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 blackmage wrote:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU

wonder how the uploader expect we can read it


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 MrVulcanator wrote:
Any idea if Plaguebearers will have more than one attack? After playing them in AoS, they're incredibly underwhelming.

plaguebeares have only 1 attack, if they are in 20+ enemy gets a -1 to hit them, plaueridden have of course 2 attacks, they ignore wounds on 5+

Chaos Spawn look a lot better than Flesh Hounds now that Flesh Hounds cost 4 points more, deal less damage, have less wounds, and are only slightly faster. I can see if you wanted some psy protection for your Khorne army taking them since they can deny the witch, but you could also just take Karanak and hide him behind the Chaos Spawn, and he's denying two powers a turn while making one of the enemy character's sweat (he's also no slouch in combat).

Anyone have any thoughts on Mutilators? They're competing with Terminators for me. They end up being cheaper than Termies with Combi-PLas + weapons, but it seems like their potential for damage is similar in melee combat. I've got some Red Butchers I'm thinking of using as Mutilators. My main concern is they can't take an Icon of Wrath for re-rolling charges.

Also, wtf my characters can't reroll charges with their unit now. Also wtf I have to position my characters to the side of the unit in order to charge in with them. Kharn is very unhappy about this.

Yes, unless you want to eat overwatch and charge characters first, it's going to be pretty weird for them to make the charge as you need to be within 1 inch of an enemy. Heroic intervention only works when you are the one being charged so you can't benefit from the increased range. You kind of have to leave a hole for your character to charge into. Only the first guy needs to make into contact, the rest could technically move back to your deployment zone as long as you are in coherency lol. So it's possible for sure, just a little awkward.

 Roknar wrote:
Yes, unless you want to eat overwatch and charge characters first, it's going to be pretty weird for them to make the charge as you need to be within 1 inch of an enemy. Heroic intervention only works when you are the one being charged so you can't benefit from the increased range. You kind of have to leave a hole for your character to charge into. Only the first guy needs to make into contact, the rest could technically move back to your deployment zone as long as you are in coherency lol. So it's possible for sure, just a little awkward.

HHHMMMM reading the charge rules, you are in fact correct, however there is no rule saying they have to stay in coherency (you never had to when in close combat or charging in 7th, seems to be the same rules here). So it is actually not super difficult to leave a hole for your champ while making sure everyone who can, can fight due to the 3 inch "pile in" before you swing. You don't have to move all models the full distance. SO charging is still pretty flexible.

The coherency thing wouldn't make much sense with charging multiple units. Oh, it also looks like there is no downside to charging multiple units (other than more overwatch) or even charging through terrain (other than increasing the charge distance), which makes charging even better. I'm starting to get really excited about large units of Berzerkers (their price gives me the giggles), Flesh Hounds (if I can stomach the price), and Bloodletters (again a price increase QQ). Hell, Mutilators are starting to look tasty.

I wish we knew what Blight Launchers are supposed to look like by now! We have seen that ugly looking plasma thing, and whatever the smiling terminator is carrying in some leaks. With its 24 inch range it should be bolter/plasma sized.

Im about to add plasma guns to Champions, now but the Blight Launcher might be more useful as a special with that reroll to wound and d3 damage.

Whats the opinion?

I was curious just how what a 9 inch no deepstrike zone looks like.


Assuming standard deployment zones, it's going to be nigh impossible to get a T1 deepstrike into your opponents deployment zone.
1 inch is the smallest base we have in 40k right? That means that two unit of 10 cultists can cover almost all the deployment zone on their own.
You cover 10 inches in base size alone and then another 18 inch in coherence gaps, leaving a 16 inch gap between the two which isn't enough to deepstrike in between. And that's when you are touching the board edge.
Anything deploying behind them that is more than 1 inch away covers all the way back to the board edge once you add in that units base size. 2 inch for units and 1 inch gap means there is only 9 inch left to your board edge.

Not saying this is a realistic scenario for deploying, but don't expect your terminotrs/warp talons/whatever to just deepstrike at will and make their charge. The charge distance will be the least problem.
You won't be able to make room T1 either due deepstriking before you get a chance to shoot.
Not all armies will be heavy on model count of course and you might want some models on the front for the extra move yourself, but it's something to consider when building your army.

So any idea which Bloodthirster is the best? They are all 340pts so that's quite a chunk of change.

I can't help feeling the Wraththirster is the most versatile as it can shoot in combat, has a ranged weapon and still hits at S10.

Loopstah wrote:
So any idea which Bloodthirster is the best? They are all 340pts so that's quite a chunk of change.

I can't help feeling the Wraththirster is the most versatile as it can shoot in combat, has a ranged weapon and still hits at S10.

Depends on what your eating.


On a related point, the Lord of Skulls is still bad and overcosted.

