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2017/06/04 05:37:56
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
2017/06/04 05:39:55
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd like to see a Looted Grav Raider. Rather than the big thick flightstand you just model a whole mess of Gretchin underneath it, carrying it along.
This now needs to happen.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2017/06/04 06:03:17
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd like to see a Looted Grav Raider. Rather than the big thick flightstand you just model a whole mess of Gretchin underneath it, carrying it along.
Like the good old Greasus Goldtooth. I like the idea
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 06:03:32
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/06/04 06:09:56
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Do they mention anything about the future of the chapters? will they still make marines from their regular geneseed in addition to primaris? is making a current marine primaris spoken of? if its a difficult process i could see maybe Dante and a few others getting upgraded, but if its easy then maybe all will soon be upgraded. any info would be appreciated! thanks
2017/06/04 06:35:15
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Another alternate to the Gravraider. This one goes for a "more is more" approach.
Spoiler:
Not enough dakka!
Because everyone knows- Never go full Dakka!!!
I have seen the new stuff today on display....
The box is straight FULL, at least 25 lbs of succulent horror.
The books.... er.... Lets just say that people are going to be surprised...
The learning curve is a hell of a note, as well...
All in all, it is that time of year, again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 06:42:02
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2017/06/04 06:44:11
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Shadow Walker wrote: Found on vk (Russian fb I believe) - check the ''classified'' - looks like Emperor is ... dead?
TERRA RETALIATES
In an Effort to seize the initiative, a strike
force was mustered on Terra, supported
by an entire army of Adeptus Custodes.
The Custodes found Guilliman the
Primarch of the __________ Forged
_____________________________
________________ those who want the Master of Mankind dead.
2017/06/04 06:55:42
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Thanks for the ongoing support guys, could not have done it without you, especially for this long!
The PMs every morning, and throughout the day, is what is keeping the OP so full of information!
Excellent news! Was hoping it would make it. And the summary is gratefully appreciated. Have been able to direct a couple of non- dakkites there for information.
2017/06/04 07:33:45
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Thanks for the ongoing support guys, could not have done it without you, especially for this long!
The PMs every morning, and throughout the day, is what is keeping the OP so full of information!
Excellent news! Was hoping it would make it. And the summary is gratefully appreciated. Have been able to direct a couple of non- dakkites there for information.
Glad to hear it has been of use, time well spent on updating then in my opinion
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 07:34:17
2017/06/04 08:24:19
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
The real bottleneck I see is that he's gone from having six Elite choices to having 22. Also a total absence of fast attack which locks out the Brigade detachment unfortunately.
If he could scare up six FA choices, he could fit the entire army into two brigades and a vanguard, ending with 22 command points.
Without adding any FA, he should still be able to fit into 3 Battalions and a Vanguard for 13 command points
2017/06/04 09:11:36
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
The real bottleneck I see is that he's gone from having six Elite choices to having 22. Also a total absence of fast attack which locks out the Brigade detachment unfortunately.
If he could scare up six FA choices, he could fit the entire army into two brigades and a vanguard, ending with 22 command points.
Without adding any FA, he should still be able to fit into 3 Battalions and a Vanguard for 13 command points
Oh, indeed, I was just trying to stick with the tournament guidelines for numbers of detachments because, even with all those dudes, that's not a huge number of points.
I think this just shows off the flexibility of the new system though; you can pull together lots of little detachments or a few huge ones but the additional requirements of the latter have a clear benefit on top of the value of the units themselves.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
2017/06/04 09:14:43
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
Not just them. Chosen, havocs, bikers etc
What made me laugh though was the blurb at the beginning of the death guard entry whrre it goes on about massrd infantry, terminators and daemon engines before promptly removing all of them. We did get to keep the defiler though.
Obbiously we've seen the DG terminators and know they're coming. What im mainly interested in is what are they replacing the other stuff with?
DG should have access to chosen, havocs, vindicators etc. I can only hope it means DG will have their own variations on these units and daemon engines
2017/06/04 09:46:49
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary (all info in OP)
Ok, I took notes on Frankie and Reece's gameplay opinions. They also did a rules overview but you guys can read the books yourselves. The stream was like 6 hours so I'm sure I missed a few things, but here you go. Good stuff list is just some of the units/rules they called out. Absence from the list does not imply unit is bad. Very few units/armies were called out as being actually bad. Long post is long. General Stuff Snipers will generally need a couple turns to kill a character. 3 Vindicares is about the level to kill a character a turn. Hit or miss depending on the army you're playing against.
