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I seem to remember one of the designers say in one of the Q&As that faction bonuses were going to be strategiums.

Loopstah wrote:
Run two detachments? One DG for any bonus they might put in with the codex and another with Nurgly stuff that can't take the DG keyword?

Problem with that is the risk of things like getting Scarab Occult'd.

Consider this...

Thousand Sons players of old will have had Terminators with different layouts - even if you went with the 3.5 unable to upgrade approach you would have had Terminators with Axes and Mauls. Your sorcerer could have had a sword, axe, maul, staff....

Then come Scarab Occult - suddenly all your Terminators are locked into swords. What makes this worse and even more laughable is the fact that there have only been TWO Chaos Terminator Power Sword arms since Rogue Trader - the old RT Terminator and the metal Chaos Terminator Lord - even then the Chaos Lord's arm is on the wrong side.

So how could these Thousand Sons players have been expected to have appropriately armed Terminators? Hell, if you wanted to be historically accurate - the sword design is based on a khopesh, which functioned more as an axe than a sword - so they could have called them power axes (far more likely since power axes are far more commonly available in terms of models) but they didn't.

You might say 'Well just run them as Tzeentch aligned Terminators lololololol' - you're missing the point. It's a snub to people who may have had Thousand Sons armies since 2nd ed or early 3rd ed with the Index Astartes article. If your army served faithfully as was for over a decade it's a bit of a piss take to suddenly have half of it be considered no longer viable in favour of the new shinies.

I have multiple Death Guard Terminator squads - FW conversion kits and all. Most came from 5th edition - when I was working, had a decent bonus pay and decided to treat myself by buying the Chaos army deal with the 5th ed release (at midnight and all) and then to order all the relevant FW upgrade components - down to extra armour kits for rhinos, FW doors and the like. These terminators have different layouts - mixes of combi-weapons depending on squads - one's a pseudo command squad that has Terminators that mirror Imperial Command squad characters - so I have a power maul counts -as Icon Bearer, a chainfist Apothecary, a power axe Champion, a power fist Techmarine mirror. I have a squad that's a nod to the Imperial Standard - Combi-bolters and Power Fists, champion with an Axe instead of a sword (again - Chaos Terminators have zero power sword arms around outside of two very OOP miniatures). my most recent squad had some lightning claws and was built around the Tartaros Terminators from BoP.

Hell, even when heavy weapon Havocs became a thing - I thought carefully about what to add - I went with Autocannons and Heavy Bolters - because logically those weapons are easier to maintain...and there's so many random pieces of art of a Heavy Bolter toting plague marine it was finally time to make THAT.

So yeah, telling me to run two detachments....not impressed. I've been a Death Guard player since 3rd ed - the first in my local area and always the most devout. So to suddenly have half my army no longer be considered Death Guard - it's a bit of a rub. It's an odd decision. And it's a serious concern.

I don't fancy my Terminators being Scarab Occult'd.

I also don't approve of the opinion of 'HURR HURR SUB FACTIONS SHOULD HAVE LESS UNITS'.

Tell that to BA, DA and SW. Sure, they lack some of the newer SM units. But they more than make up for it with their own units.

Right now Keywords mean very little....

But they may have a broader impact. And the fact that our stopgap list removed units is a giant red flag to any Death Guard player.

 mrhappyface wrote:
In case anyone is interested I just did some MathHammer to pass the time and a 20 man unit of Khorne Bezerkers w/ Chainaxe and Chainsword + Khorne Lord w/Chainfist and being buffed by a Sorceror (+1 to hit) will destroy an IK on the charge. Just if anyone was interested.

You know, I've been looking at my Calth Praetor, thinking he'd look great in WE white & blue. Jumping out of a Kharybdis with a horde. Thanks!

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
Run two detachments? One DG for any bonus they might put in with the codex and another with Nurgly stuff that can't take the DG keyword?

Problem with that is the risk of things like getting Scarab Occult'd.

Consider this...

Thousand Sons players of old will have had Terminators with different layouts - even if you went with the 3.5 unable to upgrade approach you would have had Terminators with Axes and Mauls. Your sorcerer could have had a sword, axe, maul, staff....

