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BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Saw this comment on 4chan
Space Marines "rebelling under Guilliman because the Imperium has rejected the Emperor's vision, confirmed in Thursday's twitch stream"

Can anyone confirm, or troll post?

Troll post. Gulliman leads the IoM now. why would he be leading a rebellion?

Is there anything to confirm this though?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
The worst part of overwatch imho was killing the front couple of models and vastly stretching the charge distance. Often this caused the charge to fail, and the unit just sits there and dies. Overwatch has killed more of my units this way than cc ever did. Hopefully 8e will fix this.

Exactly. Like a squad of Khorne Berserkers or Death Company are going to be like "They got Dan and Bill! Let's go back!".

It's the combination of the random charge and overwatch casualties being taken from the front that hurt.

If charge ranges were consistent, then you could engineer your charging unit so it could eat a few casualties and still be able to charge, or if random charges were still a thing, overwatch casualties can be chosen by the charging player so it doesn't stop their charge dead.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
The worst part of overwatch imho was killing the front couple of models and vastly stretching the charge distance. Often this caused the charge to fail, and the unit just sits there and dies. Overwatch has killed more of my units this way than cc ever did. Hopefully 8e will fix this.

Exactly. Like a squad of Khorne Berserkers or Death Company are going to be like "They got Dan and Bill! Let's go back!".

It's the combination of the random charge and overwatch casualties being taken from the front that hurt.

If charge ranges were consistent, then you could engineer your charging unit so it could eat a few casualties and still be able to charge, or if random charges were still a thing, overwatch casualties can be chosen by the charging player so it doesn't stop their charge dead.

Generally I blamed the casualties from the front for messing up Foot-Slogging Assault Armies like Green Tide Orks. (If you spread out the squads as wide as possible ageist blast templets), you could end up loseing 2-4 inches of your last movement phase to enemy shooting. But saying that Random Charge distance alongside the "from the front causalities" was sort of a "one two punch" is a pretty fair statement TBH.

The removal of all templates alone could mean positioning units to compensate for these mechanics will be MUCH easier. That's if these mechanics are not removed. Random Charge Distance still exists in AoS, but "from the front" causalities as a mechanic is absent from AoS.

 Rippy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Saw this comment on 4chan
Space Marines "rebelling under Guilliman because the Imperium has rejected the Emperor's vision, confirmed in Thursday's twitch stream"

Can anyone confirm, or troll post?

Troll post. Gulliman leads the IoM now. why would he be leading a rebellion?

Is there anything to confirm this though?

Okay just read up on this:

"Guilliman landed on Terra and gained access to the Emperor's Throneroom inside the Imperial Palace. Standing completely alone before the Golden Throne for the next day, Guilliman emerged with a new determination. He gathered the High Lords of Terra and declared that the Imperium would be reorganized and rearmed under his leadership in order to confront the coming threat of Chaos. With that, Guilliman declared himself Lord Commander of the Imperium once more."

Nevermind the 4chan comment I posted.

Eyjio wrote:

Then if that's a cost efficient trade for the assaulter, job done anyway right? Now imagine having 4+ assaults in one turn vs a gun line, which doesn't seem unrealistic at all - you've basically just stopped all those units doing ANYTHING: going for objectives, dealing any damage, repositioning, etc. That's a really big deal, because those units are effectively dead for a turn where you've lost no ground. Being shot in return sucks, but I really doubt, given the playtesters histories of complaining about the useless footslogging assault units, that assault will not be viable or strong.

That is worse than it was in 7th ed for assaulter. Before you were safe from shooting AND got the unit dead. Now unit is safe AND you get shot.

So far no real buffs in rules for assault has been told. Lots of buffs for shooting though

We don't even know about snap shots and etc..

 nintura wrote:
Well, to be fair, psykers are supposed to be walking levels of destruction. Able to summon storms and wipe out armies.

Well sounds at least cast spell count will go up per psyker. Warp dices brought it down and 8th ed will see numbers go up again. Let's see if spells are toned down to compensate.

New WD arrived. Not a single word about 8th, but the teasers for next week are DARKNESS/FAR FUTURE/ONLY WAR

Ragnar69 wrote:
New WD arrived. Not a single word about 8th, but the teasers for next week are DARKNESS/FAR FUTURE/ONLY WAR

something about new bloodbowl team?

From Natfka:

http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/8th-edition-starter-set.html

"Starter Set
The starter set goes live the 17th and is going to be Death Guard Vs. Ultramarines, $120 box. Chaos gets a blob of cultists, a few terminators, a few plague marines, a lord, and drones. Loyalists get 2 tactical squads, a devastator, an assault squad, plus a librarian and a captain. Comes with dice and rulers as well.

