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 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So did I read the Tau article right and Marker lights only grant a reroll to hits now?

You did not read it right.

The article says that's what one Markerlight does. It says nothing about what multiples do nor if that's ALL they do.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

LightKing wrote:
where is the new Tau lore?

What new Tau lore?

There's a discussion of the Damocles Warzone in one of the leaks, which you should be able to find on the first page.

The Faction Focus we're discussing now is also linked on the first page, but is purely discussing game mechanics and playstyles, not fluff.

Check the Warzone Damocles on warhammer community. Also I want to put in a reminder here since this thread is moving like 10 million miles a second. Lady Atia has chimed in on her blog saying the Tau are most likely getting Auxiliaries release from the nature of her hint. Other rumor people say no xenos till next year. So likely next year will be Tau update and probably a big one. Proof is war of sigmar blog warzone damocles comments.

More tau Auxiliaries would please me greatly.

 kestral wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

LightKing wrote:
where is the new Tau lore?

What new Tau lore?

There's a discussion of the Damocles Warzone in one of the leaks, which you should be able to find on the first page.

The Faction Focus we're discussing now is also linked on the first page, but is purely discussing game mechanics and playstyles, not fluff.

Check the Warzone Damocles on warhammer community. Also I want to put in a reminder here since this thread is moving like 10 million miles a second. Lady Atia has chimed in on her blog saying the Tau are most likely getting Auxiliaries release from the nature of her hint. Other rumor people say no xenos till next year. So likely next year will be Tau update and probably a big one. Proof is war of sigmar blog warzone damocles comments.

More tau Auxiliaries would please me greatly.

I hope it's Demiurg. Though Kroot would be cool as hell too. Though more than either I want to see a completely new xenos.

 Gamgee wrote:

 kestral wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

LightKing wrote:
where is the new Tau lore?

What new Tau lore?

There's a discussion of the Damocles Warzone in one of the leaks, which you should be able to find on the first page.

The Faction Focus we're discussing now is also linked on the first page, but is purely discussing game mechanics and playstyles, not fluff.

Check the Warzone Damocles on warhammer community. Also I want to put in a reminder here since this thread is moving like 10 million miles a second. Lady Atia has chimed in on her blog saying the Tau are most likely getting Auxiliaries release from the nature of her hint. Other rumor people say no xenos till next year. So likely next year will be Tau update and probably a big one. Proof is war of sigmar blog warzone damocles comments.

More tau Auxiliaries would please me greatly.

I hope it's Demiurg. Though Kroot would be cool as hell too. Though more than either I want to see a completely new xenos.

Nicassar give us a new race and "solve" the Tau's psyker "issue" at the same time.

Would require a fluff retcon as to their physical attributes, though.

 Lysenis wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Honest to God, I cannot fathom whatsoever why GW thought Tau being bad in close combat was a problem that needed fixing. They mow through charging units. They lose a model or two in close combat, then they waltz right back out of combat and don't even have the ONE drawback that actually matters to them for doing a Fall Back. What the hell?

Seriously, GW keeps saying close combat is going to be brutal. In what way? Since the Fight article they have literally shown absolutely nothing whatsoever that lends credence to that statement. They really need to put up or shut up.

Yes, yes, becuase we have a full rule book with all the stats for every faction. You are obviously right. Command level assumptions there.

I don't want the rules for ever fething faction. They said close combat would be brutal. They have not demonstrated that whatsoever. A fethload of bespoke rules should not have to be in place for a unit to be ADEQUATE at close fething combat.

Going first on the charge with powerfists and stuff is pretty brutal, never mind bespoke rules. Stacking HtH wounds on top of shooting wounds in the new morale system is also brutal. I think in some ways GW is doing fine so far with brutal close combat.

When it comes to the Primaris marines, has it been confirmed that they will be using genetic material from the various chapters they are assigned to? I mean, will Space Wolf Primaris marines have fangs? Will Blood Angel Primaris Marines suffer from the Red thirst? Will Salamander Primaris Marines have Black Skin?

Or is it simply that Primaris marines are all the same, even if they are assigned to a specific chapter? For instance, would a Blood Angel Primaris Marine just be a cookie-cutter Primaris that has painted his armor red after being randomly assigned to work for the Blood Angels?

If it is the latter scenario, I wonder if they would ever be considered "true" marines. Likely they'd never know the inner secrets of the Dark Angels for example.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Honest to God, I cannot fathom whatsoever why GW thought Tau being bad in close combat was a problem that needed fixing. They mow through charging units. They lose a model or two in close combat, then they waltz right back out of combat and don't even have the ONE drawback that actually matters to them for doing a Fall Back. What the hell?

