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One important fact about the suppressing fire stratagem: it doesn't require you to inflict wounds, or even hit the target. You just spend 1 CP and get the buff. Got a 1 HP Wyvern that isn't going to accomplish anything? Had to fall back and can't shoot anyway? Use it for suppressing fire instead. Even if you don't have melee-oriented allies that benefit from the overwatch removal reducing movement speed is probably going to do more than fishing for 6s at that point.

Halving movement speed is no joke, it can be the difference between a win or a loss. How often does a unit run up and grab an objective to win the game? I think that the stratagem would be a decent reason to take a hydra for once. The cheapest of the units that can use it, and gives it something else to do if the enemy doesn't have fly units.

Or a Hydra that shoots twice with no cover.

 Fishborne wrote:
Or a Hydra that shoots twice with no cover.

I know that the Hydra is an oft-maligned unit, but I don't think that things like Jetbikes would enjoy that too much.

Mellon wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 gbghg wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Xeno's remembering incorrectly I think. Stratagem stops the unit from firing overwatch and halves it move characteristic. It's a fairly situational stratagem but it has it's uses I think, being able to have the movement characteristic of fast melee threats like genestealers or stop a unit overwatching in order to get a melee unit into combat intact will come in handy.

That said I'm not sure if it would be worth the opportunity cost of losing the extra shooting and hence damage you could just outright inflict on that unit instead.

You are correct. That is a garbage strat lol. They can shoot just fine against things far away but not the guys charging them. Brilliant....

It's a good strat that was placed in an army that doesn't need it. The ability to deny overwatch really helps a lot of CC armies especially if they go up against auto hit weapons like d scythes
It's a garbage stat for a shooting army, but it's rock solid in some situations for a CC army.

Agreed. It is a really useful stratagem for the quite common combination of Astra Militarum and Genestealer Cults.

Owwie NOOOoOooo

Wait the artillery company works on Hydras :O

AIR DEFENSE REGIMENT HOOOOOOO lol.

A thought occurs, does it state anywhere at all that you can't stack the movement halving effect? Because if you combined that strat with a banehammer's tremor cannon you could cut a unit to 1/4 of it's move characteristic and stop it advancing for good measure. Which will absolutely cripple the mobility of just about every unit in the game.

 gbghg wrote:
A thought occurs, does it state anywhere at all that you can't stack the movement halving effect? Because if you combined that strat with a banehammer's tremor cannon you could cut a unit to 1/4 of it's move characteristic and stop it advancing for good measure. Which will absolutely cripple the mobility of just about every unit in the game.

I'm not sure! Good question.

Worth noting that the EWAC strat only works on "Infantry" units though, so not really that helpful against Knights or Monsters or whatever. Tremor Cannon still works though!

It only works on the artillery units that gain a keyword.

CaptainO wrote:
It only works on the artillery units that gain a keyword.

No I mean, the enemy unit that is suppressed has to be an Infantry unit. The firing unit is still an EWAC tank.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 gbghg wrote:
A thought occurs, does it state anywhere at all that you can't stack the movement halving effect? Because if you combined that strat with a banehammer's tremor cannon you could cut a unit to 1/4 of it's move characteristic and stop it advancing for good measure. Which will absolutely cripple the mobility of just about every unit in the game.

I'm not sure! Good question.

Worth noting that the EWAC strat only works on "Infantry" units though, so not really that helpful against Knights or Monsters or whatever. Tremor Cannon still works though!

ah, thats true. There goes my dreams of reducing supersonic flyer's to 20" or less movement with a superheavy tank and an artillery piece. Still, Infantry is a vast keyword and there's a fair few units you might want to reduce the movement on for whatever reason.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Fishborne wrote:
Or a Hydra that shoots twice with no cover.

I know that the Hydra is an oft-maligned unit, but I don't think that things like Jetbikes would enjoy that too much.

Well they did get a discount in chapter approved, maybe they're more worth it now.