Well for starters, Chosen prices are downright insane now. Only 3 points more for an extra attack, +1 leadership, and way more special weapons type options. The primary reason I could see for taking CSM's would be large squad sizes, but beyond that, there's not much. You'd need to use the Elite-centric force chart obviously, but that will be very doable given the number of detachments these days.

Also entertaining: Warpsmiths. A little pricey, but a couple of them in vics could be very useful to an armord force. Healing D3 wounds, or putting out a mortal wound on a 2+ is substantially better than what they used to be.

I also feel like a single sorcerer, or maybe two will still be useful, it's just not gonna be as overpowering as it once was. I'm definitely gonna throw a jump pack on one and see how he fairs. To be honest he may be a solid addition to a turn one raptor or Warp Talon assault.

The sorcerer plus Icons on raptors can also lead to some fairly brutal stuff. Not sure if Khorne or Slaanesh is the better Icon for raptors. Re-rolling the charge helps ensure more successful deepstrikes, but extra attacks on a to hit roll of five or six is pretty sexy too.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
So any idea which Bloodthirster is the best? They are all 340pts so that's quite a chunk of change.

I can't help feeling the Wraththirster is the most versatile as it can shoot in combat, has a ranged weapon and still hits at S10.

Depends on what your eating.


On a related point, the Lord of Skulls is still bad and overcosted.

It's the only thing that gets better in combat the more it is wounded. At 28 wounds, it has to lose 14 wounds before it slows down from 10' to 7" movement. Swap for Skullhurler and Ichor cannon and you get it down to 621 points. The Great Cleaver at the lowest damage threshold is 8 str10 -4ap 6dmg attacks for a potential of 48 points of damage. At full health your attacks are Str20. That's just the cleaver, as you can still fire all your weapons at anything with the Titanic rules. So, with the Cheapest loadout of Skull Hurler and Ichor Cannon potentially another 12-36 points of damage.

I don't think any other single model can potentially put out 60-84 points of damage. I'm looking forward to trying it in a 2000pt. game.

Right, well here's some synergy: get Nurgle Raptors with Icon to charge a bunch of units that've taken casualties or are engaged with strong units, and have some Furies nearby - assuming you kill enough to push them over, that'll add 2.5 to enemy casualties from Morale. Furies themselves look like a passable nuisance / target saturation unit.

Has anyone pointed out havocs are worse devastators that cost the same price? I'd honestly forgotten that was the norm.

But hey, helbrutes now work better. Your hellbrute won't suddenly refuse to fire the expensive guns you bought him as he charges into combat, nor will one without guns refuse to move, futilely trying to fire weapons that don't exist. Might grab one now, always looked like a fun model just wasn't big on more random.

SilverAlien wrote:
But hey, helbrutes now work better. Your hellbrute won't suddenly refuse to fire the expensive guns you bought him as he charges into combat, nor will one without guns refuse to move, futilely trying to fire weapons that don't exist. Might grab one now, always looked like a fun model just wasn't big on more random.

Helbrutes are now more reliable than Maulerfiends to me. No degrading stats, same save, a potential for more attacks depending on loadout, option for ranged weapon. For almost the same cost or cheaper it seems to have it all.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Except it is? That's an average of less than 1 HP removed with a 42% chance to destroy in Melta range for just AV11.

You're also the only person ever defending Small Blasts outside Traditio. Plasma Cannons are not a good weapon.

I don't count "less than half" as "anomalous". That would mean men are anomalous compared to women. Regardless, it's indisputable that twin linked meltas are better than single MultiMeltas at 6" or less.

Plasma Cannons didn't have to be "good" for Obliterators to use them, as Plasma Cannons are situational, and Obliterators could choose their weapon depending on the situation. For example, post Deep Strike, where a small blast can hit 7 models, a single Hit out of 3 shots outweighs the entire output potential of three Twin Linked Plasma guns at short range. The Plasma Guns max out at 6 hits, while three Heavy Plasma Guns max out at 21. I got 14, so more than twice the potential of mere Plasma Guns.

Either way, 7th is done now. But I look forward to Obliterators Teleporting in and murdering things at close range during 8th.

Possessed and Chosen with power weapons are both really solid CC options now. As far as I can tell it's possible for Possessed to be affected by the Daemon psychic powers since they have the Daemon and <Mark> keywords. With an Icon of Slaanesh and a Herald nearby to cast Hysterical Frenzy they'll rip units to shreds in a single turn.

I haven't seen the 8th ed. book stuff yet, but I have 2 helbrutes with autocannons, 1 I can arm pretty much anyway I want if I ever make my mind, rhinos, a land raider, 2 maulerfiends, a helturkey, a winged daemon prince, a stormfiend/soon to be daemon prince, biker sorcerer, foot sorcerer, lots of bikers, female warpsmith and dark apostle on the cutting table, lord in termie armor, lots of termies, lots of ccw & bp marines...and autogun cultists...so...hopefully I'm alright for this edition.

