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DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.

Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.

"Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch."

This is from the psychic article. It doesn't claim mortal wounds specific to psychic powers punch through armor and saves, but just in general. It's possible these articles are incorrect, but it may also be possible that what you play-tested didn't make the cut.

changemod wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:


The army IS changing. If this is a rescale, which is most certainly is, then in 2 years I will not be able to purchase current batch marines because GW will have phased them out into Primaris as the new standard. Which means my army is then obselete. There is no "leave it as is" or "phase them out" as my army is no longer my army, its a bunch of OOP models.

I don't believe the underlined portion will happen. I guess we'll see.

I believe they're going the "priest with a plasma gun" route: the rules for old marines will last a long time/indefinitely; however, production of new kits relating to this line will cease with the exclusion of FW Horus Heresy stuff. In which case I guess Forgeworld will have to have *some* variability in what they product, even if it's all marines

I'd be utterly shocked if this Autumn doesn't have a board game with plastic Mark 2 or Mark 5.

I don't know if we'll be seeing another Horus Heresy boxset. The whole purpose of these kits was to encourage people to get into 30k, and the two sets with Mk-III and Mk-IV covers that- the rest they want you to purchase from FW.

The good thing about the new-40k is it will give FW a number of opportunities for entirely novel kits.

Didn't consider the S16, guess thats the same for knights...

so ye wounding almost everything on 2's also hitting on 2's if ye got the wounds.... with a 3 or 4 dmg

will wreck every normal vehicle in one round of combat with ease... nice.

 Accolade wrote:
I don't know if we'll be seeing another Horus Heresy boxset. The whole purpose of these kits was to encourage people to get into 30k, and the two sets with Mk-III and Mk-IV covers that- the rest they want you to purchase from FW.

They've been super top selling items. I have overwhelming confidence that there'll be a third on that alone, it's basically liscence to print money.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.

But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.

Yeah... that's about how I feel. But I'm pretty distrustful of how they're handling this, and it's really feeling like "new" GW is just smarter/better PR GW doing the same old things.

 Deadshot wrote:



I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .

2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.

MaxT wrote:



No! As peeps on this forum has said, you cannot as soon as Primaris Marines are released! GW will ban you! They will come round your house and smash them! And gak on your bed while they're there!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! *Vader pose*

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.

But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.

Yeah... that's about how I feel. But I'm pretty distrustful of how they're handling this, and it's really feeling like "new" GW is just smarter/better PR GW doing the same old things.

I'm curious to know how you gents think gw should have handled this exactly? Should they have told everyone these marines will replace old marines eventually, or that they replace old marines right out of the dark imperium box, with no new statline and no primaris 'keyword.' Or that they will no longer produce the old marine kits in X amount of years? Would that make fewer people angry? I seriously doubt it.

I doubt they even know those time frames to tell customers.

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:



I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .

2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.

Yeah, but what about the rest of my collection? I only have about a company's worth, what about the other 900 marines I haven't yet got to build and will never get the chance to?

eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.

Mchaagen wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are only so many "Oh no, Centurions/Stormhawk Interceptors/Stormtalon Gunships/Stormraven Gunships/Stalker AA tanks/Thunderfire Cannons/Ironclad Dreadnoughts/Land Speeder Storms/Nephilim Jetfighters/Dark Talons/Darkshrouds/Land Speeder Vengeances/Deathwing Knights/Ravenwing Black Knights/Stormwolves/Stormfangs/Thunderwolf Cavalry have always been there, just slightly off camera!" before the retconning gets out of hand. Some might argue that it already is.

But to release a new range of Space Marines and then say "No! They're totes just differenter Marines and the old ones are still good! They're not going anywhere! Honest! Have we ever lied about that before in the past? Of course not! You can trust us. Also Chaos Marines are big now because... umm... THE WARP!" just reeks of a level of cynicism not seen since the Sigmarines came into existence.

Yeah... that's about how I feel. But I'm pretty distrustful of how they're handling this, and it's really feeling like "new" GW is just smarter/better PR GW doing the same old things.

I'm curious to know how you gents think gw should have handled this exactly? Should they have told everyone these marines will replace old marines eventually, or that they replace old marines right out of the dark imperium box, with no new statline and no primaris 'keyword.' Or that they will no longer produce the old marine kits in X amount of years? Would that make fewer people angry? I seriously doubt it.

I doubt they even know those time frames to tell customers.

Categorically state "Primaris Marines will not replace regular marines and we will support both ranges" or "Primaris Marines will eventually replace regulars, but not for several years, get your panic buying while you can!" or else just don't bother with these abominations.

Its the primaris roided scouts i'm looking forward to XD

 Deadshot wrote:

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:



I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .

2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.

Yeah, but what about the rest of my collection? I only have about a company's worth, what about the other 900 marines I haven't yet got to build and will never get the chance to?

What about them?

 Slinky wrote:
eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.

New on sprue? Doubt it, there's only so much stock in the world.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Slinky wrote:
eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.

New on sprue? Doubt it, there's only so much stock in the world.

You can still get beaky marines on sprue now, 20 years later ! Lets not hyperbole too much.

 Latro_ wrote:
Its the primaris roided scouts i'm looking forward to XD

Assuming Primaris Scouts are a thing. Perhaps the Primaris process is performed at the Battle Brother stage like the Black Carapace.

Requizen wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Pete Melvin wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:



I could, but do you look at the RT/2E models next to modern plastics and think "This is fine?" I could, because they're all Marines. I wouldn't be able to when they have huge super marines and regular marines and pretend everything is fine, because I don't want Super mega ultramarines, .