Problem is Icarus Onagers got an even bigger discount and as long as those exist I'm going to take them over hydras every time. I'm just kind of spoiled by them

Something else that just occured to me, both Aerial/Mechanised fire support states that that the chosen unit can fire over watch even if it's not the target of the charge. How does that interact with things like the banshee's mask which denies overwatch? Does the overwatch denial apply to all units or just the targeted ones?

 gbghg wrote:
Something else that just occured to me, both Aerial/Mechanised fire support states that that the chosen unit can fire over watch even if it's not the target of the charge. How does that interact with things like the banshee's mask which denies overwatch? Does the overwatch denial apply to all units or just the targeted ones?

It would depend on the wording of the rule. For the Banshees specifically, it states "Enemy units cannot fire Overwatch at this unit.", so you wouldn't get to overwatch. However, if another unit said something like "charged units cannot fire overwatch", then you could.

I am considering running a Mechanized Company using the Emperor's Blade stuff, something like

5x Chimeras with Stubber, Twin Heavy Flamer (just for the 90 pts even)

and then flavor to taste. I am finally considering Armageddon regimental doctrine as well! But I can't for the life of me figure out what models I want to use, as I envision the army making good use of plasma guns and flamethrowers, which... well, Steel Legion don't really have. I just kind of hate painting Cadian models differently and going "here be guys not using cadian doctrine!"

EDIT:
Actually, in closer examination, this wouldn't be so bad as a Catachan regiment, for re-rolls on the Chimera flamers and the Flamers order for infantry. Does a catachan mechanized regiment make sense fluffwise? I suppose they do... hm... *strokes beard*

Emperors blade would allow a command squad (or two) of catachans to drive up to an enemy, drop out the unit uaing the strat and then use the catachan order to reroll no. Of flamer attacks from the 3 normal and one heavy flamer theyd be equipped with.

CaptainO wrote:
Emperors blade would allow a command squad (or two) of catachans to drive up to an enemy, drop out the unit uaing the strat and then use the catachan order to reroll no. Of flamer attacks from the 3 normal and one heavy flamer theyd be equipped with.

Don't forget that only one unit can disembark with Rapid Redeploy. It isn't like the Scion one where the whole transport can dismount.

 Trickstick wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Emperors blade would allow a command squad (or two) of catachans to drive up to an enemy, drop out the unit uaing the strat and then use the catachan order to reroll no. Of flamer attacks from the 3 normal and one heavy flamer theyd be equipped with.

Don't forget that only one unit can disembark with Rapid Redeploy. It isn't like the Scion one where the whole transport can dismount.

Can you do Emperor's Blade with Death Korps? Hop out and start throwing Gas Grenades?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Can you do Emperor's Blade with Death Korps? Hop out and start throwing Gas Grenades?

Death Korps don't have the right units to use the formation. For example, they don't have Chimeras, they have DKOK storm chimeras. They don't have company commanders. they have marshals. So there are no units that can get the blade keyword.

Question about the Implacable Determination Warlord trait. can I use with move move move order for another 12 inch advance in the shooting phase? also the trait limits to one friendly unit per movement phase, would orders in the shooting phase bypass this rule and let multiple ordered units move move move 12 inches?

ghenghis_Ken wrote:
Question about the Implacable Determination Warlord trait. can I use with move move move order for another 12 inch advance in the shooting phase? also the trait limits to one friendly unit per movement phase, would orders in the shooting phase bypass this rule and let multiple ordered units move move move 12 inches?

It says it only works in the movement phase, so I don't think you can use it. Then again, the order says as if in the movement phase.

No idea, I would take it to YMDC.

New Question, but actually old question.

I swear it was answered somewhere, but can the Armageddon Order, Mount Up! be used to shoot and then mount up in a transport after falling back from combat?

 Trickstick wrote:

ghenghis_Ken wrote:
Question about the Implacable Determination Warlord trait. can I use with move move move order for another 12 inch advance in the shooting phase? also the trait limits to one friendly unit per movement phase, would orders in the shooting phase bypass this rule and let multiple ordered units move move move 12 inches?

It says it only works in the movement phase, so I don't think you can use it. Then again, the order says as if in the movement phase.

No idea, I would take it to YMDC.

Even if the answer is no 18+1D6 is still fast. If it is 24" you should have to model your guys as Kenyan marathoners.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
New Question, but actually old question.

I swear it was answered somewhere, but can the Armageddon Order, Mount Up! be used to shoot and then mount up in a transport after falling back from combat?

