40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Mymearan**

Deadshot wrote:
Justyn wrote:
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.

I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.

To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:

Profit
Break even
Loss

Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.

Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually. people buy them because they don't have the time to buy and sell themselves, all they want is that one squad and they don't give a feck about the price as long as it's well below squad box price. Its a win-win.

**lessthanjeff**

I didn't have a leviathan dreadnought. Can anyone comment on if the grav-flux bombard worked similarly to other grav weapons as an indication of what to expect for grav guns/cannons?

**Crimson**

Requizen wrote:

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.

No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.

**Roknar**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

WEEE finally we get in on the leviathan train

and omfg lol
That thing sounds insane Oo.
Another thing of note is the mark of chaos keyword and legion affiliation.
The rubric marines did NOT have the mark key word and before our vehicles didn't benefit of legion rules due to not having VotLW, it seems now they do.
I suppose it might take the form naming a god though. Rubrics simply have Tzeentch listed, which might well be an instance of a mark.
Could just as well be Mark of * though and we get rules affecting models with the mark of * and actual cult troops are treated differently?

What a glorious day to be a traitor

Although this being ForgeWorld, it doesn't necessarily mean we will get a new model.
Can't wait for conversions of these things either way, thgouh I might simply splurge for a decimator. Always liked the model, but the rules were a bit iffy.

**Mchaagen**

docdoom77 wrote:
Mchaagen wrote:
DCannon4Life wrote:

McHaagen: While it may be the case that playtesters sometimes operate 'blind' (not knowing what form final rules/point costs take), that has not been the case for us. The text you quoted does not specifically state whether or not Mortal Wounds, as a wound 'Type', need to make To Wound rolls or not. If I write that something 'may' be one way or another, it's because I'm being conservative and trying to stay within my understanding of my NDA, not because I don't actually know. However, I am vested in moderating people's misunderstandings before they take root in the community, hence my participation in this thread.

It says "it punches straight through thick armor and even invulnerable saves." How exactly should we evaluate that statement. Either it's worded correctly or it isn't. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but you have stated so. You could be correct, I've no idea.

Punching through armor and invuln saves has nothing to do with "to wound" rolls, so both his statement and that statement can be true.

Right, maybe I'm reading too much into armor to toughness changes and not armor 'saving throws.'

**sarduka42**

Warhams-77 wrote:
Painted miniatures can be seen in many (GW?) shops by now - by Lastlostboy on gw-fanworld.de forum

Why are the Plague marines not the same size as the standard space marine? Shouldn't the Primaris Space Marines tower over the Plague Marine too? Or is everything being upscaled?

**Requizen**

Crimson wrote:
Requizen wrote:

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.

No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.

Says who? Your assumption is that Primaris will replace Marines. My assumption is that, if they do remove the current Marines from the line, they will replace them with new Tacticals (probably in a larger scale) and not just remove them.

You know what both of those assumptions have in common? Neither are based on anything but feelings.

**Deadshot**

Mymearan wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Justyn wrote:
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.

I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.

To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:

Profit
Break even
Loss

Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.

Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually.

Selling at above their portion of the starter set is selling above retail. The monpose aren't the same as the multipart, which are vastly superior in terms of options, customisation and posing. Selling at retail would be selling at the % of the value of the box to which they are equivilent. Selling them above this price is selling above board. It also doesn't make sense for this edition because anyone who wants the models can just buy the starter set and selling on the rulebook, which is a necessity to everyone. Its just market sizing. The market for rulebooks is huge, the market for models comparatively small (especially as we can pretty much guarentee that Primaris multiparts will be the first release of the new edition as the new poster boys, which will have the actually useful options in the kit and not in the starter set versions).

**axisofentropy**

docdoom77 wrote:
kestral wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
Ya know, since there is no Statistic cap anymore, this thing fights in combat at S16!

2+ to wound vs anything T8 or less.

Funny, that is exactly what dreadnaught close combat weapons did before....

Ah, but now, if we run into a T10 model (who knows if that will happen or not) it wounds on 3's rather than 4's.

I think some buildings are T10.

**Neronoxx**

Deadshot wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Justyn wrote:
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.

I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.

To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:

Profit
Break even
Loss

Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.

Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually.

Selling at above their portion of the starter set is selling above retail. The monpose aren't the same as the multipart, which are vastly superior in terms of options, customisation and posing. Selling at retail would be selling at the % of the value of the box to which they are equivilent. Selling them above this price is selling above board. It also doesn't make sense for this edition because anyone who wants the models can just buy the starter set and selling on the rulebook, which is a necessity to everyone. Its just market sizing. The market for rulebooks is huge, the market for models comparatively small (especially as we can pretty much guarentee that Primaris multiparts will be the first release of the new edition as the new poster boys, which will have the actually useful options in the kit and not in the starter set versions).