Then come Scarab Occult - suddenly all your Terminators are locked into swords. What makes this worse and even more laughable is the fact that there have only been TWO Chaos Terminator Power Sword arms since Rogue Trader - the old RT Terminator and the metal Chaos Terminator Lord - even then the Chaos Lord's arm is on the wrong side.

So how could these Thousand Sons players have been expected to have appropriately armed Terminators? Hell, if you wanted to be historically accurate - the sword design is based on a khopesh, which functioned more as an axe than a sword - so they could have called them power axes (far more likely since power axes are far more commonly available in terms of models) but they didn't.

You might say 'Well just run them as Tzeentch aligned Terminators lololololol' - you're missing the point. It's a snub to people who may have had Thousand Sons armies since 2nd ed or early 3rd ed with the Index Astartes article. If your army served faithfully as was for over a decade it's a bit of a piss take to suddenly have half of it be considered no longer viable in favour of the new shinies.

I have multiple Death Guard Terminator squads - FW conversion kits and all. Most came from 5th edition - when I was working, had a decent bonus pay and decided to treat myself by buying the Chaos army deal with the 5th ed release (at midnight and all) and then to order all the relevant FW upgrade components - down to extra armour kits for rhinos, FW doors and the like. These terminators have different layouts - mixes of combi-weapons depending on squads - one's a pseudo command squad that has Terminators that mirror Imperial Command squad characters - so I have a power maul counts -as Icon Bearer, a chainfist Apothecary, a power axe Champion, a power fist Techmarine mirror. I have a squad that's a nod to the Imperial Standard - Combi-bolters and Power Fists, champion with an Axe instead of a sword (again - Chaos Terminators have zero power sword arms around outside of two very OOP miniatures). my most recent squad had some lightning claws and was built around the Tartaros Terminators from BoP.

Hell, even when heavy weapon Havocs became a thing - I thought carefully about what to add - I went with Autocannons and Heavy Bolters - because logically those weapons are easier to maintain...and there's so many random pieces of art of a Heavy Bolter toting plague marine it was finally time to make THAT.

So yeah, telling me to run two detachments....not impressed. I've been a Death Guard player since 3rd ed - the first in my local area and always the most devout. So to suddenly have half my army no longer be considered Death Guard - it's a bit of a rub. It's an odd decision. And it's a serious concern.

I don't fancy my Terminators being Scarab Occult'd.

I also don't approve of the opinion of 'HURR HURR SUB FACTIONS SHOULD HAVE LESS UNITS'.

Tell that to BA, DA and SW. Sure, they lack some of the newer SM units. But they more than make up for it with their own units.

Right now Keywords mean very little....

But they may have a broader impact. And the fact that our stopgap list removed units is a giant red flag to any Death Guard player.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you also need to understand that there is virtually no reason to add more units to the DG allowed list at the current time. It doesn't DO anything. What is the point of a squad of terminators taking the DG keyword? Transport and buffs, that's it. You can get both running them as a separate detachment right now. You can even paint them in DG colors if you like. I do think the current rules are insanely unintuitive and right now the keyword system exists only to confuse and aggravate players. Hopefully they turn it into something good later.

I'm currently working on a large World Eaters force with stuff like Raptors, Warp Talons, Terminators etc. I fully expect them all to be outlawed when the World Eater Codex drops, I'll just run them as Blood Eaters of something in a separate detachment if the WE unique units aren't good replacements. I wont suddenly have to throw them all away.

Mugaaz wrote:
I understand what you are saying, but I think you also need to understand that there is virtually no reason to add more units to the DG allowed list at the current time. It doesn't DO anything. What is the point of a squad of terminators taking the DG keyword? Transport and buffs, that's it. You can get both running them as a separate detachment right now. You can even paint them in DG colors if you like. I do think the current rules are insanely unintuitive and right now the keyword system exists only to confuse and aggravate players. Hopefully they turn it into something good later.