Seriously, GW keeps saying close combat is going to be brutal. In what way? Since the Fight article they have literally shown absolutely nothing whatsoever that lends credence to that statement. They really need to put up or shut up.

Yes, yes, becuase we have a full rule book with all the stats for every faction. You are obviously right. Command level assumptions there.

I don't want the rules for ever fething faction. They said close combat would be brutal. They have not demonstrated that whatsoever. A fethload of bespoke rules should not have to be in place for a unit to be ADEQUATE at close fething combat.

Yes, yes, because Demonette's were not scary we have seen Bloodthirsters, Death Company, Black Templar, and all the other close combat heavy forces with enough information that we can actually suss out what is going on. Yup yup, you are once again making command level assumptions.

A unit has to get into CC. What are you looking for? 2+ save with 2+ invulnerable with 10 wounds? Maybe with a 26" movement and a 20" flamer? Maybe costing 50 points with a 10 model cap and take up a troop slot? Would that be good enough for your desire of a CC unit?

Bah, you are giving up the dig before gold has been gotten too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cuda1179 wrote:
When it comes to the Primaris marines, has it been confirmed that they will be using genetic material from the various chapters they are assigned to? I mean, will Space Wolf Primaris marines have fangs? Will Blood Angel Primaris Marines suffer from the Red thirst? Will Salamander Primaris Marines have Black Skin?

Or is it simply that Primaris marines are all the same, even if they are assigned to a specific chapter? For instance, would a Blood Angel Primaris Marine just be a cookie-cutter Primaris that has painted his armor red after being randomly assigned to work for the Blood Angels?

If it is the latter scenario, I wonder if they would ever be considered "true" marines. Likely they'd never know the inner secrets of the Dark Angels for example.

For some reason I keep thinking back to the Gene-seed sent to be tested by the Chapters. That could of been used and cultivated to make these Marines. It could of been cleansed or filtering out of the abnormalities thing at developed while the Gulilegion's could be mixtures of these.

Okay, just have to interrupt from all the arguments about what should get a rend and what shouldn't:

Is the game REALLY that much more fun when you don't get armor saves?

This whole new wave of everyone gets a save (at varying appropriate degrees) is more fluffy and better overall for everyone playing.

 Gamgee wrote:

 kestral wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

LightKing wrote:
where is the new Tau lore?

What new Tau lore?

There's a discussion of the Damocles Warzone in one of the leaks, which you should be able to find on the first page.

The Faction Focus we're discussing now is also linked on the first page, but is purely discussing game mechanics and playstyles, not fluff.

Check the Warzone Damocles on warhammer community. Also I want to put in a reminder here since this thread is moving like 10 million miles a second. Lady Atia has chimed in on her blog saying the Tau are most likely getting Auxiliaries release from the nature of her hint. Other rumor people say no xenos till next year. So likely next year will be Tau update and probably a big one. Proof is war of sigmar blog warzone damocles comments.

More tau Auxiliaries would please me greatly.

I hope it's Demiurg. Though Kroot would be cool as hell too. Though more than either I want to see a completely new xenos.

I really do like the Kroot, and their current basic kit could use a revamp akin to what the fire warriors and SM tactical squad got. More weapon options, poses and crisper detailing. As far as xenos go I think there are numerous kits that are showing their age, eldar guardians, and termagants, etc. Demiurg would also be cool...but in a way i'd rather see something less humanoid or bipedal if we get new aliens.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
Going first on the charge with powerfists and stuff is pretty brutal, never mind bespoke rules. Stacking HtH wounds on top of shooting wounds in the new morale system is also brutal. I think in some ways GW is doing fine so far with brutal close combat.

They went one step forward and two steps back. Everyone has Hit and Run for free now. The only drawback is you can't really do anything afterward. Tau have that drawback removed. What's next, is GW going to decide they are all pariahs and immune to psychic phase too? And hitting first requires you to even get those power Fists there. That relies on a random mechanic shooting is not subject to. It requires wading through overwatch. And the power Fists that hit at initiative? GW has already said they will be saddled with drawbacks. Probably getting a penalty to hit or flat out only hitting on a six.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Is the game REALLY that much more fun when you don't get armor saves?

Yes, yes it is.

