Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?

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**KommissarKiln**

Pseudomonas wrote:
I will be using sentinels as a fast attack 'tax', minimalist scout sentinels or armoured with weapon upgrades ad if so, which?

The prevailing opinions thus far are:

1. Scout sentinel with heavy flamer. Deploy far forwards into cover with scout move, deny deepstriking space, and harass/screen troops. Always fall back if they charge so they eat more overwatch.
2. Armored sentinel with lascannon. More antitank in your gun line. That's about it.

I'm a little more of a fan of option 1, but both are decent options. Other weapons and wargear are essentially wasted points, however.

**Requizen**

What do you think of something like this for a Scion focused list with some AM backup?

Battalion
Tempestor Prime - Rod
Tempestor Prime - Rod

Scions - 2x Melta
Scions - 2x Plasma
Scions - 2x Plasma

Command Squad - 4x Plasma
Command Squad - 4x Melta

Taurox - Missiles, Autocannons
Taurox - Missiles, Autocannons
Taurox - Missiles, Volley Guns

Spearhead
Tempestor Prime - Rod

Heavy Weapons - 3x Mortar
Heavy Weapons - 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapons - 3x Autocannon
Wyvern
Basilisk
Manticore

Superheavy
Shadowsword - both sponsons

1975/2000

Focusing on backfield long range shooting, and then Scions to drop forward and go for objectives. Not sure which artillery pieces are best, so I took a mix.

C&C?

**necron99**

I went out and bought 4 boxes of scions to make into 4 command squads loaded with plasma looking for that alpha/beta strike on one of my peeps AM list. In my second 8E game I ran 2 command squads and dropped them near his pack of Russes. I believe I killed one tank which didn't explode. Then in his turn he killed both command squads and a second IK Knight. Lesson learned? Artillery/Russes are king in the AM world.

If I could do a null deployment I'd go straight command squads with plasma and tempestor primes and always lose the kill point game

I just bought a shadowsword but I fear he will befall the same fate as my pair of knights in my last game (of course it helped that he went first and we were playing the long board). But the model is cool and will be fun to watch roll around the terrain for a turn or two before blowing up...and for the same points I could be rocking 3 bassies and 2 manticores.

The other problem I've found with running shadowsword is that (for me anyway) if you go to Nova you'll be giving up a secondary as kill a detachment is a secondary.

**Blightstar**

necron99 wrote:
The other problem I've found with running shadowsword is that (for me anyway) if you go to Nova you'll be giving up a secondary as kill a detachment is a secondary.

If thats a problem then take Supreme Command detachment. It allows one LoW and since it also includes 3 HQ, it is much harder to wipe out.

**vizier**

argonak wrote:
My Tempestus Scion set just came in the mail. I'm going to make a Taurox Prime.

I haven't decided what to do about the autocannon and volley guns, I really don't like their placement on the side of the vehicle.

Try building the main gun as normal, then mounting a single autocannon or volley gun on the other side of the turret.
Displays your choice of wargear while avoiding the side mounts, and looks more balanced than trying to cram both auto/volley on the turret.

**CaptainO**

TankCmdr wrote:
So newbie question, but I'm trying to understand the advantages of taking conscripts in larger blocks as opposed to multiple smaller units that stick close together. Is it just better overwatch and orders efficiency?

I.e. If I'm trying to fill out a Brigade and want to run 40 cons with a Commander and commissar, is 2x20 worse than 1x40?

The commander gives 2 orders per turn, so that wouldn't be an issue, and if you keep the 2 con squads close, they'll both benefit from the commissar. Plus if one unit gets charged, the other is still free, and can provide fire support when the charged unit fails back.

If bigger blocks are better, I wanna use them; I'm just trying to see why most generals favor them

If you're trying to fill out a Brigade 6 x 10 man Infantry squads are the cheaper way to go. You'd end up with less guys. (60 rather than 120) and In points 6 x 40 rather than 6 x 50 (important if youre trying to fill out the brigade while keeping pts down) but as you said separate squads with separate lines would allow counter attacks. With the new consolidate rules I'd be afraid that a large blob would allow the enemy to consolidate into a near by unit.

I get that with Straken, a priest and a commisar your would give your conscritps plus two attacks and an effective leadership of 8 but I feel the WS of 4+ and BS of 4+ of the infantry would mean they'd do more damage.

Also I don't feel like buying and painting 120 models...