So, in your mind, making an army function properly without scrabbling to make things work isn't a good reason? Running mixed keywords does come with disadvantages in the form of lost synergy. It isn't a huge thing, it's just one of those minor niggles that other armies don't have to deal with. I fail to see why we should.

I'm also unclear on why DG shouldn't have access. Again, loyalists get access to unique and standard variations. Dark angels have unique terminators, but they also gain access to the standard options. It's getting real old watching chaos be screwed in ways no other faction has to put up with.

Meh, I'm working towards a black legion army with elements of DG, WE, TS and EC. It was always going to get messy.

I'm just gonna run a <chaos> army and take everything I don't particularly care if the legion keywords of each unit match up, in fact that fits the BL perfectly. If I'm that desperate for character buffs, then I'll grab a e.g. <chaos> <DG> lord to buff my plague marines/poxwalkers while also fielding a <chaos> <WE> lord to buff my berzerkers. Simple.

Also, I'm pretty sure that plague marines can be a troops in any chaos army, as long as you specify their legion to be <death guard>. No where does it say that the rest of your army has to match (although you will have to work a bit harder to get aura buffs for them), the only restriction lies with the plague marines.

Mugaaz wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but I think you also need to understand that there is virtually no reason to add more units to the DG allowed list at the current time. It doesn't DO anything.

Except for allow interaction between Loc/Typhus/DG Lord/Prince buff auras and certain units. Furthermore, you don't understand at all - the point is it's a red flag for existing DG players when a sizeable core chunk of our army - Chosen, Terminators and Havocs - are suddenly removed from the list. A list that is supposedly a stopgap list - for real, if it's a stop gap list...why not leave them in as stop-gap units? Their omission is a giant red flag. And it's pretty sloppy to omit them based on something we might possibly get in the future in a book - which is now looking like August at the earliest - why leave us missing chunks for 2 and a half months?

What is the point of a squad of terminators taking the DG keyword? Transport and buffs, that's it.

So you're saying it's perfectly fair for a DG player to have to take an ADDITIONAL HQ or two in order to buff units and create those bubble layers whereas everyone else doesn't even have that sort of tax in the slightest? What?

You can get both running them as a separate detachment right now. You can even paint them in DG colors if you like.

Bold Emphasis mine. And in response to this - you.

You seem to have missed the point - 'you can even paint them in DG colours if you like.' - They've been in DG colours for close to the past decade. Don't get all high and mighty and condescending to us. These are parts of our EXISTING army that have been stripped away. Telling us we can paint them in those colours implies that we've never had these units before. Way to miss the point.

We have had these units. We've pretty much always had these units and their disappearance from our Faction list is a giant red flag. These weren't units that became a thing due to the 6 months of Traitor Legions. These were units that have been present in Death Guard lists since early on in 3rd edition.

Imagine being a SM player - playing Imperial Fists. And suddenly, new Index comes out and you're not allowed to take Terminator squads at all. But you have Terminator armoured characters. 'Oh, it's ok, you're getting new Fist Terminators in 3 months time.'

Hang on a minute. TH/SS Terminators have almost always been a part of your army since 4th edition when they introduced Lysander.

And imagine the new FISTINATORS come out...with the following layout - Thunder Hammer and Stormbolter. Fixed. No options to swap or upgrade. You can add an Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer or Cyclone Missile Launcher.

You'd be saying - wtf. How do you expect us to have ever had terminators armed that way? What about my X squads of Terminators that have served my army well for 10+ years? What do I do with them now?


Now you know what it feels like to be Scarab Occult'd. Now you know why Death Guard players are seeing red flags when our Terminators disappear.

Keywords may seem minor at the moment, but it form another layer of interaction that we're being denied due to a strange decision in writing a faction list - seemingly based on whatever they had painted at the time.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Mugaaz wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but I think you also need to understand that there is virtually no reason to add more units to the DG allowed list at the current time. It doesn't DO anything.

