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 Kanluwen wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Hey everyone rush out and buy all the 'legacy ' GW codeci and FW IA books for FULL PRICE!

2 steps forward one step back.

Weird thing is they just announced a voucher for codexes or current rule book (if you bought it within 8 weeks of the announcement, IIRC).

Yeah, I don't think they're going to honor anyone buying them beyond last Saturday.

Seeing as how they all got moved to the "Last Chance to Buy" section at my local GW.

They're not.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/24/just-bought-a-codex-dont-worry-weve-got-you-covered/

You can claim a voucher no matter where you bought your codex and/or rulebook, as long as you have your proof of purchase and it’s dated between the 25th of February 2017 and the 22nd of April 2017.

And they are still charging full price. Thats my point. They admit yhe books are obselete and they are even giving bloody refunds but can't even discount the fething books!

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
"Awesome" stuff coming at WHFest, and NO MODELS WILL BE SQUATTED!

For now.

Brets and Tomb Kings got rules when AoS came out.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
New factions AT LAUNCH

Yes. Death Guard most likely. And the super-Marines.

 Ratius wrote:
For 8th ed if you bought a codex within 8 weeks of the new launch, you will get a voucher to the value of the codex via the customer service team.

Oh God... where did I put the receipt for the Genestealer Cult Codex I bought 3 weeks ago!!!

 Vaktathi wrote:
Aye, we'll see how it turns out, thats the one bit I feel most hesitant about, but could be worked out to be pretty functional and would solve MC/Tank issues.

Vehicles rules are the make-of-break part of 40K for me. I started playing 40K because I love tanks (ignore the fact that they only made the Rhino and Land Raider at the time!). If the vehicle rules suck, then it's enough for me to not play the game. Hull Points were fething slowed, but enough worked with the 6th Ed vehicle rules to make me overlook those issues. 7th ruined everything.

This new set, well, as I've said before, this is GW's 8th attempt at getting something right that they've never managed to get right in the past before. My cynicism won't allow me to fall for this gak again. They've got to prove that they're worth playing.

If they have charging work the same way as AoS, this is really going to open up a completely new dynamic. No more charge what you shoot (which always seemed like a strange and limiting rule). Roll for charge, then determine which units you can reach and select one to assault. So if you can engage a tougher unit with you heavy firepower during shooting, and then either move in for the kill, or if you've done enough damage to the unit to render it combat ineffective, choose a different target for you assault. The entire strategies of move and shoot would revise, for the better IMHO.

As for vehicles, if you look at the rules for the Kharadron Overlord airships, you can see how they incorporate wounds and saves, as well as reduced capability as wounds are taken. And being able to fire all of the vehicle's weapons (after having moved it's unique move stat) at multiple targets would make some vehicles (LRs, for example) suddenly feel worth taking again.

Backfire wrote:


But terminators have sucked since... wait, no, they've never been good. In Rogue Trader they were too frail, in 2nd Edition they lacked any kind of real punch for the point cost (firing their storm bolters and producing a hail of jams was always fun!), 3rd Edition and beyond they were too damn frail to compete against the proliferation of AP2 weaponry that has continued for four straight editions.

Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd edition could annihilate just about every troop type and every vehicle. But otherwise, yes, you are correct. They've never found a decent medium that balanced their fluff with workable rules.

I haven't been this excited for a new edition of 40K since the change from Rogue Trader to 2nd Edition.

I'm very excited at the prospect that things like Wraithknights and Land Raiders share same stat platforms as opposed to Garg. Creature vs Vehicle rules.

Will everything be perfect? I'm sure not, but I am definitely more hopeful to see what the future of 40K holds.

 SickSix wrote:
And they are still charging full price. Thats my point. They admit yhe books are obselete and they are even giving bloody refunds but can't even discount the fething books!

"Oh no the Iphone X doesn't have a discount! But we know the Iphone Y is coming out!"

Why would they give a discount on it, why do you even care unless you were going to buy them... oh wait you're contemplating buying them even though you know they will be "obsolete"? Must be some kind of value to them then.