Does anyone have any experience laying out AM gunlines so as to prevent the enemy from consolidating into the next line following the fight phase. Will a 4" gap between each straight line of infantry guarantee the line behind will get to shoot (and then charge) the next turn?

**Kaiyanwang**

Otto von Bludd wrote:
The Taurox missile launcher is a really good all purpose option paired with the autocannons. I think it's the best variant personally.

Unless I am mistaken, is 10 points overpriced.

**Requizen**

How are the Hellhound variants? They seem like the logical choice for a midfield mechanized force.

**argonak**

vizier wrote:
argonak wrote:
My Tempestus Scion set just came in the mail. I'm going to make a Taurox Prime.

I haven't decided what to do about the autocannon and volley guns, I really don't like their placement on the side of the vehicle.

Try building the main gun as normal, then mounting a single autocannon or volley gun on the other side of the turret.
Displays your choice of wargear while avoiding the side mounts, and looks more balanced than trying to cram both auto/volley on the turret.

Thanks, I like that idea.

**RenegadeKorps**

I played a 2000 pts game against Grey Knight. Three turns of shooting and everything he had was dead.
He played 2 stormravens, 2x5 terminators, draigo, 2 dread knights. His list was weak imo.

I had
12 plasma3x4=12 plasma tempestus command squad (arrived turn 3 when all the job was done)
2 earthshaker carriages (I will convert them to play the battery since there is no reason to take the carriage)
9 tarantulas twin lascannon (they were apparently my opponent's priory target; Imo they are very good, but not game breaking)
2x2=4 medusas carriage
2 commissars
Yarrick (not sure he's worth it; I take him only for the re-roll; to make its point back, he has to be around units worth together six times its price since he ''adds'' 1/6 shot : it means at least 800 pts of units must be within 6'' of him at all time; not impossible though. EDIT : wow Harker has the same buff for 50pts! totally worth it.)
3x20 = 60 conscripts
1 Void shield generator (my opponent said it was game changing because It helped my conscripts keep the line)
3 defence searchlights (they were good when I didn't forget them; my opponent apparently ignored them)
and... best unit of the game... tadam : 6 cyclops demolition vehicles. Totally brutal. They won't be ignored next time...
2 astropaths -- competing for the best unit spot.

No orders. I used to play Renegades so I forget to include them in my lists.
The new Imperial Guard is very similar to 7th edition Renegades.

**Requizen**

So the Superheavy tanks don't ignore the -1 to hit when moving and firing Heavy? Seems odd that they don't when Leman Russes have a rule for it.

**broxus**

Requizen wrote:
So the Superheavy tanks don't ignore the -1 to hit when moving and firing Heavy? Seems odd that they don't when Leman Russes have a rule for it.

Where is the rule that says they don't I must have missed that.

**Loopstah**

They don't have any rule on their sheet saying they ignore it, so they get -1 to hit when moving.

**Unit1126PLL**

The superheavies trade moving and shooting accurately for being able to fire when locked in combat.

This is super OP as it means the vehicle can never be stopped from shooting or over watching.

**CaptainO**

Ir0njack wrote:
Trying to come up with a "core" of a TAC list ar 1500. The idea is that I can either slide additional units in, change the loadout, or both for larger games. Any thoughts or critiques are welcome!

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [1500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Ratlings [63pts]
. 9x Ratling: 9x Sniper Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [ 220pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [27pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [ 72pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [534pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

Cool list dude but you're so close to a brigade and those sweet sweet 9 re-rolls. Hell you could easily run a separate spearhead with the Leman Russes just by replacing them with a 27 pt mortar team (or a 36pt Heavy bolter team) and giving them a Company commander/upgrading one of the commisars with a Lord Commisar. It would cost 16 conscripts (19 for the Heavy bolters) but an extra re-roll, Lord commisar (including his better leadership, power sword and ballistic skill) plus three heavy bolters are probably going to do more damage than the conscripts.

Have you thought about the Straken, Priest, combo for your conscript blobs, +2 attacks combined with any nearby commisars "discipline" would make them a pretty good fighting force. Thats before Straken gives two of the blobs re-roll 1s to wound.

**schadenfreude**

Finally got my imperial armor codex.

At 1st glance Manticore batteries seemed awesome. D6 lascannon shots for less than 75% of the cost of a Manticore. Then I saw they have to buy their rockets 4 times for 4 rockets leaving it 5 points under the cost of a regular Manticore.