Except for allow interaction between Loc/Typhus/DG Lord/Prince buff auras and certain units. Furthermore, you don't understand at all - the point is it's a red flag for existing DG players when a sizeable core chunk of our army - Chosen, Terminators and Havocs - are suddenly removed from the list. A list that is supposedly a stopgap list - for real, if it's a stop gap list...why not leave them in as stop-gap units? Their omission is a giant red flag. And it's pretty sloppy to omit them based on something we might possibly get in the future in a book - which is now looking like August at the earliest - why leave us missing chunks for 2 and a half months?

Remind me again, what rule stops you from taking Chosen / Terminators / Havocs?

I am aware you cannot take the Death Guard keyword on those units, but (unless I am mistaken) nothing stops someone from including them in a list. They just won't be able to benefit from DG auras.

The aura benefit to Typhus is a 4+ chance at delivering a mortal wound each turn. The aura benefit of an unaffiliated Chaos Lord is the ability to reroll 1s. Chosen and Havocs typically carry high AP / high damage weapons, and the CLs aura makes them almost autohit.

50% chance at 1 mortal wound vs reducing chance to miss to 2.8%. Sounds like GW did you a favor.

In case you are wondering, you can take a CL as part of a DG army without forcing him to take the keyword.

I think the argument why Death Guard should have Terminators / Chosen / Havocs specified in their list (and therefore access to their Legion keyword) is because the background supports this.

When Plague Marines and even Poxwalkers can benefit from the Nurgle's Rot buff, but not Death Guard Terminators / Chosen - it raises an issue of inconsistency between the background lore and the rules set.

If GW for some reason just didn't these units to be buffed by any of the various DEATH GUARD abilities, then they should of tweaked them to be more specific in their wording.

Having the current heavy-handed approach that restricts creativity through this lack of keyword synergy just doesn't make sense.

I fully expect to see some new Death Guard-specific Terminators and perhaps other unique units down the line anyway, but telling existing players with existing invalided Death Guard models to just get over it isn't the answer here.

 mrhappyface wrote:
In case anyone is interested I just did some MathHammer to pass the time and a 20 man unit of Khorne Bezerkers w/ Chainaxe and Chainsword + Khorne Lord w/Chainfist and being buffed by a Sorceror (+1 to hit) will destroy an IK on the charge. Just if anyone was interested.

This is assuming what exactly? That they get both their fight phase attacks before the titan squashes them? Because as soon as either the berzerkers or the lord goes the knight army SHOULD Counter-Assault and obliterate the unit.

Various unit rules - notably DG Relentless Havocs, FNP Terminators & Oblits - strongly incentivised purchases. Turning around and saying that these units don't exist in these Legions is terrible community relations, and invent-similar-warband-names is a clumsy workaround that makes a complete mockery of 8ed being an exercise in simplification. I mean yeah, drop some RT fluff, but this is saying 'buy five of these for a win button/characterful force' and then WITHIN A YEAR saying 'lol, you can't use them as we sold them to you'. GW have dropped the ball on this, big time.

@techsoldaten - how are you getting a 97.2% hit rate for Lord-buffed Chosen & Havocs? 16.7% chance of rolling a 2, + 5.6% chance of rolling a 1 and the reroll being 3+; I make their accuracy a little shy of 80%? 2.8% seems to be the Lord-buffed Plasma shot suicide rate?

 techsoldaten wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Mugaaz wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but I think you also need to understand that there is virtually no reason to add more units to the DG allowed list at the current time. It doesn't DO anything.

Except for allow interaction between Loc/Typhus/DG Lord/Prince buff auras and certain units. Furthermore, you don't understand at all - the point is it's a red flag for existing DG players when a sizeable core chunk of our army - Chosen, Terminators and Havocs - are suddenly removed from the list. A list that is supposedly a stopgap list - for real, if it's a stop gap list...why not leave them in as stop-gap units? Their omission is a giant red flag. And it's pretty sloppy to omit them based on something we might possibly get in the future in a book - which is now looking like August at the earliest - why leave us missing chunks for 2 and a half months?

Remind me again, what rule stops you from taking Chosen / Terminators / Havocs?

I am aware you cannot take the Death Guard keyword on those units, but (unless I am mistaken) nothing stops someone from including them in a list. They just won't be able to benefit from DG auras.

