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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

Could be from the core rules. I mean weapons that multiple armies have access to showed up in the core rules in the past.

I'd hope so, otherwise wow... and you thought AoS unit sheets were huge!

Datasheet tomorrow will probably key us in on that, too.

Or they could just have datasheets that are unique except for weapons, which are referenced elsewhere in the book.

Then when they sell those datacards they've been making lately, one card is the weapon list card.

Simply the same as it is now, weapon types in the main rule book/ leaflet and the same information that is on the codex entry now is copy/paste --> the 'warscroll'.

changemod wrote:
Or they could just have datasheets that are unique except for weapons, which are referenced elsewhere in the book.

Then when they sell those datacards they've been making lately, one card is the weapon list card.

That's what I expect. I still think a wargear section for each army will be in each of the books. Better there than cluttering up the core rulebook.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

I hope so, means that I don't have to keep opening different books.

Edit: I mean for all weapons etc.

If they make the Dataseet double sided, they can totally put in it all the rules for the model, their keywords, they stats, and in the back, the rules for all of their weapons. And make a generic armoury in the basic rules, but that way is more fast.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd hope so, otherwise wow... and you thought AoS unit sheets were huge!

And the data sheets are a total waste.

they have tons of room for pictures, etc but half the card is blank space

I fully expect every datasheet which has a Meltagun to have the Meltagun special rule.

Otherwise, why have datasheets in the first place?

Yes the result will mean lots of duplication, but it will speed up playtime dramatically.

2 quick questions from someone who only recently heard about the new rules being released:

1. All I have heard about release date is "not yet but this year" - have we heard anything more concrete than that?

2. I use to be in the hobby but haven't been in for a while, and haven't got any models, rules etc. Am I better off waiting for the new rules and such to release or just jumping in?

dalloskid wrote:
2 quick questions from someone who only recently heard about the new rules being released:

1. All I have heard about release date is "not yet but this year" - have we heard anything more concrete than that?

2. I use to be in the hobby but haven't been in for a while, and haven't got any models, rules etc. Am I better off waiting for the new rules and such to release or just jumping in?

1. Nothing concrete but we're expecting early June.

2. Waiting isn't a bad choice. I bought some models for an army (building Black Templars) but outside of the basic Marines I haven't tried to branch out to anything else yet because it's impossible to know what could be fun to play in the new edition.

If you get anything now, keep it simple and don't go hog wild on stuff yet. That'll keep you from feeling like you wasted an investment.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

 privateer4hire wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

For some armies that's a lot of entries for wargear under every single unit.

If the common weapons aren't in the core rules I'd expect them to be listed in a single place for each army for easy stats reference tbh.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

For some armies that's a lot of entries for wargear under every single unit.

If the common weapons aren't in the core rules I'd expect them to be listed in a single place for each army for easy stats reference tbh.

Easier stat reference would be just to have it on the datasheet whenever a melta weapon is an option.

Whether its too much to include will depend on how busy the rest of that datasheet is...

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

For some armies that's a lot of entries for wargear under every single unit.

If the common weapons aren't in the core rules I'd expect them to be listed in a single place for each army for easy stats reference tbh.

Easier stat reference would be just to have it on the datasheet whenever a melta weapon is an option.

Whether its too much to include will depend on how busy the rest of that datasheet is...

No way that would work. Sounds cool for Tau which have like 3 options but a tactical squad has dozens of possible weapon profiles when you list all the special, heavy, pistols and close combat weapons the unit could take.

I don't know how datacards work in AoS, though it would be cool to just have an "armory" card, with detailed rules, and then all the units.
Wouldn't mind cards with all info as well though. Why can't it be both? :(

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

For some armies that's a lot of entries for wargear under every single unit.

If the common weapons aren't in the core rules I'd expect them to be listed in a single place for each army for easy stats reference tbh.

Yeah, given the commonalities of a lot of the weapons available within an army, and the range of potential weapon options for even pretty basic units I would think something like a weapon data sheet for each army - much like we have now in a codex. Then each unit would have in their datasheet something like, you get 4 marines all with bolters, bolt pistols and grenades and 1 sergeant with the following options: x, y, z. One model may replace their bolter with one of the following options: a,b,c. You may add five models to the unit. If you 10 models a second model may replace their bolter with one of the following options: a,b,c. No weapon profiles, but one source for all marine weapon profiles.

