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Unless of course those 8 missiles destroyed the targets they were aiming at.
Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground. You'd think key military targets would have more people in them.
£7,000,000 that we don't have when anyone asks for funding for anything socialist.
According to ARES, consulting with Western officials and local sources, that is not the case. Rather all the missiles hit their targets successfully. The Syrians sent 40 missiles in response to the Western attack, though they were only launched after the Western missiles struck their targets. Additionally they note that the Syrian missiles were fired without guidance, with the possible intention for them to land on civilian targets - thus causing casualties which they could blame on the West. Meanwhile the Western sources say that civilian casualties do not correlate with their observations at the time of the missiles exploding. Videos showing Syrian missiles intercepting the Western ones are fake; rather they're taken from unrelated conflicts.
Given that the guys firing those missiles presumably know what they're doing, I'd take their word over some tin pot dictator who's main form of communication is propaganda and lies. Its not in the West's interests to cause excessive collateral damage here, but it most definitely is for Assad. I've no clue why people are spouting off information from Syrian and Russian government sources as though they're undeniable facts, given again, both of those country's media run on lies. "Oh, but its in the West's interests for this not to have gone tits up". Yes, sure, again though, in a battle between a literal lying machine vs any source I'll put more weight in the latter before making my own judgements.
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Ketara wrote: To keep tying it back to more relevant UK politics, I get really annoyed at this bad habit of firing off overly missiles to indicate international displeasure. It achieves little and costs a fortune. We saved a fraction of money by making all the disabled people go through their bloody ATOS rechecks, and that tiny saving is wiped out in a moment's fit of pique because some nutter dropped a barrel of chlorine on the other side of the world.
Politicians really do know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
My concern over the conflict is that whilst people say it doesn't effect us at all, the influence of Syrian Refugees has been a big topic in politics for years. The solution presented, other than just banning immigration, has been to attempt to resolve the conflict creating those migrants. The West has been attempting to do that for years, initially planning to over throw the Assad government - before that was vetoed-, before reigning back and just targeting certain military sites in an attempt to stem the flow. However, that's all it could do. In the current situation the war's just going to continue, with the results of Western intervention being minimal (we've pussy footed about the issue so much that our main allies in the region have been wiped out, giving the opposition the excuse that Assad's the only viable option).
How likely is it that all those migrants will return to Syria if the war were to end? How many of them moved out of the country due to Assad's actions, and wouldn't want to go back if he were still in control? Though of course, should Assad be overthrown, what percentage of the population who've thrown their lot in with him would either leave the country (unlikely given their Nationalist bent), or continue the war in a guerrilla fashion (in which case they'd be welcome to join the club among the others). With Assad maintaining power that's perhaps the best option for creating a unified faction in that state - though purely through his forces destroying all of the opposition. In which case, if we allow that happen, how will world opinions shift? Namely in the case that the West backed down from the Russians, and allowed them free reign over that war which we had previously been attempting to curtail ourselves. The implication of Russia coming out as the "victor" here could have positive effects for the Kremlin's propaganda machine, though equally lead to some upheaval here (Corbyn would have a field day over not wanting to stir an ascendant Bear).
The current situation at least is set to dictate foreign policy for years to come. With all this debate over further involvement we could be in for some turmoil in parliament, which could effect future similar decisions in relation to acting against Russia's proxies. My observation of the situation makes it com across as though the West is doing its best to not push Russia too far, whom meanwhile are doing what they can to try their luck without causing a full scale war (which plays more into their hands than ours). The hope I suppose is that sanctions will slowly bleed Syria and Russia, regardless of the propaganda machine's effects on their morale, however what effect their actions then have on demoralising our own populace is definitely a concern.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 00:04:45
Unless of course those 8 missiles destroyed the targets they were aiming at.
Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground. You'd think key military targets would have more people in them.
£7,000,000 that we don't have when anyone asks for funding for anything socialist.