Fething Necrons show that the game is clearly NOT fun when everybody gets saves and extra saves yet again.

 cuda1179 wrote:
When it comes to the Primaris marines, has it been confirmed that they will be using genetic material from the various chapters they are assigned to? I mean, will Space Wolf Primaris marines have fangs? Will Blood Angel Primaris Marines suffer from the Red thirst? Will Salamander Primaris Marines have Black Skin?

Or is it simply that Primaris marines are all the same, even if they are assigned to a specific chapter? For instance, would a Blood Angel Primaris Marine just be a cookie-cutter Primaris that has painted his armor red after being randomly assigned to work for the Blood Angels?

If it is the latter scenario, I wonder if they would ever be considered "true" marines. Likely they'd never know the inner secrets of the Dark Angels for example.

From the gw community article,
"Though they are a step removed from their brothers, the Primaris Space Marines still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs, and some dissenting voices worry how this new type of warrior will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of some of the more unusual Chapters…"

GW is attempting to make the primaris marines as easily accessible as possible to all chapters, in game and in the background. Seems to be a good marketing move.

My official opinion now? NuMarines are boooooring.

It really seems like an excuse to make "truescale" marine models, and that's about it. They appear to be pretty 'meh' in terms of rules. An extra wound and a slightly better ranged, -1 modifier gun is not that exciting, especially if the squad can't get heavy weapons. I'm still curious about the fiction behind them, and just how different from a normal Astartes they actually are. But so far, this feels more like a fan-service release than anything else.


The more interesting bit to me is the Frag Grenade stat line. "Grenade D6". Holy ****!! Is a Frag Grenade really give a D6 'shots'? That sounds intense.

Mchaagen wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
When it comes to the Primaris marines, has it been confirmed that they will be using genetic material from the various chapters they are assigned to? I mean, will Space Wolf Primaris marines have fangs? Will Blood Angel Primaris Marines suffer from the Red thirst? Will Salamander Primaris Marines have Black Skin?

Or is it simply that Primaris marines are all the same, even if they are assigned to a specific chapter? For instance, would a Blood Angel Primaris Marine just be a cookie-cutter Primaris that has painted his armor red after being randomly assigned to work for the Blood Angels?

If it is the latter scenario, I wonder if they would ever be considered "true" marines. Likely they'd never know the inner secrets of the Dark Angels for example.

From the gw community article,
"Though they are a step removed from their brothers, the Primaris Space Marines still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs, and some dissenting voices worry how this new type of warrior will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of some of the more unusual Chapters…"

GW is attempting to make the primaris marines as easily accessible as possible to all chapters, in game and in the background. Seems to be a good marketing move.

Thanks for a quote. I'm rathing intrigued by how they will write the rules for them. Will they have a line of rules that state "They have (Insert chapter) traits", where you just use the special rules from any chapter they happen to be in? If that's the case, I wonder what special abilities they will have when they are taken as an army on their own.

Deathwatch Primaris or Grey knight Primaris could be fun. You've got to know that Guiliman sent the Grey Knights a ton of Primaris after all the help they gave him getting to Terra.

 Rippy wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Strange to me that the Gullimarines would use the other primarchs geneseed still.

Obviously this was just to appease everyone and allow them to plug into existing forces, but from a fluff point of view in not buying it

Why wouldn't they be using all the different Geneseed? That makes more sense from a fluff perspective, do you think that certain chapters would accept marines of a different Primarch's stock? They would see themselves as dying out, rather than getting stronger.

But they are dying out. The nu Marines are basically dirt in the face for reserve companies and the scouts.

I just find it odd that a Guilliman sponsored project 10, 000 years in the making would even consider using his inferior brothers geneseed without even knowing what has happened to it since he woke up from his nap... We already know most other Loyalist geneseed is rarely used for obvious reasons. Had he known I'm sure certain chapters would not be allowed to continue.

 cuda1179 wrote:


..."They have (Insert chapter) traits", where you just use the special rules from any chapter they happen to be in? If that's the case, I wonder what special abilities they will have when they are taken as an army on their own.

Deathwatch Primaris or Grey knight Primaris could be fun. You've got to know that Guiliman sent the Grey Knights a ton of Primaris after all the help they gave him getting to Terra.

Chapter rules have not been revealed yet, but primaris marines have the <Chapter> keyword in their entry.

