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 Galas wrote:
Yeah, many people assumes that DG is only gonna receive terminators and Mortarion but vehicles have been mentioned and teased, as new Nurgle demons.

Do bikes confer toughness or wound or save bonuses in this edition? Can Chaos Bikers be given the Mark of Nurgle? I've not had time to skim through all of the rules and am not sure if the info on bikes has been released.. but I recall MoN on bikers in .. I think 4th.. and it was nasty.

They can be given Mark of Nurgle but it basically does nothing currently. Bikes give +1T and it's reflected on the Datasheet already.

 MLaw wrote:
Just did a once over between the FW table of contents and the leaked points table and it looks like the Orks might be missing a few things.
So far..
Battlefortress
Gun Wagon
Looted Wagon

and Skullhamma.. though it's not really an official model..

Either way, I have a Battlefortress and several variations of looted wagons and/or gunwagons. They yanked that option directly away from us.. So that's 2 looted Leman Russ, my Armorcast/Epicast vehicles (basically gunwagons or looted wagons with boomguns), my looted wagon with skorcha from a 2nd ed rhino, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about. There is NOTHING to replace them.. They left in buggies, trakks, trucks, and battlewagons.. but that's it.. and the kill tank and big tracks from FW are still in.. which I have as well.. but there's no medium to heavy option to cover all of that intermediary..

I'm totally willing to bet they won't update the rules for the Ork Heavy Bomber. They never had a model for that, but dang was it fun making your own.

 MLaw wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, many people assumes that DG is only gonna receive terminators and Mortarion but vehicles have been mentioned and teased, as new Nurgle demons.

Do bikes confer toughness or wound or save bonuses in this edition? Can Chaos Bikers be given the Mark of Nurgle? I've not had time to skim through all of the rules and am not sure if the info on bikes has been released.. but I recall MoN on bikers in .. I think 4th.. and it was nasty.

I don't know whether the T6 Nurgle Bikers are still available, but in any case they would be much weaker with the new to-wound table - that unit was very strong in past editions primarily because basic S4 attacks only wounded it on a 6, which is no longer the case.

Anyone else notice on the leaked orks points summary that Gretchin are 10-30 unit size .... and the fact that characters are not in units anymore means you probably don't have to field a runtherd per 10....

Excuse me whilst I dig out my 80 2nd edition Gretchin

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Anyone else notice on the leaked orks points summary that Gretchin are 10-30 unit size .... and the fact that characters are not in units anymore means you probably don't have to field a runtherd per 10....

Excuse me whilst I dig out my 80 2nd edition Gretchin

I was trying to figure out if they are able to join mobs of regular boyz now and confer their aura onto grot squads that are screening for them... Can't wait to have the rules in hand.. want to see if the different aura type effects work while embarked too. Loading a runtherd into a vehicle.. especially one with a KFF seems like it could really stretch out effectiveness of grots but I don't know that it would actually work out that way..

 MLaw wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Anyone else notice on the leaked orks points summary that Gretchin are 10-30 unit size .... and the fact that characters are not in units anymore means you probably don't have to field a runtherd per 10....

Excuse me whilst I dig out my 80 2nd edition Gretchin

I was trying to figure out if they are able to join mobs of regular boyz now and confer their aura onto grot squads that are screening for them... Can't wait to have the rules in hand.. want to see if the different aura type effects work while embarked too. Loading a runtherd into a vehicle.. especially one with a KFF seems like it could really stretch out effectiveness of grots but I don't know that it would actually work out that way..

- Nobody can "join" units anymore, that mechanic has been removed entirely. Unless you mean 'join' as in 'stand close to', in which case your example works - as long as the grots stay within the range of the runtherd's bonus, it doesn't matter how many Orks he has to screen him.
- Aura effects are suspended while embarked. In fact nothing works in a vehicle - the rules explicitly state that embarked units just kind of go away and they can do nothing, except shoot if it's open-topped I guess.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Megaknob wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Just did a once over between the FW table of contents and the leaked points table and it looks like the Orks might be missing a few things.
So far..
Battlefortress
Gun Wagon
Looted Wagon

and Skullhamma.. though it's not really an official model..

