Warhammer Underworlds - Embergard new edition. p.151

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**Snrub**

AduroT wrote:
I like it. I was already feeling like the game had grown too big,

This is my thought as well. We really don't need 3 stormcast warbands and 2 khorne warbands. 1 Warband per faction should have been more then sufficient.

**Knight**

How many were playing older SCE warbands? I quite like my rats but if they release another set with a seer or moulder clan I'm definitely spending my time on them.

**Kanluwen**

Knight wrote:
How many were playing older SCE warbands? I quite like my rats but if they release another set with a seer or moulder clan I'm definitely spending my time on them.

Steelheart's Champions(the Liberator based ones) get played often.

Farstriders(the Vanguard based one) has struggled for awhile. Most of the gimmicky builds have been removed/restricted from competitive play.

**highlord tamburlaine**

Is the starter with the easy to build models available yet?

**Aeneades**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Is the starter with the easy to build models available yet?

Dreadfane? It’s a cut down game rather than a full starter. It’s only available in US and Germany (Barnes and Nobel exclusive in US).

**Commodus Leitdorf**

So long as I can still buy the warbands themselves I'm cool with it. I was worried they would be discontinued entirely which is why I rushed to pick up Magores Fiends over the weekend.

Mostly because I use them as alternative sculpts to flesh out my Bloodbound army.

**LunarSol**

Not surprised. The cards have been marked for this sort of thing from the start.

**Albino Squirrel**

I think the warbands have been discontinued. They are just saying the old warbands will still be allowed in tournaments for people who already have them.

**Coenus Scaldingus**

Not unexpected, though it would be nice if they communicated this beforehand (if they did: never mind).

Glad they won't stop selling the models, which are largely excellent and great conversion fodder too. No invalidation of the warbands people have, while slowly fading them out in that they will become less common with new players unable to start them.

If anybody has been wishing to play the Skaven band and now missed out: send me a PM. I bought the set for the models only (before they released them separately) and still have the cards.. somewhere.

**Snrub**

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I think the warbands have been discontinued. They are just saying the old warbands will still be allowed in tournaments for people who already have them.

The warbands w/card packs have been discontinued.
The warbands themselves are still available, just not under the WH:Underworlds tab. You can still find them under their respective AOS army tab though.

**stonehorse**

Kanluwen wrote:

What We’re Doing

With Beastgrave, Warhammer Underworlds now has a lot of cards –- and there are even more on the way. Starting with the next expansion, we’ll be “rotating out” the oldest active set in Warhammer Underworlds every time we release a new season, meaning that at any given time, the card pool will be limited to those printed in the two most recent seasons.

What You Can Keep Using

Warbands will be exempt from cycling, along with any cards printed with a warband symbol. If you love the distinct play style of the Sepulchral Guard, Spiteclaw’s Swarm or any other warband you choose, you’ll be able to keep using them in competitive play into the next season and beyond.

Additionally, any cards reprinted in the two most recent seasons can still be used in your decks – even if they’re the versions first found in Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire. So, your Hold Objective cards are still valid, whether they’re displaying the horrifying artefacts of Beastgrave or the mysterious shadeglass relics of Shadespire in their art.

Why We’re Doing it

We want Warhammer Underworlds to remain fun, fresh and accessible. This change means that new players will never have more than two seasons’ worth of cards to master, keeping barriers to entry low – and giving you experienced players more opponents to test your skills against! This also ensures that the competitive scene remains dynamic and unpredictable – rather than relying on old staples, the very best players will be those who can take advantage of an always evolving card pool to create their decks.

The highlight reel.

Snare looks like a renamed Trap, I imagine my group will continue to use are full collection. (Never been a fan of rotation in CCG's), so going to be fun to have the chance to have both in a deck. sadly they can't both be used at the same time due to timing issues... but still, looking forward to see what old cards get renamed.

**Moopy**

This is why I stopped playing MTG. Really don't like that at all.

**Schmapdi**

It sucks because - I want to pick up Nightvault before it disappears. I have no interest in the Beastgrave starter. (because the wood elf minis are so bad, and the beastmen are kind uninspired too).

SO I have my Nightvault universal cards, that I can play with for all of a year. Then what if I don't like the season 4 start either? Am I totally screwed? You're basically crippled at that point.

They need to:
1) Make all warbands come with ONLY warband specific cards.
2) Make all the generic cards available every season in the new starter AND a $10 card pack available separately.
3) Work to reduce the sheer number of cards - it is kinda nuts.
4) If certain cards are too strong - they can be on the ban/restriction list - and a new, toned down, copy included in the next seasons starter pack/upgrade deck.

The current system seems to kinda suck/cost a fortune (which I know, is a feature, not a bug from GW's perspective) for new and existing players.

**RiTides**

Yeah, I love this game but plan to hold off and just stick with the cards from the first two seasons, at least for a while. I assume there will be some sort of open / classic play (even if unofficially). I really like playing it, but am not going to try to keep up with that release model...

**ingtaer**

Only just picked up Nightvault and am eagerly waiting to get into the game, it is slightly disconcerting to see stuff being nuked before I even get a chance to look at it (or get it) but just plan on playing with friends to start so don't need to be ultra competitive/card chase and we will happily proxy cards if we need to.

**Mr_Rose**

You know that nothing in Nightvault rotates until Beastgrave II or whatever it’s called in 2020, right?