 SickSix wrote:
And they are still charging full price. Thats my point. They admit yhe books are obselete and they are even giving bloody refunds but can't even discount the fething books!

The refunds are aimed at people who don't find value in the books now there's a new edition, the continued sales of the books is aimed at people who still would find value in them.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
And they are still charging full price. Thats my point. They admit yhe books are obselete and they are even giving bloody refunds but can't even discount the fething books!

The refunds are aimed at people who don't find value in the books now there's a new edition, the continued sales of the books is aimed at people who still would find value in them.

Exactly. All the more is still useful. And I don't know about other people, but I use some of the models depicted in a codex to help with my painting.

I would still have been upset had I purchased the Skitarii codex a week ago like I planned. The voucher would have negated that, AND I would have a pretty nice book.

The books are only good for fluff. Is fluff worth full price not to me but it is worth 50%. But my bet is they get a full tax write off for unsold books they destroy

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n. If you do want to pick any up, now’s the time - as all of the great hobby content and background information will
be as valid as ever.

This is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those Chaos Space Marine and Sisters of Battle players. Both factions have been hanging out for a long time for an update. 4 months later, they are getting told they the update is not longer going to be compatible.

Even Forge World models?
Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models.

I am interested in knowing how this is going to be updated. Is FW producing an update book?

Nop, the rules for FW will be with GW.
FW newsletter just released : they stop Imperial Armor production.

Did someone got a print screen of the new organisation chart ?

 Mad Morkx wrote:

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n. If you do want to pick any up, now’s the time - as all of the great hobby content and background information will
be as valid as ever.

This is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those Chaos Space Marine and Sisters of Battle players. Both factions have been hanging out for a long time for an update. 4 months later, they are getting told they the update is not longer going to be compatible.

we'll see how it works out, traitor legions always felt stop gapy to me anyway, and hopefully we'll see the general idea of traitor legions carry forth. I think one thing GW definatly took away from 6th/7th was the idea of "chapter tactics" was a popular one

...So 2nd edition, 1page40k, and some new stuff...

Heck, I've been playing since RT days... I welcome our new edition... as long as GW can keep rules nearly free and let people's money go for minis...

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
Nop, the rules for FW will be with GW.
FW newsletter just released : they stop Imperial Armor production.

Did someone got a print screen of the new organisation chart ?

Only their currently out books will not be reprinted. The way you wrote that makes it sound like they won't be making any more books in the future which the newsletter doesn't say.

Caliginous wrote:

Backfire wrote:


But terminators have sucked since... wait, no, they've never been good. In Rogue Trader they were too frail, in 2nd Edition they lacked any kind of real punch for the point cost (firing their storm bolters and producing a hail of jams was always fun!), 3rd Edition and beyond they were too damn frail to compete against the proliferation of AP2 weaponry that has continued for four straight editions.

Wolf Guard Terminators in 2nd edition could annihilate just about every troop type and every vehicle. But otherwise, yes, you are correct. They've never found a decent medium that balanced their fluff with workable rules.

Although that was less about them being Wolf Guard Terminators and more about all of them getting heavy weapons and one of those heavy weapons being the CML back when it had a variable blast size based on how many missiles were fired.

A maximum allocation of WG terminators all firing their CMLs could blanket the deployment zone in S8 ASM-6 templates. The downside was that you had to put them on an overpriced terminator. But yes, they did get around terminators lacking punch, but their power was more to do with an exclusive, powerful weapon with no real hard cap (like every other unit in the game) than the inherent qualities of the unit.

 Mad Morkx wrote:

What happens to my codexes?
The rules in our current range of Warhammer 40,000 codexes aren’t compatible with the new
edition of Warhammer 40,000. These books will be going off sale very soo n. If you do want to pick any up, now’s the time - as all of the great hobby content and background information will
be as valid as ever.

This is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those Chaos Space Marine and Sisters of Battle players. Both factions have been hanging out for a long time for an update. 4 months later, they are getting told they the update is not longer going to be compatible.

Even Forge World models?
Yes, even all of your Warhammer 40,000 Forge World models.

