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 Trickstick wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1 unit being held hostage in CC can easily get a guard army tabled so adopt a no hostage policy and kill the hostage with a cyclops.

Now I'm back to wanting 3 Cyclopes.

Catachan spearhead of not already Catachan. Lord commissar and 3 cyclops. The reroll on hits makes them hit even more obscenely hard.

I could see some use with armageddon, if you already have a detachment of them. The improved save would help keep them alive, as I can imagine a flurry of small arms and -1ap fire trying to stop them.

And checked fw for cyclop price... so who has a cool count as or stand in model?

 Trickstick wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1 unit being held hostage in CC can easily get a guard army tabled so adopt a no hostage policy and kill the hostage with a cyclops.

Now I'm back to wanting 3 Cyclopes.

Edit: Now I'm thinking about it, Cyclops are really one of the few units in the game that can hurt your own units on purpose. Are there even any others? That is such a useful tactical tool to have. I may have to go 3x Cyclops in my brigade, and move russes and tank commanders over to a spearhead or battalion.

Only other things I'm aware of would be deathstrikes or Valhallans firing into combat and not rerolling your 1's.

The Valhallans thing is usually pretty reliable to finish off weakened infantry squads held hostage, but I wouldn't really rely on it to kill a sentinel, same for the deathstrikes since that's a one trick pony and you're not even sure when it will decide to fire, plus you need an enemy target nearby that isn't in combat.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also just buy actual Goliath models from historical companies. The cyclops is an almost direct copy of the WWII German Goliath, to the point the only real change is an Aquila slapped on it. You could probably throw those on the table unchanged and only a history nerd would notice.

Plenty of bits to enhance your guardsmen with, supply carts for objectives or scenery and Kettenkrad? Scenery, HWT, Rough Riders...
And the kit is cheap too.

Ork goliath mines also work

https://bitsofwar.com/home/128-orc-goliath-mines-.html

So with the vigalus special detachments, from what ive read i can spend the CPs to to enable 2 specialist detachments within my catachan brigade. Specifically the emperors conclave infantry and emperors wrath artillery company.

Gaining the emperors conclave keyword would be The infantry squads, company commander and priest (who would be my field commander therefore buffing surrounding infantry with +1A and reroll 1s to hit along with strakens +1A) i could splash out on tge relic that gives a nearby ubit +1A when he dies but that might be overkill.

The artillery company would effect my company commander, basilisk (ap-4) and wyvern (ap-1 4d6 reroll number of shots) ill be running Yarrick (now 100 pts) to give these reroll 1s to hit. The shoot twice strat could be used on either of the artillery.

The only anomoly is my company commander who gains both keywords. Hes just badged up i suppose.

My official warlord will be a lowly commisar with grand stratagist to farm some CP.

This brigade with straken, yarrick, an field commander artillery company commander, warlord commisar, field commander priest, enginseer, 6x 10 3A S4 reroll 1s infantry, the artillery pieces and some fast attack... Comes in at just under 1000pts.

You can only upgrade a detachment once, so you can't have both on a brigade. You would have to separate out some into a spearhead, or go dual battalion.

 Trickstick wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1 unit being held hostage in CC can easily get a guard army tabled so adopt a no hostage policy and kill the hostage with a cyclops.

Now I'm back to wanting 3 Cyclopes.

Edit: Now I'm thinking about it, Cyclops are really one of the few units in the game that can hurt your own units on purpose. Are there even any others? That is such a useful tactical tool to have. I may have to go 3x Cyclops in my brigade, and move russes and tank commanders over to a spearhead or battalion.

Not as easy as he's making it sound. Cyclops must be over and inch from the enemy, I can't tell you the number of times I have been annoyed rolling a 1" blast radius and needing to burn a CP. If a unit has a hostage and is on a 32mm base it could be a much much higher roll. You can't act like your opponent is an idiot, or that your deployment zone isn't going to be plugged. Generally when your playing the sort of army like kraken or ork tide you really don't want cyclops in your deployment. Your going to hit way more then your willing to.

BTW I have also blown cyclops too big, I like them, they are fun and I like running them, but they need to be outside your deployment running up a flank. Scout sentinels are still MUCH better then armored sentinels. The scout move ans stratagem means they can actually do their job reliably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1 unit being held hostage in CC can easily get a guard army tabled so adopt a no hostage policy and kill the hostage with a cyclops.

Now I'm back to wanting 3 Cyclopes.

Catachan spearhead of not already Catachan. Lord commissar and 3 cyclops. The reroll on hits makes them hit even more obscenely hard.

