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 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Davor wrote:
I thought that would have been an Lion El'Johnson rule.

Lion isn't a tactical genius is he?

Perhaps not, but he's definitely not trapped in a Necron pokeball.

It'll be interesting to have a Daemon Prince that generates Command Points.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Davor wrote:
I thought that would have been an Lion El'Johnson rule.

Lion isn't a tactical genius is he?

Perhaps not, but he's definitely not trapped in a Necron pokeball.

It'll be interesting to have a Daemon Prince that generates Command Points.

You mean Magnus? He's pretty darn smart, and wiggly-fingered. Should be worth some.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I wonder if we'll see a lot of what are currently re-rolls turned into "roll two dice and discard the lowest" in 8th?

Or, add +1 to the result.

Seriously, go look at AoS and see what GW did there.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Yeah, open topped was only necessary whilst vehicles didn't have a toughness value or save and needed something to make them more vulnerable to a fullly armoured version.

Funny how people think there wasn't way to differentiate survivability before...And not like open topped didn't have other functions as well oh no...Oh wait except it did.


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 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I wonder if we'll see a lot of what are currently re-rolls turned into "roll two dice and discard the lowest" in 8th?

Or, add +1 to the result.

Seriously, go look at AoS and see what GW did there.

Though with limitations of d6 rerolls have important role in allowing more granularity than flat modifiers have.

Carnikang wrote:

Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Davor wrote:
I thought that would have been an Lion El'Johnson rule.

Lion isn't a tactical genius is he?

Perhaps not, but he's definitely not trapped in a Necron pokeball.

It'll be interesting to have a Daemon Prince that generates Command Points.

You mean Magnus? He's pretty darn smart, and wiggly-fingered. Should be worth some.

I would think that having leaders that give Command Points invalidates it being an encouragement to make less one dimensional lists.

 Carnikang wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
It'll be interesting to have a Daemon Prince that generates Command Points.

You mean Magnus? He's pretty darn smart, and wiggly-fingered. Should be worth some.

Actually, I was thinking Lion El'Johnson.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I wonder if we'll see a lot of what are currently re-rolls turned into "roll two dice and discard the lowest" in 8th?

Or, add +1 to the result.

Seriously, go look at AoS and see what GW did there.

I've read The General's Handbook and the free books for Orcs & Goblins, The Empire and Warriors of Chaos. I bought the Disciples of Tzeentch book but I've only read 2/3 of it. I got the Kharadron Overlords book but I've only skimmed it. I still haven't played a game. I've got an old WHFB Orcs & Goblins army, but I'm kind of waiting to see if GW decides to do anything with standard Orruks & Grots before taking the time to paint it up.

I like most of what I've read when it comes to AoS. Most of the pieces that they're bringing over to 8th sound like good ideas, and a few of the things I wasn't as sure about with AoS it sounds like they're not bringing over.

I'd expect both Farsight and Shadowsun to hand out at least one extra command point each, considering that they're both supposed to be tactical geniuses. Possibly also the generic Tau commander, but that seems less likely.

What's more likely is that generating an extra command point will be a warlord trait, or whatever the 8th edition equivalent is.

tneva82 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Yeah, open topped was only necessary whilst vehicles didn't have a toughness value or save and needed something to make them more vulnerable to a fullly armoured version.

Funny how people think there wasn't way to differentiate survivability before...And not like open topped didn't have other functions as well oh no...Oh wait except it did.

If open topped allowed assaulting from vehicles at the cost of protection, it's not needed now as assaulting from transports is rumoured to be back. If it affected how many passengers could fire out, that can be a note on the datasheet. There's no need to have a separate unit type now.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If open topped allowed assaulting from vehicles at the cost of protection, it's not needed now as assaulting from transports is rumoured to be back. If it affected how many passengers could fire out, that can be a note on the datasheet. There's no need to have a separate unit type now.

But is the assault from vehicles done in what way? Can you move vehicle, unload troops and charge? Do you suffer some penalties? If no to first and yes to 2nd open topped can still work.