60-90 minute games once you're used to rules and playing quickly. Game shouldn't go longer than 2.5 hours. (2k points)
If a unit has a default weapon on their datasheet, but can replace it with something else, you don't need to buy that default weapon. FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Screening units are going to be important. First turn charges are possible.
Tanks are a lot harder to kill.
Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Weapons were pointed for their specific army, not cross-compared
Ballistari are awesome (both shooting and cc)
Reroll was most used CP
Abilities that prevent falling back are very good
Smite is a solid power for most armies. Smite spam can be pretty strong.
Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Tau overwatch is even better than 7th
Averaging around 6 CPs with most armies. Build towards a better army, not to spam CP.
Imperial Knights always go first
LOS blocking terrain really important, recommend 2-4 pieces at least.
Top 5 factions (Not in order, subject to change): Frankie (Marines, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Orks, Nids) Reece (Harlequins, Scions, Nids, Orks, Marines)
Bottom 5 (Eldar, Inquisition, Demons, Legion of the Damned)
Favorite Rule Change: ICs can't join units
Least Favorite: Exploding Vehicles
Reece: "Open Topped vehicles that can fly are the best vehicles in the game"
Harlequins one of the best armies in the game. Big on Dark Eldar too.
VSG is still really good
Marines
Reece: "Missile Launchers are probably the best ranged weapon in the game"
Lascannon Centurions w/ an Apothecary is a strong unit
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Grey Knights fragile but hit hard. Recommend Paladins
Jump Pack BA are good. Dante + Sanguinor beats your face.
Aura buffs and their interactions are the big part of list building.
Good Space Wolves stuff: Blood/Swift Claws, Wulfen, Rune Priest, Wolf Guard w/ Combis
Get more mileage out of bigger units in general (Blood Claws, 6 Centurions, etc)
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Super expensive units are usually resilient enough to still do some work.
Drop reserves first during deployment.
Dark Angels better then they have ever been. Deathwing Knights, Azrael, Black Knights
Land Speeders w/ 2 heavy flamers is secret sauce.
Don't need anti-air weapons
Flyers are hit and miss. They don't use them that much
Grav is still good, just not auto take.
BA one of the best CC armies
Vindicator sucks
Rowboat is so stronk.
Guard
Manticore probably best Guard artillery. Basilisks and Wyverns good too.
Need to be cognizant of all your Guard characters not being part of a unit now.
Good Guard stuff: Bullgryn w/ Primaris, Rough riders, Scout Sentinels w/ heavy flamer, Scions, Yarrick one of best HQs in game, Taurox Prime OP, Astropaths
Executioner plasma is bad. Battlecannons is good. Double battlecannons on Knights one of the best loadouts.
Stormlord is best superheavy
Index Imperial 2 other stuff
Mechanicus good stuff: Cawl, Electro Priests (shooty and choppy), Iron Striders, Dragoons.
Rangers lackluster, but overall Mechanics units are solid
Knights are one of the stronger armies. 3-4 Knights tough to deal with.
Shooty Knights are better. Stomps better than the sword.
Sisters good stuff: Acts, Celestine (must take), heavy flamers, Repentia, Penitents, Full mech, Priests
Sisters of Silence flamers are best, swords are meh.
Plasma Acolytes + Coteaz
Custodes play pretty much the same.
Orks
Orks good stuff: Jumping Shoota Boys, Meganobz or Gitz, Bosses, Big Meks, Nauts, Burnas, Tankbustas, Big Choppas, Stormboyz, Rokkits, Lootas.
Boyz do a lot more damage. Trukks and sloggers both work. Nobs way better
Dakkajet one of the best flyers.
Stompa is worth the points.
Buggies/Skorchas way better.
Wagon w/ rolla good in combat, hard to kill even w/o 'ard case.
Put skorchas on your walkers. Put wrecking balls on your trukks.
Meganobs good for soaking overwatch
Likes Lootas over Bustas because of range
Tau
Tau good stuff: Crisis Suit armies, Missile pods, Commanders, Stormsurge, Kroot w/ aura buffs, Savior protocols, Sniper drones.
