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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As a general response to replies to my earlier post, I will say this:

Space Marines are supposed to be humanity's finest. Genetics, equipment, training etc etc

And yet, GW seems to think that an average joe with a flashlight and some MDF armour, can survive a boltgun shot from a Space Marine...

By that logic, a middle aged, overweight guy like me, should be able to go toe to toe with a bad ass from Delta Force, SAS, Spetnaz, insert your special forces of choice here...

And here we are, with a new unit and a new boltgun that basic space marines should be getting anyway. If I buy a new car, I don't expect to have to turn up with a steering wheel and spark plugs.

I'm 400 miles away from GW HQ, but I can smell the horsegak from up here in the Scottish Highlands!

This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.

The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.

 kestral wrote:
Any guesses on how "Fly" will be different from "Flyer"? Is a thunderhawk basically a giant tau drone with a good move score?

I'm fairly sure they will remain seperate things.

Iirc, flyers (as in aircraft) will have to move a certain distance every turn. I can't remember which article mentioned this, however.

"Fly" will probably refer to things that can move in and out of combat (Battle suits, Assault Marines, winged daemons etc.)

 Ghaz wrote:

 kestral wrote:
Any guesses on how "Fly" will be different from "Flyer"? Is a thunderhawk basically a giant tau drone with a good move score?

I figure 'Fly' will just allow you to ignore Difficult and Dangerous terrain (if that's still a thing )

Reallllly wish they didnt use that keyword.

looks odd imho. i think jump or jet would of been fine but now im imagining these things up like a mile high flying around like an actual flyer.

ERJAK wrote:


This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.

The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.

Oooh, ooh, maybe it suddenly protects guardsmen because RG (who many guardsman consider their "spiritual liege") bestowed better flak armor upon all the guard across all the worlds. Sure. Why not?

In AoS, Flying just lets you move over units and terrain as if they weren't there Much like Jump or Jet does in 7th, might have new rules in NewHammer.

ERJAK wrote:


This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.

The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.

FAAC. I like that.

My guess is Fly will just act like a Jump Pack - allowing you to move over models and such.

 Desubot wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 kestral wrote:
Any guesses on how "Fly" will be different from "Flyer"? Is a thunderhawk basically a giant tau drone with a good move score?

I figure 'Fly' will just allow you to ignore Difficult and Dangerous terrain (if that's still a thing )

Reallllly wish they didnt use that keyword.

looks odd imho. i think jump or jet would of been fine but now im imagining these things up like a mile high flying around like an actual flyer.

Honestly, it's not a huge deal.

I would expect "Fly" will allow for you to do what Requizen says(move over intervening models and terrain).

I said it elsewhere, but I think this is another case of "Bad article is bad". There's no mention of the Sniper Drone being able to leave a Combat and fire without penalty despite it also having the "Fly" keyword.

I fully expect there to be a couple of things going on with this:
a) Suits have the ability to move and fire with no penalty.
b) Suits have an ability to leave combat and function normally.
c) Suits have an ability that allows for you to get far enough away to be able to fire(remember that you cannot fire if a unit is within a certain distance of you).

Requizen wrote:
In AoS, Flying just lets you move over units and terrain as if they weren't there Much like Jump or Jet does in 7th, might have new rules in NewHammer.

Yeah functionally it works. and i bet flyers will get something like momentum that forces them to move a certain way like they hinted at

i just dont like the idea of my drones "flying" more like hovering ya know?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Honestly, it's not a huge deal.

I would expect "Fly" will allow for you to do what Requizen says(move over intervening models and terrain).

I said it elsewhere, but I think this is another case of "Bad article is bad". There's no mention of the Sniper Drone being able to leave a Combat and fire without penalty despite it also having the "Fly" keyword.

I fully expect there to be a couple of things going on with this:
a) Suits have the ability to move and fire with no penalty.
b) Suits have an ability to leave combat and function normally.
c) Suits have an ability that allows for you to get far enough away to be able to fire(remember that you cannot fire if a unit is within a certain distance of you).

Well its a teaser they cant give everything away that easily. and im sure a lot of the blog writers have their hands tied.

im expecting crisis suits will have some special walking battle ship type rule that is a little weaker. like can move out of combat and shoot but at a partial negative like -1 to hit or something. that requires friendly units to help bolster up like marker lights. though flamers are sounding intresting since auto hitting

ERJAK wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As a general response to replies to my earlier post, I will say this:

Space Marines are supposed to be humanity's finest. Genetics, equipment, training etc etc

And yet, GW seems to think that an average joe with a flashlight and some MDF armour, can survive a boltgun shot from a Space Marine...

By that logic, a middle aged, overweight guy like me, should be able to go toe to toe with a bad ass from Delta Force, SAS, Spetnaz, insert your special forces of choice here...

And here we are, with a new unit and a new boltgun that basic space marines should be getting anyway. If I buy a new car, I don't expect to have to turn up with a steering wheel and spark plugs.