I really dont like what I read on that Tau page. The whole reason close combat shut them down was because it locks down their shooting but now you eat a round or two of shooting, then a round of Tau overwatch, then you hit them, then an entire new round of shooting and overwatch for battlesuits? Also it looks like for dirt cheap you can put ablative wounds you have to chew through just to hurt the stuff that does all the leg work. Except those ablative wounds also do a pretty good job of threatening marines 48 inches away. I know I havent seen what everyone else does but with no emphasis on hand to hand combat, unless these hand to hand combat combat units are rediculously cheap and destructive when they get there.

Mchaagen wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
When it comes to the Primaris marines, has it been confirmed that they will be using genetic material from the various chapters they are assigned to? I mean, will Space Wolf Primaris marines have fangs? Will Blood Angel Primaris Marines suffer from the Red thirst? Will Salamander Primaris Marines have Black Skin?

Or is it simply that Primaris marines are all the same, even if they are assigned to a specific chapter? For instance, would a Blood Angel Primaris Marine just be a cookie-cutter Primaris that has painted his armor red after being randomly assigned to work for the Blood Angels?

If it is the latter scenario, I wonder if they would ever be considered "true" marines. Likely they'd never know the inner secrets of the Dark Angels for example.

From the gw community article,
"Though they are a step removed from their brothers, the Primaris Space Marines still bear the gene-seed of their Primarchs, and some dissenting voices worry how this new type of warrior will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of some of the more unusual Chapters…"

GW is attempting to make the primaris marines as easily accessible as possible to all chapters, in game and in the background. Seems to be a good marketing move.

An interesting bit of fluff from one of the answers on Facebook stated that Cawl and co have been using the 5% of gene stock that every chapter is required to send to Mars for purity testing to create the new marines.
It is a neat way of explaining why every chapter could suddenly have access to these guys. It also creates interesting story possibilities as they likely did not have permission from the chapters to mess around with their geneseed.
It is another throw back to the heresy story where you have uneasy relations between the terra/Mars bred marines and those taken from the various homeworlds.
There is a lot of complaining about how this is nonsense from a fluff perspective, but genetic experimentation, secret projects unfolding over millennia, and internal schisms within the imperium are very much a part of the 40k story Dna.
I am very interested to see where the story goes.

What if the improvements to the Primaris Marines are NOT just to the geneseed, but the host as well. The better the match for the geneseed the better the marine it makes. What if they just grew a better host (Clone Wars style) that was especially compatible with the purified geneseed? If that's the case, they would;t really be outsiders, just better marines. Really the only thing they'd be missing would be the cultural connection from chapters that normally only recruit from a specif world/region. To other chapters like the Black Templars it wouldn't make a lick of difference as they recruit from whereever they please at the moment.,

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I don't want the rules for ever fething faction. They said close combat would be brutal. They have not demonstrated that whatsoever. A fethload of bespoke rules should not have to be in place for a unit to be ADEQUATE at close fething combat.

The units that are good at close combat are going to be good at it in the same way that a stormsurge is good at shooting because of the rules it has.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I don't want the rules for ever fething faction. They said close combat would be brutal. They have not demonstrated that whatsoever. A fethload of bespoke rules should not have to be in place for a unit to be ADEQUATE at close fething combat.

The units that are good at close combat are going to be good at it in the same way that a stormsurge is good at shooting because of the rules it has.

Except when a shooting army has special rules to ignore the most important part of close combat, the part that stops them from shooting because they are tied up in combat, and still have all their shooting shenanigans and more!

For all we know the average Tau Leadership could be 5. If thats the case they could be taking extra casualties from moral left and right. It could balance things.

 Insectum7 wrote:

The more interesting bit to me is the Frag Grenade stat line. "Grenade D6". Holy ****!! Is a Frag Grenade really give a D6 'shots'? That sounds intense.

I think the truly interesting part will be how many models in a unit can use grenades in each phase. It will be somewhat lackluster if the current rule of one per unit is ported over. Though having all the models in the unit able to use grenades in a phase seems broken. A balance somewhere in between would be ideal.

Except all your wounds are differred to dirt cheap drones

+++Chargers strike first
++ Person who's turn it is choose the first fight after charges
+ Pistols can shoot into combat
+ Some units can always strike first


+/- Grenades seem pretty kickass
+/- We don't know about charging from vehicles
+/- We don't know how transports work
+/- Units don't run, but heavy losses will cripple them
+/- We don't know about difficult terrain


- Units can retreat
-- Overwatch is in at only -1
-- Some units can retreat and shoot


What am I missing? Seems relatively even in volume anyway



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cuda1179 wrote:
For all we know the average Tau Leadership could be 5. If thats the case they could be taking extra casualties from moral left and right. It could balance things.