The aura benefit to Typhus is a 4+ chance at delivering a mortal wound each turn. The aura benefit of an unaffiliated Chaos Lord is the ability to reroll 1s. Chosen and Havocs typically carry high AP / high damage weapons, and the CLs aura makes them almost autohit.

50% chance at 1 mortal wound vs reducing chance to miss to 2.8%. Sounds like GW did you a favor.

In case you are wondering, you can take a CL as part of a DG army without forcing him to take the keyword.

And you appear to have missed the point as well.

Once again - ok, we take the Chosen, Terminators and Havocs. And give them the keyword The Point.

And we pick a Lord - Note the Lord ONLY benefits those with the same Legion Keyword - which means that the Poxwalkers, Plague Marines and other Death Guard elements are not benefitting at all from the Lord's aura. Just as those units aren't benefitting from Typhus' aura, the blightcaster's aura or the plaguecaster's spell in Contagion. Now tell me exactly why I should be taking 3 characters to create a synergy within the force when other armies pretty much do it with 1?

It was addressed earlier - it forces an artificial, second mandatory level of tax for us to benefit from what pretty much any other Legion can do by default. Why you think this is remotely acceptable is a mystery to me. Perhaps you like GW bending Chaos players over for 5 consecutive editions?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Mugaaz wrote:

I understand what you are saying, but I think you also need to understand that there is virtually no reason to add more units to the DG allowed list at the current time. It doesn't DO anything.

Except for allow interaction between Loc/Typhus/DG Lord/Prince buff auras and certain units. Furthermore, you don't understand at all - the point is it's a red flag for existing DG players when a sizeable core chunk of our army - Chosen, Terminators and Havocs - are suddenly removed from the list. A list that is supposedly a stopgap list - for real, if it's a stop gap list...why not leave them in as stop-gap units? Their omission is a giant red flag. And it's pretty sloppy to omit them based on something we might possibly get in the future in a book - which is now looking like August at the earliest - why leave us missing chunks for 2 and a half months?

Remind me again, what rule stops you from taking Chosen / Terminators / Havocs?

I am aware you cannot take the Death Guard keyword on those units, but (unless I am mistaken) nothing stops someone from including them in a list. They just won't be able to benefit from DG auras.

The aura benefit to Typhus is a 4+ chance at delivering a mortal wound each turn. The aura benefit of an unaffiliated Chaos Lord is the ability to reroll 1s. Chosen and Havocs typically carry high AP / high damage weapons, and the CLs aura makes them almost autohit.

50% chance at 1 mortal wound vs reducing chance to miss to 2.8%. Sounds like GW did you a favor.

In case you are wondering, you can take a CL as part of a DG army without forcing him to take the keyword.

And you appear to have missed the point as well.

Once again - ok, we take the Chosen, Terminators and Havocs. And give them the keyword The Point.

And we pick a Lord - Note the Lord ONLY benefits those with the same Legion Keyword - which means that the Poxwalkers, Plague Marines and other Death Guard elements are not benefitting at all from the Lord's aura. Just as those units aren't benefitting from Typhus' aura, the blightcaster's aura or the plaguecaster's spell in Contagion. Now tell me exactly why I should be taking 3 characters to create a synergy within the force when other armies pretty much do it with 1?

It was addressed earlier - it forces an artificial, second mandatory level of tax for us to benefit from what pretty much any other Legion can do by default. Why you think this is remotely acceptable is a mystery to me. Perhaps you like GW bending Chaos players over for 5 consecutive editions?

I agree the system is really stupid, but I don't agree that there is a huge impact in terms of army power. I think there is a lot of potential in the keyword system, but right now it is very confusing. For most players there is no worthwhile benefits in terms of fluff or gameplay as a result of the keywords. I fully agree that keywords are currently an awful annoying mess. Maybe they will make it cool and rewarding with future releases and codex. In the meantime, I would ignore it, just run a Heretic force, and call it Death Guard.