Either way, I have a Battlefortress and several variations of looted wagons and/or gunwagons. They yanked that option directly away from us.. So that's 2 looted Leman Russ, my Armorcast/Epicast vehicles (basically gunwagons or looted wagons with boomguns), my looted wagon with skorcha from a 2nd ed rhino, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about. There is NOTHING to replace them.. They left in buggies, trakks, trucks, and battlewagons.. but that's it.. and the kill tank and big tracks from FW are still in.. which I have as well.. but there's no medium to heavy option to cover all of that intermediary..

It's quite simple really they don't want stats on "looted wagons" because people including my self were using models from other systems and gluing warhammer bits to them and calling them "looted wagons" it's purely a sales thing.
How ever that said 90pts boom guns were great in 5th providing the grots did not press that big red button, I had some hilarious accidents through it.

That's not a "sales" thing tho its a drinking the kool-aid thing. If GW doesn't sell a model and you buy GW Bits to built your own then they ARE making more money than they would otherwise (IE zero).

No idea what "drinking the kool-aid" means but I don't think you read what I wrote properly, there are people buying land raiders and converting them into ork looted wagons, there are even more buying cheaper alternatives,scratchbuilding and even using children's play toys sticking some spare bits on it and calling it a looted wagon.
The looted wagon promotes conversion and with conversion comes the before mentioned shenanigans, so cut the looted wagon out of the codex completely.
With the looted wagon now completely gone from the codex we now have a hole in our army lists, what can we do about this?
Buy more models to fill it.
And for people new to the hobby, they will never know they existed and will naturally not be bothered by the lack of looted wagons and buy other GW models .

To me it seems like a really sensible business decision and I'm sure that's how they will look at it, or can you come up with a better reason for them to cut the looted wagon out?

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Anyone else notice on the leaked orks points summary that Gretchin are 10-30 unit size .... and the fact that characters are not in units anymore means you probably don't have to field a runtherd per 10....

Excuse me whilst I dig out my 80 2nd edition Gretchin

I have 180.

I don't even play Orks.

I wasn't even alive when they were made!

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Anyone else notice on the leaked orks points summary that Gretchin are 10-30 unit size .... and the fact that characters are not in units anymore means you probably don't have to field a runtherd per 10....

Excuse me whilst I dig out my 80 2nd edition Gretchin

I have 180.

I don't even play Orks.

I wasn't even alive when they were made!

Bring the tide son watch them cry!

 MLaw wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Anyone else notice on the leaked orks points summary that Gretchin are 10-30 unit size .... and the fact that characters are not in units anymore means you probably don't have to field a runtherd per 10....

Excuse me whilst I dig out my 80 2nd edition Gretchin

I was trying to figure out if they are able to join mobs of regular boyz now and confer their aura onto grot squads that are screening for them... Can't wait to have the rules in hand.. want to see if the different aura type effects work while embarked too. Loading a runtherd into a vehicle.. especially one with a KFF seems like it could really stretch out effectiveness of grots but I don't know that it would actually work out that way..

We already know the answers to these things. For example, models inside vehicles basically don't exist for rules purposes.

KFF confers the save to the vehicle itself, right?

Not sure I'd use it to protect grots though, there are better uses.

Thanks guys, I haven't really had a chance to drill into the rules and figure that part out.