Didn't miss JsJ
Regular Commander > Coldstar
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Fish of Fury is decent. Frankie big on suit armies.
HRR and HYMP both good choices for Broadsides.
Vespids are decent
Tyranids
Tyranids good stuff: Psychic powers, Swarmlord, Swarmlord, Swarmlord, Broodlord (best HQ), genestealers, Prime (2nd best HQ), adrenal glands on all the things, Rippers, Hive Guard, Venomthropes (auto include), Biovores, Damn near everything apparently.
Flyrants still good, but not like 7th.
Tervigon is just ok. Warriors a lot better than before. Termagaunts just ok, Hormaguants awesome. Zoanthropes meh. Pyrovores in a pod are pretty good. Harpy/Crone ok. T-fex not very good
Reece: "Tyrannocyte one of the best transports in the game"
Tyranids can put out lots of mortal wounds from different sources
Lots of deployment options. All medium bugs build is probably hardest to pull off. Nidzalla is really good.
Genestealer cults
Cult good stuff: Ambush, Unquestioned loyalty, Patriarch, psychic powers, Magus, Primus, Acolyte hybrids, the good Guard stuff, the good Nid stuff, Standard Bearer, Goliath
Psychic powers some of the best in game. Unquestioned loyalty one of the strongest rules
MSU is a good strategy. Glass cannon army. Spamming demo charges is good
Eldar
Eldar good stuff: Phoenix Lords except Baharroth, Noobdrad, Avatar, Farseers, Warlocks, Storm Guardians, Wraiths, Dire Avengers, Scorpions, Wave Serpents, Shining Spears, Distort
Eldar got the bat, the world rejoices.
Shuri Cannon > Scatter laser
Wraithlords way better. Banshees super fast, Hawks are ok. Warp Spiders not as good as before. Playstyle is pretty similar to 7th
Fire Prisms are ok. Low damage output
Sun Cannon + Shield is best Knight loadout
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Dark Eldar
Good DE Stuff: Power from Pain, Transports, Drugs, Lillith, No Escape, Drazor + Incubi, Kabalite Warriors, Mandrakes, Reaver jetbikes, Hellions, Flyers, Heat Lance
Archons not that good
No rerollable 2++
MSU not as good. Take 10 man squads
Best flyers
Raiders are hard to kill. Reece "Best transport in the game"
Probably most improved army. One of the best.
Blood Brides > Wyches
Harlequins
Reece and Frankie: "One of the best armies in the game"
Good Harle Stuffs: Psychic powers, Rising Crescendo, Star Weaver, Fusion pistols, Solitaire, Shadow Seer (Best HQ)
Faster than you, shoot better than you, fight better than you.
Just bumrush with Star Weavers and win.
Necrons
Good Necron Stuff: RP, Overlord + Lord + Cryptek, Named Characters, Immortals, Big warrior bricks, Deathmarks, Flayed Ones, Quantum Shielding
Character auras are really powerful and important
Heavy Destros and Warriors for anti-vehicle
Heavy Destros > Doomsday Ark
Wraiths not as good as before
Illuminor is key
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Very resilient army
CSM
Chaos Marines good stuff: Abbadon, Predators, Havocs, Dark Apostle, Warp smith, Marine troops, Cultists, Chosen, Terminators w/ Warp Time, Berserkers, Warp Talons, Raptors, Maulerfiends, Defilers, Kharne, Magnus,Typhus, Nurglings
Huron not that great. Cypher is ok. Possessed are meh. Mutilators are not that good. Forge Fiends are better but still just ok
Chaos Knights > Lord of Skulls
Magnus is beast
Cultists probably best troops especially w/ Abbadon
Berserker hype is real
Hide in MEHTAL BAWKSES
Demons
Demon good stuff: Princes hiding like little girls, Skarbrand, Khorne and Slaanesh, Tzeentch heralds on discs, Epidermus
Fatey not as good as before. LoC is ok.
Blue Horror split is still good
Reece: "Nurglings are one of the best units in the game"
Automatically Appended Next Post: "Death Guard are one of the weaker factions for now" :(
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 09:49:47
2017/06/04 09:57:21
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
Not just them. Chosen, havocs, bikers etc
What made me laugh though was the blurb at the beginning of the death guard entry whrre it goes on about massrd infantry, terminators and daemon engines before promptly removing all of them. We did get to keep the defiler though.