Renegades are disappointing except for ogres and their dogs and malefic lords. Unnatural vigor is insane, but needs a little 10+ every turn. Definitely worth burning a command point on the roll if one of the dice is already a 6.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaptainO wrote:
Ir0njack wrote:
Trying to come up with a "core" of a TAC list ar 1500. The idea is that I can either slide additional units in, change the loadout, or both for larger games. Any thoughts or critiques are welcome!

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [1500pts] ++

+ HQ +

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

Company Commander [31pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Troops +

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Conscripts [120pts]: 40x Conscript

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [46pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Commissar [31pts]: Bolt pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [64pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Ratlings [63pts]
. 9x Ratling: 9x Sniper Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [ 220pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [27pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [ 72pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [534pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

Cool list dude but you're so close to a brigade and those sweet sweet 9 re-rolls. Hell you could easily run a separate spearhead with the Leman Russes just by replacing them with a 27 pt mortar team (or a 36pt Heavy bolter team) and giving them a Company commander/upgrading one of the commisars with a Lord Commisar. It would cost 16 conscripts (19 for the Heavy bolters) but an extra re-roll, Lord commisar (including his better leadership, power sword and ballistic skill) plus three heavy bolters are probably going to do more damage than the conscripts.

Have you thought about the Straken, Priest, combo for your conscript blobs, +2 attacks combined with any nearby commisars "discipline" would make them a pretty good fighting force. Thats before Straken gives two of the blobs re-roll 1s to wound.

Orders math hammer 18 conscripts for number of wound rolls

FRFSRF 24 wound rolls from flashlights, 18 from CC=42

Bring it down 12 from flashlight, 18 CC= 30 hits+6 from rerolls to wound =36

Fix bayonets= 36 CC hits when already locked in CC.

**Ir0njack**

Well it seems most games in the local meta are going to be in the 100pw/2000pt range so this was my attempt at a "Core" that can be filled out woyh things like priest, psykers, MOAR conscripts, infantry squads, etc etc. I'll more than likely push it oit to fill a brigade in most cases but really wanted to get other eyes on it first as I'm almost exclusively casual so noy the greateat at building "good" lists.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback, you folks definitely have me some idea to work on!

**RenegadeKorps**

schadenfreude wrote:
Finally got my imperial armor codex.

At 1st glance Manticore batteries seemed awesome. D6 lascannon shots for less than 75% of the cost of a Manticore. Then I saw they have to buy their rockets 4 times for 4 rockets leaving it 5 points under the cost of a regular Manticore.

I did not notice, thanks. I can only hope it is an oversight. It should be 10 pts for all 4 missiles. Even then, though, it is better point investment than the tank for the damage output (I did the math). Still, the tarantula twinlascannon is the superior choice.

**vipoid**

For those who haven't seen yet, the new FAQs are out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

The most important one for us is this:

Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List
Add the following rule:
‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.

So, no more spamming MT Command Squads unless you also plan to spam Tempestor Primes along with them.

**Razerous**

vipoid wrote:
For those who haven't seen yet, the new FAQs are out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

The most important one for us is this:

Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List
Add the following rule:
‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.

So, no more spamming MT Command Squads unless you also plan to spam Tempestor Primes along with them.

So very not surprised. Regular MT Scion squads FTW

**Colonel Cross**

They also nerfed the crap out of the Void Shield Generator :( haha I was going to have some fun with that.

**gungo**

In all honesty this is a weak nerf. I expected scions to go up in cost and plasmaguns to be nerfed across the board given how much better then grenade launchers and poorly melta works w deepstrike. Command squads isn't that big a deal as people said regular scion squads are still awesome.
And the match play undersized unit ruling is ripe for abuse.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Colonel Cross wrote:
They also nerfed the crap out of the Void Shield Generator :( haha I was going to have some fun with that.

I read it quickly what got nerfed? Sounded like they completely removed the damage chart. How is that a nerf?

**Requizen**

Played my first game today with my Scions against Dark Eldar. Put my list together before the FAQ dropped but still only brought 3 Tempestus Command Squads and 3 Primes, so it all worked out

A bunch of drop Scions, 5 Tauroxes, and a Knight vs Bikes, some transports with dudes, and a few Talos Engines. Ended up calling it on T4 since he only had a few units left and I controlled 3/4 of the objectives on Big Guns, and he hadn't put a scratch on the Knight.