The syrian government claims to have shot down 71 of the 105 missiles launched, but with no evidence and most conventional sources point to them hitting.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Unless of course those 8 missiles destroyed the targets they were aiming at.
Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground. You'd think key military targets would have more people in them.
£7,000,000 that we don't have when anyone asks for funding for anything socialist.
The syrian government claims to have shot down 71 of the 105 missiles launched, but with no evidence and most conventional sources point to them hitting.
Fair point. I assumed our government was lying but I guess I need to assume everyone was lying.
That said; surely blowing up chemical weapons storage facilities would result in a lot of nasty debris? They say they mitigated for that bit beyond relying on them being isolated I can't see how
Herzlos wrote: Fair point. I assumed our government was lying but I guess I need to assume everyone was lying.
That said; surely blowing up chemical weapons storage facilities would result in a lot of nasty debris? They say they mitigated for that bit beyond relying on them being isolated I can't see how
You use a type of munitions capable of destroying the agents in question. Many chemical agents are unstable and so need to be stored in specific conditions to not degrade.
Using a missile with a warhead which generates extremely high temperatures, for example, could force a chemical reaction in a stored weapon, changing it into less harmful chemicals.
Also, there would be absolutely no point in our government lying about the effectiveness of the strikes as the lies would inevitably be revealed once a satellite flew over and took pictures. Then they'd be slaughtered in the press and parliament.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 09:45:51
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Herzlos wrote: Fair point. I assumed our government was lying but I guess I need to assume everyone was lying.
I think that if you've reached the point where you automatically disbelieve our government and believe Assad's, you might want to re-evaluate your source credibility. We don't spend six figure sums on advanced missile systems just so that a low key player like Assad could shoot them down.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 10:08:11
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
TL/DR:A vast amount of UK import/export goes through Rottedam. This is fine as long as we are in a customs union with Holland. The customs union is one of the Brexit "red lines" so we can't be.
Well. If it's going to be causing trouble to EU solution is no cargo toward UK through Rotterdam. UK wants cargo, get them on separate boat going direct to UK!
The first is that goods to/from the far east go on super large ships which can't get into UK ports. That's why the goods go through Rotterdam, where they are transferred into smaller ships for delivery to the UK. (Or the the other way round for exports.) This problem won't go away unless the UK builds a larger port, and even then the UK may not have the volume of trade on its own to justify the larger ships.
The second problem is that many goods to/from the EU also go through Rotterdam, just because it is one of the biggest and best port for shipping between the UK and the continent. This includes many perishable goods such as flowers, which lose value quickly if delayed.
In both cases, the Port of Rotterdam authorities are worried about the time it will take to process all these kinds of goods through customs.
Herzlos wrote: Fair point. I assumed our government was lying but I guess I need to assume everyone was lying.
I think that if you've reached the point where you automatically disbelieve our government and believe Assad's, you might want to re-evaluate your source credibility. We don't spend six figure sums on advanced missile systems just so that a low key player like Assad could shoot them down.
I think it's more the general evidence since 2010 points to a level of incompetence in our government which makes bodging a possibly illegal strike quite within the realms of possibility.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
....you think Gordon Brown was that much more competent than Cameron/Clegg? Heck, or Tony Blair, master of spin, mirrors, and spending money? That's aside from the bizare assumptions regarding whatever bum is in No.10 affecting MBDA's missile design capabilities.
I try and remember that the Government, like the Civil Service, and every other part of the machine that runs this place, is made up of lots of people of varying complexity and motive. And that generally speaking, most of us want to do the right thing. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we bugger it up spectacularly, sometimes needs get subordinated to other objectives. Just distrusting the Government on principle (whatever party is sitting in there) is precisely what the Russian intelligence network wants us to do. So I generally tend to try and give the benefit of the doubt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 11:51:46
TL/DR: The Home Office ignored warnings from immigration staff and pulped its archive of Caribbean immigration landing cards, making it impossible to determine if these people entered the UK before 1971 and thereby had a right to permanent residency.