I think it might be a no, looking at the order it states "Until the end of the phase, the ordered unit can shoot then immediately embark within a friendly armageddon transport vehicle, as long as all models in the unit are within 3" of the the vehicle."

Get back in the fight however states "The ordered unit can shoot this phase even if it fell back in its movement phase". Fall back rules explicitly stop units from shooting if they don't have fly and get back in the fight makes a clear and explicit exception for the ordered unit, which mount up doesn't. That said, I'm gonna take a crawl through the faq's see if there's an answer anywhere.

Edit: Can't see anything in the faq's regarding it.

Combining it with Laurels of Command might work, though, but there is still the 4+ roll to pass the second command.

Retreat > order Get back in the Fight > Laurels > order Mount up > Shoot > Embark

Alright! Follow on then, can the Unit "Mount Up!" without shooting after it falls back?

I know that doesn't mean anything, as you can fall back and embark anyways in the movement phase, but what this lets you do is fall back, then move the Chimera up, then embark afterwards? IDK.

I want armageddon to be good, so I can use it for my Emperor's Blade.

The 18" rapid fire and ignore -1ap are already pretty good. I don't think that the order would really do anything.

 Trickstick wrote:
The 18" rapid fire and ignore -1ap are already pretty good. I don't think that the order would really do anything.

Hm.

Part of the issue is I'm warring, in my mind, with Catachan - I'm leery to use high-speed Chimeras without the Tallarn buff, so now that twin-heavy-flamer Chimeras really aren't that bad (budget Immolators imo), I am going to have 5 twin-flamer Chimeras, which benefit strongly from Catachan. Plus, every unit except one command squads will have at least 1 flamer or heavy flamer for the Catachan order, and every unit except command squads have vox casters (to synergize with the Emperor's Blade warlord trait).

So essentially, the question is: do I buff my Flamers (with the Catachan order and vehicle doctrine), or my plasma (with the Armageddon doctrine and disembark stratagem?).

The regiment's models are third-party models with GW weapons, so they could pass for either one, I think. They look a bit like Armageddon, but could easily be fluffed as Catachan with their masks dispensing combat drugs that make them superhumanly strong for short periods (at the cost of many deaths after each battle of course )

It's still pretty decent I think, Armageddon vets in a chimera will be able to hop out after the chimeraa moves, rapid fire plasma at 18", then come the next turn they can move alongside the transport, get another round of shooting off and hop back in. Armageddon definitely seems pretty decent for the emperor blade, it just whether its worth making a whole detachment Armageddon to let you do this with 1 unit.

The real problem with the emperor blade though, is that the tempestus drop force is basically a straight up better version of it, dismount strat affects multiple unit not just one, said unit's will have a higher density of special weapons (2 tempestus command squads rocking a full plasma/melta loadout +2 tempestors for orders), will be hitting on 2's with the warlord trait, rerolling wounds with the scion order and the overwatch strat is much, much scarier with a valk with rocket pods and heavy bolters than a chimera will ever be. fair bit more expensive though, but such is the scion life.

 gbghg wrote:
It's still pretty decent I think, Armageddon vets in a chimera will be able to hop out after the chimeraa moves, rapid fire plasma at 18", then come the next turn they can move alongside the transport, get another round of shooting off and hop back in. Armageddon definitely seems pretty decent for the emperor blade, it just whether its worth making a whole detachment Armageddon to let you do this with 1 unit.

The real problem with the emperor blade though, is that the tempestus drop force is basically a straight up better version of it, dismount strat affects multiple unit not just one, said unit's will have a higher density of special weapons (2 tempestus command squads rocking a full plasma/melta loadout +2 tempestors for orders), will be hitting on 2's with the warlord trait, rerolling wounds with the scion order and the overwatch strat is much, much scarier with a valk with rocket pods and heavy bolters than a chimera will ever be. fair bit more expensive though, but such is the scion life.

I want to play regular guard, though, not Glory Boys.

Plus, I'm struggling to make my list meet 1000 points, even with 5 chimeras with 10 heavy flamers, a vet squad with max plasma and a heavy flamer, infantry squads with flamers, command squads with flamers/RGB/medic and command squad with 4 plasma, and 2 officers with upgrades.

I'm sort of shocked about how much I can fit it. The only question is what regimental doctrine to use.