Megaknob - For shame! Apparently you haven't been an ork player all that long. The reason a lot of us have "looted wagons" isn't because of some bs looted wagon entry.. it's because we used to actually be able to loot vehicles. My looted demolisher and leman russ aren't that way because I liked Looted Wagons.. as a point of fact, I complained when they were changed AWAY from the looted Imperial counterparts. GW did the generalized looted wagon thing with kids' toys to themselves. If they had left it alone as regular looted imperial whatever in the first place those other things wouldn't have happened.. since the base vehicle was required to be a GW model anyway..
That said.. the point is.. regardless of your (apparently very un-Orky) feelings on the matter, many gamers own the very types of vehicle you're referring to. More importantly, in the days of old, the exact things you're referring to as shenanigans were actually ENCOURAGED by GW. Frankly, I find your outlook on the issue to be a bit elitist and honestly, devoid of any understanding of the actual love some people put into these models. None of my looted vehicles are not based on actual GW models and none of them were created as some sort of shenanigan... and apparently.. none of them are going to be usable.. save for my Looted Land Raider that will serve as a Battlewagon as it has. My other Battle Wagon is a converted Leman Russ that I spent a LOT of time on converting into a Brain Crusha themed Battlewagon.
As for my Battlefortress, it's actually not one of those really expensive Forgeworld ones that people can't use anymore.. It's also a conversion.. from a RT era Land Raider, Chimera, several Leman Russ components, and OOP bits/weapons/models that combined might end up being more than the original FW Battlefortress.. oh.. and the Deth Rolla is from FW..

Again.. regardless of what or why.. the fact is, this has happened and has left many of us stuck in a bad way. I do have a crap ton of Orks so I "can" field other lists in the interim but having units pulled out of rotation will never make people happy.. and pretending that we should just be content is a really bizarre and unsportsmanlike way of seeing this change IMO.


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 Oguhmek wrote:
KFF confers the save to the vehicle itself, right?

Not sure I'd use it to protect grots though, there are better uses.

I was under the understanding that any units in range would benefit.. so if the grots are screening a unit that has a KFF.. I would think both would get the save from that same KFF..

I would see the looted wagon situation as a boon; now you can use it counts-as whatever Ork vehicle you want (within reason). At the very least they can be trukks.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I would see the looted wagon situation as a boon; now you can use it counts-as whatever Ork vehicle you want (within reason). At the very least they can be trukks.

To be fair, part of the appeal of the newer Looted Wagon rules was it's position as a mid point between trukks and battlewagons. Even with how customizable it was, it did actually fill an empty niche in the Ork motorpool, to an extent.

There is an ongoing looted wagon discussion in the general forums.
Let me know if you can't find it in a pm, will be happy to point you in the right direction

 Rippy wrote:
There is an ongoing looted wagon discussion in the general forums.
Let me know if you can't find it in a pm, will be happy to point you in the right direction

I already clarified with Alpharius earlier in the thread that this is on-topic. Sorry it's not what you want us to talk about but it is part and parcel of 8th ed.

It's not that I don't want you to, it's just that there is a dedicated forum post to this topic.
Post what you like, I can only point in the right direction, I'm not a moderator or anything

 Rippy wrote:
It's not that I don't want you to, it's just that there is a dedicated forum post to this topic.
Post what you like, I can only point in the right direction, I'm not a moderator or anything

The topic is 8th ed news.. units being left out is exactly that.. as was clarified.. I am pretty sure the particular thread (sub-topic of Ork units being abandoned) had tapered off anyway but for argument's sake, when Deathguard and it's viability were being discussed you did not seem to have a problem with it.
I'm not trying to have an in-depth discussion about what the impact of those units missing might mean or anything but it's certainly news that needs to be pointed out for Ork players who are trying to stay abreast of the changes that are incoming.

 MLaw wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
It's not that I don't want you to, it's just that there is a dedicated forum post to this topic.
Post what you like, I can only point in the right direction, I'm not a moderator or anything

The topic is 8th ed news.. units being left out is exactly that.. as was clarified.. I am pretty sure the particular thread (sub-topic of Ork units being abandoned) had tapered off anyway but for argument's sake, when Deathguard and it's viability were being discussed you did not seem to have a problem with it.
I'm not trying to have an in-depth discussion about what the impact of those units missing might mean or anything but it's certainly news that needs to be pointed out for Ork players who are trying to stay abreast of the changes that are incoming.

Actually he did, he created the thread for the DG discussion so it wouldn't take up this thread.

That being said, I wonder if we will see these lost Ork units come back in their codex?