Quite powerful. I feel like maybe 2 Knights with Scions would be better, since armies with ranged anti-tank could bust it T1, but honestly the Tauroxes did most of the heavy lifting. Their shooting is so strong and long ranged, and they aren't exactly made of paper.

**SonsofVulkan**

Razerous wrote:
vipoid wrote:
For those who haven't seen yet, the new FAQs are out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

The most important one for us is this:

Page 10 – Astra Militarum Army List
Add the following rule:
‘Matched Play – Command Squads If you are playing a matched play game, a Battle-forged army can include a maximum of one <Regiment> Command Squad (pg 15) in a Detachment for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. Similarly, if you are playing a matched play game, a Battleforged army can include a maximum of one Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (pg 51) in a Detachment for each Tempestor Prime (pg 50) in that Detachment.

So, no more spamming MT Command Squads unless you also plan to spam Tempestor Primes along with them.
So very not surprised. Regular MT Scion squads FTW

Regular scion squads hits no where as hard as a CS with 2 less special weapons and not very cost effective for suicide drop purposes. Still better than nothing lol

**Zuri Prime**

Requizen wrote:
Played my first game today with my Scions against Dark Eldar. Put my list together before the FAQ dropped but still only brought 3 Tempestus Command Squads and 3 Primes, so it all worked out

A bunch of drop Scions, 5 Tauroxes, and a Knight vs Bikes, some transports with dudes, and a few Talos Engines. Ended up calling it on T4 since he only had a few units left and I controlled 3/4 of the objectives on Big Guns, and he hadn't put a scratch on the Knight.

Quite powerful. I feel like maybe 2 Knights with Scions would be better, since armies with ranged anti-tank could bust it T1, but honestly the Tauroxes did most of the heavy lifting. Their shooting is so strong and long ranged, and they aren't exactly made of paper.

Out of curiosity, what sort of loadouts did you run on your Tauroxes?

**SonsofVulkan**

schadenfreude wrote:

Orders math hammer 18 conscripts for number of wound rolls

FRFSRF 24 wound rolls from flashlights, 18 from CC=42

Bring it down 12 from flashlight, 18 CC= 30 hits+6 from rerolls to wound =36

Fix bayonets= 36 CC hits when already locked in CC.

Does the flashlight stack? Like if I shine 2 flashlights on a single target, two of my units gets +1BS to hit?

**Requizen**

Zuri Prime wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Played my first game today with my Scions against Dark Eldar. Put my list together before the FAQ dropped but still only brought 3 Tempestus Command Squads and 3 Primes, so it all worked out

A bunch of drop Scions, 5 Tauroxes, and a Knight vs Bikes, some transports with dudes, and a few Talos Engines. Ended up calling it on T4 since he only had a few units left and I controlled 3/4 of the objectives on Big Guns, and he hadn't put a scratch on the Knight.

Quite powerful. I feel like maybe 2 Knights with Scions would be better, since armies with ranged anti-tank could bust it T1, but honestly the Tauroxes did most of the heavy lifting. Their shooting is so strong and long ranged, and they aren't exactly made of paper.

Out of curiosity, what sort of loadouts did you run on your Tauroxes?

Missiles and Autocannons. Expensive, but powerful.

**Aaranis**

What's the thoughts about Primaris Psykers ? For 40 pts, having a Psyker with 2 powers looks good. And, as Sisters of Silence no longer hinder your own Psykers I'm considering adding one or two in my army. Wyrdvane Psykers look awful (and their models, ugh) and the Astropath looks like a very specific support, maybe to help some Snipers ? I already have a 7 points Omnispex to negate Cover.

JB

SonsofVulkan wrote:

Regular scion squads hits no where as hard as a CS with 2 less special weapons and not very cost effective for suicide drop purposes. Still better than nothing lol

Why do you say that a regular scion squad has 2 less special weapons than a scion command squad? They can both take four.

**Requizen**

JB wrote:
SonsofVulkan wrote:

Regular scion squads hits no where as hard as a CS with 2 less special weapons and not very cost effective for suicide drop purposes. Still better than nothing lol

Why do you say that a regular scion squad has 2 less special weapons than a scion command squad? They can both take four.

Yeah we may very well see more maxed out Scion squads now for those 4 specials. Plus, bullet catchers are always nice.