If you can assault from all now i'd imagine they'll offset traditional open topped vehicles with a much better move characteristic.

more likely though i guess they'll just streamline everything so open topped isnt a thing e.g. pts adjustments for overall weaker stats

i think transports is the next big one i'm looking forward to them talking about, will probably really set the tone as to how the edition is gonna play out. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say land raiders are gonna be a go-to transport now but i'm expecting them to be 300ish pts

Spoletta wrote:
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 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
The wording of the Counter Offensive strategem is pretty wierd, can anyone (preferably with AoS experience) explain what it is supposed to do? Seems wierd to be able to fight a unit somehow that already charged and had its combat resolved (what is the worth in that? Does it have to be another unit locked in the same combat?).

It is used only when you are charged by multiple units. Usually, all those units would be able to attack before you do, with the stratagem only one attacks, then you can choose one unit to fight before the other charging attackers are resolved.

Is it? Do we know yet CC doesn't work like in AOS where you don't have to solve one combat fully before moving to other? In AOS for example with player A and B combats:

A1+A2 vs B1, A3 vs B2+B3

A could pick A1, then B picks up 3, A2, B1, A3, B2(okay bad order but case in point).

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
The wording of the Counter Offensive strategem is pretty wierd, can anyone (preferably with AoS experience) explain what it is supposed to do? Seems wierd to be able to fight a unit somehow that already charged and had its combat resolved (what is the worth in that? Does it have to be another unit locked in the same combat?).

It is used only when you are charged by multiple units. Usually, all those units would be able to attack before you do, with the stratagem only one attacks, then you can choose one unit to fight before the other charging attackers are resolved.

Is it? Do we know yet CC doesn't work like in AOS where you don't have to solve one combat fully before moving to other? In AOS for example with player A and B combats:

A1+A2 vs B1, A3 vs B2+B3

A could pick A1, then B picks up 3, A2, B1, A3, B2(okay bad order but case in point).

It's not about multiple-unit combats.

All Charging units strike first. Let's say three units charged, three different areas of board. They'd normally all swing first. This allows you to interrupt that a little and possibly kill/weaken a charging unit before it strikes, say.

Then after Chargers are done, other units in CC alternate, again battlefield wide.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's not about multiple-unit combats.

All Charging units strike first. Let's say three units charged, three different areas of board. They'd normally all swing first. This allows you to interrupt that a little and possibly kill/weaken a charging unit before it strikes, say.

Then after Chargers are done, other units in CC alternate, again battlefield wide.

Yes but if you don't have to solve one combat fully who says you can't pick up unit in another combat?

tneva82 wrote:
Yes but if you don't have to solve one combat fully who says you can't pick up unit in another combat?

That seems to be the point?

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's not about multiple-unit combats.

All Charging units strike first. Let's say three units charged, three different areas of board. They'd normally all swing first. This allows you to interrupt that a little and possibly kill/weaken a charging unit before it strikes, say.

Then after Chargers are done, other units in CC alternate, again battlefield wide.

Yes but if you don't have to solve one combat fully who says you can't pick up unit in another combat?

I don't understand what you mean exactly, but it reads as you could choose any of your units to attack, not just vs a charger. I just outlined one of the more logical uses. Is that what you meant?

 KommissarKiln wrote:
He's probably free to generate as many CPs as he wants in Trazyn's museum. Gone, but never forgotten

Oh come on. The guy can sneak in an Imperial Knight or a bunch of Baneblade, I'm sure he will be able to sneak out something as small and stealthy as an imperial guard commander .

 JohnnyHell wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's not about multiple-unit combats.

All Charging units strike first. Let's say three units charged, three different areas of board. They'd normally all swing first. This allows you to interrupt that a little and possibly kill/weaken a charging unit before it strikes, say.

Then after Chargers are done, other units in CC alternate, again battlefield wide.

Yes but if you don't have to solve one combat fully who says you can't pick up unit in another combat?