Yea but be careful of enemy armies like eldar that can move fast enough to draw a bead early or armies with their own indirect FP (hello hive guard and biovores). Having these die in your zone and explode on a 3+ really sucks and usually deploying them way off on there own has it's own problems. I loved them at 40ppm, but at the current 60 they feel much more hit or miss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh BTW I used barrels and cans from a Tamya upgrade pack and the treads off cataphron destroyers to make mine, not sure you can get cataphron treads off ebay for cheap anymore though.

 UMGuy wrote:
And checked fw for cyclop price... so who has a cool count as or stand in model?

Protip: Epic scale Landraiders are the EXACT same size, and look shockingly similar... for 20% of the cost. :-p

Can't remmeber if it's been noted already but having flicked through my copy of vigilus, unyielding advance will give tallarn russes a crazy amount of mobility without losing any shots. 18" of movement with unyielding advance and get around behind them. That kind of mobility opens up options in clutch situations, like moving a tallarn tank commander 18" up to an important enemy unit, dumping all it's firepower into it, then charging it with crush them! and steel phalanx for good measure.

 Trickstick wrote:
You can only upgrade a detachment once, so you can't have both on a brigade. You would have to separate out some into a spearhead, or go dual battalion.

I havent picked up my copy yet but i havent seen where it says you can only upgrade a detachment once. Can you link please.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
From what ive read the specialist detachment stratagem means certain units gain a keyword. I havent seen anywhere that you're limited to only gaining one keyword or that a detachment can only gain one keyword. I could be wrong but i relying on people whove already gottwn the book or can link to a fairly official website that says it.

The book said -

'A detachment from your army can only be upgraded to a specialist detachment once, and thus cannot have multiple specialist detachment stratagems applied to it, even if they affect different units in the detachment.'

Those are the last two words on page 168, and they carry over to 169.

So, now that the missile launcher mounted on the Taurox Prime has been brought back down, is it viable again? Is it worth taking over the cheaper battle cannon?

Ratlings are at 7pts again... worth?

 Smotejob wrote:
Ratlings are at 7pts again... worth?

Ratlings didn't change in price, they are still 9 with their guns.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Smotejob wrote:
Ratlings are at 7pts again... worth?

Ratlings didn't change in price, they are still 9 with their guns.

NVM :( got excited hahaha.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
The book said -

'A detachment from your army can only be upgraded to a specialist detachment once, and thus cannot have multiple specialist detachment stratagems applied to it, even if they affect different units in the detachment.'

Those are the last two words on page 168, and they carry over to 169.

Thanks dude. That means ill have a sofias choice situation coming up.

CaptainO wrote:
Thanks dude. That means ill have a sofias choice situation coming up.

There is often a way to shift units around to get the detachments you want. What problem are you having?

Just picked up the Vigilus Defiant book....in the Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company the stratagems refer to vehicle units. Am I to assume that a unit of vehicles maintain it's 'unit' status post deployment? So my unit of 3 basilisks can take advantage of Pounding Barrage or am I missing something?

 necron99 wrote:
Just picked up the Vigilus Defiant book....in the Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company the stratagems refer to vehicle units. Am I to assume that a unit of vehicles maintain it's 'unit' status post deployment? So my unit of 3 basilisks can take advantage of Pounding Barrage or am I missing something?

No, you can only do it on one:

Vehicle Squadron: The first time this unit is set up, all models in this unit must be placed within 6" of each other. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit for all rules purposes.

They would be treated as three separate units once deployed. You can still get the aura from the warlord trait, but not the stratagem.

Emperor's Blade Assault Company is viable with the points changes to Chimeras and whatnot?

 Trickstick wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Thanks dude. That means ill have a sofias choice situation coming up.

There is often a way to shift units around to get the detachments you want. What problem are you having?

No problem just being greedy. I run a custodes supreme commander detachment with 3 bike commanders, a cadian supreme commander detachment running as armoured fist specialist detachment with pask and two tank commander.
Theoretically my 3rd catachan brigade benefits more from the infantry specialist detachment rule but i do have a basilisk and wyvern that would benefit from the artillery rules. Double shooting basilisk with ap - 4 reroll number of shots and reroll 1s to hit from Yarrick.

I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Ecdain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Xeno's remembering incorrectly I think. Stratagem stops the unit from firing overwatch and halves it move characteristic. It's a fairly situational stratagem but it has it's uses I think, being able to have the movement characteristic of fast melee threats like genestealers or stop a unit overwatching in order to get a melee unit into combat intact will come in handy.

That said I'm not sure if it would be worth the opportunity cost of losing the extra shooting and hence damage you could just outright inflict on that unit instead.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1 unit being held hostage in CC can easily get a guard army tabled so adopt a no hostage policy and kill the hostage with a cyclops.

