40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**ClockworkZion**

Kriswall wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Bottle wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Bottle wrote:I really hope the unit rules are free. It caters for people like me who prefer to build small and varied forces rather than just making tournament armies. I have loads of random models. I would have to buy 4 out of the 5 indexes to have rules for them all. I am not interested in playing Matched play to begin with just open play, and for that I need free unit rules or it loses lots of appeal (and I'll likely stick with AoS instead).

Who says you need to buy everything at once? Why not just spend a portion of this months wages for the rules and your favourite rules, then next month spend a measely amount for your next two factions that you want, then in month 3 get the last 2 books (if you have 4/5 why not have the set?). All the rules, in 3 months, with minimal impact on other spendings. Its cheaper than you having to buy 4+ codexes and new rules every edition and being Out of Date for a whole edition.

Firstly, I don't want to spend £75 on rules when I could spend that on more miniatures. Secondly it's for all the new models. If they don't have free unit rules the newer armies will have rules only available behind paywalls too.

For Age of Sigmar I collect all 4 grand alliances, but a mixture in each. When a new release comes out I might pick up a box or two. I like playing smaller games and skirmish games. And I can do it all just fine with AoS. I was hoping to play 40k the same way but if the rules are all behind paywalls it doesn't cater for Open Players like me because I can't just buy a box of whatever and put it on the table like I can with AoS.

Sorry to be rude about it but that's honestly your own problem. You need new rules every edition, that's never not been the case. Just think of this as a downpayment. Where in previous editions you might spend 400+ on models that become obselete in 6 months, you now have the rules already (so no further Pay To Pay cost until EVERYBODY has to do so, or maybe free PDF update or something) and can plan to buy only what will be useful and you like. Furthermore, no one wants to spend £75 on rules instead of models but that's been part of the game for years now, its just how it works. Its not extra cost, its expected cost. And new units and armies have always had to do this as well. Literally nothing has changed except they are going to give you the core rules (how the different phases and unit types work) as a PDF for free.

For the second paragraph, I can't follow you. You want the rules for free is what you're saying. That's fair. I want free stuff too, but you gotta pay for stuff bro. The models are one product and the game is another. You aren't getting 2 at once, it just doesn't work that way.

It works that way for more or less every other commercially successful table top game. Rules normally come with the products. GW is an anomaly in that they sell game pieces and the rules to use them separately.

And I agree with his second paragraph. It's the same for me. 7th Edition really encouraged multi-faction armies. GW pushed the allies mechanic and made it super easy to build an army out of a little of this and a little of that. "Forge the Narrative" and take what you want. I built a cross-faction army with a core of Tau Empire, some Necrons I converted to all have Tau antennas sticking out of their heads and some IG/Skitarii to represent Tau Auxillaries. I also have a small force of Iron Warriors. In total, it's about 3000 points worth of painted models. If I want to play with them, I'll need to buy more or less all of the books on day 1. I don't have enough of any one army to play a 'full sized game', so buying the rules for the faction I like best isn't an option.

Yes, we all know we have to spend money to buy new rules from time to time, but it sucks to find out you have to buy ALL of the rules on day 1 to field the kind of army GW has been pushing for several years (multi faction). With AoS, you can literally buy any box off the wall and plunk it down on the table. With 40k 8th, you'll need to be more picky and make sure your particular flavor of Xenos is in the Xenos book you bought. Tau/Orks? One book. Tau/Necrons? Two books. Tau/Necrons/an Inquisitor? Three books.

It would be AWESOME if they could announce pricing so that people would have more than a couple of weeks to prep. I have a good job, so the cost isn't important, but I have friends who won't easily absorb a potentially $100-200 hit just to get the rules to play their existing armies. How much are the Index books going to cost? How much is the hardback rule book by itself? Rumors are all well and good, but I want actual GW USD retail pricing. Rumored GBP pricing isn't useful.

Multi-faction has changed. We know to put multiple factions inside of a single FOC they need to share keywords. We have no word on how multiple detachments work, or if you can mix keywords between detachments (like throwing Guard into a GSC list despite the lack of shared keywords).

**Mr Morden**

Re the "Have to buy all the books negative it works both ways if someone wants to try any flavour of Marines then he can buy one book and try them out. Same with Eldar. Anything Imperial but non Marine - just the one book for that

Compare that to what he or she would have needed before!

**ClockworkZion**

Mr Morden wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Is the book in the boxed set the same one that you can buy?

Yeah thats annoying - I want the mini rulebook so its actually useful !

You can print the mini-rulebook for free. That book has a large collection of everything else you need outside of the core rules for a game.

**nintura**

Mr Morden wrote:
Re the "Have to buy all the books negative it works both ways if someone wants to try any flavour of Marines then he can buy one book and try them out. Same with Eldar. Anything Imperial but non Marine - just the one book for that

Compare that to what he or she would have needed before!

