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Lord Kragan wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

macluvin wrote:
So did anything useful come up over 72 pages of comments besides all the arguing and bickering about how 8th Edition is going to either be AoS or not and why that either sucks or rocks? i read 2 pages and feel like thats 99 percent of what i got.

I think to summarise, we had;

AoS Sucks
AoS is awesome
New 40k will be like AoS
New 40k won't be like AoS
New 40k has been playtested extensively
New 40k hasn't been playtested extensively
Land Raiders can be killed by Lasguns
Land Raiders shouldn't be killed by Lasguns
Lots of crying
My precious painted models shouldn't die
I like killing people's precious painted models
Giant Sace Marines are awesome and real
Giant Space Marine pics are fake
AoS still sucks
AoS is still awesome

Did I miss anything?

I'm glad the OP was updated with the video info. Thanks for whoever did that.

How long till GW release 40k? I'm tiring of the panto already. :-(

You missed people pointing out that GW will/may ignore the playtesting or the contrary. As an aside, I'll say you're not the only one by a long shot.

Well do us all a favour and stop reading it, I promise if anyone is critical of AoS I will just imagine you popping up to say they have never played it will save you a lot of time.

Anyway missed one of the list.

People complaimg about speculation based on the rumours/information we have.

Lot'a y'all seem to take real issue with people discussing things.

Methinks a discussion forum ain't really your kinda place.

New video from warhammer tv


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtH49maGHtU

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Since everyone is so obsessed with Lasguns, we can only hope the impending weapons article has their profile.

Considering how aware (and self-aware, and mocking at times) the new Warhammer Community people are, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a jab at all the people freaking out about lasguns blowing up their Land Raiders.

 DynamicCalories wrote:
Of course they have, their prerogative is to sell things to the community. The difference between these people and people selling you a toothbrush is that they play the hobby too, and they don't want it to be a bad game to play for themselves.

So what was the excuse for the folks who came up with 6th and 7th edition who also played the game supposedly according to the white dwarf articles telling us how ZOMG! awesome! they were going to be in allowing Greater Demons to team up with SOB because that's what the community supposedly wanted? And that gave us abilities for free as long as you spent the money on the models because screw the actual in game mechanics? Except for the notable man at the very top, these are mostly the SAME people at GW who enthusiastically sold you the last POS toothbrush that had a bad chemical taste and lost its bristles within a couple of weeks. The onus is on THEM to PROVE they've changed (for the better unlike with 6th and especially Greedhammer $40,000 7th ed); just hinting and pinky swearing they have isn't going to cut it. They've lost the benefit of the doubt with many folks (including myself) and proof is in the actual release of the rules where we see them in their entirety instead of carefully selected vertical slices weeks to months ahead of time. Until they definitely prove otherwise, this is just Mailibu Grimdark Stacy with a new AOS hat.

Don't get me wrong... the changes under the current CEO have been positive (especially after Kirby's disastrous final years which aren't a high hurdle to jump) and I'm open to the possibility that they will get it less wrong this time around and possibly even somewhat right... but I'm not going to jumpt to that assumption based on pre-release marking which has traditionally for years and editions now been wrong. At this point, we're potentially at the fool me three times stage of the idiom (four if you count the horrible initial rollout of AOS). Until they actually release the rules and folks can look at the core mechanics in their entirety, folks like you will have to put up with alot of salt because GW deserves that and more.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Since everyone is so obsessed with Lasguns, we can only hope the impending weapons article has their profile.

Considering how aware (and self-aware, and mocking at times) the new Warhammer Community people are, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a jab at all the people freaking out about lasguns blowing up their Land Raiders.

I hope they include a bespoke lasgun on some unit rule that's specifically called Raider Cracker, or something, that let's a lasgun 1 hit kill a LR once per game.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

macluvin wrote:
So did anything useful come up over 72 pages of comments besides all the arguing and bickering about how 8th Edition is going to either be AoS or not and why that either sucks or rocks? i read 2 pages and feel like thats 99 percent of what i got.