I don't understand what you mean exactly, but it reads as you could choose any of your units to attack, not just vs a charger. I just outlined one of the more logical uses. Is that what you meant?

Well say enemy has charged 2 squads separately. You might be able to wreck the other squad in separate combat alltogether. So might not be only when it's 2 vs 1 but say 1vs1 in 2 parts.

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's not about multiple-unit combats.

All Charging units strike first. Let's say three units charged, three different areas of board. They'd normally all swing first. This allows you to interrupt that a little and possibly kill/weaken a charging unit before it strikes, say.

Then after Chargers are done, other units in CC alternate, again battlefield wide.

Yes but if you don't have to solve one combat fully who says you can't pick up unit in another combat?

I don't understand what you mean exactly, but it reads as you could choose any of your units to attack, not just vs a charger. I just outlined one of the more logical uses. Is that what you meant?

Well say enemy has charged 2 squads separately. You might be able to wreck the other squad in separate combat alltogether. So might not be only when it's 2 vs 1 but say 1vs1 in 2 parts.

Indeed we are talking about the latter scenario, multiple 1v1 situations.
When the same unit assault more than one squad (and is the only unit assaulting that turn), you can't stop it. You will have to wait until he completed all his attacks.

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Forgive me if this is OT, but I'm kind of puzzled.

Of all the races of 40k, 3 stand out as psyker neutral - Necrons, Dark Eldar and Tau. The Necrons because they don't have a soul or flesh, the Dark Eldar because they dispose anyone who does psychic powers due to their history, and the Tau due to their young age.

But, does that mean these armies will get psychic defenses, rather than a psychic phase? My worry is that for all the strengths these armies have, it might be easy to counter with some psychic shenanigans, with no way themselves to stop it.

My hope is that in the case of the Necrons and Tau they get built in resilience to psychic attacks/effects, and the Dark Eldar get some... Painful gear to put the hurt on psykers.

Your thoughts guys?

Whatever matches their narrative, I say. Tau don't understand psykers, so I say they shouldn't have any defenses against them. I mean, after all, isn't massive long range firepower and moving cover that reflects projectiles enough?

Necrons definitely, absolutely should. Don't they have anti-psyker abilities already? If they don't then that's criminal.

Dark Eldar... They do have the ability to repress psykers, but only through surgery. It actually takes a null to repress psykers on the field, and their fluff made it clear that for whatever reason they don't have those and have had to rely on the Imperium for a supply of nulls.

Also, why is everyone forgetting the Mechanicus? They don't have any pskers. But they have access to Imperial Assassins.

Tau having stuff to help negate psychic attacks could be part of their Fifth or even the lost Fourth Sphere Expansion tech. You never know what they'll cook up!


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Spoletta wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It's not about multiple-unit combats.

All Charging units strike first. Let's say three units charged, three different areas of board. They'd normally all swing first. This allows you to interrupt that a little and possibly kill/weaken a charging unit before it strikes, say.

Then after Chargers are done, other units in CC alternate, again battlefield wide.

Yes but if you don't have to solve one combat fully who says you can't pick up unit in another combat?

I don't understand what you mean exactly, but it reads as you could choose any of your units to attack, not just vs a charger. I just outlined one of the more logical uses. Is that what you meant?

Well say enemy has charged 2 squads separately. You might be able to wreck the other squad in separate combat alltogether. So might not be only when it's 2 vs 1 but say 1vs1 in 2 parts.

Indeed we are talking about the latter scenario, multiple 1v1 situations.
When the same unit assault more than one squad (and is the only unit assaulting that turn), you can't stop it. You will have to wait until he completed all his attacks.

You can't interrupt a squad's action, no. But you can attack before opponent's second charging unit, interrupting regular turn flow.

I will say the Tau are beginning to learn more of the "mind-science" as they call it and while poorly understood the Ethereals are having top secret research done no doubt. I suspect the safer of these inventions could be used to generate simple psychic nullifying fields as a justification for some unique wargear or whatever reason you need. There is a decent BS lore reason if they ever need it. I'm sure GW can pay for something much better lol.