In addition, there will be the standard soft cover core rules booklet and a small campaign book. The campaign book has the stats for all the dudes in the box, plus a series of narrative missions that set up the ground floor for the first real story arc of the new edition."

I will be disappointed if a "few" doesn't mean 7 plague marines in this case.

zamerion wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
New WD arrived. Not a single word about 8th, but the teasers for next week are DARKNESS/FAR FUTURE/ONLY WAR

something about new bloodbowl team?

thers's a BB article and rules for white dwarf and black gobo, but no new team as far as as I can see

Argh, incinerator has 2 additional sprues over the furnace for only 5 € more and I literally ordered a furnace just now...

I dislike overwatch and snap shots and would not be sorry to see them gone. Rolling lots of dice hoping for 6s is tedious and slows down the game. On the other hand, I would like some kind of meaningful reaction fire option so that the moment of assault is more critical than the slog forward. But I think you should also have ways to eliminate reaction fire through supporting units.

 kestral wrote:
I dislike overwatch and snap shots and would not be sorry to see them gone. Rolling lots of dice hoping for 6s is tedious and slows down the game. On the other hand, I would like some kind of meaningful reaction fire option so that the moment of assault is more critical than the slog forward. But I think you should also have ways to eliminate reaction fire through supporting units.

Could be spend command point to fire at full BS, with Tau getting some fancy army gimmick for it.

tneva82 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Then if that's a cost efficient trade for the assaulter, job done anyway right? Now imagine having 4+ assaults in one turn vs a gun line, which doesn't seem unrealistic at all - you've basically just stopped all those units doing ANYTHING: going for objectives, dealing any damage, repositioning, etc. That's a really big deal, because those units are effectively dead for a turn where you've lost no ground. Being shot in return sucks, but I really doubt, given the playtesters histories of complaining about the useless footslogging assault units, that assault will not be viable or strong.

That is worse than it was in 7th ed for assaulter. Before you were safe from shooting AND got the unit dead. Now unit is safe AND you get shot.

So far no real buffs in rules for assault has been told. Lots of buffs for shooting though

Attacking first on the charge isn't a buff? Now that horde of orks have a chance of killing some marines before taking casualties.
We'll have to see how morale and assault works. I suspect that they'll bring back consolidate into combat and add something to replace sweeping advance, now that initiative is gone.
Speaking of attacking first on the charge and the lack of initiative, I also suspect that all combat will now be simultaneous. Which means that whoever gets the charge will indeed have the advantage, as that would be the only way of denying your opponent retaliation at full squad strength.

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:

Why on earth would you be wanting to use flamers to take down Titans??

Because in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is no Geneva Convention restricting the use of incendiary weapons, and in all likelihood a good crotch-shot with enhanced Greek Fire would wreak absolute havoc on a very tall target full of IT systems and engines and hydraulics and joints that really don't want to overheat.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:

Why on earth would you be wanting to use flamers to take down Titans??

Because in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is no Geneva Convention restricting the use of incendiary weapons, and in all likelihood a good crotch-shot with enhanced Greek Fire would wreak absolute havoc on a very tall target full of IT systems and engines and hydraulics and joints that really don't want to overheat.

And so a new weapon was born - the incendiary enema.

I think if they remove snap shots,over watch and remove models from the front first, assault would have a huge boost, no need to strike first and that's from a ork player.

Ragnar69 wrote:
New WD arrived. Not a single word about 8th, but the teasers for next week are DARKNESS/FAR FUTURE/ONLY WAR

So jealous of people who get mail on the weekend. I won't get mine until tuesday :(

Just the strike 1st and hidden-klaw is a good boost regardless of overwatch

Keeping in line with AoS rules being imported in 40K, we can foresee the following buffs for assault (some we already know, some are speculation):

- Shooting is less deadly due to the removal of AP. Rend is a more deadly mechanic only on 3+ and 2+ profiles. Same with mortal wounds, they punish high armor profiles.

- *Speculation* When removing models, the controlling player removes a model of his choice.

- *Speculation* Overwatch is no longer a mechanic of the game, but only a special rule of some models.

- No more templates, you can optimize your formations.

- Assault from transports (was this confirmed?)

- More reliable deepstriking *speculation* with assault from deep strike, but requiring a 9" on the charge most of the time.

- Increased speed on some dedicated melee units, like hormagaunts.

- Chargers strike first. Everything else follows an I GO You GO order.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, remember that the meta will shift A LOT due to the new vehicle and mostrous creatures profiles.