I think to summarise, we had;

AoS Sucks
AoS is awesome
New 40k will be like AoS
New 40k won't be like AoS
New 40k has been playtested extensively
New 40k hasn't been playtested extensively
Land Raiders can be killed by Lasguns
Land Raiders shouldn't be killed by Lasguns
Lots of crying
My precious painted models shouldn't die
I like killing people's precious painted models
Giant Sace Marines are awesome and real
Giant Space Marine pics are fake
AoS still sucks
AoS is still awesome

Did I miss anything?

I'm glad the OP was updated with the video info. Thanks for whoever did that.

How long till GW release 40k? I'm tiring of the panto already. :-(

Pretty close, you did forget the "GW sucks and no one should trust them and nothing good ever comes from them" posts, but I think they qualify for the crying bit ;-).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Guy in a 5 man unit (3 wounds/model) gets hit for 1 wound this turn as he's the only guy visible.
Player moves that guy behind wall and moves an unwounded guy to the previous guy's spot.
That unit takes 2 additional wounds from shooting.
A unit cannot have more than one wounded model at a time (assuming AoS's rules continue for this example).

And? I already covered this in my example. If units are taking wounds, and not models, then this isn't a problem.

The 'and' is if the rules require LOS AND only one model in a unit (ala AoS) can ever any wounds missing at a time, that you get goofy situations and people rotating unwounded stuff into LOS.

So, had a look a their new website thing, and read the entry on necrons.

The Necrons are a race of sentient androids who long ago traded away their souls for the gift of immortality. For millennia beyond counting they have slumbered within their tomb worlds, sprawling crypt-fortresses that house billions-strong armies and ranks of deadly war machines. With every passing year more Necrons arise from this long stasis, and as they awaken so they begin the process of reforging their dynastic empires, which once ruled the galaxy with an iron fist.
To earn their immortality, the Necrontyr sacrificed their very flesh, replacing it with living metal. This renders even the lowliest Necron warrior incredibly resilient and difficult to kill. Yet such strength comes at a terrible cost. The majority of the Necron race are little more than near-mindless thralls, enslaved to the will of cruel Overlords – driven insane by millennia of dreaming stasis – who are still determined to see the Necron Empire rise once more.

Not a bit about them wanting to be fleshy again, or any of that forced tragic drama crap that was in 5th, and makes them out as mindless killing machines once more.
Cautiously optimistic.

tmango wrote:
New video from warhammer tv


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtH49maGHtU

Man... GW really is getting their money's worth out of the Space Marine video game soundtrack. I think most every video has been backed by those tracks (and complaints here as I thought they were particularly good).

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So, had a look a their new website thing, and read the entry on necrons.

The Necrons are a race of sentient androids who long ago traded away their souls for the gift of immortality. For millennia beyond counting they have slumbered within their tomb worlds, sprawling crypt-fortresses that house billions-strong armies and ranks of deadly war machines. With every passing year more Necrons arise from this long stasis, and as they awaken so they begin the process of reforging their dynastic empires, which once ruled the galaxy with an iron fist.
To earn their immortality, the Necrontyr sacrificed their very flesh, replacing it with living metal. This renders even the lowliest Necron warrior incredibly resilient and difficult to kill. Yet such strength comes at a terrible cost. The majority of the Necron race are little more than near-mindless thralls, enslaved to the will of cruel Overlords – driven insane by millennia of dreaming stasis – who are still determined to see the Necron Empire rise once more.

Not a bit about them wanting to be fleshy again, or any of that forced tragic drama crap that was in 5th, and makes them out as mindless killing machines once more.
Cautiously optimistic.

I wouldn't get your hopes too far up.

they begin the process of reforging their dynastic empires, which once ruled the galaxy with an iron fist.

enslaved to the will of cruel Overlords – driven insane by millennia of dreaming stasis – who are still determined to see the Necron Empire rise once more.

Those sentences seem to carry a lot of weight for the 'forced drama' you dislike, and doesn't suggest that they've returned to mindless killing machine status.

krazynadechukr wrote:
...............Probably become more "spirit warfare" maybe have a spirit phase in nature too with fantastical astral projection swirly models of the ghostly realm and that kind of thing.......the negative imaged space map kinda hints at that whole universe reality is flipped vibe.......