As for stuff being nuked, this is for prize-supported competitive play and pick-up games (because they assume default settings) only.
No-one is going to come around to your house and rip up your cards so you can continue to play whatever at home.
Also, someone will create a “legacy” format with formal rules for using older stuff at some point; it just won’t be GW.

**ingtaer**

Was that directed at me?

Assuming so as your post follows mine and you have not quoted anyone else. Did you note where I said that I was only just getting into the game? So no one "will come and rip up my cards" because A) that is a ridicolous statement to make and B) I dont own many cards because I have only just picked up the season 2 starter for them to rip up. I also own zero of the season one cards that are being rotated out as, I have said, I have only just picked up the starter. However if I liked season one warbands I no longer have the option of picking them up as they have been nuked (ie. discontinued) or if as is being reported the models are available then I can get them and hope I can find out what cards go with what, which might come in handy for that "legacy" format as otherwise I wont have access to them...

**stonehorse**

Schmapdi wrote:

They need to:
1) Make all warbands come with ONLY warband specific cards.
2) Make all the generic cards available every season in the new starter AND a $10 card pack available separately.
3) Work to reduce the sheer number of cards - it is kinda nuts.
4) If certain cards are too strong - they can be on the ban/restriction list - and a new, toned down, copy included in the next seasons starter pack/upgrade deck.

Point 1 is for me the dream. As it is now it is impossible to build a pure faction warband. Not enough Objective cards, 9 in the warband box, and 1 in the seasons card pack. It would have been great if the warband expansions were sold with say 60 faction only cards. This way they could have balanced out the cards on a per faction basis and still given enough for deck building.

Some of the universal cards work far better for other factions, and this is what is causing some balancing issues

**LunarSol**

I like the overall system, but I do feel like they need to make commons available differently for it to keep working. I overloaded on models pretty quickly into Nightvault and don't plan to pick up sets unless I really like them going forward.

**AduroT**

Snrub wrote:
AduroT wrote:
I like it. I was already feeling like the game had grown too big,
This is my thought as well. We really don't need 3 stormcast warbands and 2 khorne warbands. 1 Warband per faction should have been more then sufficient.

We’re actually up to Four Stormcast warbands. I imagine we see more still as the old ones go oop.

**Kanluwen**

AduroT wrote:
Snrub wrote:
AduroT wrote:
I like it. I was already feeling like the game had grown too big,
This is my thought as well. We really don't need 3 stormcast warbands and 2 khorne warbands. 1 Warband per faction should have been more then sufficient.

We’re actually up to Four Stormcast warbands. I imagine we see more still as the old ones go oop.

Only Farstriders went out. Steelheart's are technically a Nightvault release, since they got their solo box with Nightvault--and they have Nightvault cards present.
Same with Garrek's Reavers.

**Irbis**

Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Not unexpected, though it would be nice if they communicated this beforehand (if they did: never mind).

They kinda did, in place where no one looks:

Spoiler:

Anyway, I don't get what is the point of ETB bands now. They were supposed to be cheaper, but they are direct only so the card ones cost less, actually. They can't be used to dip into the game for the fans of oop factions because they are useless without cards, and if you buy these on the side you'll pay more on top of jumping through the hoops. Do cards really cost so much S1 bands can't be kept in production as is?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Shadespire et al is meant to be GWs take on the CCG market,

so you need to rotate to prevent new players being overwhelmed both in terms of the sheer amount of cards around... too much to collect puts people off, and older players with a vast store of powerful cards does too (even if a few of the worst are banned)….. I actually feared worse with the old bands being rotated out too, but they and their specific cards are staying

and in terms of keeping older players spending on new sets rather than deciding their old ones are good enough

I'm sure plenty of places/groups will keep on playing with everything, but if your chasing 'official' trophies etc you need to play the rotation game

**hotsauceman1**

So, like
the two warbands in the starting set from season one where released under the nightvault logo seperatly, does that mean they are considered season 2?

**Kanluwen**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, like
the two warbands in the starting set from season one where released under the nightvault logo seperatly, does that mean they are considered season 2?

They're still available, so one would assume so.

The current rumor is that Nightvault will remain in production, albeit as a Direct Only item, meaning that we don't "lose" a week of releases to the Briar Queen and Cursebreakers--instead that would go to the two out of Dreadfane.

**Mr_Rose**

I wonder if they are doing something more interesting than simply dropping the OG Shadespire warbands and are instead reboxing them, possibly as pairs, with their unique cards.

**Kanluwen**

The book is coming with three alternate art versions of these Nightvault cards.

And look, Nurgle Warband in the middle!

**GaroRobe**

I wonder if the book is about potential warbands? The beastmen is unlikely, because he doesn't line up well with what we've seen. But a dryad warband for the sylvanneth would be awesome (even though they had a warband last season)

The Nurgle band could be a great way to get a plastic Nurgle Sorcerer (without removing Otto(?) from the Glottkin.) He's got what looks like antlers, which isnt super uncommon from Nurgle followers, but it would be cool if each warband was specifically themed around Ghur. I'd love me some dwarf ranger/vikings.

**redux**

Last night I picked up the last box or Ironskulls Boyz at the Warhammer store to use for my Ironjawz in Warcry.

**zamerion**

Nurgle yessss!!!

Some kind of mutant/zombie/insect would be great instead of the typical blightkings