The more you post the less I'm convinced you understand what you are talking about, or are sincerely trolling.

**EmberlordofFire8**

Anyone noticed this yet?

**Deadshot**

Requizen wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Requizen wrote:

You are the only one assuming that Primaris will replace regular marines and that old ones will just disappear.

No he is not. This will abso-fething-lutely happen. Personally I don't mind, as I really like the new models, but let's not kid ourselves; it is merely a question of how fast it will happen rather than whether it will happen. Some old marine kits may be maintained as part of the HH line, but 40K will eventually become primaris only.

Says who? Your assumption is that Primaris will replace Marines. My assumption is that, if they do remove the current Marines from the line, they will replace them with new Tacticals (probably in a larger scale) and not just remove them.

You know what both of those assumptions have in common? Neither are based on anything but feelings.

- Primaris are the new poster boys
- Lack of regular marines in the starter set, which has contained Marines since forever (2nd Ed right?)
- Fluff says regulars can be turned into Primaris as they please, and can get replacement Marines that are superior to the casualties, who would turn this down?
- Primaris equivilents of all current SM main units (Tacticals, Assault, Devs, Captains)
- Rescaled vehicles

**judgedoug**

Has it been confirmed that each unit's stats will be available as a free download like Age of Sigmar units?

**lord marcus**

Meanwhile I'm looking for dark vengeance and black reach stuff...

**Vector Strike**

judgedoug wrote:
Has it been confirmed that each unit's stats will be available as a free download like Age of Sigmar units?

Nope. In fact, I won't expect it - as they have already released the 5 books coming with the launch.
Only the booklet with 12 pages will be free

**Bubbalicious**

Another size comparison pic

**Deadshot**

Neronoxx wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Mymearan wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Justyn wrote:
GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.

I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.

To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:

Profit
Break even
Loss

Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.

Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Selling individual squads from starters at way above their share of the starter price, but still quite a bit below retail for the same squad in its multipart incarnation, has been a thing since forever and will continue to be. You will easily make quite a big profit if you buy the starter, keep the book and sell all the squads individually.

Selling at above their portion of the starter set is selling above retail. The monpose aren't the same as the multipart, which are vastly superior in terms of options, customisation and posing. Selling at retail would be selling at the % of the value of the box to which they are equivilent. Selling them above this price is selling above board. It also doesn't make sense for this edition because anyone who wants the models can just buy the starter set and selling on the rulebook, which is a necessity to everyone. Its just market sizing. The market for rulebooks is huge, the market for models comparatively small (especially as we can pretty much guarentee that Primaris multiparts will be the first release of the new edition as the new poster boys, which will have the actually useful options in the kit and not in the starter set versions).

The more you post the less I'm convinced you understand what you are talking about, or are sincerely trolling.

I never troll, I have better things to entertain myself with.

There is no reason to buy these models. Superior ones will be released shortly after. You also CANNOT get the models for gaming and not get the rulebook. The sensible move is to buy a starter set, therefore getting you said models and the rulebook, which is needed. If you then want MORE models, you should wait a few weeks and see what is actually worth getting. You may quickly find that 5 plasma guns on your PriMarines is a terrible idea because they can take X option which comes in the multipart kits. That leaves a handful of people who just want more plasma or bolt toting guys for cheap. That group would be better off buying up another starter set for themselves, then selling on the rulebook at a discount to the ones who don't want the models at all, rather than buying up models from ebay. If done right, making use of online retailer discounts, you can actually be in profit. But I can't see a single reason to buy up hordes of snapfits when you don't even know what they can be armed with that's actually useful, and are vastly inferior models to the multi

**Warhams-77**

EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
Anyone noticed this yet?

Maxim Pastourel has been working at GW for a few years now and designed the new Death Guard models (as part of a team of 2). Here are more pics of his personal, converted army and a link to his blog. It was featured in Warhammer Visions in 2016

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326274-maxime-pastourel-nurgle-force/

**Anpu42**

Bubbalicious wrote:
Another size comparison pic

So from what I am seeing, if I take my yet to be put on 32mm base Marines and just glue my 25mm base on the 32mm it would be just about right...

**judgedoug**

Vector Strike wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
Has it been confirmed that each unit's stats will be available as a free download like Age of Sigmar units?

Nope. In fact, I won't expect it - as they have already released the 5 books coming with the launch.
Only the booklet with 12 pages will be free

Hmm, the Grand Alliance books are roughly the same price and just contain the same Warscrolls that are available for free to download. You don't think 40k will follow the same methodology?

**tneva82**

theharrower wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.

It's not thatbad in 7th(if anythgng tad overpriced) but that mortal wound is not nice. Less those in game the healthier.

