40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Leth wrote:
So June is a three paycheck month.....

Well played GW.....well played

My 6 month bonus comes at just the right time :p

**Nightlord1987**

So looking forward to the Transport article tomorrow. If as many units as seats rumor is confirmed, my Orkz and CSM have a poor man's Combat Squad option now!

**streetsamurai**

Spoletta wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
You can still have a guy with a storm shield while the rest of the unit doesn't.

To be honest, I think that they said the days of characters doing so were over, but having the sergent being able to do so is not much better.

Except that said shield would block absolutely nothing. You first save then allocate wounds, that shield on a single model is useless.

He, if you save before allocating wounds, the SS is even stronger since you will d make all your save with it, even if the guy holding it would have been dead after the first shot

**MaxT**

streetsamurai wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
You can still have a guy with a storm shield while the rest of the unit doesn't.

To be honest, I think that they said the days of characters doing so were over, but having the sergent being able to do so is not much better.

Except that said shield would block absolutely nothing. You first save then allocate wounds, that shield on a single model is useless.

He, if you save before allocating wounds, the SS is even stronger since you will d make all your save with it, even if he would have been dead after the first shot

The new rules pretty much preclude having one off different saves within a unit. Expect that SS will do something different now.

**kestral**

Good call. It may negate one wound a turn or something (actually, that would horrifying), or more likely ALL models will have to be equipped with them. They could say something like "Unit may be equipped with enough storm shields to grant a 4+ invulnerable save. Which models are carrying the storm shields is irrelevant".

**Perfect Organism**

MaxT wrote:
The new rules pretty much preclude having one off different saves within a unit. Expect that SS will do something different now.

Do we know enough about the wound allocation rules to say if that's true or not? Previous editions had wounds allocated by the defender but still managed mixed saves, didn't they?

I'm also struggling to see what assault and storm shields could do which doesn't require some weirdness. Allow a number of improved saves equal to the number of shields in a unit? Is that per turn, per phase or per attack? How do you keep track of how many you have used? What happens if you lose models with shields part-way through? If it's per attack, what counts as a different attack with the new rules for splitting a unit's shots?

The only really simple solution I can think of is to have shields add wounds to a model, which works well enough but feels really strange to me.

Another weird solution would be to split off models which have better saves into their own units. This might seem weird, but it is what they seem to have done with the drone controller from the tau sniper drones.

**Galas**

streetsamurai wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
You can still have a guy with a storm shield while the rest of the unit doesn't.

To be honest, I think that they said the days of characters doing so were over, but having the sergent being able to do so is not much better.

Except that said shield would block absolutely nothing. You first save then allocate wounds, that shield on a single model is useless.

He, if you save before allocating wounds, the SS is even stronger since you will d make all your save with it, even if the guy holding it would have been dead after the first shot

In Age of Sigmar you have something similar with the Ard boyz (Black orcs), because they can be equiped mixed with two hand weapons, shields, and two-handed weapons. So normally, people put the Black Orcs with the offensive weapons on frot to reach more enemies, and the ones with the shields in the back, and when they have to roll wounds, obviously you put the wounds in the orks with shields first to roll better saves with them.
Is a little gamey, but it compensates for the speed in all the other cases of rolling for damage. You have to roll the saves 1 by 1 because when the last Black Orc with shield die, you loose that benefit.
As you have to put all the wounds into the same model until he dies, if you have for example 3 orks with shield, you can roll all the damage with the better save up to 6 fails. At that point the orks with shield die and you can roll all the saves at the same time because it has no difference.

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-orruk-ardboyz-en.pdf
The Warscroll in question.

So technically, with very good luck, there will still be situations of a guy with a tiny shields stopping all the damage to his unit. More probably, he will just die the first and after him the unit will take damage, even if he is as a miniature in the back of the unit.

**RoperPG**

Tzaangor are a good example in AoS. Mix of armaments.

Attack unit, it has a universal save of 5+.
When allocating wounds, if you allocate to a model with a shield, you get a 6+ wound avoidance roll.
Pass it, all good. Fail it, model with shield dies.

Storm shields will do something similar in all likelihood.

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

I am glad I own a decent pile of fortifications now!

Also, since fortifications are T10 I wonder if the landraider will have the same (since they share armor values)

**mrhappyface**

Why did you edit that Lythrandire? I too want the fundraiser to be T10!