Obbiously we've seen the DG terminators and know they're coming. What im mainly interested in is what are they replacing the other stuff with?
DG should have access to chosen, havocs, vindicators etc. I can only hope it means DG will have their own variations on these units and daemon engines
I don't even know why they bothered with Legion restrictions in the Index. Until proper codexes come out, you can just make a CHAOS keyword army anyway and mix and match whatever.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2017/06/04 10:04:34
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary (all info in OP)
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
sure, b ut numbered in the IoM means "in about a thousand years or so" the table top time has us playing in that "akward transition phase" where you have both!
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2017/06/04 10:16:13
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
sure, b ut numbered in the IoM means "in about a thousand years or so" the table top time has us playing in that "akward transition phase" where you have both!
Good to see people holding on to hope.
Anyone who has witnessed the company running its business for any length of time can see the writing on the wall though.
2017/06/04 10:33:41
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary (all info in OP)
Rippy wrote: FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Which I'm sure every player in the world will accept as gospel, right? Wouldn't it be better for GW to do this?
Rippy wrote: Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Then why even have it as a rule?
Rippy wrote: Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Vindicator sucks
Executioner plasma is bad.
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Tervigon is just ok.
Zoanthropes meh.
T-fex not very good
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Archons not that good
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Possessed are meh.
Mutilators are not that good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their job to play-test all of this? Granted, the company making the game is always well within their rights to ignore whatever they want from outside sources, but if Reese et al. were play-testing these games then why is the above list a problem?
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
sure, b ut numbered in the IoM means "in about a thousand years or so" the table top time has us playing in that "akward transition phase" where you have both!
You think that in game time periods reflect business decisions and sales tactics? 1000 in game years could equal six months product time
For all you know
2017/06/04 10:41:20
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary (all info in OP)
Rippy wrote: FLG will put out a spreadsheet for list building.
Which I'm sure every player in the world will accept as gospel, right? Wouldn't it be better for GW to do this?
Rippy wrote: Shooting pistols in combat is just ok in practice, combat is usually over before they can be used.
Then why even have it as a rule?
Rippy wrote: Deathguard one of the weaker armies for now
Crusader weakest LR variant. Godhammer probably best of three stock variants.
Servitors are terrible. Fenrisian wolves are bad.
Vindicator sucks
Executioner plasma is bad.
Riptides not so good. Don't usually take more than one.
Tervigon is just ok.
Zoanthropes meh.
T-fex not very good
Ynnari way better than straight Craftworld
Archons not that good
Tesserach Vault is too expensive
Possessed are meh.
Mutilators are not that good.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't their job to play-test all of this? Granted, the company making the game is always well within their rights to ignore whatever they want from outside sources, but if Reese et al. were play-testing these games then why is the above list a problem?
Well it is pretty obvious that Deathguard will be getting a new codex very soon. It is pretty easy to imagine that they will be getting some new characters and rules for buffing units that make units which appear to be weak now, considerably stronger.
As for the other stuff making a game with as many units as 40k has it is envitable that some units will suffer in comparison to others.
Also this is just the opinion of certain people, who were not the only playtesters.
We will need to get a few tournaments into the new edition before we really start to see what stands out, either positively or negatively.
2017/06/04 11:28:53
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary (all info in OP)
So the guys you play tested the game, in an effort to make the game balanced have just given a list of units which are really strong and those that are barely worth taking?
Well job done guys. High fives all round.
it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it.
2017/06/04 11:31:57
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Frontline Gaming Q&A Summary (all info in OP)
DG can at least have disgustingly resilient Hell Brutes which seem to be one the best options I have seen so far for wrecking faces in CC. You can debuff squads on top of that with that RNG psychic power.
Typhus seems pretty deadly as well with a large group of pox walkers and gives an aura to DG units within 7" that does mortal wounds on 4+ to enemies in CC with that unit.
Malignant Plague Casters do Mortal wounds every time they fire off a Physic power on 7+ on top of what ever the power does as well. Crazy.
DG do seem to like dishing out Mortal Wounds which makes me a happy nurgling.
The bad thing about this though like we said earlier, is that many of the buffs/debuffs only apply to DG units so terminators or anything else that can't be used in a DG army, can't benefit from them.. at the moment.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 11:56:42