Mongoose Matt: Oh, and new 40k apparently 'end of the month', but no specific date given.

Regarding pre-orders retailers get.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/723873.page#9362798

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Forgive me if this is OT, but I'm kind of puzzled.

Of all the races of 40k, 3 stand out as psyker neutral - Necrons, Dark Eldar and Tau. The Necrons because they don't have a soul or flesh, the Dark Eldar because they dispose anyone who does psychic powers due to their history, and the Tau due to their young age.

But, does that mean these armies will get psychic defenses, rather than a psychic phase? My worry is that for all the strengths these armies have, it might be easy to counter with some psychic shenanigans, with no way themselves to stop it.

My hope is that in the case of the Necrons and Tau they get built in resilience to psychic attacks/effects, and the Dark Eldar get some... Painful gear to put the hurt on psykers.

Your thoughts guys?

Whatever matches their narrative, I say. Tau don't understand psykers, so I say they shouldn't have any defenses against them. I mean, after all, isn't massive long range firepower and moving cover that reflects projectiles enough?

Necrons definitely, absolutely should. Don't they have anti-psyker abilities already? If they don't then that's criminal.

Dark Eldar... They do have the ability to repress psykers, but only through surgery. It actually takes a null to repress psykers on the field, and their fluff made it clear that for whatever reason they don't have those and have had to rely on the Imperium for a supply of nulls.

Also, why is everyone forgetting the Mechanicus? They don't have any pskers. But they have access to Imperial Assassins.

The Tau simply do not understand and do not have ways of defending against Psykers (apart from firepower) unless they bring in client races, potentially including humans - which would be cool and could have some fun effects when it all goes wrong. Also they now have their own Genestealer Cults so that's a option for psychic support Depending on how Ethereals work they may not want to much research on "mind science".

Necrons def do

Dark Eldar have nasty devices that can effect psykers - they suppress their own abilities but that does not mean they can endure Blanks any better than anyone else.

Nids have the Shadow in the Warp - one would hope that's a faction rule.

Sisters of Battle should be resistant but don't have special defences other than His Will

Betting on a stratagem for sisters allowing them to attempt to deny even though they aren't psykers.

Also, yay end of the month for pre-order!!! (If it is true)

You say that like Stratagems for sisters won't just be their acts of faith. Some of the stronger girls might get the ability to deny psychic casts. "Priests" in Age of Sigmar can deny spells but can't cast any themselves.

I do like the idea of the tau doing secret research into...mind science? Using other species (including humans) as the test subjects.

I still think they should gain pysker auxiliaries in the form of a new alien race. And just as an aside, those breacher teams were a missed opportunity to introduce Gue'vesa auxiliaries.

tneva82 wrote:
Mongoose Matt: Oh, and new 40k apparently 'end of the month', but no specific date given.

Regarding pre-orders retailers get.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/723873.page#9362798

How long are pre-orders normally up for?

Assuming everyone's current best guess is correct and the release date is June 17th, if pre-orders go up next weekend (27th/28th) that only leaves 3 weeks for stocking worldwide of what is most likely to be the year's biggest release.

Retail logistics are not really my field - is this feasible?

3 week preorder doesn't match their normal m.o.

I think it'll launch at warhammer fest, available on the day and shipping that week. They've been hyping for a few weeks already, they aren't going to have a big preorder window - there's little left to say about it

Bear in mind that doesn't mean we'll see a box set released that weekend, probably just a book and some supplements

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Command Point systems seems pretty straight forward. I like the idea of an in-game resource that you have to use tactically.

That said, they're called Strategems, no? So perhaps we can see some that are more, y'know, strategic.

Ok fine....tactigems!

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
I'd expect both Farsight and Shadowsun to hand out at least one extra command point each, considering that they're both supposed to be tactical geniuses. Possibly also the generic Tau commander, but that seems less likely.

What's more likely is that generating an extra command point will be a warlord trait, or whatever the 8th edition equivalent is.

Has it not been confirmed that warlord traits are returning?