Well, drone has 6. Tau were the same as the drones so probably 6 army wide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

macluvin wrote:
Except all your wounds are differred to dirt cheap drones

Those sniper drones are not cheap. 3 1W models for half the cost of 5 numarines.

Primaris are just 8E Space Marines. Keeping the old guys was a compromise and I'm personally confident that old Marines are going to slowly fade from store space in maybe a year or slightly more.

People are not going to buy old marines over new marines, even people playing old marine armies (except the stubborn few) will buy them and declare "counts as" if they want to continue old fluff.

Its pretty telling when they are only slightly different state wise, the rumors of them getting basically all the same basic unit types and that they can be in chapters or nee ones with the same flaws concepts just like old marines.

Best way to say it is that they are rebooting space marines.

 Insectum7 wrote:
My official opinion now? NuMarines are boooooring.

It really seems like an excuse to make "truescale" marine models, and that's about it. They appear to be pretty 'meh' in terms of rules. An extra wound and a slightly better ranged, -1 modifier gun is not that exciting, especially if the squad can't get heavy weapons. I'm still curious about the fiction behind them, and just how different from a normal Astartes they actually are. But so far, this feels more like a fan-service release than anything else.


The more interesting bit to me is the Frag Grenade stat line. "Grenade D6". Holy ****!! Is a Frag Grenade really give a D6 'shots'? That sounds intense.

I was thinking while away from my internet connection and at work, that perhaps we only got a partial datasheet for the Primaris Marines. Especially with the model that shows the plasma gun.

I mean GW as been known to hold stuff back (Rubric's banner upgrade rules for example) so they could have released incomplete information to give us a taste of the new Marine unit but not show off everything.

They've said the new guys get different wargear, so I'm guessing any weapon they have that is similar to a standard weapon will likely have different stats (longer range, more shots, ect) but will cost a lot more. That plasma gun for instance could also be another 30" weapon with Rapid Fire 1. Additionally we know they're getting some stuff that normal marines don't carry. Perhaps this will be a chance to bring back rad and volkite weapons to the main game from the Heresy.

That said, for the forseeable future, there will be some overlap in utility but a bumch of differences too. I can't imagine only an extra wound being snuck into their profile being the only difference. Maybe they'll get locked into MSU squads, but seeing as we don't see the Sergent's wargear (bolt pistol and power sword looks like from one of the group shots) that means we could be missing other key rules and options.

I do sncerely hope there are differences between them and normal marines though. Like by losing Combat Squads as an option, or by having a builting horde option (5-20 models in a unit), or perhaps the basic unit can swap bolters for combat blades or chainswords...

There is a lot of room forthe new guys to get interesting and I feel they're hiding it because it spoils too much of the surprise factor there.

As for the grenade, looks like blasts are going to a multiple shot method. Who knows, maybe d6 is our new small blast, or thee will be no difference in shots between the two and it'll all be in the wounds.

Although I see that this is probably the best opportunity they had to work them in as nu-marines, I must say that as someone who wanted truescale I would have preferred them to just replace the current marines. A massive task, I know, but that's pretty much what this amount to anyway, and in that sense I'm happy with this.

Even working it into the story to make this as gentle a transition as possible, I am still surprised they dared to do this. I've always said that the Space Marines we're using on the tabletop are too small and too weak to function the way they should. They should be killing machines, not just "tough", which is what I'd call them as they are. I can tell you that if I played Space Marines I would immediately shelf what I have and wait to start fresh with these sick new marines.

Daedalus81 wrote:
+++Chargers strike first
++ Person who's turn it is choose the first fight after charges
+ Pistols can shoot into combat
+ Some units can always strike first


+/- Grenades seem pretty kickass
+/- We don't know about charging from vehicles
+/- We don't know how transports work
+/- Units don't run, but heavy losses will cripple them
+/- We don't know about difficult terrain


- Units can retreat
-- Overwatch is in at only -1
-- Some units can retreat and shoot


What am I missing? Seems relatively even in volume anyway



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cuda1179 wrote:
For all we know the average Tau Leadership could be 5. If thats the case they could be taking extra casualties from moral left and right. It could balance things.

Well, drone has 6. Tau were the same as the drones so probably 6 army wide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

macluvin wrote:
Except all your wounds are differred to dirt cheap drones

Those sniper drones are not cheap. 3 1W models for half the cost of 5 numarines.

Overwatch is a flat 6 to hit, not a -1 unless that's a T'au thing I missed.