Forget High ROF mid strenght weapons as the way to go, you will never stop a dreadnaught or a carnifex with those (32 Str7 AP -1, like HYMP, hits to stop a dreadnaught compared to the 9 required now). High strenght low ROF weapons will be back in the game, giving a lot more breath to non elite assault units.

tneva82 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

Then if that's a cost efficient trade for the assaulter, job done anyway right? Now imagine having 4+ assaults in one turn vs a gun line, which doesn't seem unrealistic at all - you've basically just stopped all those units doing ANYTHING: going for objectives, dealing any damage, repositioning, etc. That's a really big deal, because those units are effectively dead for a turn where you've lost no ground. Being shot in return sucks, but I really doubt, given the playtesters histories of complaining about the useless footslogging assault units, that assault will not be viable or strong.

That is worse than it was in 7th ed for assaulter. Before you were safe from shooting AND got the unit dead. Now unit is safe AND you get shot.

So far no real buffs in rules for assault has been told. Lots of buffs for shooting though

What are you talking about?

No real buffs for assault, apart from charges hit 1st, charge out of any vehicle, fall back rules that leave defenders worthless.

Not seen any buffs for shooting so far?

It seems to me, the perfect place to put Overwatch now is as a command point ability. You have to have a whole list of things that feel tactical. Spending a command point to suddenly fire a squad in overwatch seems correct.

Striking first if you charge becomes amazing if you don't have to take casualties from the front anymore. Even with the whole retreat mechanic the fact that you still make at least one unit worthless for a full turn and you get to take full advantage of your assault units that (in the case of Orks especially) classically would get cut down before they could strike is a good trade I feel. People forget that shooting the unit that just got put in the open from a friendly retreat only works if you have the units to shoot them - the game seems to be about making assault as a whole better, deincentivizing death-stars and making numerous assault units more worthwhile. Not having to take casualties from the front (I assume this will be the case) will make charging so much easier, and once you get there, even units like Hormagaunts with sufficient numbers should still tear through most other Troop units with little difficulty. Context is everything.

Consider also that the AP system is gone; Bolters no longer ignore 5+ armour saves....which is what most light assault units in the game like Orks, Hormagaunts, Acolyte Hybrids, etc have. People really need to think deeply about what this means for horde armies now.

If anything, shooting has taken a slight nerf with the reduction of AP for basic weapons. Which is a step in the right direction in my opinion.

Even an ork saves on 6+ from basic weapons now

Which is huge. A gun that used to be Strength 4 AP5 now grants Ork Boyz an armour save. It's probably a safe bet that the same is true of Gauss Rifles, Pulse Rifles, Splinter Rifles, Shuriken Catapults, etc. i.e. the basic guns of all armies. A 6+ isn't great but it's *something* and there may very well be easy ways to access boosted armour saves through cover.

Also, as others have pointed out, weapons like Scatter Lasers aren't going to do well against new vehicles because it takes crap loads more shots than it used to for them to kill something like a Dreadnought, meaning Bright Lances and the equivalents for other armies will probably start popping up more. That's good news for non-monster/vehicle units and as a result should make even your average assault unit harder to deal with.

Yeah we're heading back to drive the tank closer so I can hit them with my sword teritory.

Meh. Saw that coming with there choice of testers. I would guess horde assault armies will be the goto until the new codes start coming out.

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Why on earth would you be wanting to use flamers to take down Titans??

Well, I heard flamers are good against hordes, so if I'm facing a horde of titans I need to be able to bring them down using flamers.
Also, this:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Because in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is no Geneva Convention restricting the use of incendiary weapons, and in all likelihood a good crotch-shot with enhanced Greek Fire would wreak absolute havoc on a very tall target full of IT systems and engines and hydraulics and joints that really don't want to overheat.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rippy wrote:
"Guilliman landed on Terra and gained access to the Emperor's Throneroom inside the Imperial Palace. Standing completely alone before the Golden Throne for the next day, Guilliman emerged with a new determination. He gathered the High Lords of Terra and declared that the Imperium would be reorganized and rearmed under his leadership in order to confront the coming threat of Chaos. With that, Guilliman declared himself Lord Commander of the Imperium once more."

This sucks. Having a guy in charge of the Imperium sucks big time already. Having this guy be the big burly space marine++ that doesn't even fit right in the grimdark due to the horus heresy thing about them being enlightened atheist sucks even more.

SeanDrake wrote:
Yeah we're heading back to drive the tank closer so I can hit them with my sword teritory.

Meh. Saw that coming with there choice of testers. I would guess horde assault armies will be the goto until the new codes start coming out.

Assault needed it though. In 7th Edition there's almost no point trying to assault with traditional assault armies, meaning death-stars, Genestealer Cult, Skyhammers, etc are the only real competitive assault options. I'd say it's what the game needs as so many units and factions just weren't worth it before, Orks and Tyranids especially needed the love.

Shooting always had an inherent advantage over assault due to the ranges involved. They needed to address this. And making it so that shooting is geneally a 'light attack' and assault is more hard hitting is a good way to go. You should be rewarded for making it into assault.