I would say mutilators are much better this edition as well. Their movement still hurts though.

Also entertaining: Warpsmiths. A little pricey, but a couple of them in vics could be very useful to an armord force. Healing D3 wounds, or putting out a mortal wound on a 2+ is substantially better than what they used to be.

Warpsmiths can also take a combiweapon, and because the rules for shooting are "shoot any weapon/s, or any pistol/s", the smith becomes a one man special weapon team (mini obliterator?). My stompy robot army is so happy to finally have proper warpsmiths looking after them.

Now if only we had all those formations that required warpsmiths...GW givith to chaos, GW taketh away.

 cinnabar wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
How are people thinking about Raptors this edition? I've modeled one unit with flamers, but the plasma gun might be e worthy now. Also Warp Talons! From their strange wording they seem to get an attack for each Claw rather than the pair. FAQ already?

I think Warp Talons are unbelievable. For only 2 points more than a standard CSM, you get a jump pack, lighting claws, deep strike (I forgot the new name), AND you can't be overwatched on the turn you come in on via deep strike. Making a 9 inch charge is risky so you've got to figure out how to get a re-roll on charge distances (perhaps you can deep strike next to a "character" who confers charge re-rols or use one of your stratagems).

A single Warp Talon costs 28 points with Lightning Claws. So you don't get them for just 2 points more than regular CSM.

Those Warpsmith taxes were the worst part of that book. I'm very glad they are gone.

Chaos Imperial Armour contents hints are up.

- The Daemon Bound section includes 6 datasheets for using your daemon engine miniatures;
- The Hellforged section includes 18 datasheets for using your tank, artillery and drop pod miniatures;
- The Eyrine Cults section includes 7 datasheets for using your flyer miniatures;
- The Lords of Ruin section includes 5 datasheets for using your Chaos Lord miniatures;
- The Children of the Warp section includes 12 datasheets for using your daemon miniatures;
- 7 datasheets for using your Traitor Questoris miniatures;
- 3 datasheets for using your Chaos Titans miniatures.



7 chaos knight... rubs hands together..

Guesses on what is what?


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Oh my Days. renegades and heretics are in the imperial guard book. #facepalm

14 datasheets for using your Renegades & Heretics miniatures;

saint_red wrote:
Possessed and Chosen with power weapons are both really solid CC options now. As far as I can tell it's possible for Possessed to be affected by the Daemon psychic powers since they have the Daemon and <Mark> keywords. With an Icon of Slaanesh and a Herald nearby to cast Hysterical Frenzy they'll rip units to shreds in a single turn.

Hmm, in my experience, the best thing about Possessed was Fleet, and a S6 4A Khornate charge. Fantastic reach, able to be joined by a Juggerlord and extend their re-rolled charge distance... now, they don't get the Icon I made (from an OOP Dreadfleet mini), and my WBs don't get to fill Troops slots with them.

Daemon synergy is very WB-ish, though, so I'll be cautiously optimistic on finding a solid niche for them distinct from melee specialist Chosen - whose access to Power Fists and Icons and Pistols makes them look a better use of vehicle capacity. Maybe the extra inch of movement will pay off.

7 Knight datasheets...
Given that we know we're getting Helforged Leviathans, maybe FW will consider giving us access to Cerastus and Mechanicum Knights as well?

Chaos Knight
Cerastus Acheron
Cerastus Castigator
Cerastus Lancer
Cerastus Atrapos
Questoris Styrix
Questoris Magera

?

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I haven't seen the 8th ed. book stuff yet, but I have 2 helbrutes with autocannons, 1 I can arm pretty much anyway I want if I ever make my mind, rhinos, a land raider, 2 maulerfiends, a helturkey, a winged daemon prince, a stormfiend/soon to be daemon prince, biker sorcerer, foot sorcerer, lots of bikers, female warpsmith and dark apostle on the cutting table, lord in termie armor, lots of termies, lots of ccw & bp marines...and autogun cultists...so...hopefully I'm alright for this edition.

Have you got an army blog? This sounds like an interesting collection

Forge World List:

Oh hell yes.

Woo! I can use my Chaos Cerastus!
and looks like we get some Dark Mechanicus in there with the Hellwright and the Mechanicus knights

Greater Blight Drone is confusing, as there's no Lesser Blight Drone, but the same could be said for Greater Brass Scorpion

Lesser brass scorpion was the original scratchbuild rules in apocalypse first edition.

Less blight drone is likely the new bloat drone.

For what it's worth.
Last night to test out the rules I ran 4 Nurgle princes, some soul grinders, and a few nurgle heralds vs Necrons.
The nurgle princes were complete money. They did the vast majority of the heavy lifting of my army. By the end of turn 5, the cron' player was tabled.

I'm going to run another game today and I'm going to take Be'Lakor and 9 princes in a 2k game vs. marines. I'll let you know how it goes.