Also grav weapon doesn't fit old style at all

**nintura**

sarduka42 wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Painted miniatures can be seen in many (GW?) shops by now - by Lastlostboy on gw-fanworld.de forum

Why are the Plague marines not the same size as the standard space marine? Shouldn't the Primaris Space Marines tower over the Plague Marine too? Or is everything being upscaled?

Lol you must not have read the last 3 pages where this has been asked a dozen times

Or read the FAQ that GW stated the Chaos Gods have been busy making their traitors more powerful.

**tneva82**

RamblingCompanyGaming wrote:
theharrower wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Not familiar with a lot of the Forge World stuff, but isn't this way over the top? Every weapon does more than 1 damage except for the one that does mortal wounds and skips the to wound roll.

Honestly, that is not great if you are shooting at infantry, since they are only one wound a piece.

Umm d1 hurts vs vehicles, nmt infantry that tends to have w1

**Justyn**

Was there any mention of the Forgeworld index books being available in stores on release day. Or were they going to be available to order.

**Mchaagen**

Justyn wrote:
Was there any mention of the Forgeworld index books being available in stores on release day. Or were they going to be available to order.

Yes,
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/forge-world-and-the-new-warhammer-40000/

No mention of 'in-store.'

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Justyn wrote:
Was there any mention of the Forgeworld index books being available in stores on release day. Or were they going to be available to order.

All they said was that they go up for pre-order the same day as everything else.

**zedsdead**

nintura wrote:
Wow that Leviathan... when your weakest weapon is a melta gun, that's just scary. can't wait to see what my Salamanders Leviathan looks like.

Should be interesting , however i wouldnt hold my breath on Sally Levs getting better. The Leviathan was immune to chapter tactics in 7th so i wouldnt be suprised if they dont get Salamander buffs this time around. Guess we will wait to see.

I run one in my Salamander army as well.. however it struggled to make up his points. Yea he was a beast in combat but getting him in combat with something juicy was always a struggle. Anyone running a Knight kept its distance.

To make the Leviathan effective he needed a Pod and sometimes it was good to add the IstvannIV trait to prevent scatter. This was around 400 pts. I always felt either 2 Ironclads were better for the points or a Imperial Knight was better with its 12" movement.

He however like you said never ever died in a single game i played him in, he also dominated whatever portion of the table he was in. He was more fun and fluffy then competitive.

**mdauben**

Albino Squirrel wrote:
At this point, most of these teaser articles are just making me less excited about the new edition. Especially the faction focus ones. There's so little about how the rules will fit the background or make for a fun game or make for interesting choices during a game. It's all "this unit wasn't very good before, now it's awesome!!!" Or "here's a rule that doesn't fit the background at all but will make this unit awesome!!!"

Yeah, based on some of the earlier rumors/info I was really hoping for something really new and differnt. Now it sounds just like every other version of 40K. Another big, expensive rulebook, another series of expensive codexes (probably accompanied by more codex creep). I guess I won't be getting back into 40K this edition, either.

**Kanluwen**

judgedoug wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
Has it been confirmed that each unit's stats will be available as a free download like Age of Sigmar units?

Nope. In fact, I won't expect it - as they have already released the 5 books coming with the launch.
Only the booklet with 12 pages will be free

Hmm, the Grand Alliance books are roughly the same price and just contain the same Warscrolls that are available for free to download. You don't think 40k will follow the same methodology?

At this point, we just don't know.

It might be that the basic Datasheets with the Power Levels will be available as free downloads and that the Index books will include all of that plus the points for Matched Play.

**nintura**

zedsdead wrote:
nintura wrote:
Wow that Leviathan... when your weakest weapon is a melta gun, that's just scary. can't wait to see what my Salamanders Leviathan looks like.

Should be interesting , however i wouldnt hold my breath on Sally Levs getting better. The Leviathan was immune to chapter tactics in 7th so i wouldnt be suprised if they dont get Salamander buffs this time around. Guess we will wait to see.

I run one in my Salamander army as well.. however it struggled to make up his points. Yea he was a beast in combat but getting him in combat with something juicy was always a struggle. Anyone running a Knight kept its distance.

To make the Leviathan effective he needed a Pod and sometimes it was good to add the IstvannIV trait to prevent scatter. This was around 400 pts. I always felt either 2 Ironclads were better for the points or a Imperial Knight was better with its 12" movement.

He however like you said never ever died in a single game i played him in, he also dominated whatever portion of the table he was in. He was more fun and fluffy then competitive.

Well, I generally meant my Leviathan in my Salamanders army. I just referred to it as my Sally Lev. Mine has done nothing but wreck stuff. Blew up that AV 15 structure building with D-cannon thing. Killed a Baneblade. Knights, everything. But then I do use a pod, the Lucius Pattern pod. He's never been killed and that pod is worth every point.