The new video, and the community web ("Did you see that massive rent across the middle of the galaxy? That’s new…"), hint at what I thought several days ago.

 warboss wrote:

tmango wrote:
New video from warhammer tv


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtH49maGHtU

Man... GW really is getting their money's worth out of the Space Marine video game soundtrack. I think most every video has been backed by those tracks (and complaints here as I thought they were particularly good).

Might as well get your money's worth! They've been drawing blood from that stone since the game came out.

 warboss wrote:

 DynamicCalories wrote:
Of course they have, their prerogative is to sell things to the community. The difference between these people and people selling you a toothbrush is that they play the hobby too, and they don't want it to be a bad game to play for themselves.

So what was the excuse for the folks who came up with 6th and 7th edition who also played the game supposedly according to the white dwarf articles telling us how ZOMG! awesome! they were going to be in allowing Greater Demons to team up with SOB because that's what the community supposedly wanted? And that gave us abilities for free as long as you spent the money on the models because screw the actual in game mechanics? Except for the notable man at the very top, these are mostly the SAME people at GW who enthusiastically sold you the last POS toothbrush that had a bad chemical taste and lost its bristles within a couple of weeks. The onus is on THEM to PROVE they've changed (for the better unlike with 6th and especially Greedhammer $40,000 7th ed); just hinting and pinky swearing they have isn't going to cut it. They've lost the benefit of the doubt with many folks (including myself) and proof is in the actual release of the rules where we see them in their entirety instead of carefully selected vertical slices weeks to months ahead of time. Until they definitely prove otherwise, this is just Mailibu Grimdark Stacy with a new AOS hat.

Don't get me wrong... the changes under the current CEO have been positive (especially after Kirby's disastrous final years which aren't a high hurdle to jump) and I'm open to the possibility that they will get it less wrong this time around and possibly even somewhat right... but I'm not going to jumpt to that assumption based on pre-release marking which has traditionally for years and editions now been wrong. At this point, we're potentially at the fool me three times stage of the idiom (four if you count the horrible initial rollout of AOS). Until they actually release the rules and folks can look at the core mechanics in their entirety, folks like you will have to put up with alot of salt because GW deserves that and more.

In fairness I did expand on this point with caveats. Context is important. I will put up with plenty of salt, I am optimistic based on what they have reported to us so far, and how open they are being right of f the bat. Like I said, people are entirely within their rights to be conservative about buying new things until the rules are fully out, but I think they're doing their best to be transparent and open right now and I think responding with cynicism at this stage is ultimately as futile as being optimistic, its just more pleasant to be optimistic. If it turns out 8th is terrible, I will be sad because I would like an entry point into 40k, and 7th is not it.

Edit: I'll expand somewhat with an anecdote - I loved the idea of AoS when it first launched and it felt like a prime time to get into the hobby. I was very interested in it, but all I heard were bad things. A year later I took another look off the back of a few weeks of Total Warhammer. Things had clearly improved massively, but certain people were still wholly against it. I did some digging, found free sources for points, learned about the app and the free rules and the new armies and joined a few communities to take a look. It would have been as easy to join in, by cynical, make them "prove" it was good and all that, but a dash of optimism and a sense that GW had actually turned around means I am now happily back enjoying a hobby I had left for 10 years. That's just my take, I am not trying to say other people are wrong, but there's enough misery and cynicism needed to get through daily life, I'd prefer to keep my hobby time as happy as I can!

theocracity wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So, had a look a their new website thing, and read the entry on necrons.

The Necrons are a race of sentient androids who long ago traded away their souls for the gift of immortality. For millennia beyond counting they have slumbered within their tomb worlds, sprawling crypt-fortresses that house billions-strong armies and ranks of deadly war machines. With every passing year more Necrons arise from this long stasis, and as they awaken so they begin the process of reforging their dynastic empires, which once ruled the galaxy with an iron fist.
To earn their immortality, the Necrontyr sacrificed their very flesh, replacing it with living metal. This renders even the lowliest Necron warrior incredibly resilient and difficult to kill. Yet such strength comes at a terrible cost. The majority of the Necron race are little more than near-mindless thralls, enslaved to the will of cruel Overlords – driven insane by millennia of dreaming stasis – who are still determined to see the Necron Empire rise once more.

