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 TillForPie wrote:
Is the chimera worth running? I'm considering getting the AM battleforce to supplement the SC box I already have and I'd rather not get a useless vehicle on top of two useless commisars.

Most people on here tend to think the Chimera is overpriced, which it may very well be, however, in all of the games I've tried them out in, they have done a remarkable job keeping my squishy infantry alive. It is kind of an odd duck in that we could just issue MMM! to get our infantry running just as fast as the Chimera and save all those points for 2 more squads of infantry. I suppose it depends on your playstyle and meta. They are quite fun to use and offer interesting tactical options. Most would probably just rather have 20 more bodies, however.

joshuafalcon wrote:
10 Rough Riders have the following attacks on the charge:

11x WS4+ Str5 AP-2 D3 each wound
10x WS4+ Str3 chainsword
10x WS4+ Str3 Trampling Hooves

Can easily take out chaff units.

The rules state if you have more than one melee weapon (in this case a chainsword and a lance) you have to choose which melee weapon you will use for each attack you have. The Sergeant for example has two attacks, so you could split his attacks- one with the lance and one with the chainsword (and since using a chainsword gives you an extra attack you’d have a 2nd chainsword attack).

The trampling hooves are additional attacks coming from the steed so those are good.

On average:
With 10 Riders on the charge vs MEQ you’ll be taking out 3 models.
With 10 Riders on the charge vs 2-wound models you’ll be taking out the 3 models as well due to the average 2 wounds per hit.
Which is why I always try to charge TEQ or other 2-wound models.

I thought the consensus for chainswords was you could use them for an additional attack without using them for your primary attacks as well, much like Tyranids with tail and head weapons use them as additional attacks to their claw attacks rather than instead or forcing them to make extra attacks with such?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact the entry is pretty specific 'Each time the model fights, it may make an additional attack with this weapon.'

Index Imperium, page 18.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I thought the consensus for chainswords was you could use them for an additional attack without using them for your primary attacks as well, much like Tyranids with tail and head weapons use them as additional attacks to their claw attacks rather than instead or forcing them to make extra attacks with such?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact the entry is pretty specific 'Each time the model fights, it may make an additional attack with this weapon.'

Index Imperium, page 18.

Perhaps I am interpreting the rules wrong. My understanding is - the BRB says choose a weapon for your attack, if you choose the chainsword, the chainsword specific rule states you get an extra attack using it.

If I’m wrong and it’s as you say, then I’d certainly like consensus since that would be a great advantage.

That is how I interpreted it. You have to select to use an attack with the chainsword, which would then grant you an additional attack.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748686.page

I’ve read your argument, here is the problem:

“If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.”

The converse is also true-

if a model has more than one melee weapon but can only make one close combat attack it cannot split it its attacks between these weapons.

It is either / or, it cannot be both which is what is being implied to the chainsword. The chainsword extra attack only holds true for using the chainsword.

So not sure if anyone else has had a chance to use Marbo with his new rules yet. I've been playing him with the 65pt cost GW posted on their Facebook post.

So far, it's looking like the best ability use is between the stalk with knife and detonating concealed explosives. Stalk with knife has a better chance of killing things like eldar rangers or cheap backfield objective holders, while concealed explosives helps draw heat away from other units and hit 10 man elite units like space marines or vehicles. Snipe with pistol pistol hasn't had an opportunity to be useful yet but I could see it being powerful against eldar or IG characters.

One tip I realized upon using him. When you drop him in the backfield, I've seen people have a tendency to sick a character after him once they realize his attacks have no AP. Since Marbo is catachan, he's actually a good choice for the vicious traps stratagem. Essentially you get an extra "concealed explosives" attempt as they charge in. Using this gives you a good chance of wounding most characters to the point marbo can kill them if he survives the opponents charge. Not really game winning in and of itself, but if you combined this with "snipe with pistol" you could take down most average generic characters, or at least seriously bloody them. A niche tactic to be sure, but something to keep in mind.