Yep. My 1k Sons only needs 1 book instead of 3 now.

**lord marcus**

I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.

**Chopxsticks**

As an AoS player Im pretty salty at how cool the new 8th 40k release is compared to the trash 4 page pamphlet we got...

**Mr Morden**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Is the book in the boxed set the same one that you can buy?

Yeah thats annoying - I want the mini rulebook so its actually useful !

You can print the mini-rulebook for free. That book has a large collection of everything else you need outside of the core rules for a game.

Hmm - Yeha but I really wanted a rulebook with ALL the rules but in a useable format not a clunky great hardback.

**Megaknob**

ClockworkZion wrote:
In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.

Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.

I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.

So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.

Well said sir and let this be a end to the complaints of flyers breaking mid air.

**Kriswall**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Is the book in the boxed set the same one that you can buy?

Yeah thats annoying - I want the mini rulebook so its actually useful !

You can print the mini-rulebook for free. That book has a large collection of everything else you need outside of the core rules for a game.

You can print a SMALL portion of the rulebook for free. This small portion does not have what you need to play what will most likely be the most commonly played form of 40k... Matched Play. The overwhelming majority (matched play/missions/objectives/stratagems/etc) will only be available in the large format, hardbound book.

Many, many people liked the old, small format rulebooks that had comprehensive rules, but no fluff. I don't relish the idea of having to lug around a 280 page, hardbound book whenever I want to play a game. I'd rather have a smaller, cheaper to produce, rule only version of the FULL rule book in the new starter and have the starter be cheaper. No doubt it's a bargain, but it could definitely be cheaper with cheaper components.

**ClockworkZion**

Mr Morden wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Is the book in the boxed set the same one that you can buy?

Yeah thats annoying - I want the mini rulebook so its actually useful !

You can print the mini-rulebook for free. That book has a large collection of everything else you need outside of the core rules for a game.

Hmm - Yeha but I really wanted a rulebook with ALL the rules but in a useable format not a clunky great hardback.

We may see one later. That or we're getting enough game and mission types that you really do need a large book.

**NivlacSupreme**

Right. This may be slightly off topic but I'm so excited.

Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.

**ClockworkZion**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Right. This may be slightly off topic but I'm so excited.

Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.

There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.

**NivlacSupreme**

ClockworkZion wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Right. This may be slightly off topic but I'm so excited.

Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.

There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.

There's the little GM screen looking thing that says "Core Rules".

**Warhams-77**

lord marcus wrote:
I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.

How would someone know, the box is going to be released in 3 weeks

**ClockworkZion**

NivlacSupreme wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Right. This may be slightly off topic but I'm so excited.

Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.

There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.

There's the little GM screen looking thing that says "Core Rules".

Yeah, that's the same thing you can print for free. It won't have the game type or mission rules.

**Mr Morden**

Is it just me or are the cartoon 40k people very cool

On the book size - Hardback clunker is simply a PITA when you are playing - I had both for 6th ed and the hardback never left the shelf

**nintura**

Warhams-77 wrote:
lord marcus wrote:
I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.
How would someone know, the box is going to be released in 3 weeks

Look up? Or look at the photo...

**NivlacSupreme**

ClockworkZion wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
Right. This may be slightly off topic but I'm so excited.

Basically the way me and my friend are splitting it means that he gets the little rule pamphlet (I'm assuming they could spare 1/ pages for the basic rules in the MRB), the Nurgle book, the plague marines and the ruler and I get the Primarii, the MRB and the dice (which will go to my third friend who's tagging along). Then I'm going to get the first Imperium book. And maybe some BA pads.

There is no little book this time, just a full sized tome.

There's the little GM screen looking thing that says "Core Rules".

Yeah, that's the same thing you can print for free. It won't have the game type or mission rules.

My friends not really the biggest fan of reading, he'll just want to look at the rules.

**Gamgee**

That plague drone looks cool. I've always liked the FW one.

**Souleater**

The Nurgle models look top notch. Loads of character and detail. The Primaris look a lot less interesting in numbers.

I am quite tempted to start a little Nurgle force with these guys.

**tneva82**

ClockworkZion wrote:
In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.

Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.

I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.

So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.

And again people mixing up realism and making sense.

You DO know you can have perfectly unrealistic world that makes sense? It's dime in a dozen archievement among quality writers. But then again GW game designers aren't exactly quality ones so no wonder they can't make rules that even if their life depended on it.