Whether or not it was the result of malice and deliberate Government policy, or merely stupidity and bureaucratic incompetence...it is despicable to put the onus on these immigrants to provide documents to prove their immigration status when the Government knows full well that those documents have been destroyed (whether deliberately or accidentally).
The Government has to make a complete U-turn and grant amnesty for all migrants affected by this scandal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 17:21:29
However, to interject my own opinion, it's shameful that this woman is getting 7.5 years, which probably means 5 given how overcrowded our prisons are.
This person stabbed, burnt, jugged (pouring boiling water on someone), starved him and controlled every aspect of his life. This isn't just a 'they hit me' case of domestic abuse. This is sick torture. This woman is a danger to society, and even if not considered so, has done something truly horrific worthy of a lengthy punishment if not to keep her away from people. Life imprisonment in my books.
Dare I say the continual sexism in the courts when it comes to domestic abuse may play a factor, but it seems over time this is getting better.
Who knows, but either way they should have locked her up and thrown away the key.
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5625663/Battered-boyfriend-stabbed-starved-controlling-girlfriend-tells-ordeal.html
I know it's the daily mail, which some see as the next Der Stürmer, but it's just a news story, no opinion.
However, to interject my own opinion, it's shameful that this woman is getting 7.5 years, which probably means 5 given how overcrowded our prisons are.
This person stabbed, burnt, jugged (pouring boiling water on someone), starved him and controlled every aspect of his life. This isn't just a 'they hit me' case of domestic abuse. This is sick torture. This woman is a danger to society, and even if not considered so, has done something truly horrific worthy of a lengthy punishment if not to keep her away from people. Life imprisonment in my books.
Dare I say the continual sexism in the courts when it comes to domestic abuse may play a factor, but it seems over time this is getting better.
Who knows, but either way they should have locked her up and thrown away the key.
She sounds like a narcissist. No doubt if he'd ever defended himself physically, he would have been the one going to jail.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5625663/Battered-boyfriend-stabbed-starved-controlling-girlfriend-tells-ordeal.html
I know it's the daily mail, which some see as the next Der Stürmer, but it's just a news story, no opinion.
However, to interject my own opinion, it's shameful that this woman is getting 7.5 years, which probably means 5 given how overcrowded our prisons are.
This person stabbed, burnt, jugged (pouring boiling water on someone), starved him and controlled every aspect of his life. This isn't just a 'they hit me' case of domestic abuse. This is sick torture. This woman is a danger to society, and even if not considered so, has done something truly horrific worthy of a lengthy punishment if not to keep her away from people. Life imprisonment in my books.
Dare I say the continual sexism in the courts when it comes to domestic abuse may play a factor, but it seems over time this is getting better.
Who knows, but either way they should have locked her up and thrown away the key.
She sounds like a narcissist. No doubt if he'd ever defended himself physically, he would have been the one going to jail.
According to the Metro (so citation needed) the abused has Hydrocephalus so probably was vulnerable at least at times if not all the time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Whether or not it was the result of malice and deliberate Government policy, or merely stupidity and bureaucratic incompetence...it is despicable to put the onus on these immigrants to provide documents to prove their immigration status when the Government knows full well that those documents have been destroyed (whether deliberately or accidentally).
The Government has to make a complete U-turn and grant amnesty for all migrants affected by this scandal.
The question I want to know is whether this is 'isolated' or systemic within the Home Office. If the latter it may only be the 'tip' of the iceberg and we have a bigoted and racist government allowing systematic ejection of anyone not British. I wonder whether the current policy may be apologise if you are caught. It's not like there are not other reports of people trying to be thrown out for stupid reason. Most of the time it is isolated cases we here about :-
However my suspicion is that there are many that don't get to the papers/news.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 19:26:03
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
It isn't the first case like this to crop up. I remember seeing at least two others in the news over the last decade or so; where a group of people suddenly find that their immigration status was never actually resolved, but nobody ever clocked it. Then suddenly twenty years later it gets raised again, they do a big protest, and when it gets enough publicity, the HO realises they screwed up and issues a blanket amnesty/apology.