I'm 400 miles away from GW HQ, but I can smell the horsegak from up here in the Scottish Highlands!

This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.

The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.

I'm a fluff player at heart, but this is definitely one of those cases where the rules are more important. Laying fluff significance on a particular implementation of gameplay mechanics is a recipe for disappointment every time.

Baseline infantry guns should not get armor penetration as standard because it skews the game and makes infantry armor pointless. If a new fancy elite unit comes out whose standard weapons do have AP, and they pay for it properly in points and loadout flexibility, that's fine. If that means that flak armor protects against Boltguns on a 5+ and Bolt Rifles on a 6+, then that's an insignificant fluff price to pay.

The models look great, really looking forward to seeing more of the range(especially the new Dread and tank). Knowing that the existing heads and shoulder pads are compatible is also good news.

Fingers crossed that the fluff around these guys is at least semi decent. How they interact with the rest of the Imperium and the repercussions of there creation have a lot of potential.

I welcome these models. Now us modellers have the option of having "buy in a box" true scale marines without having to resort to the painstaking process of converting them one by one.

All of the spacemarine players crying about being given new models to collect (I really don't like space marines but these ones are amazing) and complaing about fluff problems, while all of the ork players are sitting here sweating about weather or not we will actually be able to play a game and win, comical.

Honestly if there's any models that's ever made me want to start marines it's these guys I just hope to God people don't flock to them because exno sales will drop and it will give GW no incentive to make any new models for xeno players.

Ask your self truthfully would you be as happy collecting and playing if all you ever fought was other spacemarines painted a different colour?

Edited after seeing mod note.

I sure like that new plasma gun, I hope these primaris marines also get a grav gun and flamer. Just cause these roided out versions of the old weapons look so cool. I'm content with the rules i'm seeing for them so far. And the idea that these are more expensive is good. This means I might be able to actual build and assemble a proper 40k army. So its looking like less work to get a functioning army. I'll probably get the starter and then work up to 1k points cause I prefer smaller games.

I already know i'm going to get these, it's inevitable at this point. The hardest thing is going to be picking a chaper.

 Desubot wrote:

Requizen wrote:
In AoS, Flying just lets you move over units and terrain as if they weren't there Much like Jump or Jet does in 7th, might have new rules in NewHammer.

Yeah functionally it works. and i bet flyers will get something like momentum that forces them to move a certain way like they hinted at

i just dont like the idea of my drones "flying" more like hovering ya know?

Makes more sense than jump or jetpack stuff just moving in rocket powered bunny hops.

Tau look like its the same old problem. You will see boring armies composed of resilient platforms mounting heavy guns and everything else will be second tier and rarely seen. I could be wrong but there is nothing in the article to suggest otherwise.

Tau have always suffered for being so one dimensional. If shooting is good (like in 7th) then they will expect to table you in 3-4 turns unless you have a very good alpha strike or a GW recognised broken deathstar arrangement. If it isn't as good then Tau will just generally be seen as a weak army (as I think was the case back in 5th).

On a personal level I am sick to death of seeing riptides so if they remain the obvious go to unit I will be sad.

New marines don't really bother me (don't play marines, probably never will) but I do think their fluff and general feel is pretty bad. Its true that Space Marines are weapons and weapons become obsolete. At the same time though it seems kind of... broken to just say "oh sorry, you all suck now". We now have the new Intercessors which will probably be joined by new assault/devastator equivalents.

I don't buy for one second that tactical marines will be better in certain situations. This never happens. You will take one or you will take the other based on probabilities and points.

 Desubot wrote:

Requizen wrote:
In AoS, Flying just lets you move over units and terrain as if they weren't there Much like Jump or Jet does in 7th, might have new rules in NewHammer.

Yeah functionally it works. and i bet flyers will get something like momentum that forces them to move a certain way like they hinted at

i just dont like the idea of my drones "flying" more like hovering ya know?

Yeah I think it's so they have a catch-all rule for everything with wings, jetpacks, jumppacks and whatever semi-flying models you have.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Requizen wrote:
In AoS, Flying just lets you move over units and terrain as if they weren't there Much like Jump or Jet does in 7th, might have new rules in NewHammer.

Yeah functionally it works. and i bet flyers will get something like momentum that forces them to move a certain way like they hinted at

i just dont like the idea of my drones "flying" more like hovering ya know?

Makes more sense than jump or jetpack stuff just moving in rocket powered bunny hops.

to be fair jump packs are kinda depicted as bunny hopping in the space marine games

Edited after seeing mod note.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Bringing it down to grenades anyone notice the frag grenade is d6 ... the battle cannon is d6 and the obv comparison of editions is one was small blast and the other large.

I wonder if the reduced range is gonna mean all guys in a unit can lob one! that'd maybe explain the reduced pistol costs.

I am thinking they can all lob it given the very short range.

Second question can they do like AOS and shoot everything they have at once.

At short range bolter+frag+krak=lots of attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.

The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.

