Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

Vanguard Vets can take a variable number of stormshields.

 Brotherjanus wrote:
Say you have 3 lascannon hits and 4 bolter hits that have wounded and saves have been failed. You would allocate the successful wounding hits depending on what's best as the defender. For example, a unit of 5 Ork Nobs with 3 wounds each. You would resolve the bolter wounds first dealing 3 damage to a healthy Nob killing it then one damage to a second healthy Nob. You then assign one lascannon hit against the now damaged Nob. Roll for damage. If you roll a 1 the lucky Nob lives to soak the next hit, otherwise he alone is removed (2-6 damage doesn't matter as 2 will kill him). It then goes from 2 total dead Nobs to 5 dead Nobs depending on die rolls. This is one example and it will speed up once everyone plays it a few times.

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
There shouldn't be a situation where multiple models are wounded.

Wounds are allocated before taking saves, so the first time a unit takes saves it's theoretically possible for multiple models to be injured at the same time.

They are technically allocated one at a time, so you could never assign them to multiple models simultaneously. So you would allocate 1 wound, take the save, if model takes a wound he must take the next save otherwise it can go on a different model. To speed this up for multiple models with the same save you would roll saves then allocate.

That sounds rather complicated and slowed. Multi-wound model units would be a PITA to play quickly in this method.

Yes, but the rules quoted are for making attacks one at a time. The speed up rules might be (for multiple attacks at the same time), roll to hit, roll to wound, take saves (if the same), allocate wounds, roll for damage. Which you would use for all circumstances without mixed saves, which are most units.

Wounds are allocated first in the chart, so I don't know why people keep trying to swap that around.

That said single wound models can easily follow the chart as presented, it's only slowed when dealing with multi-wound models and needing to kill a single model before moving on to the next.

Because we don't know if it is swapped around for making multiple attack rolls at once. Look at the first paragraph under resolve attacks it states that the rules shown are for resolving single attacks, and not for rolling multiple attacks at the same time. IN this case it is irrelevant what order you do things in as allocate then save is no different than save then allocate other than that you know whether or not you will fail the save prior to allocation, but unless you are putting it on valuable models first this makes no difference.

Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

I can think of Saint Celestine, Techmarine with Servitors and Inquisitor with Henchmen. In all of those cases, I am betting the dataslate has something special written on it.

tneva82 wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:
Say you have 3 lascannon hits and 4 bolter hits that have wounded and saves have been failed. You would allocate the successful wounding hits depending on what's best as the defender. For example, a unit of 5 Ork Nobs with 3 wounds each. You would resolve the bolter wounds first dealing 3 damage to a healthy Nob killing it then one damage to a second healthy Nob. You then assign one lascannon hit against the now damaged Nob. Roll for damage. If you roll a 1 the lucky Nob lives to soak the next hit, otherwise he alone is removed (2-6 damage doesn't matter as 2 will kill him). It then goes from 2 total dead Nobs to 5 dead Nobs depending on die rolls. This is one example and it will speed up once everyone plays it a few times.

For defender wouldnt best be bolter, bolter, lascannon, bolter, lc, lc?

Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

I can think of Saint Celestine, Techmarine with Servitors and Inquisitor with Henchmen. In all of those cases, I am betting the dataslate has something special written on it.

tneva82 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 oni wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
So If I understand correctly (because I’m technically rolling each of these attacks 1 at a time)

-I can batch roll my LasCannons separately from my Lasguns and make the opponent save per model on LasCannons first, followed by Lasguns for maximum effect. i.e. (Lasgun wound does not get eaten up by 2W model before LasCannon finishes him)
This makes sense from a different save/toughness unit (terminator with shield vs. rest of squad without)

I like it, removes shenanigans, and makes it more streamlined

Quite the opposite actually. We're back to 5th edition wound allocation shenanigans. Your opponent will get to allocate the wounds. So it's likely that they'll choose for any Lasgun wounds to go onto normal 2+/5++ Terminators and then place the Lascannon wounds on the 2+/3++ Terminators and vice versa. No matter which shots you chose to do first the opponent can choose the opposite models for allocation.

Unless the model is wounded - then they have no choice. I'll be curious to see if you can have a mixed storm shield unit though. I'm doubtful that it will exist - or stormshields will be different.

Also - shoot only the lascannons at the termies and the lasguns at something else.

Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

I can think of Saint Celestine, Techmarine with Servitors and Inquisitor with Henchmen. In all of those cases, I am betting the dataslate has something special written on it.

davethepak wrote:
Hmmm..... while maybe not a direct replacement...two things;

1 - Why would you take assault marines over the new "tau suit-marines". They are incredibly mobile, dish out amazing damage, and have six wounds a unit.
Maybe if you are expecting lots of incoming low ap damage? not sure. Of course, obviously there could be something I am missing here.

2 - Its not just about taking them as replacements - every unit you take is less points for something else.
if after vehicles, flyers, etc. you only have X points for infantry - why not take the better units?

and this is even before we get the primaris dreads....

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

I can think of Saint Celestine, Techmarine with Servitors and Inquisitor with Henchmen. In all of those cases, I am betting the dataslate has something special written on it.

Inquisitors are ICs and will get shunted from the Henchmen Squads.

Techmarines will likely end up projecting a Mind Lock bubble and become separate characters as well.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

davethepak wrote:
Hmmm..... while maybe not a direct replacement...two things;

1 - Why would you take assault marines over the new "tau suit-marines". They are incredibly mobile, dish out amazing damage, and have six wounds a unit.
Maybe if you are expecting lots of incoming low ap damage? not sure. Of course, obviously there could be something I am missing here.

2 - Its not just about taking them as replacements - every unit you take is less points for something else.
if after vehicles, flyers, etc. you only have X points for infantry - why not take the better units?

and this is even before we get the primaris dreads....

Figuring out the pros and cons of taking Primaris vs taking existing units is something I'm looking forward to and dreading at the same time . Hopefully once we have all the game and army rules there wont be an obvious choice one way or the other.

Breng77 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Youn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Unless they invalidate people's existing units mixed units exists. Lots ofunits could have variable amount

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Note: All characters are now their own units.

I can think of Saint Celestine, Techmarine with Servitors and Inquisitor with Henchmen. In all of those cases, I am betting the dataslate has something special written on it.

Inquisitors are ICs and will get shunted from the Henchmen Squads.

Techmarines will likely end up projecting a Mind Lock bubble and become separate characters as well.

Techmarines are already ICs they don't need to join their servitors, Celestine will likely be separate from her retinue as well.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Only one off the top of my head is a Boyz squad where the Nob can take 'Eavy Armor by himself. I think Broodlords have a different save as well, but they'll probably be taken out the squad and made a Character.

You also have Artificer Armor for all the 30k Tac Squads.

tneva82 wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Only one off the top of my head is a Boyz squad where the Nob can take 'Eavy Armor by himself. I think Broodlords have a different save as well, but they'll probably be taken out the squad and made a Character.

You also have Artificer Armor for all the 30k Tac Squads.

Various terminators, thundeiwolves, wolfen...

Youn wrote:
This edition will seriously weaken Celestine from the tank she used to be. I guess you could put her closest from unit in a hope that your opponent fires at her vs the unit she is next to.

Youn wrote:
This edition will seriously weaken Celestine from the tank she used to be. I guess you could put her closest from unit in a hope that your opponent fires at her vs the unit she is next to.

Dudeface wrote:


All these examples involve storm shields which we don't have rules for, so might be worth holding off on that assumption

Name a unit with Mixed models where the save is different and it's not because a character model has been added.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Interestingly. People were right, there's smaller SH detachments with no benefits. Hell, there's a detachment that DEDUCES COMMAND POINTS!

Daedalus81 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Brotherjanus wrote:
Say you have 3 lascannon hits and 4 bolter hits that have wounded and saves have been failed. You would allocate the successful wounding hits depending on what's best as the defender. For example, a unit of 5 Ork Nobs with 3 wounds each. You would resolve the bolter wounds first dealing 3 damage to a healthy Nob killing it then one damage to a second healthy Nob. You then assign one lascannon hit against the now damaged Nob. Roll for damage. If you roll a 1 the lucky Nob lives to soak the next hit, otherwise he alone is removed (2-6 damage doesn't matter as 2 will kill him). It then goes from 2 total dead Nobs to 5 dead Nobs depending on die rolls. This is one example and it will speed up once everyone plays it a few times.

For defender wouldnt best be bolter, bolter, lascannon, bolter, lc, lc?

If the rules allow it and you wanted to be a cheesy nob then you take bolter hits until you have just one wound left then take a lascannon hit.

I'm sure they'll have stuff governing different weapons and fast rolling in the side bar that we can't see yet.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Interestingly. People were right, there's smaller SH detachments with no benefits. Hell, there's a detachment that DEDUCES COMMAND POINTS!

Spoiler: