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 Trickstick wrote:
You do have to watch out for hail of fire with plasma though. You are increasing your chance of overheats. Not that I wouldn't do it, but maybe use gunners kill on sight the round you plan on using it, to help mitigate the danger.

True, but you dont have to overcharge.

 Dynas wrote:
True, but you dont have to overcharge.

Sounds like Xenos talk to me!

I guess you don't have to, but the list of things it doesn't help against is quite small. t1-3 1w infantry, t5-6 1w infantry.Anything else?

If you are really low on wounds I guess you wouldn't, but I usually prefer to hve the extra firepower.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
True, but you dont have to overcharge.

Sounds like Xenos talk to me!

I guess you don't have to, but the list of things it doesn't help against is quite small. t1-3 1w infantry, t5-6 1w infantry.Anything else?

If you are really low on wounds I guess you wouldn't, but I usually prefer to hve the extra firepower.

Depends on the risk as well. Would you shoot an Eldar flyer with -2 to hit with overcharge? Probably only if it was absolutely critical.

Regarding the MoO I think Tallarn is the only way to make him work. I run him with Manticores over basilisks for two reasons 1) Vigalus artillery detachment costs too much CP and 2) I'm already taking an Iotan Dragons detachment to make my scions useful (to get the regimental bonuses you can't have any non scion units such as basis or tank commanders) as well as a knight detachment so if I want to make my third detachment the Vigaluss Tank one (for the hammer of sunderance and to give my Demolisher tank commander a threat range of 40 +d6" threat range firing twice) I simply can't take the artillery detachment. I think the improvement to the manticore from PA means the artillery detachment is no longer an auto take.

In order to remain outside of 36" you need the Tallarns rule for firing heavy weapons. I find my self moving my two Manticores constantly to get the reroll 1s. I am tempted to go back to yarrick as he'll allow reroll of 1s at any range (and also in overwatch) also he'll give my hammer of sunderance, who hangs back with the artillery the ability to reroll 1s and pop smoke/shimmey back into cover. If I made Yarrick my warlord he'd be better able to survive all the eliminator/snipers in the Meta. I'd also have the ability to give him voice of command meaning he could give orders to both my tallarn infantry and my scions. I've never come up against orks in a tournament (although I do run them myself). Yarricks reroll all failed hits against orks would be a huge boon in a tournament setting.

If I take scions in my tallarn detachment can I make them Iotan Dragons. I know they won't get the added 6" range but it would mean my tempestus scions could order them.

I do feel like Yarrick is worth looking at, but man is he expensive. That said, he provides ld9, commissar reroll if needed, reroll 1's for all hit rolls, has a stormbolter hitting on 2's and a powerfist hitting on 3's, and even works for the pysker anti peril explosion ability. I'm looking at using him for custom regiments to help make up for the lack of reroll to hit abilities and make regular Russ demolishers/manticore more accurate, but his ability to help with hit rolls in melee helps too. I guess he even counts as a master of ordnance with the bonus that his works even if the enemy is in pistol range of his tanks.

Also who knows, orks could become really good with PA. If so, his viability goes up quite a bit. I don't really think he's as important for armies with natural hit rerolls like Cadian or Catachan though, but if you're playing an army that has to rely on orders for accuracy buffs he's a big force multiplier. Key is to make him have as much impact as the 100pts missing from your force could've done devoted to a tank like a Demolisher or a basilisk.

I only realised the master of ordinance could be ordered today and I’ve been playing them for a year. I’ve never considered it before but does forwards for the emperor negate the traditional inability to move and shoot the MOO. RAW it seems it does.
If and when orks are more in the meta yarrick may become an option.

CaptainO wrote:
I only realised the master of ordinance could be ordered today and I’ve been playing them for a year. I’ve never considered it before but does forwards for the emperor negate the traditional inability to move and shoot the MOO. RAW it seems it does.
If and when orks are more in the meta yarrick may become an option.

Forwards for the Emperor only lets you fire if you advance. The Master of Ordnance has a rule that they can't fire after moving, nothing to do with advancing.

What are everyone's thoughts on these custom regiments? Are they worth giving up the regimental orders and stratagems for?

For example, say for an infantry regiment with +6" range and cover when not advancing, when compared to taking a Vostroyan regiment, is the bonus cover worth losing giving one squad +1 to hit? Or what about compared to Cadians and their +1 vs a target for everyone after dealing a wound to said target?

Arcanis161 wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on these custom regiments? Are they worth giving up the regimental orders and stratagems for?

For example, say for an infantry regiment with +6" range and cover when not advancing, when compared to taking a Vostroyan regiment, is the bonus cover worth losing giving one squad +1 to hit? Or what about compared to Cadians and their +1 vs a target for everyone after dealing a wound to said target?

I think the trick is you have to ruthlessly optimize it and go big or go home. Trying to make a balanced regiment with one infantry and one tank trait isn't doing much. You want to stack 2 infantry in one detachment and 2 tank in another. From there, you're banking on your base units being so good that you don't notice the missing straken/overlapping fields of fire/regimental pride/etc. Then you need to really make the most of non regimental buffs like the Vigilus detachments and PA abilities.

I do feel like infantry guard with 18" rapid fire/cover at all times is very powerful backed up by reroll shot type/+6" range tanks. That's strong enough to ensure your guardsmen put in work and you can even make a regular demolisher at 135pts a force to reckoned with.

Problem is I've not had a game using them yet. I feel the answer is yes, these abilities can stand toe to toe with Catachan or Cadians, but you really need to build your army with it in mind. With how quickly cp gets burned these days, I feel like the ability to have your units stand on their own with minimal strats is worth it. Especially with stuff like hydras wail out there. It also allows you to focus less on strats and more on units, which means less reliance on stuff like tank commanders and more ability to just take regular tanks or units.

Perma-cover is a really good ability, tactically speaking. You are suddenly free to completely disregard seeking cover with the majority of your force. Seeing as how difficult it can be to stick to cover if you have a decent amount of infantry, it opens up a lot of options.

 Trickstick wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
I only realised the master of ordinance could be ordered today and I’ve been playing them for a year. I’ve never considered it before but does forwards for the emperor negate the traditional inability to move and shoot the MOO. RAW it seems it does.
If and when orks are more in the meta yarrick may become an option.

Forwards for the Emperor only lets you fire if you advance. The Master of Ordnance has a rule that they can't fire after moving, nothing to do with advancing.

You're right on both accounts but surely if the MOO advances and is then issued "Forward for the Emperor" (unit can fire even if it advanced) then he can fire. Normal infantry cannot fire rapid fire or heavy weapons if they advance, this order supersedes that. It would be worth moving in LoS for the +1 to hit he receives for having eyes on the target. The MoOs BS3+ with Heavy 6 S8 AP-2 d3 shots for 1CP isn't too bad a combo. Easily sniped so the ordered ability to move and shoot would allow him to remain safe.

If a MoO advances, then there are two rules restricing shooting: the weapon rule and the advance rule. FFTE only removes one of these, the advancing one. It doesn't remove the basic restriction that the MoO has.

Plus you can only use it once per game, so you don't really need to move and shoot anyway.

FFTE doesn't specify that it removes any rule. It simply states that a model may shoot even if it advanced. A heavy weapon would not be able to shoot if the unit advanced, but it can with this order. The order does not specify which weapons are effected or not only "The ordered unit can shoot this turn even if it advanced in its movement phase"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
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Quick question from an IG/AM Noob

At 2000 Points: How should I run infantry with the tanks I own? I was going to have small infantry blob and mortar group on foot. I have 70 unbuilt infantry and 6 unbuilt heavy weapon teams

1x Vanquisher LR (Count as relic battle cannon Sunderance)
1x Executioner (Side Plasma) LR
3x Leman Russ Main Battle Tank (Side Heavy Bolters)
2x Demolisher Siege Tanks (Side Multi-Meltas, HF Front)
1x Hell Hound
1x Manticore

 Stevefamine wrote:
Quick question from an IG/AM Noob

At 2000 Points: How should I run infantry with the tanks I own? I was going to have small infantry blob and mortar group on foot. I have 70 unbuilt infantry and 6 unbuilt heavy weapon teams

1x Vanquisher LR (Count as relic battle cannon Sunderance)
1x Executioner (Side Plasma) LR
3x Leman Russ Main Battle Tank (Side Heavy Bolters)
2x Demolisher Siege Tanks (Side Multi-Meltas, HF Front)
1x Hell Hound
1x Manticore

Most people ATM are running their infantry bare.

I would personally say that you can throw in Plasmas of you have them or want to use them. Gives your infantry threat versus MEQ. Can't see the point in any other special weapon IMHO.

The vox is a bit of a trap; you're spending at minimum 10 points to have someone order a unit further away. Just practice your positioning with your Company and Platoon Commanders.

Mortars are still good for your heavy weapons squads. Run them as Cadian with a Company Commander near them. Give a squad the strat for the bonus to hit, have the Company Commander order them to Take Aim, and you'll do work against GEQ enemies.

Thanks for the response Arcanis161!

I'll honestly run bare bones filler squads for now.

I'll run CC and bare bones 10 mans with 6 mortar teams to help out against my regular opponents (swarm style armies)

Opinions on sponsons on tank commanders? For instance Plasma on Executioner? Theyre a pretty big target so im guessing no, but it sounds fun

I would, just to take advantage of the bs 3+. You have to make the turns you can use it count. Plus, its like 20 points for plasma. Combine that with the max shot stratagem and you have a lot of shots. Would definitely use the reroll 1s order though.

 Stevefamine wrote:
Quick question from an IG/AM Noob

At 2000 Points: How should I run infantry with the tanks I own? I was going to have small infantry blob and mortar group on foot. I have 70 unbuilt infantry and 6 unbuilt heavy weapon teams

1x Vanquisher LR (Count as relic battle cannon Sunderance)
1x Executioner (Side Plasma) LR
3x Leman Russ Main Battle Tank (Side Heavy Bolters)
2x Demolisher Siege Tanks (Side Multi-Meltas, HF Front)
1x Hell Hound
1x Manticore

That's a good core of vehicles, especially with the new tank Ace for manticores.

For infantry, most people run them bare, and that's a solid way to do it. Cheap screen, anti horde with FRFSRF, and MMM to claim objectives. I am seriously considering missile launchers for line infantry however. One point more than a mortar, 3 more than plasma. But, you're getting a 48" range weapon that can threaten tanks or infantry, and you only need a couple lucky hits to mess something up. Really nice for when you go first on hammer and anvil and have to shoot into the opponent's deployment or in general need to drop a big unit like a knight asap. They're best with Cadia but I could see them working for many regiments. I need to do some test games of course, but gut feeling is that they're a good way to make a 100 guardsmen screen do more than just screen, at the cost of a couple squads or something like a basilisk. The other standby would be a Bolter and plasma gun, especially with the new 18" rapid fire custom regiment ability. The issue I have with plasma is they're very swingy and often only able to be fired once or twice before the bearer dies. That said, if you get even one solid hit you're usually killing something the same cost as the bearer or even more expensive than he is, so they're not bad.

For the tanks, I've taken a liking to hull lascannons on commanders. It's a 7pt upgrade for a weapon that actually does something. From there it really depends on regiment for the sponsons. Really I only like them as plasma on an executioner or heavy bolters for a punisher, both only for TC's or just Tallarn in general. They suffer movement penalties which means that those points are usually better spent elsewhere. To give you an idea, 7 tanks with plasma sponsons gets an entire demolisher and most of the way to a hull lascannon. Sponsons add up fast and don't really add that much firepower for most armies so just keep that in mind. They can be good, just consider what you're getting and if those points are better spent elsewhere

I'll skip sponsons on my tanks for now - I can always add them on later

+ added Hull Lascannon on the commander

Missiles for line infantry as well

Ok, so I’ve got a 2000 pt game vs space marines where I’ve told my opponent I will be bringing nothing but infantry. Apart from spamming an ungodly number of troops, anyone got anything spicy I can do? They’ll be playing imperium with mostly mixed space marine chapters, maybe a knight

C4790M wrote:
Ok, so I’ve got a 2000 pt game vs space marines where I’ve told my opponent I will be bringing nothing but infantry. Apart from spamming an ungodly number of troops, anyone got anything spicy I can do? They’ll be playing imperium with mostly mixed space marine chapters, maybe a knight

Only infantry? I'm not sure why you agreed to that. Tanks and Artillery are one of our major strengths.

If that's the case, I'd say bring as many Plasmas as you can. Definitely bring a large amount of Lascannons and/or Rocket Launchers as you can (Rocket Launchers are lower strength but cheaper, so you might be able to squeeze more of them in.)

Definitely get some Scions as well, bring them as Iotan Dragons for more Hot Shot Las shots. Again, as many Plasmas as possible.

You're in for a very, very tough fight. I'd expect to lose at least 5 infantry squads per turn.

C4790M wrote:
Ok, so I’ve got a 2000 pt game vs space marines where I’ve told my opponent I will be bringing nothing but infantry. Apart from spamming an ungodly number of troops, anyone got anything spicy I can do? They’ll be playing imperium with mostly mixed space marine chapters, maybe a knight

You could do stuff like take an Emperor's Conclave with Catachans, or a full Bullgryn squad to give yourself some meat. If they think you are bringing all infantry, Bullgryns may be a surprise as they are a lot tougher.

Remember that Special Weapons a very points efficient—last I heard.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:
What are everyone's thoughts on these custom regiments? Are they worth giving up the regimental orders and stratagems for?

I do feel like infantry guard with 18" rapid fire/cover at all times is very powerful backed up by reroll shot type/+6" range tanks. That's strong enough to ensure your guardsmen put in work and you can even make a regular demolisher at 135pts a force to reckoned with.

Agreed, these are the exact 2 pairings I was thinking as well. And then a 3rd regiment of Tallarn i think.

Has anyone deployed a tallarn superheavy with ambush? Im trying to envisage it with 2 shadowswords (I'd have to use the strategem twice). I presume its the only way to protect them from alpha strike, as you cant simply reserve any chosen unit in 8th, right? I love the guard super heavies but im trying to figure out how to make them last.

Also, anyone used tank ace on a superheavy? The three options seem pretty underwhelming.

ArikTaranis wrote:
Has anyone deployed a tallarn superheavy with ambush? Im trying to envisage it with 2 shadowswords (I'd have to use the strategem twice). I presume its the only way to protect them from alpha strike, as you cant simply reserve any chosen unit in 8th, right? I love the guard super heavies but im trying to figure out how to make them last.

Also, anyone used tank ace on a superheavy? The three options seem pretty underwhelming.

To be honest its probably the only way to run your superheavies in the current climate. Its too easy for the enemy to delete a super heavy T1 so keeping them in reserve with ambush is a good idea. However, I think you are best just doing the 1 super heavy. Doing it with 2 is a lot of command points and also means that a lot of your army is off the board which is gonn amke it hard to get first blood/strike.

Oh what a surprise ! MordianGlory, glad to see you here. A forum like this one is a better place to engage discussions, rather than a youtube comment section, irrespective of the quality of a channel.

Arcanis161 wrote:

C4790M wrote:
Ok, so I’ve got a 2000 pt game vs space marines where I’ve told my opponent I will be bringing nothing but infantry. Apart from spamming an ungodly number of troops, anyone got anything spicy I can do? They’ll be playing imperium with mostly mixed space marine chapters, maybe a knight

Only infantry? I'm not sure why you agreed to that. Tanks and Artillery are one of our major strengths.

If that's the case, I'd say bring as many Plasmas as you can. Definitely bring a large amount of Lascannons and/or Rocket Launchers as you can (Rocket Launchers are lower strength but cheaper, so you might be able to squeeze more of them in.)

Definitely get some Scions as well, bring them as Iotan Dragons for more Hot Shot Las shots. Again, as many Plasmas as possible.

You're in for a very, very tough fight. I'd expect to lose at least 5 infantry squads per turn.

Relating to this specific situation, I was wondering if anyone had feedback on this list. I have all the models, in the process of painting now:

(the following list is comprised of three battalions, and is posted as one block for convenience)
(18 rapid fire doctrine, counts as in cover doctrine, lambdan lions +1AP doctrine)


Total of 6 missile launchers, 9 lascannons, and 59 plasma weapons.

Why the master of ordnance? I'd definitely take as many psykers as possible with that list. Astropaths deny cover. Probably use Psychic barrier + Nightshroud on a blobbed infantry squad.

It may help to know more about your thought process on how to use all these components in a game so we can provide better feedback.

I see a few things I'd be concerned about in this list here are a few for starters:
I'd probably scrap the missile launchers in the infantry squads simply because they'll still probably move around. If you want them to build your castle, I'd put lascannons in them and ditch lascannon heavy weapon squads. Those things will simply be the first units targeted by your opponent's AT weapons. Change them to mortars and hide them.

Are you planning on deep striking all of your Scions? I'm not sure you realize how much space all of these bodies will take up.