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I said this in the thread in 40k general discussion. It would not be cost effective to either GW or the fanbase to just make the marines bigger. I like the idea of a unit for marines that is more powerful and bigger than normal marines, but I wish it was more than just hey these are bigger marines

Oh it is more. It's also "they're made by Roboute so they're perfect and he's better than the Emperor why don't you like him yet?", too.

It does feel a bit cheap that all the old Space Marines we know and love are now essentially outmoded and have had their position taken.
Grey Knights did similar, and when Custodes essentially dwarfed them it was the same.

On the bright side, they still do look nice.

 TheLumberJack wrote:
I like the idea of a unit for marines that is more powerful and bigger than normal marines, but I wish it was more than just hey these are bigger marines

I mean, Centurions, Terminators, Grey Knights, Custodes, etc don't already fit that niche...?

Seriously guys, come on!

RULE #1 - BE POLITE.

RULE #2 - STAY ON TOPIC.

Let's go!!!

 Melissia wrote:
Oh it is more. It's also "they're made by Roboute so they're perfect and he's better than the Emperor why don't you like him yet?", too.

Wow that sounds horrible. I'm glad we aren't stuck with whichever game you're referencing here! The thread is about Warhammer 40k though, so best to stick what is going on with that.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:
I like the idea of a unit for marines that is more powerful and bigger than normal marines, but I wish it was more than just hey these are bigger marines

I mean, Centurions, Terminators, Grey Knights, Custodes, etc don't already fit that niche...?

I guess they do. I really don't know what I want

I fully expect these guys to take the place of the existing marines in the next year or so. Rules for the current Marines will remain to represent veterans or hold-outs, but releases will turn towards making these guys the standard for marine size in the future. That way, they'll line up much more so with their Stormcast counterparts in AoS.

 Melissia wrote:
Oh it is more. It's also "they're made by Roboute so they're perfect and he's better than the Emperor why don't you like him yet?", too.

Assuming he has had much of a role in their creation. Could just be the fruits of whatever Cawl was working on and Rob's just given him the green light...

That is to say we don't yet know if they are made from his gene seed or not.


As for improving on the Emperor's work, well he wasn't exactly infallible! He made the Thunder Warriors, and binned them, he made the Marines from the Primarch's, then made the Grey Knights once their flaws became apparent, it being possible to make a new type of Marine isn't a mind boggling jump. Maybe it'll even be a plan of his he didn't have time to pull the trigger on before he got stuck on the Throne...

The worst thing I see with all of this is the power-creep in-universe scaling even more.

A day will come where 40k will turn into a Shonen like Naruto or DragonBall, where everyone keep gettin more and more powerfull until the point it becomes absurd.

Lol.

That shark's been well and truly jumped already.

Oh God please no.
Why GW? Every time wheit seems like you've reached the bottom and the only way is up, every time when you seem to be getting your together and start to redeem yourself you somehow manage to fing a new low with even more moronic decisions and complete disregard for any common sense, logic or reason.
We had space marines, best of mankind, genetically engineered to endure and prevail even the worst the galaxy has to offer.
We had deathwatch, who are basically space marines special forces.
We had grey knights who literally began with 12 of the best people in the whole imperium personally selected by Malcador.
We had custodians who are pretty much hand-crafted - elite among elite.

You think that's enough elite dudes for essentially one faction?
NAH, HERE ARE SOME MEGA-SUPER-DUPER-ELITE SPACE MARENIS FOR YA CUZ WE R LAZY AND WE CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO MAKE SOMETHING ORIGINAL AND INTERESTING.
At this point I'm just waiting for those 40$ dise shakers to pop up any minute now.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Lol.

That shark's been well and truly jumped already.

BrianDavion wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Ruin wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If anyone is protesting at this but didn't rage-quit at new Land Raider variants, new fliers, new new and new old Dreadnoughts, or especially frickin' Centurions then yeah... complaining about new power armour is a bit... odd?

What most people seem to mean is "wahhh I thought I had the strongest army nooooo".

I strongly suggest you look up what a retcon is, as the Numarines are not one of them. All of the above were...

For serious, your aware that its not new power armor right? Nobody would care if it was new power armor. They are literally new bigger stronger faster tougher space marines. They also exist at the same time as the current space marines, its not a retcon bigger space marine, its an entirely new better space marine.

except we dunno if thats true or not, for all we know these guys are just spacemarines in new power armor, and the break through is just "we've managed to recreate the more efficant marine creation process of the Heresy, now that Gulliman's told us how!"