I am interested in knowing how this is going to be updated. Is FW producing an update book?

Don't worry. Us Sisters players didnt really get an update.
We got the exact same codex as always.
Our only update was in an entire different $90 book.

So no skin of the nose of Sisters' players

 Latro_ wrote:
Been no word on psychic powers so i'v tweeted em again its a bit cheeky and they'll no doubt get a bit fed up with the questions but hopefully will get an answer

If I'd hazard a guess it will be like AoS. A few generic 'spells' anyone can use and then unique ones by character. That way you can control the points of the character more effectively and don't have to worry about some spells being more powerful than others and selected at random.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jeff Tracy wrote:
If they have charging work the same way as AoS, this is really going to open up a completely new dynamic. No more charge what you shoot (which always seemed like a strange and limiting rule). Roll for charge, then determine which units you can reach and select one to assault. So if you can engage a tougher unit with you heavy firepower during shooting, and then either move in for the kill, or if you've done enough damage to the unit to render it combat ineffective, choose a different target for you assault. The entire strategies of move and shoot would revise, for the better IMHO.

I suppose it was meant to be an abstraction of a battle. If you are charging into close combat you are generally focussed on that opponent not looking around for others to shoot. It will be interesting to see whether the keep the "you can shoot in combat too". If you can I can imagine that formations that protect the specialist weapons will become common.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'd imagine, if it were me, I'd allow attacks on the charge, but allow them to move away freely, maybe allowing some sort of free strikes if they do. Then you avoid the immersion breaking of a tank fighting in close combat (but the impact damage of driving over stuff is represented) and introduce an element of risk/reward in that if you don't finish off whatever you try and roll over, it's going to hurt.

It would probably work like Screamers in AoS where if you move through a unit, you get to see if you caused any damage as you sauntered on by. Doesn't matter if you end in contact with the unit, as long as you passed through then

I'm really hoping it can new out in about 2 months. If it's 3 I'll be in the US.

I'll still buy it but then I'll be paying crappy US prices.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I'm really hoping it can new out in about 2 months. If it's 3 I'll be in the US.

I'll still buy it but then I'll be paying crappy US prices.

8 weeks from the 22nd April is 17th June....

 Mad Morkx wrote:


This is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those Chaos Space Marine and Sisters of Battle players. Both factions have been hanging out for a long time for an update. 4 months later, they are getting told they the update is not longer going to be compatible.

There was a single new SoB unit that will get updated rules in June, and the last CSM update was focused on existing Rubric marines. Not only will these get totally updated rules in June (along with the entirety of the CSM faction), but there'll be a brand new Death Guard army available soon too.

So to sum up:

Getting a single unit's rules replaced for free after 6 months is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting your sub-faction's rules replaced for free after 7 months is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting a brand new sub-faction released near launch is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting free updated rules for your entire army that have been extensively playtested by TO's for months is "a kick in the teeth"

Right.

You're missing the point.

Waiting 9 years to get you Legion rules back only to have them invalidated 6 months later is a kick in the teeth.

 Pr3Mu5 wrote:

What slows games down at the moment is the shear number of rerolls on saves and jink and hits and wounds and rerolling and rerolling and rerolling ad infinitum. Hopefully that is the kind of stuff that is gone. Even if it does get removed though I'm under no illusion that in a couple years it will be forgotten and rerollable 2++ nonsense will find a way back in for GW to sell new models, because I'm sorry but I'm not fooled by the free core rules idea since GW will rake it in as EVERYONE has to buy a new book from day one and then starts the flood of supplements.

I agree, strange how this seldom comes up. I guess people like rerolling? When I opened current Tau codex the first time, one of the things I groaned was the number of Twin-linked weapons. Argh!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You're missing the point.

Waiting 9 years to get you Legion rules back only to have them invalidated 6 months later is a kick in the teeth.

Oh so they're phasing legion rules completely out in 8E? As opposed to updating them and adding a new legion like all the news says?