For some game is nothing without fluff. Let's face purely from gaming aspect there are tons better games out there than 40k is or can ever be. It needs something else. Models also aren't best of the best so not that either...

Tyel wrote:

New marines don't really bother me (don't play marines, probably never will) but I do think their fluff and general feel is pretty bad. Its true that Space Marines are weapons and weapons become obsolete. At the same time though it seems kind of... broken to just say "oh sorry, you all suck now". We now have the new Intercessors which will probably be joined by new assault/devastator equivalents.

I don't buy for one second that tactical marines will be better in certain situations. This never happens. You will take one or you will take the other based on probabilities and points.

You lose three Primaris Marines out of a squad of 5.
You roll a 6 for your Morale test.

You've now lost another Primaris Marine.

Morale, like Battleshock, doesn't cause Wounds or whatever. It just removes models.

ERJAK wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As a general response to replies to my earlier post, I will say this:

Space Marines are supposed to be humanity's finest. Genetics, equipment, training etc etc

And yet, GW seems to think that an average joe with a flashlight and some MDF armour, can survive a boltgun shot from a Space Marine...

By that logic, a middle aged, overweight guy like me, should be able to go toe to toe with a bad ass from Delta Force, SAS, Spetnaz, insert your special forces of choice here...

And here we are, with a new unit and a new boltgun that basic space marines should be getting anyway. If I buy a new car, I don't expect to have to turn up with a steering wheel and spark plugs.

I'm 400 miles away from GW HQ, but I can smell the horsegak from up here in the Scottish Highlands!

This here is why focusing too much on the fluff can be detrimental to your and the people around you's mental health. I don't give one goddam about who's weapons can kill who or what fat people can run where or whatever bullgak FAAC players keep pulling out to impose OUR reality's rules on a setting where giant daemons can explode out of a guy's head because he thunk too hard.

The models are cool and the rules seem fine. If they perform well on the tabletop('oh but they'll be powercreeped to make you buy them!' GW doesn't know how to play warhammer well enough to do that on purpose.) I could give a fat gak what the background is and I'm better off for it.

I'll say this to you and anybody else who is reading this post: they are nice models. They're smooth and streamlined, and on this point, I agree with you 100%

The design is not the issue for me.

If GW had said, hey, it's 30 years of 40k, here's some celebration Space Marines for you guys, and hopefully, we might make some cash from the sentimental dollar, then fair enough.

But to me, I think they have made boltguns weaker as a deliberate choice, not a game design choice, but a choice so that they can spring these new marines on us and force people to pay more money for standard issue equipment they should be getting anyway.

That's a cynical move straight from the Tom Kirby playbook!

 Thargrim wrote:
I sure like that new plasma gun, I hope these primaris marines also get a grav gun and flamer. Just cause these roided out versions of the old weapons look so cool. I'm content with the rules i'm seeing for them so far. And the idea that these are more expensive is good. This means I might be able to actual build and assemble a proper 40k army. So its looking like less work to get a functioning army. I'll probably get the starter and then work up to 1k points cause I prefer smaller games.

I already know i'm going to get these, it's inevitable at this point. The hardest thing is going to be picking a chaper.

What plasma gun?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
But to me, I think they have made boltguns weaker as a deliberate choice, not a game design choice, but a choice so that they can spring these new marines on us and force people to pay more money for standard issue equipment they should be getting anyway.

That's a cynical move straight from the Tom Kirby playbook!

Seeing this means they put 0 AP for tons of other guns as well just to promote these...Seems bit far scretched.

tneva82 wrote:


Second question can they do like AOS and shoot everything they have at once.

At short range bolter+frag+krak=lots of attacks

You can shoot everything in AoS, but most models have just one weapon. I don't expect that to be the same universally here.

Damn, I hope the AP nothing on those Sniper Drone Pulse Rifles is not going to be the same for standard FW. They need something to prove that they're superior at shooting compared to the other races!

*sees T'au faction focus*

YAAAAAAYYYYYYYY *RUNS AROUND BEFORE DIVING INTO THE ARTICLE LIKE SCROOGE MCDUCK DIVING INTO HIS MONEY VAULT*

MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So T'au Battlesuits and our second (Rubrics were the first right? No others right?) full profile (Drones)

The Battlesuits get the ability to leave combat and fire into it. Flames are now HUGE and since Twin-Link just gives you more shots there is now no difference to it and taking a second weapon except that the Twin-Link has to hit the same unit though... Hmmmm

We didn't get the full suit profile. We got a drone.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


If GW had said, hey, it's 30 years of 40k, here's some celebration Space Marines for you guys, and hopefully, we might make some cash from the sentimental dollar, then fair enough.

But to me, I think they have made boltguns weaker as a deliberate choice, not a game design choice, but a choice so that they can spring these new marines on us and force people to pay more money for standard issue equipment they should be getting anyway.

That's a cynical move straight from the Tom Kirby playbook!

Yet there is the Tau AP5 sniper rifle also with no rend. And the Rubric bolter is commensurate with an AP3 weapon.