Main reason I think this is that the predominant theme seems to be simplicity, and much easier for a player (new ones particularly) to know that page 3 of their book tells them what a bolter does, and all that it does, rather than looking at the datasheet for every unit to check exactly what each weapon weapon does. It also avoids that age old problem of info being in multiple spots and one varies. What then? Is my melta gun on Sternguard actually 2D6 damage, or is it a misprint? Easier to have a common source of info for what a marine melta gun looks like, and then if you want special snowflake rules for one unit simply give them a unit rule to achieve that.

For myself the reason I have no issue in AoS with all weapons available to a unit being recorded on their datasheet is that even units with a mad variety only have maybe 4 or 5 weapons, and the chance to hit is tied to the unit. For 40K a marine unit would need what 20 odd lines? And their chance to hit is outside of this profile.

Apparently on Facebook they said the datasheet focus article will feature Rubric marines.

 Rippy wrote:
Apparently on Facebook they said the datasheet focus article will feature Rubric marines.

To make up for how little we learned in the CSM one yeah. We'll know here soon how the datasheets look for the new game, plus if they give us the entire thingnith points we might begin to infer some points costing for other stuff.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Apparently on Facebook they said the datasheet focus article will feature Rubric marines.

To make up for how little we learned in the CSM one yeah. We'll know here soon how the datasheets look for the new game, plus if they give us the entire thingnith points we might begin to infer some points costing for other stuff.

Yeah hopefully the Death Guard and 1k son's faction focus articles are in the near future as well

 Kirasu wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... that Meltagun profile. The whole Melta special rule is written out on its profile. They're not going to do that for every single instance of the Meltagun where ever its printed, are they?

If AoS is any guide, then likely. Is that problematic if they do?

For some armies that's a lot of entries for wargear under every single unit.

If the common weapons aren't in the core rules I'd expect them to be listed in a single place for each army for easy stats reference tbh.

Easier stat reference would be just to have it on the datasheet whenever a melta weapon is an option.

Whether its too much to include will depend on how busy the rest of that datasheet is...

No way that would work. Sounds cool for Tau which have like 3 options but a tactical squad has dozens of possible weapon profiles when you list all the special, heavy, pistols and close combat weapons the unit could take.

Thats say something about the imaginative capacities of GW about not-Ork Xenos in related to the Empire factions, doesn't it?

 Kirasu wrote:

No way that would work. Sounds cool for Tau which have like 3 options but a tactical squad has dozens of possible weapon profiles when you list all the special, heavy, pistols and close combat weapons the unit could take.

Assuming they still have those options, and aren't limited to, say, what comes in the box...

 insaniak wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

No way that would work. Sounds cool for Tau which have like 3 options but a tactical squad has dozens of possible weapon profiles when you list all the special, heavy, pistols and close combat weapons the unit could take.

Assuming they still have those options, and aren't limited to, say, what comes in the box...

They have said that all current wargear and options they currently can have they still will be able to.
For future releases though, who knows...

 insaniak wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

No way that would work. Sounds cool for Tau which have like 3 options but a tactical squad has dozens of possible weapon profiles when you list all the special, heavy, pistols and close combat weapons the unit could take.

Assuming they still have those options, and aren't limited to, say, what comes in the box...

According to the FB team, no option in a unit or on a model is going to become illegal. So it's all down to points costs and rules changes to balance the armies instead of removing wargear and unit options.

I suspect some melee weapons will be combined - I mean, is a chain sword and chain axe really that different? If they were the same cost and effect, would it matter?

Also, a lot of folks are saying "I don't know it works in AOS...".

Well, go look. The rules are there, they are free...just click on them. They are VERY insightful.

For example, here is the warscroll for a unit with six weapons in their profile - works just fine.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-freeguild-outriders-en.pdf

Plus there's the concern about 'bespoke' weapons that was brought up when they originally previewed the weapons.

Is the Meltagun stat we're seeing the same Meltagun that anyone with a Meltagun has? Or is this the Space Marine Meltagun? Or is it the Tactical Squad Meltagun, and the Imperial Guard Meltagun has different rules?

I'm sure the Sisters of Battle Meltagun will have worse stats.

Dark Eldar focus when? I want to know how they balance them out since they are not great beneficiaries of the twin-link rule right now. I'm curious to see how poison works.

DrRansom wrote:
I fully expect every datasheet which has a Meltagun to have the Meltagun special rule.

Otherwise, why have datasheets in the first place?

Yes the result will mean lots of duplication, but it will speed up playtime dramatically.

That's exactly how AoS works - all of the special rules are right there on the unit warscroll. You don't cross-reference back to the Codex, which then criss-cross-reerences all over the Rulebook.

OTOH, it wouldn't have hurt if GW had simply gone with a single page worth of TRULY Universal Special Rules, and a half page of Codex-specific Universal Special Rules. But that's OK.