I really hope they release an errata soon otherwise FW players will once again be screwed over like with traitor legions how none of the stuff their could take anything FW :( and once codex books start getting released again it'll really start to matter as faction rules , artefacts etc get released

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Uch that makes Necrosius awkward. He can buff 'The Tainted' and Poxwalkers, but can't buff one unit with both as poxwalkers have to be death guard .

The tainted are a death guard warband, you can substitute the death guard keyword with the tainted keyword, it says you can do this for blood angels, and dark angels to represent there successor chapters. (the only thing it denies you is taking unique characters)

The Death Guard are in a dumb place right now because their list was obviously written with models in mind that don't exist yet. Like it or not DG is almost certainly going to get the Scarab Occult treatment.

Let's talk about Dreadclaws and Kharybdis.

We know they can drop in Dreadnought-class units and Loyalists can't (yet).

We know the Kharybdis is almost as tough as a Land Raider.

We know they can run around eating people & regenerating, and that they have Nova attacks that will make MSU cry.

We know we can make them by surgically switching a Tyrannocyte's mouth and bumhole.

We know they are AWESOME.

Now. Their transport capacity is copied & pasted from the Drop Pod, mandating their passengers disembark immediately upon planetfall. This is odd, as they remain mobile, behaving like a ginormous Raptor with Transport capacity. Unfortunate, too, as it may provide opportunities for enemies to attack the passengers. Eh. I guess they're keen to get their boots on the ground after an orbital drop

If the passengers fail to charge on arrival - which should be planning for, even if they have a Khorne icon and a Sorcerer trying to hurry them along - then in the following turn, they are entitled to climb back aboard and go on a joyride.

If we're landing around a corner from a Devastator squad, out of their LOS, then we can jump back in, have the Claw jump over the terrain, get in the Devs' faces, burn them, charge them, eat them, and then next turn the passengers can jump out and raise Warp.

If we're threatened by dangerous units, it seems to me that there's even the option to Fall Back and climb aboard the Claw. Then, the Claw can Fly us away to another target, or to deny kills.

We can deliver highly mobile Mutilators or Terminators or Helbrutes from unexpected angles. When there's an incoming horde unit, we could get a Berzerker squad in there, and have the Claw join them, inflict horrific casualties, then leg it & let gunline finish off the survivors without exposing the Khornate brethren to firepower.

I'm thinking three, delivering a Fistsbrute, Berzerkers & DA/CL, and Plasma Havocs/Chosen & CL/S.

It's a minor point but the loyalists have access to the Lucius Dreadnaught Drop Pod in the FW index.

I wonder if the thermal jets can hit units in combat? If not, then the unit you deliver can get into combat to protect itself from being melted.

Depending on how the meta evolves I can see the pods being either very good or very useless. With the 9' minimum range some armies will be able to fill up a lot of their deployment zone to block you from coming in, and more armies will probably be using screening units too. Having said that, you could just deploy them on the board if your opponent is going to try that.

As for the contents, I'm thinking squishy but powerful infantry like Berzerkers, Chosen or Possessed with supporting HQs. If you want plasma action I think Terminators are the way to go. They will be cheaper than the Dreadclaw + contents, as well as more resistant to small arms and better in close combat. They are less mobile once deployed, though. Dreadclaws are more expensive than Fistbrutes so I'd not bother with that and just take two and have them footslog. With their increased movement speed they should be able to reach combat easily enough.

 Rydria wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Uch that makes Necrosius awkward. He can buff 'The Tainted' and Poxwalkers, but can't buff one unit with both as poxwalkers have to be death guard .

The tainted are a death guard warband, you can substitute the death guard keyword with the tainted keyword, it says you can do this for blood angels, and dark angels to represent there successor chapters. (the only thing it denies you is taking unique characters)

I mean, that sounds good, but as a chaos player I have no rules currently that tells me that's allowed.

Arachnofiend wrote:
The Death Guard are in a dumb place right now because their list was obviously written with models in mind that don't exist yet. Like it or not DG is almost certainly going to get the Scarab Occult treatment.