**Powerfisting**

you know, when the articles started dropping, I was a little curious about how they were gonna stretch them out to the rumored release date. Then, they go and do an article for large models, vehicles and then transports, and I was complaining about wanting them to push the vehicle and transport articles together. I see what's going on now.

Now, the official confirmations and rumors are getting to be confusing for me. Have we not had rumors so far that basically said disembarking and assaulting in the same turn is a thing? The Tyranids article confirmed assaulting out of reserves/deepstrike, so it would be super inconsistent if that was allowed and assaulting out of transports wasn't.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I am glad I own a decent pile of fortifications now!

Also, since fortifications are T10 I wonder if the landraider will have the same (since they share armor values)

They might have similar armor values but I don't expect the Land Raider to be as tough as it probably has more weak points than a Fortress.

**Kirasu**

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I am glad I own a decent pile of fortifications now!

Also, since fortifications are T10 I wonder if the landraider will have the same (since they share armor values)

They aren't keeping the toughness of vehicles in line with all vehicles of same previous armor value from what we've seen.

**Daedalus81**

Kirasu wrote:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I am glad I own a decent pile of fortifications now!

Also, since fortifications are T10 I wonder if the landraider will have the same (since they share armor values)

They aren't keeping the toughness of vehicles in line with all vehicles of same previous armor value from what we've seen.

Toughness has been consistently AV minus 5. There are other rules needed to cover the remaining durability for some. I expect T9 on the LR. Not sure if it will be 2+ or 3+ though...depends on the wounds.

**Ratius**

Interesting to see what the Monolith gets, being similar to the LR but with some modified living metal rule?

**Spoletta**

T9 on LR and Monolith would force the use of S10 weaponry (Tfex, railsides and similar stuff) instead of relying on melta every time. I like it.

**Ratius**

Or just multiple Lasguns: King of Weapons*.

**RoperPG**

Powerfisting wrote:
you know, when the articles started dropping, I was a little curious about how they were gonna stretch them out to the rumored release date. Then, they go and do an article for large models, vehicles and then transports, and I was complaining about wanting them to push the vehicle and transport articles together. I see what's going on now.

Now, the official confirmations and rumors are getting to be confusing for me. Have we not had rumors so far that basically said disembarking and assaulting in the same turn is a thing? The Tyranids article confirmed assaulting out of reserves/deepstrike, so it would be super inconsistent if that was allowed and assaulting out of transports wasn't.

On current understanding, you can assault out of a transport.
Disembark in the movement phase, then assault later.
That would suggest you can't assault from a vehicle after it charges because if the vehicle charges you're too late to disembark.

But entirely possible it's different.

**kellymatthew37**

I am thinking that much like the las gun. The simple gaunt with a devourer will be fairly strong.

**Spoletta**

kellymatthew37 wrote:
I am thinking that much like the las gun. The simple gaunt with a devourer will be fairly strong.

In particular if units can shoot while engaged (we only know that a model within 1" on an enemy can't shoot, nothing has been said on units) , the first row fights and the other 30 shoot!

**zedmeister**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Looks like it's narrative Stronghold Assault mission this time for the article.

Interesting. Do I dare hope for siege warfare rules that actually work? Fire up the Mastodon!

**Rippy**

You can tell it's not a very interesting article; had less than a page to read through now I am awake

**ERJAK**

Spoletta wrote:
kellymatthew37 wrote:
I am thinking that much like the las gun. The simple gaunt with a devourer will be fairly strong.

In particular if units can shoot while engaged (we only know that a model within 1" on an enemy can't shoot, nothing has been said on units) , the first row fights and the other 30 shoot!

Yeah it doesn't specify in the shooting article but the fight phase article is pretty clear about it being units not models.

**Raikoh**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
So looking forward to the Transport article tomorrow. If as many units as seats rumor is confirmed, my Orkz and CSM have a poor man's Combat Squad option now!

I'm pretty sure its not a rumor. Didn't he specifically say you could go 5+5 in a 10 capacity vehicle in the live stream?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Yup.

**MajorWesJanson**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
I'm sure there will be a 1-LoW or 2-LoW detachment, don't worry.

Yea I bet it would be a 1-2 with 0 CP.

Maybe we'll see something like below. That comes to 13 instead of 12, but the extra elite could easily be cut.