2015 Marines are almost as big as a 94 Terminator. 88 Marine is a dwarf compared to 15 Marine. No one is going to melt down your marines and tell you you can't play anymore.

Yeah, but what about the rest of my collection? I only have about a company's worth, what about the other 900 marines I haven't yet got to build and will never get the chance to?

What about them?

I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).

Mchaagen wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Skipping the wound roll is EXACTLY what I expect to be the norm. As I said, both example we have skp the "to-wound" roll. I'd love to be wrong, but I doubt that I am.

Doc: I'm a playtester, with the Adepticon team. If you're referring to psychic powers, you may be correct. If you're referring to weapons, you're not.

"Mortal Wounds are a new mechanic too – these cannot be saved by any means and punch straight through thick armour and even invulnerable saves! Ouch."

This is from the psychic article. It doesn't claim mortal wounds specific to psychic powers punch through armor and saves, but just in general. It's possible these articles are incorrect, but it may also be possible that what you play-tested didn't make the cut.

McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Slinky wrote:
eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.

New on sprue? Doubt it, there's only so much stock in the world.

I just sold a new on sprue, unpunched original 1990 HeroQuest game last year. If they no longer support marine kits several years from now, I'm sure there will still be new on sprue models years later.

It's fine, don't endanger your ability to playtest in the future. Honestly, we are going to get out answer within the next couple weeks straight from being able to read the small core rules foldout.

I would assume the demos on the 3rd are going to allow us a look at that item.

MaxT wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Slinky wrote:
eBay will be awash with current-size marines for years on end, just as it is today.

New on sprue? Doubt it, there's only so much stock in the world.

You can still get beaky marines on sprue now, 20 years later ! Lets not hyperbole too much.

Will I still be able to get every single currently produced Space Marine kit with all its chapter specific variants and Pick-N-mix-ability in abundance, new on sprue, whenever I want, without prices skyrocketing as people realise this is the ONLY source of said models, as with older metal models and trading cards? Absolutely not.


I have no problems with Primaris being added to the game, on the promise that the current marine line isn't going to vanish the way Brettonia and Tomb Kings did.

 Deadshot wrote:

I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).

I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".

Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.

 docdoom77 wrote:
Ya know, since there is no Statistic cap anymore, this thing fights in combat at S16!

2+ to wound vs anything T8 or less.

Funny, that is exactly what dreadnaught close combat weapons did before....

 kestral wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
Ya know, since there is no Statistic cap anymore, this thing fights in combat at S16!

2+ to wound vs anything T8 or less.

Funny, that is exactly what dreadnaught close combat weapons did before....

Ah, but now, if we run into a T10 model (who knows if that will happen or not) it wounds on 3's rather than 4's.

DCannon4Life wrote:

McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.

It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.

Mchaagen wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.

It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.

Punching through armor and invuln saves has nothing to do with "to wound" rolls, so both his statement and that statement can be true.

Mchaagen wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.

It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.

That has nothing to do with how the MW is generated. There are plenty of abilities in AoS that state something like "on a 6+ to Wound, this deals a Mortal Wound instead".

Requizen wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).

I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".

Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.

I'm replying to quotes in the conversation with me. I said I don't like it, people asked why, I gave reasons, they respond, I respond, ad infinitum until the conversation finishes, its how conversation works is all.

I'm not looking for attention or pity. With that last post I'm just looking for enough respect when I say "I'm sad my models will no longer be produced and I will no longer be able to participate in the hobby" that people don't say "boo hoo buy something else."

Scale, design and size change, but replacement is something different. Deathwatch are larger size, but same scale, and don't replace anything, they add to the range. Primaris will eventually replace, not add, to the line. I want to keep painting and collective (don't really play anymore though) for the foreseeable future, but my models are going to be killed off. That's all I'm saying.

Painted miniatures can be seen in many (GW?) shops by now - by Lastlostboy on gw-fanworld.de forum

 Deadshot wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).

I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".

Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.

I'm replying to quotes in the conversation with me. I said I don't like it, people asked why, I gave reasons, they respond, I respond, ad infinitum until the conversation finishes, its how conversation works is all.

I'm not looking for attention or pity. With that last post I'm just looking for enough respect when I say "I'm sad my models will no longer be produced and I will no longer be able to participate in the hobby" that people don't say "boo hoo buy something else."

Scale, design and size change, but replacement is something different. Deathwatch are larger size, but same scale, and don't replace anything, they add to the range. Primaris will eventually replace, not add, to the line. I want to keep painting and collective (don't really play anymore though) for the foreseeable future, but my models are going to be killed off. That's all I'm saying.

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear. There are no stated plans for this, there have been multiple statements that Primaris != Tacticals. All you're doing is imagining the worst case scenario in your mind and trying to project it onto reality.

Requizen wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

I'm glad that it doesn't affect you, that's great news for you that you're content with NuMarines replacing the old and you're okay with it. Have some sympathy and respect for us that don't like the new models and don't want our ranges killed off, or those that already saw that happen (Brets and Tomb Kings).

I'm just curious what you're trying to say with all these posts. Because it sounds like you're just looking for pity when it's clear than you're in the minority worrying about this "problem".

Scale, design, and size change over the years. That picture showed that it's happened multiple times to space marines alone, and Xenos and Daemons have gone through it as well. You can either keep playing the game or not. Whining and begging for attention isn't going to change the situation.

What's wrong with making something totally random up and then complaining that a company didn't specifically address the nonsense you made up??

Come on, you're talking like he's being unreasonable!