Yaknow, hearing DG being afraid they are getting "Scarab occulted" is funny when you are a TS, and you look at DG having more magic than you.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
The Death Guard are in a dumb place right now because their list was obviously written with models in mind that don't exist yet. Like it or not DG is almost certainly going to get the Scarab Occult treatment.

Yaknow, hearing DG being afraid they are getting "Scarab occulted" is funny when you are a TS, and you look at DG having more magic than you.

The Thousand Sons got Death Guarded!

One of the frustrating points for me of 'because the studio miniatures don't currently have this loadout, it's not even an option for you' is Dark Apostle with melee weapon. The studio only has two DAs, the finecast one and the Calth one. One has a plasma pistol, so DAs get to take pistols.

Meanwhile, of the half dozen Chaplain minis, there's a couple that come with power fists, so loyalists get to convert any melee weapon they like.

Kinda frustrating when you've given them £18 for the interrogator-chaplain and turned him into a Word Bearer.

The index list is awful.

This is interesting though

Hi,

I have several Slaanesh miniatures and I would like to build a competitive list at 1500 points with them. But I litterally do not know where to go in 8th édition.

Here are my chaos deamons:

Keeper of Secrets
Flying daemon prince
Belakor
10 seekers
6 heralds
5 icon bearers
90 Daemonettes

What could be a decet list with these models?

Thanks a lot !

HeavenLord wrote:
Hi,

I have several Slaanesh miniatures and I would like to build a competitive list at 1500 points with them. But I litterally do not know where to go in 8th édition.

Here are my chaos deamons:

Keeper of Secrets
Flying daemon prince
Belakor
10 seekers
6 heralds
5 icon bearers
90 Daemonettes

What could be a decet list with these models?

Thanks a lot !

You could def make a decent list with those. Daemonettes are pretty awesome now and you just need some ways to screen them while they move their way up (or are summoned) The KOS and Daemon prince could be some big baddies that would soak some fire, or y ou could just go witth weight of models with all those daemonettes. One thing I would get though is the masque who works to make them even more deadly.

Yeah, with that number of Daemonettes, the Masque will be really handy. A pack of Furies might be handy for screening the Daemonettes - it won't provide cover but it will add to target saturation, and if one of them survives then it remains a nuisance that adds 0.5 casualties to failed morale tests.

What do people think of the three flavours of Seeker Chariot? I'm impressed with the Hellflayer, it might well be a must-pack unit to Summon.

Someone convince me that Thousand sons are not a complete piece of gak army. I've played 3 games with them and at this point I feel like throwing them in a box and putting them away until a codex comes out.

- Rubric marines are worthless against anything but the most basic infantry. The weakened smite is absolutely laughable.
- Magnus is worthless and gets shot down in a single turn most of the time
- Daemon princes are worthless because of the lack of psychic phase
- Scarab occult lose in combat gainst a battlewagon. The fact that the sorcerer also got a weakened smite makes me want to cry. ML2 psyker got reduced to ML 0.2 psyker.

To summarize: unless your opponent brings nothing but tactical marines, you're fethed.
Anything I missed?

DaPino wrote:
Someone convince me that Thousand sons are not a complete piece of gak army. I've played 3 games with them and at this point I feel like throwing them in a box and putting them away until a codex comes out.

- Rubric marines are worthless against anything but the most basic infantry. The weakened smite is absolutely laughable.
- Magnus is worthless and gets shot down in a single turn most of the time
- Daemon princes are worthless because of the lack of psychic phase
- Scarab occult lose in combat gainst a battlewagon. The fact that the sorcerer also got a weakened smite makes me want to cry. ML2 psyker got reduced to ML 0.2 psyker.

To summarize: unless your opponent brings nothing but tactical marines, you're fethed.
Anything I missed?

What armies did you play?

TSons get Helbrutes, Predators, and Heldrakes, right? Sucks that Tzaangors can't get a DA Ld buff (and can't be taken by other Legions - nice one GW, good thing I didn't bother) but they're a pretty cheap T4 horde that dies slower against Plasma spam than MEQs. It looks like a pure Rubric army is going to struggle, yes, but they've got access to decent war machines to handle heavy units. Diversity definitely looks like the order of the day.