Patrol
Battalion
Brigade

Super Heavy
Super Heavy (smaller and less CP)

Elite 1
Elite 2

Fast Attack 1
Fast Attack 2

Heavy Support 1
Heavy Support 2

Flyer 1
Flyer 2

Agreed. Probably a detachment of 1-2 with +0 cp, and 3-5 with +3. As for the 14th detachment, so far nothing so far has had fortification slots, so likely a 1-4 fortifications with +0.

**Eyjio**

Spoletta wrote:
T9 on LR and Monolith would force the use of S10 weaponry (Tfex, railsides and similar stuff) instead of relying on melta every time. I like it.

The monolith would sort of get it's 3rd edition rules living metal back then! Maybe it can get the S9 back on its particle whip too, though that seems pretty unlikely, as well as rerolling we'll be back and acting as a teleporter. Looking back, it's pretty amazing how much worse it's gotten over the years. Also. fun fact: living metal has been completely different in every iteration of the rules. It's gone from lance/melta immunity, to rolling to ignore shaken/stunned, to completely ignoring shaken and also regenerating heavy vehicles hull points. On the grounds that crew shaken likely no longer exists, it seems pretty likely it'll be totally different again.

I'm pretty worried about Necrons to be honest; the track record of balancing them has made them swing wildly between useless and broken, with some units (Szeras, Deceiver (sharded or not), Tesseract Vaults, Obelisks, Lychguard, Doomsday Arks) which have never been good. Wraiths went from a (kinda bad, due to phase out) glass cannon unit, to an insanely durable unit, to an even more insanely durable unit; it's a testament to how broken 7e is that Wraiths in their formation, with T5 W2 3++ and a 4+ reanimation roll, are actually STILL not good enough to compete with Eldar, GSC, Space Marine Company, etc. Destroyers went from take as many as possible, to bad, to great. Meanwhile, the Tesseract Vault went from being totally outshone by how broken the Transcendent C'tan was, to being utterly crippled by the ridiculous way that Powers of the C'tan works (being 1.5x the cost of a Knight didn't help either). Of course, it seems as though we're going to be playing a nearly totally different game, what with the near inevitability of close combat now, so who knows how it'll all shake out. Maybe C'tan will actually get to be the threat they've always wanted to be, instead of a joke unit. Perhaps Lychguard can even pretend they're not totally outshone by assault marines too.

**Lockark**

Back in 5th you would allocate wounds then roll to save. Models in the same war gear grouping would be grouped. Every model had to have at least one wound allocated before a model could have a second wound allocated.

The problem with this system was codexs with multi wound models were you could make every guy a unquie wound pool with all the war gear options letting you spread out the wounds.

**ClockworkZion**

Latest Round up from Facebook. Next one on Monday:

Stronghold Assault
Q1: I feel like it's been Christmas eve for the last month you're killing me here guys...
A1: The Emperor will be bringing you lots of lovely presents very soon... but only if you've been good.
Q2: what if we have been more than good..... greater good, if you will?
A2: If you have have been all about the Greater Good, the Emperor has a special gift just for you. He's having it hand-delivered by three companies of Flesh Tearers real soon!

Q: Nice! Now we just need more Xeno fortifications and terrain. As an Imperial player I would like a chance at ruining Xenos worlds!
A: As a fellow Imperial player... I would hope that all those buildings have been flattened already!

But great shout - we will pass this one on to the guys in the scenery team.

Q1: I would like to know how these models are made. Out of curiosity.
A1: Most of our models these days are sculpted digitally and the molds produced on site here at Games Workshop. It's a fascinating process!
Q2: Will we ever get a behind the scenes doco/movie of the design through to production?
A2: While the methods of production of our models is a closely guarded secret, watched over by a shadowy cabal of Plastimancers, a documentary on how your models are made is a great, great idea. We'll put it to our video team and see what can be done.

Q: Can we have an article discussing flyers, maybe a couple different ones, like the Storm Raven, Tyranid Hive Tyrant, and Eldar hemlock wraith fighter? I think flyers is the one thing that hasnt really been touched on at all. But over all very happy with whats been coming out
A: Hey Heath - that's a great shout. We'll have a Flyer article zooming it;s way to you real soon.