No, the trailer outright tells us this isn't just more Space Marines in new power armour. It says "geneforged beyond the capabilities of their bretheren, armed and equiped with weapons befiting their stature as the truest heirs of the Primarch's legacies". They're Super Spacemarines. They're better in every way, and based off the trailer, there will be a lot of them.

[edit: delete this post]

I'm here wainting for the Civil War leaded by Space Wolves that don't want to be replaced as useless weapons by this new breed of space marines. Please GW

Reading this thread almost makes me think I'm the only one excited by this. If space marines get considerably taller and more powerful in game, then they'll finally start to reflect the way that the fluff portrays them. About time!

Also, current space marine minis are awful. They look like they were designed by aliens who had only read vague descriptions of what human bodies look like.

I hope, over the next few years, all space marine ranges get replaced with new, bigger and better miniatures.

Mark the date, today is when you realized that Roboute Guilliman putting on a leather jacket and jumping over a shark pool wasn't actually cool.

When you have a brand, one of the most important rules is that you don't water down the brand. Lets take James Bond. It is well estabilished that double-oh agents are Her Majesty's finest operatives, and James Bond is the most legendary of them all. Now imagine that MGM expands the franchise with triple-oh agents who are even more skilled and special, and best of them is 0001 Mary Sue who is stronger, smarter, suavier and just generally superior to James Bond every way. And the studio explains "oh, you can still enjoy James Bond movies, they are not going anywhere, we are just expanding the brand with something even better".

How well would that go over?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Ruin wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If anyone is protesting at this but didn't rage-quit at new Land Raider variants, new fliers, new new and new old Dreadnoughts, or especially frickin' Centurions then yeah... complaining about new power armour is a bit... odd?

What most people seem to mean is "wahhh I thought I had the strongest army nooooo".

I strongly suggest you look up what a retcon is, as the Numarines are not one of them. All of the above were...

For serious, your aware that its not new power armor right? Nobody would care if it was new power armor. They are literally new bigger stronger faster tougher space marines. They also exist at the same time as the current space marines, its not a retcon bigger space marine, its an entirely new better space marine.

except we dunno if thats true or not, for all we know these guys are just spacemarines in new power armor, and the break through is just "we've managed to recreate the more efficant marine creation process of the Heresy, now that Gulliman's told us how!"

No, the trailer outright tells us this isn't just more Space Marines in new power armour. It says "geneforged beyond the capabilities of their bretheren, armed and equiped with weapons befiting their stature as the truest heirs of the Primarch's legacies". They're Super Spacemarines. They're better in every way, and based off the trailer, there will be a lot of them.

We knew that since Hastings post. It's only today that some people now believe that, as it was roundly derided before despite his track record.

It's still not materially different. New, stronger, tougher Marine toys has been a thing regularly. This is the latest iteration of that.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Reading this thread almost makes me think I'm the only one excited by this. If space marines get considerably taller and more powerful in game, then they'll finally start to reflect the way that the fluff portrays them. About time!

Also, current space marine minis are awful. They look like they were designed by aliens who had only read vague descriptions of what human bodies look like.

I hope, over the next few years, all space marine ranges get replaced with new, bigger and better miniatures.

That's not what's happening. We actually have official proof that's not what's happening.

Why do people still think that's what's happening?

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Reading this thread almost makes me think I'm the only one excited by this. If space marines get considerably taller and more powerful in game, then they'll finally start to reflect the way that the fluff portrays them. About time!

Also, current space marine minis are awful. They look like they were designed by aliens who had only read vague descriptions of what human bodies look like.

I hope, over the next few years, all space marine ranges get replaced with new, bigger and better miniatures.

This isn't making it so the Marine kits and rules reflect their in-universe depiction better. This is usurping the current Marines in both Lore and models by making new Super Spacemarines who are just better overall.

Backfire wrote:
Mark the date, today is when you realized that Roboute Guilliman putting on a leather jacket and jumping over a shark pool wasn't actually cool.

When you have a brand, one of the most important rules is that you don't water down the brand. Lets take James Bond. It is well estabilished that double-oh agents are Her Majesty's finest operatives, and James Bond is the most legendary of them all. Now imagine that MGM expands the franchise with triple-oh agents who are even more skilled and special, and best of them is 0001 Mary Sue who is stronger, smarter, suavier and just generally superior to James Bond every way. And the studio explains "oh, you can still enjoy James Bond movies, they are not going anywhere, we are just expanding the brand with something even better".