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
It's not that I don't want you to, it's just that there is a dedicated forum post to this topic.
Post what you like, I can only point in the right direction, I'm not a moderator or anything

The topic is 8th ed news.. units being left out is exactly that.. as was clarified.. I am pretty sure the particular thread (sub-topic of Ork units being abandoned) had tapered off anyway but for argument's sake, when Deathguard and it's viability were being discussed you did not seem to have a problem with it.
I'm not trying to have an in-depth discussion about what the impact of those units missing might mean or anything but it's certainly news that needs to be pointed out for Ork players who are trying to stay abreast of the changes that are incoming.

Actually he did, he created the thread for the DG discussion so it wouldn't take up this thread.

That being said, I wonder if we will see these lost Ork units come back in their codex?

That's the theory I keep hearing but I have no idea what the timeline for codex releases might look like. I am honestly hoping for a full return of the various Klans. Losing the Deathskull distinction was one of the things that drove me away from 40k.. one of many I guess..
I have been wondering that for all armies though.. like.. are Craftworld Eldar going to be a thing or will it be just the Eldar Codex or a separate thing.. Space Marines and Chaos seem to be the only army that has largely been immune to the great watering down... but somehow those players are still not content..

Anyone else hear 'expansions' in the latest vox?


Oooooohhhhh rumours

 fwlr wrote:
Anyone else hear 'expansions' in the latest vox?


Oooooohhhhh rumours

Yes I noticed that, very exciting prospects for near releases of Primaris and Death Guard.

Unless they mean expansions like on Dark Vengeance where we have to wait for ages for another boxed set

I'm hoping the expansion for Death guard includes the Termies, one or more of the vehicles, and maybe a squad of plague marines?

I'm also hoping that we see these on pre-order on the 17th or a week after

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm hoping the expansion for Death guard includes the Termies, one or more of the vehicles, and maybe a squad of plague marines?

I'm also hoping that we see these on pre-order on the 17th or a week after

Have they really been that fast with releases? I've not really been paying attention until 8th started being discussed.. That seems really soon after such a major release though.

 MLaw wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm hoping the expansion for Death guard includes the Termies, one or more of the vehicles, and maybe a squad of plague marines?

I'm also hoping that we see these on pre-order on the 17th or a week after

Have they really been that fast with releases? I've not really been paying attention until 8th started being discussed.. That seems really soon after such a major release though.

I have absolutely no idea, but from what i've seen with other releases (Kharadron, Tzeentch, GSC(?)), they all seem to be relatively close

 MLaw wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I'm hoping the expansion for Death guard includes the Termies, one or more of the vehicles, and maybe a squad of plague marines?

I'm also hoping that we see these on pre-order on the 17th or a week after

Have they really been that fast with releases? I've not really been paying attention until 8th started being discussed.. That seems really soon after such a major release though.

It is all speculation right now, but with the Dark Imperium Starters, I can see Codex: Space Marines, and Codex: Chaos Space Marines coming out Quick, though My guess (and it is pure speculation) would be both codexes in July rather then in June with the rest. I see Primaris Marines finishing out the month of June.

Yay expansions!

I said my piece a few times now about looted wagons on the fb page and have had likes n support today I asked if they could pass the communitys wishes about wanting looted wagons back and got a reply saying they would be passing the message along.
So I'd ask everyone to message on fb around 10am and 12am (U.K. Time) so it's more likely to be seen by the staff about looted wagons. Fingers crossed.
Also I don't see how the post I made about a new army builder on the community site for 8th is off topic. It new info and it's for 40k 8th isnt that what this thread is about. Also to the people on about paying for apps? Check the community site the AoS wars scroll builder is free and quite good so I assume the 40k one will be the same and that will be excellent if so.

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
I said my piece a few times now about looted wagons on the fb page and have had likes n support today I asked if they could pass the communitys wishes about wanting looted wagons back and got a reply saying they would be passing the message along.
So I'd ask everyone to message on fb around 10am and 12am (U.K. Time) so it's more likely to be seen by the staff about looted wagons. Fingers crossed.
Also I don't see how the post I made about a new army builder on the community site for 8th is off topic. It new info and it's for 40k 8th isnt that what this thread is about. Also to the people on about paying for apps? Check the community site the AoS wars scroll builder is free and quite good so I assume the 40k one will be the same and that will be excellent if so.

Will do! Seeing them remove that unit really caught me off guard.