Q: Will we still be able to use Fortifications in a Detachment that isn't a Stronghold Assault missions? I always wanted to get an Aquila Strongpoint, but 7th ed Rules made it almost useless (a single penetrating hit and the gun is out of comission for example) and so far the rules seem to make it an actual choice for my Army now.
A: If you mean "is there a way of using fortifications in a matched play game?" then the answer is yes... but we will reveal more on that in the future.

Q: Really wana see how deathwatch kill teams are gonna work, without formations unless unit entries are changed the army really won't feel like it should.
A: Hey Luke - we will get round to every faction eventually. Watch out for the Deathwatch Faction Focus article, coming this way quicker than a factory-fresh Corvus Blackstar.

Q: In an unrelated topic: Congrats on achieving a 150k subscriber milestone on youtube !
A: Why, thank you!

Q: Gonna be fun watching my Trygons take apart buildings, and my Carnifexes destroy that Fortress
A: Oh, yes you are!

Q: Good to know but, a bit of a damp squib for a saturday afternoon GW. Guessing no faction focus today either.
A: We try to do one every other day, so we'll have one for you tomorrow.

Q: Is that gonna be in a separate book or will it come as part of the core rule book?
A: All will be revealed very soon!

Q: Will the various terrain pieces made by GW for 40k continue to have specific rules?
A: Yes they will indeed. Every terrain piece will have rules you can choose to use if you want to.

Q: Unrelated topic - do we know yet if cc damage rolls from model to model, or is like shooting - extra damage lost?
A: All we have revealed so far about the Fight Phase is right here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/02/new-warhammer-40000-fight-phase-may2gw-homepage-post-4/

Q: Are buildings going to have degenerative stats as well? losing weapons as you damage them?
A: Hey Dennis - great question, sir! We haven't seen a datasheet for a building yet, so we cannot say. We'll see about releasing more on buildings in the near future. Sounds like a cool idea, mind.

Q: Any chance you guys will be releasing more terrain pieces for other factions? We've seen mostly Imperial stuff, but Necron or Ork buildings would be awesome!
Also, Finecast - is this going away, as it should (forgive me, but the quality is seriously bad)?
Also2.0, Start Collecting - Grey Knights pretty please!
A: Hey Tomek - well, non- Imperial scenery is something the guys are looking into.We have already had the Deathworld Forest kit, which saw some Eldar elements in there; who know what the future brings?

Q: I'm just happy a Howling Griffins pic was used in the article
A: That's one of my favourite pieces of Warhammer 40,000 art; the scale it gives is incredible - Nick

Q: Hey GW, show us the Assault Primaris Marines! Also, question- will there be Primaris HQ units? Captains, Techmarines, Chaplains etc?
A: Hey Matt - well, in the Q&A ion Warhammer TV the other night (linked below), Pete Foley said there will be more Primaris Space Marines incoming, and that all of them are very specialised in the role they do. What those look like and who they are... well, only time will tell!
https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/379597632435221/?hc_location=ufi

Q: Are we going to get a Zone Mortalis ruleset too? Please?
A: If we see those, they will be coming from Forge World, who make that kit. There is every chance we will; watch this space for all the latest news as we get it.

Q: Will you make bigger buildings for bigger marines?
A: Primaris Space Marines don't need cover... they walk into battle wearing it.

Q: Will you make how to play video tutorials with newhammer?
A: That sounds like a very sensible idea!

Q: We gunna hear about the Necron Dynasties anytime soon?
A: Of course! There is a Faction Focus article planned for every race, Necrons included. Keep watching this space.

Q: PLeASe B0Ss
A: Ha! It's on the way! We wold have thought the Nercontyr would be good at waiting patiently by now... as that's all you've been doing for some 25,000 years.

Chainswords are awesome

Q: I've modded many of my assault marines to dual wield chainswords (with the pistol holstered on their hip). It was a CC Counts As visual drama thing. So, I'm happy to see the chainsword come into its own.
A: Only thing better than a petrol-driven chain-belt Xenos killing-bat? Two of them.

Q: NOW YOU POST IT???!?!?! Today i was assembling my new chaos army and i was wondering "hmmm...maybe some chainswords for them instead of bolters? Nah bolters will do"

Now i have to cut them and assemble them again....
A: Our apologies!

Q1: Will this rule be identical for chainaxes, too?
A1: We'll have to wait and see!
Q2: is a chainaxe the same as a chainsword?
A2: But considerably more axe-y in it's design.

**lord_blackfang**

I'm sorry. I can't keep up. Do we know if TLOS is in?