Not a bit about them wanting to be fleshy again, or any of that forced tragic drama crap that was in 5th, and makes them out as mindless killing machines once more.
Cautiously optimistic.

I wouldn't get your hopes too far up.

they begin the process of reforging their dynastic empires, which once ruled the galaxy with an iron fist.

enslaved to the will of cruel Overlords – driven insane by millennia of dreaming stasis – who are still determined to see the Necron Empire rise once more.

Those sentences seem to carry a lot of weight for the 'forced drama' you dislike, and doesn't suggest that they've returned to mindless killing machine status.

Because we already have a mindless killing machine. The nids. A mindless killing force doesn't need to be repeated.

Images from the video. That buzzsaw looks amazing.

So there you go.

 Kanluwen wrote:

So there you go.

Ah, excellent - I was hoping that they would not give Bolters any AP, simply because that would distort the baseline level of armor pen for weapons.

Those profiles seem good to me. It's interesting that Assault / Heavy / Rapid Fire still seem to be part of the core rules.

Full post here:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Thank you. Flamers look pretty good, nicely done on replacing the template. I see nothing wrong with the Lascannon or Boltgun profiles.

theocracity wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

So there you go.

Ah, excellent - I was hoping that they would not give Bolters any AP, simply because that would distort the baseline level of armor pen for weapons.

Those profiles seem good to me. It's interesting that Assault / Heavy / Rapid Fire still seem to be part of the core rules.

If I had to guess, it's going to be something like:
Assault--Move and fire with no penalties.
Rapid Fire--Standing still lets you double your shots.
Heavy--Move OR fire.

"trust us when we say we may be entering the age of the flamer as the go-to special weapon of infantry squads the galaxy over – let the galaxy burn"

YES! My Salamanders army is ready and willing.

Well hello to the return of Flamer Dominions in Heavy Flamer Immolators. The return is long overdue.

Suddenly I'm happy I've stuck with flamers as my squad special weapons all these years

I love that Marines can save against Lascannons.

edit; and a Terminator that is hit, wounded, and damaged by one still has a 1 in 6 chance of surviving (only rolling 1 wound on d6, and Terminators are 2 wounds)

The wording that suggests a Lascannon is useless against Infantry Squads - does that mean that unlike AoS extra wounds are wasted? That would be good, and stop weapons like that being the go to.

D-Scythes.

I'm not crying.

You're crying!

 DynamicCalories wrote:

In fairness I did expand on this point with caveats. Context is important. I will put up with plenty of salt, I am optimistic based on what they have reported to us so far, and how open they are being right of f the bat. Like I said, people are entirely within their rights to be conservative about buying new things until the rules are fully out, but I think they're doing their best to be transparent and open right now and I think responding with cynicism at this stage is ultimately as futile as being optimistic, its just more pleasant to be optimistic. If it turns out 8th is terrible, I will be sad because I would like an entry point into 40k, and 7th is not it.

Fair enough. I would argue personally that they're doing "better" but not their "best". IMO, their "best" would be to release the rules in advance and truly get community feedback and crowdsourced error finding before the release like many smaller companies do. That to me would be doing their best given the blunders of the last two major releases (the initial AOS rollout and the entirety of 7th edition 40k). YMMV. Talking select community influencers like Reecius over at Frontline and the Nova and Adepticon folks is better than not talking to them but in a large part they cherry picked the half glass full crowd by only talking to them. It's not that they won't give them negative feedback on certain things (the various tourney FAQs being an example) but those folks by virtue of continuing to organize such big events at a minimum at least halfhearted accepted the modern era of greedhammer in both AOS and 40k flavors. Releasing the rules that would be free anyways months ahead of time (and prior to printing) would give them feedback from a completely different portion of their potential fanbase (namely the folks like myself who have chose to let my 20,000pts+ of painted 40k sit unused rather than play/buy the current edition). Input from folks like Crablezworth's Cover Slaves youtube battle report channel who still play but actively constructively criticize instead of primarily promoting is useful as well.