeragrin wrote:

 Popsghostly wrote:

 zeragrin wrote:
As a Wargamer with severe Hemophilia, Degenerative Joint Disease, Muscle Atrophy, Osteoarthritis and Contracture of 3 joints I have been called lame, gimp, cripple, hobbles, Howard (like the duck, because I waddle) and Sir Limps Alot....by my closest friends and family. It's because of them these words don't hurt me and I feel like all of the energy people spend being offended by them could be better used putting chairs by the tables in Games Workshops, I would like to sit down.

Good to hear you have thick skin. It's a valuable trait very integral for success.

But, what if people that weren't your closest friends and family called you these terms? Someone you didn't know? Or if they just referred to you as that guy, you know the "fill-in-the-blank term you described above" that plays Warhammer? How do your friends/family feel when others call you those terms? Or if you had a child that had those conditions and she/he cried when people called him/her those terms?

I've been called those names by other people and my loved ones would definitely be more offended than me. I honestly can't explain to you how little I care about what others think of me as I don't receive my validation in life from sources other than myself. As an intelligent person who understands genetics I won't be having children, my wife and I never even considered it, so I have no worldview to accurately answer your last question. I can only give you my anecdotal experiences and the advice based on them.

Edited for spelling.

I salute you. This is the ttitude I take as well.

You know it took me a long time to get there but limiting how people can speak is not what got me here.

So, we use a word that compares something to a class of people in order to express a negative opinion of that something, then tell the class of people used as a descriptor of negative value not to be offended by us using them as the standard of that which is terrible and substandard?


Like, if I said Frazz was a total Texas who texased up this thread until it was all Texas, a state of being I and all good people find distasteful, then it would be Frazzled's fault for being offended by the usage of the idea that being Texan in nature is a horrible, horrible thing that connotes all kinds of unpleasantness? We can count on Frazzled not to be offended when we use his very texasness as an insult for people we don't like.

The difference being that Frazzled can move out of Texas and shed his horrible texasness, but a lame person cannot choose to stop being lame. And that's just Texas for that poor person.*



*At first I was going to use the verb "to Jew", but I've heard people use it and then tell me to stop whining when I was offended. However, in the past that analogy has been less than successful on Dakka, so I went for phrasing that might actually communicate the idea to others.

 zeragrin wrote:

 Popsghostly wrote:

 zeragrin wrote:
As a Wargamer with severe Hemophilia, Degenerative Joint Disease, Muscle Atrophy, Osteoarthritis and Contracture of 3 joints I have been called lame, gimp, cripple, hobbles, Howard (like the duck, because I waddle) and Sir Limps Alot....by my closest friends and family. It's because of them these words don't hurt me and I feel like all of the energy people spend being offended by them could be better used putting chairs by the tables in Games Workshops, I would like to sit down.

Good to hear you have thick skin. It's a valuable trait very integral for success.

But, what if people that weren't your closest friends and family called you these terms? Someone you didn't know? Or if they just referred to you as that guy, you know the "fill-in-the-blank term you described above" that plays Warhammer? How do your friends/family feel when others call you those terms? Or if you had a child that had those conditions and she/he cried when people called him/her those terms?

I've been called those names by other people and my loved ones would definitely be more offended than me. I honestly can't explain to you how little I care about what others think of me as I don't receive my validation in life from sources other than myself. As an intelligent person who understands genetics I won't be having children, my wife and I never even considered it, so I have no worldview to accurately answer your last question. I can only give you my anecdotal experiences and the advice based on them.

Edited for spelling.

Good answer. I agree that more effort needs to be placed on things like getting chairs for you at the table and making everything more accessible to all people rather than just taking offense. Nothing irks me more than not being able to get a stroller up the stairs because there's no elevator/ramp/escalator!!!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, we use a word that compares something to a class of people in order to express a negative opinion of that something, then tell the class of people used as a descriptor of negative value not to be offended by us using them as the standard of that which is terrible and substandard?


Like, if I said Frazz was a total Texas who texased up this thread until it was all Texas, a state of being I and all good people find distasteful, then it would be Frazzled's fault for being offended by the usage of the idea that being Texan in nature is a horrible, horrible thing that connotes all kinds of unpleasantness? We can count on Frazzled not to be offended when we use his very texasness as an insult for people we don't like.

The difference being that Frazzled can move out of Texas and shed his horrible texasness, but a lame person cannot choose to stop being lame. And that's just Texas for that poor person.*



*At first I was going to use the verb "to Jew", but I've heard people use it and then tell me to stop whining when I was offended. However, in the past that analogy has been less than successful on Dakka, so I went for phrasing that might actually communicate the idea to others.

I'm from Galicia. Galicia its a "Estate" of Spain.

In all of Southamerica, they call the spanish people "Gallegos". "Gallegos" in that context means lazy and stupid. The reason for that its because after the Civil War, the mayority of the spanish Emigrants to Southamerica where from Galicia, so that xenophobe term remains today. And no, I'm not offended when someone from Southamerica uses the term "Gallego" in a offensive manner, because as they said "the hurt who can not who wants"

(I don't know if that its how its spelled in English, I used google traductor to translate a spanish proverb )