In organisations of this size, paperwork always gets lost or shuffled the wrong way. All it takes is someone being on leave and the case passed over, a sudden departure before the replacement is up to speed, something not quite fitting into anyone's department and it getting thrown back and forth until it dies, a badly phrased rule or procedure being misinterpreted. A good administrator can try and minimise these things, but so long as humans are represented in the system somewhere, it will recur.
In virtually every job I've ever held, I've always found there's stack of paper everyone forgot, or a job no-one ever got around to. A box shoved to one side and forgotten, a process done a certain illogical way 'because it's always been done like that'. I'm sure we all have stories of that nature. Unfortunately though, in more important professions than mine, these errors usually results in someone getting badly stuffed up somewhere, whereas that's not the case for the rest of us.
No, I wouldn't start trying to squint deeper into this case right now, any more than I would someone finding a fossilised rat behind the photocopier. It was a procedural thing that got started by many separate hands working at odds, it got flagged to the right people, and now it's been resolved. If it happens again next week, I might worry, but for the most part? Crap like this happens in any large administrative structure; especially ones with so many complex rules and processes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 20:51:19
couldn't get the words out of his mouth.
Same thing with Venezuela, just says 'I condemn all violence' but refuses to specifically say I condemn the Venezuelan government's actions.
But when it comes to this and similar things, there's no pussyfooting around
And he's great friends with many IRA leaders
Not to mention "our friends in hamas" and his marching with hezbolla.
Not the kind of man I'd trust to be in charge of this country's national security. It's alright when it's his side of the workers' struggle against the capitalist West, but when it's the evil imperialist establishment, big no no.
I don't trust him as far as I can throw him, and I think I'd struggle to raise him above my head.
IRA? Check
Venuzela? Check
Hamas? Check
You missed how he's an anti-semite and how Diane Abbot can't do sums.
Nearly there on the Daily Mail Jezza bollocks bingo.
It really helps if you read around a bit more to really get some scary old gubbins.
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Herzlos wrote: The cynic in me wonders if they are trying to get rid of them as they hit retirement age and start costing money.
Watched Newsnight earlier and I imagine that the compensation that maybe be paid out by the Govt could add up to a tidy sum, and rightly so.
Especially as all of these people were tax payers, contributed a lifetime of NI contributions and alongside their families have helped rebuild the UK in some way after the war. They, or their parents, were invited here to help, were citizens of the British Empire and were promised citizen status.
They're as British as the next person and they've been treated appallingly.
The HO maybe a huge and faceless burocracy and working for the Govt for 20 years myself I completely understand how the system can get fouled up, but when they do make mistakes such as this, it needs to be rectified as swiftly possible, and every means to rectify any damage caused seen to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/18 00:10:00
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
And as for anti-semitism in the Labour Party, I'm just waiting for 2022 so I can be gassed by our glorious socialist saviours in momentum. Maybe to you it's just daily mail scaremongering but to me (a person who doesn't read the mail except when it pops up on msm) it's pretty serious, and aside from the Marxists at jewdas, the community is pretty shook.
Automatically Appended Next Post: University is going to be so much fun as a right of centre jew. If I get through it without being stoned I'll count myself lucky, and I don't mean the drug kind.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/18 00:19:08
iGuy91 wrote: You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
Elbows wrote: You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote: Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
University is going to be so much fun as a right of centre jew. If I get through it without being stoned I'll count myself lucky, and I don't mean the drug kind.
University will be absolutely fine. It is incredibly easy to get through Uni without engaging in politics and all universities have jewish societies.