**Aipoch**

Mr Morden wrote:
Is it just me or are the cartoon 40k people very cool

On the book size - Hardback clunker is simply a PITA when you are playing - I had both for 6th ed and the hardback never left the shelf

They are, indeed, pretty damn cool. Reminds me of the old Penny Arcade style for when World of Warcraft was first launched. I would love it if GW did something similar, with the same brand of humor (think, watching a Space Marine rolling dice, having one of them land perfectly cock-eye'd, and shouting at it while pointing menacingly "HERESY!"; dice starts sweating, falls over, lands as a 1, zoom in close up to the Space Marine reaching for his bolt pistol, dice flips to a 6).

Good times. Totally how dice work, too.

**Youn**

Warhams-77 wrote:
lord marcus wrote:
I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.
How would someone know, the box is going to be released in 3 weeks

Based on the ruler you can see in that picture.

Primaris and Death guard come on 25mm or 28mm bases.
All characters come on 32mm bases.

The drone, Lord of Contagion , Noxious Blightbringer came on a 40mm base.
The Inceptors come on curved 32mm flight bases.

**tneva82**

Ghaz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-death-guard/

Faction Focus: Death Guard

However, the fact that those high-Strength weapons usually do more than 1 Damage now, means you may need to take multiple Disgustingly Resilient rolls.

Umm how that is going to work? Assuming you have W2 troops and l3 ascannons shoots and causes 6, 3 and 2 wounds. You can't roll 11 dices and just count wounds off as that would basically be spilling over. Is it 2 wounds per model=6 wounds total and roll those? So basically you never roll for the overkill? (probably this). Nuttiest would be rolling damage one at a time but as if they went that.

Well as I wrote realized it's probably roll damage, remove overkill wounds and roll then. Can't figure other solution that works fast. Interesting they went opposite of armour save logic there though. Better for defender(more even distribution) but more dice rollling=slower game.

**MrDwhitey**

Judging from prior images, the Primaris and Death Guard will be on 32mm, with 40mm characters (and a 50mm Lord and maybe 60mm Drone, whilst the sorcerer sorta looks like a 32mm).

Plagueridden humies probably still 25mm.

**ClockworkZion**

tneva82 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
In a game with giant space locusts, asexual fungi-xeno hybrids, undead robot zombies, post-human supermen, space nuns, Space India if it was Communist, poncy space elves, BDSM space elves, space elf clowns, and beings from an alternate dimension that is basically hell, flyers being able to turn on a dime should be the last complaint about not making sense.

Either the pilot pulled a quick turning manuever to end up on a reverse flight path, or the flyer is full of future tech that let,s it double in a VTOL kind of fashion similar to a Harrier, allowing it to temporarilly arrest forward momentum to make turns that it shouldn't normally make.

I mean if that bothers you still, why not consider the fact that the all the human flyers basically don't fly as much as they do fall towards the horizon faster than they fall down. ORKS have more understanding of areodynamics than the Imperium.

So yeah, turning around should be the last complaint regarding things making sense, not the first.

And again people mixing up realism and making sense.

You DO know you can have perfectly unrealistic world that makes sense? It's dime in a dozen archievement among quality writers. But then again GW game designers aren't exactly quality ones so no wonder they can't make rules that even if their life depended on it.

I have pointed out stuff that doesn't make sense even in the setting. There are very few Imperial aircraft that should be able to fly due to insane drag due to their shapes. And yet they do. So why is it a problem that they can both fly and turn around?

You decided that this was a problem for you and want to make it a problem for everyone else. It's not an issue. Quit trying to break the game that isn't out yet.

**Kriswall**

Youn wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
lord marcus wrote:
I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.
How would someone know, the box is going to be released in 3 weeks

Based on the ruler you can see in that picture.

Primaris and Death guard come on 25mm or 28mm bases.
All characters come on 32mm bases.

The drone, Lord of Contagion , Noxious Blightbringer came on a 40mm base.
The Inceptors come on curved 32mm flight bases.

I think you're wrong on this. I'm seeing Primaris Marines on 32mm bases, just like normal Marines. I can't see the bigger dudes being on smaller bases. That puts the Marine characters on 40mm bases and the Contagion Lord/Drone thing on 50mm bases.

**Warhams-77**

Drone and Nurgle Lord are on 50mm or even 60mm, are they not?

**Youn**

Either way, with the ruler in the front and people knowing generally what bases those are in the picture. It wasn't too hard to figure out what they are. The question really is does the base size matter now?

Granted all my old deathguard are on 25mm bases, except my deathguard terminators. Which are on 32s.

**Alessander**

I'm getting either conflicing pricing or GW is marking up the American prices WAAAAY over the exchange rate.

£95 GBP (=$123 USD today) for the Boxed set, £15 GBP (= $19 USD today) per Index.

but also ticketed as...
$160 USD for the Box Set, $25 USD per Index.

That's a 30% markup!!!!

Can anyone confirm? Is this as bad as Australia's markup?