How well would that go over?

Ita not the same thing at all. One is a character being replaced by another character. This is some Space Marines being replaced by other Space Marines. It doesn't water down a brand, it's right on brand. It's more a Doctor Who analogy - the lead regenerates into a familiar-but-different form to refresh the brand for a new audience.

Marines are not getting replaced.

Instead, we're getting SuperMarines who are better than your Marines, your Marines are last year's news, nobody cares about your Marines because we have SuperMarines now who are more Marine than your Marines ever were.

It's the ultimate logical extension of Warhammer 30k lore.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Reading this thread almost makes me think I'm the only one excited by this. If space marines get considerably taller and more powerful in game, then they'll finally start to reflect the way that the fluff portrays them. About time!

Also, current space marine minis are awful. They look like they were designed by aliens who had only read vague descriptions of what human bodies look like.

I hope, over the next few years, all space marine ranges get replaced with new, bigger and better miniatures.

That's not what's happening. We actually have official proof that's not what's happening.

Why do people still think that's what's happening?

Do we?

Do we what?

Do we have proof that all Marine ranges being replaced with larger Marines is not happening? I don't think we have anything like that.

We have confirmation that they're own thing. They can't be both.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Mark the date, today is when you realized that Roboute Guilliman putting on a leather jacket and jumping over a shark pool wasn't actually cool.

When you have a brand, one of the most important rules is that you don't water down the brand. Lets take James Bond. It is well estabilished that double-oh agents are Her Majesty's finest operatives, and James Bond is the most legendary of them all. Now imagine that MGM expands the franchise with triple-oh agents who are even more skilled and special, and best of them is 0001 Mary Sue who is stronger, smarter, suavier and just generally superior to James Bond every way. And the studio explains "oh, you can still enjoy James Bond movies, they are not going anywhere, we are just expanding the brand with something even better".

How well would that go over?

Ita not the same thing at all. One is a character being replaced by another character. This is some Space Marines being replaced by other Space Marines. It doesn't water down a brand, it's right on brand. It's more a Doctor Who analogy - the lead regenerates into a familiar-but-different form to refresh the brand for a new audience.

Except the Doctor regenerating doesn't undermine the previous incarnations, make them look inferior and take away from the point of the character and setting in the first place. Previous Space Marines were supposed to be the very best but even they weren't quite good enough to save the Imperium, with a defining trait of the setting being that it's pretty much hopeless and there isn't some magical way that everything will turn out perfectly alright without great loss and sacrifice, or heroism. The introduction of Super Marines who are supposedly better in every way, in large numbers, out of nowhere takes away from that whole idea.

Every 'good' thing the Imperium had had an ancompying downside befitting the setting as a whole. Space Marines? Superhuman warriors who can take on pretty much anything, but they're flawed and there aren't too many of them, with even the larger Chapters facing difficulties but continuing as best they can. Custodes? Even better than Marines 1v1, but there are so very, very few of them and they're too busy guarding Terra. Deathwatch and Grey Knights? The best of the very best, but with such limited numbers and being contronned by specialist organizations, they aren't available that often. This meant the acts of bravery and heroism had to be by the 'ordinary' characters or Space Marines, but with the introduction of these new Marines those downsides are gone.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Mark the date, today is when you realized that Roboute Guilliman putting on a leather jacket and jumping over a shark pool wasn't actually cool.

When you have a brand, one of the most important rules is that you don't water down the brand. Lets take James Bond. It is well estabilished that double-oh agents are Her Majesty's finest operatives, and James Bond is the most legendary of them all. Now imagine that MGM expands the franchise with triple-oh agents who are even more skilled and special, and best of them is 0001 Mary Sue who is stronger, smarter, suavier and just generally superior to James Bond every way. And the studio explains "oh, you can still enjoy James Bond movies, they are not going anywhere, we are just expanding the brand with something even better".

How well would that go over?

Its not the same thing at all. One is a character being replaced by another character.

You need to read more carefully - my analogy was not about James Bond being retired, he would still exist in the movies, just being inferior to Agent Sue.

The MarineMarines are explicitly stated to be reinforcements for your regular Marines, not replacements.