 Ronin_eX wrote:

But terminators have sucked since... wait, no, they've never been good. In Rogue Trader they were too frail, in 2nd Edition they lacked any kind of real punch for the point cost (firing their storm bolters and producing a hail of jams was always fun!), 3rd Edition and beyond they were too damn frail to compete against the proliferation of AP2 weaponry that has continued for four straight editions.

ASM or no, Terminators have needed a ground up re-work since Rogue Trader and none of the previous reworks have made them worth taking beyond a short stint in 4th (a very short stint).

I'm not so much worried about Terminators as I am wondering if this will be an edition where they are finally worth taking (and I say this as a stalwart DW lover since Angels of Death dropped). If they still suck, then it is business as usual, if they're good, well that will be a sight to behold.

Assault Terminators were good in 5th...sometimes. Tactical Terminators have never been good during the time I have played.
Their problem is that they don't deal damage. A Storm Bolter for 40pts model is pathetic firepower and they have only 2 close combat attacks. Hey, I hit you 2 times with my WS4 S4 Power Sword...yay. Sure Power Fists are better, but it is usually only like 8 attacks at WS4. Oftentime it happens that I miss six times, then from to wound rolls one is 1, hey, I make 1 wound, do you have 2++ or 3++....?

 xttz wrote:

So to sum up:

Getting a single unit's rules replaced for free after 6 months is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting your sub-faction's rules replaced for free after 7 months is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting a brand new sub-faction released near launch is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting free updated rules for your entire army that have been extensively playtested by TO's for months is "a kick in the teeth"

Right.

Not one of the GW feeds AFAIK has mentioned free unit rules. They have explicitly said that you'll be getting free core rules. They have also explicitly said that If you want your unit rules you'll have to buy the appropriate Grand Alliance equivalent book (probably costed at about 20-30 quid).

Edit:
If I have to speculate based on officially released info we're looking at the following numbers concerning rules expenses:
1. Grand Alliance book on release for your units' rules - Anywhere between 15 and 30 quid. My guess is 25.
2. Appropriate Codex as a future release containing unit rules fixes and new warscrolls for new units. Again probably costed at 25 quid.
3. Yearly General's Handbook for points rebalancing - 15 to 25 quid. My guess is 15.

Give up your hopes for free rules

 xttz wrote:

 Mad Morkx wrote:


This is a bit of a kick in the teeth for those Chaos Space Marine and Sisters of Battle players. Both factions have been hanging out for a long time for an update. 4 months later, they are getting told they the update is not longer going to be compatible.

There was a single new SoB unit that will get updated rules in June, and the last CSM update was focused on existing Rubric marines. Not only will these get totally updated rules in June (along with the entirety of the CSM faction), but there'll be a brand new Death Guard army available soon too.

So to sum up:

Getting a single unit's rules replaced for free after 6 months is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting your sub-faction's rules replaced for free after 7 months is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting a brand new sub-faction released near launch is "a kick in the teeth"

Getting free updated rules for your entire army that have been extensively playtested by TO's for months is "a kick in the teeth"

Right.

I think you need to look at it a bit wider than this. Not everyone can splash the cash all the time; maybe they can only afford to ask for things as Xmas/Birthday presents. If you've been saving for a period of time because that's all you can afford and then after the hard work/presents you buy all those models you wanted then it does become a bit of a kick in the teeth if you might find that the models are less effective (and you would have perhaps bough a larger variety) because the system has changed. That person may then have to wait another six/twelve months for a birthday or Christmas or savings to build up. Not everyone has the capability to change up their army on the whims of GW.

 CoreCommander wrote:
Not one of the GW feeds AFAIK has mentioned free unit rules. They have explicitly said that you'll be getting free core rules.

You cannot play the game without unit rules, just like you cannot play a game without movement rules.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
Not one of the GW feeds AFAIK has mentioned free unit rules. They have explicitly said that you'll be getting free core rules.

You cannot play the game without unit rules, just like you cannot play a game without movement rules.

That is why you'll be given the privilege to buy at day one the 5 new Grand Alliance books containing all the unit rules for a price less than that of a codex. As I said in my edit on the previous post I'm guessing they'll probably go for 25 quid each.