Now I'm back to wanting 3 Cyclopes.

Edit: Now I'm thinking about it, Cyclops are really one of the few units in the game that can hurt your own units on purpose. Are there even any others? That is such a useful tactical tool to have. I may have to go 3x Cyclops in my brigade, and move russes and tank commanders over to a spearhead or battalion.

Not as easy as he's making it sound. Cyclops must be over and inch from the enemy, I can't tell you the number of times I have been annoyed rolling a 1" blast radius and needing to burn a CP. If a unit has a hostage and is on a 32mm base it could be a much much higher roll. You can't act like your opponent is an idiot, or that your deployment zone isn't going to be plugged. Generally when your playing the sort of army like kraken or ork tide you really don't want cyclops in your deployment. Your going to hit way more then your willing to.

BTW I have also blown cyclops too big, I like them, they are fun and I like running them, but they need to be outside your deployment running up a flank. Scout sentinels are still MUCH better then armored sentinels. The scout move ans stratagem means they can actually do their job reliably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1 unit being held hostage in CC can easily get a guard army tabled so adopt a no hostage policy and kill the hostage with a cyclops.

Now I'm back to wanting 3 Cyclopes.

Catachan spearhead of not already Catachan. Lord commissar and 3 cyclops. The reroll on hits makes them hit even more obscenely hard.

Yea but be careful of enemy armies like eldar that can move fast enough to draw a bead early or armies with their own indirect FP (hello hive guard and biovores). Having these die in your zone and explode on a 3+ really sucks and usually deploying them way off on there own has it's own problems. I loved them at 40ppm, but at the current 60 they feel much more hit or miss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh BTW I used barrels and cans from a Tamya upgrade pack and the treads off cataphron destroyers to make mine, not sure you can get cataphron treads off ebay for cheap anymore though.

Against a gun line army with indirect fireI agree that cyclops should run up the flanks. The worst enemy of the cyclops is actually the basilisk.

A cyclops is tiny and very easy to hide. Even with fast units like jetbikes they usually have to get into my deployment zone. If they lack indirect fire and the terrain is favorable it's still safe to keep a cyclops midfield.

Hive guard are a real bitch. It's really the only unit my cyclops fear. Fortunately most of the time my basilisk gets shot instead having a center deployed cyclops means everyone else crams into the rest of the deployment zone, especially IC.

 gbghg wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Xeno's remembering incorrectly I think. Stratagem stops the unit from firing overwatch and halves it move characteristic. It's a fairly situational stratagem but it has it's uses I think, being able to have the movement characteristic of fast melee threats like genestealers or stop a unit overwatching in order to get a melee unit into combat intact will come in handy.

That said I'm not sure if it would be worth the opportunity cost of losing the extra shooting and hence damage you could just outright inflict on that unit instead.

You are correct. That is a garbage strat lol. They can shoot just fine against things far away but not the guys charging them. Brilliant....

 Xenomancers wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Xeno's remembering incorrectly I think. Stratagem stops the unit from firing overwatch and halves it move characteristic. It's a fairly situational stratagem but it has it's uses I think, being able to have the movement characteristic of fast melee threats like genestealers or stop a unit overwatching in order to get a melee unit into combat intact will come in handy.

That said I'm not sure if it would be worth the opportunity cost of losing the extra shooting and hence damage you could just outright inflict on that unit instead.

You are correct. That is a garbage strat lol. They can shoot just fine against things far away but not the guys charging them. Brilliant....

It's a good strat that was placed in an army that doesn't need it. The ability to deny overwatch really helps a lot of CC armies especially if they go up against auto hit weapons like d scythes
It's a garbage stat for a shooting army, but it's rock solid in some situations for a CC army.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Xeno's remembering incorrectly I think. Stratagem stops the unit from firing overwatch and halves it move characteristic. It's a fairly situational stratagem but it has it's uses I think, being able to have the movement characteristic of fast melee threats like genestealers or stop a unit overwatching in order to get a melee unit into combat intact will come in handy.

That said I'm not sure if it would be worth the opportunity cost of losing the extra shooting and hence damage you could just outright inflict on that unit instead.

You are correct. That is a garbage strat lol. They can shoot just fine against things far away but not the guys charging them. Brilliant....

It's a good strat that was placed in an army that doesn't need it. The ability to deny overwatch really helps a lot of CC armies especially if they go up against auto hit weapons like d scythes
It's a garbage stat for a shooting army, but it's rock solid in some situations for a CC army.

Agreed. It is a really useful stratagem for the quite common combination of Astra Militarum and Genestealer Cults.