Stop reading right wing garbage about university being a left wing indoctrination centre where you will be harassed and singled out for having a different opinion and just go and enjoy yourself.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Ketara wrote: It isn't the first case like this to crop up. I remember seeing at least two others in the news over the last decade or so; where a group of people suddenly find that their immigration status was never actually resolved, but nobody ever clocked it. Then suddenly twenty years later it gets raised again, they do a big protest, and when it gets enough publicity, the HO realises they screwed up and issues a blanket amnesty/apology.
In organisations of this size, paperwork always gets lost or shuffled the wrong way. All it takes is someone being on leave and the case passed over, a sudden departure before the replacement is up to speed, something not quite fitting into anyone's department and it getting thrown back and forth until it dies, a badly phrased rule or procedure being misinterpreted. A good administrator can try and minimise these things, but so long as humans are represented in the system somewhere, it will recur.
In virtually every job I've ever held, I've always found there's stack of paper everyone forgot, or a job no-one ever got around to. A box shoved to one side and forgotten, a process done a certain illogical way 'because it's always been done like that'. I'm sure we all have stories of that nature. Unfortunately though, in more important professions than mine, these errors usually results in someone getting badly stuffed up somewhere, whereas that's not the case for the rest of us.
No, I wouldn't start trying to squint deeper into this case right now, any more than I would someone finding a fossilised rat behind the photocopier. It was a procedural thing that got started by many separate hands working at odds, it got flagged to the right people, and now it's been resolved. If it happens again next week, I might worry, but for the most part? Crap like this happens in any large administrative structure; especially ones with so many complex rules and processes.
This is all correct.
The difference with the current immigration situation is that the Conservatives under Cameron and May (first as Home Secretary then PM) took a specific decision to set a 100,000 person target -- known to be unrealistic -- and built out a much more hostile rule system to try and enforce it.
The issue is well covered in Laura Kuennsberg's piece on the subject.
The first is that goods to/from the far east go on super large ships which can't get into UK ports. That's why the goods go through Rotterdam, where they are transferred into smaller ships for delivery to the UK. (Or the the other way round for exports.) This problem won't go away unless the UK builds a larger port, and even then the UK may not have the volume of trade on its own to justify the larger ships.
The second problem is that many goods to/from the EU also go through Rotterdam, just because it is one of the biggest and best port for shipping between the UK and the continent. This includes many perishable goods such as flowers, which lose value quickly if delayed.
In both cases, the Port of Rotterdam authorities are worried about the time it will take to process all these kinds of goods through customs.
So again. If this is going to be trouble to EU then solution is simple. No UK headed stuff through Rotterdam. If that means UK doesn't get them because they don't have sufficient port tough luck. Build one fast. Or pay to EU enough that they can use the Rotterdam port allowing sufficient resource increasement to ensure EU doesn't get hurt by UK loads swamping it.
Well. Rotterdam refuses all items toward UK. What UK then does...No concern of EU. UK wanted it's sovereigny. Sort out yourself problems it creates. Build up your own port for your own stuff.
That or you pay up EU for sufficient workforce to handle your case without interfering with non-UK contact.
If this results in UK being blocked from Asia stuff...Well that's too bad. UK voted for it.
It's not that Rotterdam will refuse to service .uk. It's that hauliers will need to charge more to cover the longer delays and subsequent increase in trucks.
If they don't got in the port they'll have to wait outside.
Uk traffic will need a reduced priority to stop time sensitive deliveries to the rest of the planet.
tneva82 wrote: Well. Rotterdam refuses all items toward UK. What UK then does...No concern of EU. UK wanted it's sovereigny. Sort out yourself problems it creates. Build up your own port for your own stuff.
That or you pay up EU for sufficient workforce to handle your case without interfering with non-UK contact.
If this results in UK being blocked from Asia stuff...Well that's too bad. UK voted for it.
These solutions are answers to the potential problems caused by Brexit, however none of them work in the short to medium term, and Rotterdam doesn't want to lose the UK trade.