How are you guys adapting to ITC Champions missions? I've gotten about six games in with those missions and it feels like AM loses a lot of its advantages compared to normal 40k. The fact that 25% of the primary points are like playing a miniature round of No Mercy really hurts.

Add in things like Tank Commanders and Pask offering up an easy four or five points (Kingslayer + BGH + Primary if it's their first kill of the turn) and it feels like unit selection gets even more limited.

Scions have been next to useless since they feed my enemy so many kill points. Even if I trade up on raw points value, it's still a trade that benefits my opponent in terms of winning the game. Scout Sentinels and Ratlings have similarly just been feeding easy points even if the DS denial is amazing.

I'm seriously considering switching my LVO army to Nids because I'm running out of ideas.

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve read your argument, here is the problem:

“If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.”

The converse is also true-

if a model has more than one melee weapon but can only make one close combat attack it cannot split it its attacks between these weapons.

It is either / or, it cannot be both which is what is being implied to the chainsword. The chainsword extra attack only holds true for using the chainsword.

The chainsword rules are:
Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon

It clearly says fights, not attacks with this weapon. The extra chainsword attack is free and in addition, RAW.

RogueApiary wrote:
How are you guys adapting to ITC Champions missions? I've gotten about six games in with those missions and it feels like AM loses a lot of its advantages compared to normal 40k. The fact that 25% of the primary points are like playing a miniature round of No Mercy really hurts.

Add in things like Tank Commanders and Pask offering up an easy four or five points (Kingslayer + BGH + Primary if it's their first kill of the turn) and it feels like unit selection gets even more limited.

Scions have been next to useless since they feed my enemy so many kill points. Even if I trade up on raw points value, it's still a trade that benefits my opponent in terms of winning the game. Scout Sentinels and Ratlings have similarly just been feeding easy points even if the DS denial is amazing.

I'm seriously considering switching my LVO army to Nids because I'm running out of ideas.

We are hurt bad by kill the most but if we go 2nd it's easy to equal things out with holding more objectives. If we go 1st we have an extremely punishing alpha strike.

Don't take tank commanders. As long as they are avoided BGH is the only thing we need to worry about. Infantry squads are 9 models with a heavy weapon team and are immune to the reaper. I'm diversifying between infantry and vehicles with 2 Russ, 3 basilisks, and the rest of the army is not vehicles.

 davidgr33n wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
Actually, the Codex Hellhounds all explode on a 6+, but I haven’t seen any erratas for it.
The FW Artemia pattern Hellhound explodes on a 4+ and causes D6 mortal wounds rather than the D3 mortal wounds of the Codex versions. It’s the main reason I use them, they go into the middle of my opponents lines flaming everything up and daring them to charge into it.

Codex Hellhounds explode on 4+. "Add two to any results in the case of the Hellhound". Ergo Explodes on a 4+. Devil Dog and Bane Wolf still only explode on a 6+. Thats why I put the Devil Dog in the middle.

The problem is that the Index Hellhound rules are superseded by the Codex Hellhound rules, which does not include that verbiage. They all explode on a 6 now.
(I have the digital “Enhanced Version” of the Codex, which hasn’t always been correct, so if my digital copy is wrong I’d be happy to know).

I'm afraid it's +2 to all explosion in 2 different versions of the codex I've seen (one hard copy, one black library softcopy version).

I actually used tallarn ambush on a unit of 3 this weekend (two hell hounds (inferno cannon and hull-multimelta), one Devil Dog(melta cannon and hull HB)) They hit hard but explode harder. I used play orks so I kind of enjoy the insanity of three promethium filled vehicles rocking up far too close for comfort.

I won the role to go first. I brought the unit of flamebelching vehicles on as close to my opponents front line as possible . Shot all the Melta weapons at my opponents Pask (we were playing Guard V Guard) and the inferno cannons at nearby infantry. One point to note is that keeping all three vehicles 9" away from enemy units, within 7" of the board and within 6" of each other means its unlikely they all get within firing range especially if the enemy has deployed in a gunline in their deployment zone.

On my opponents turn One Hellhound was brought down to 1 wound after my opponents shooting phase with what I think was pretty average shooting.

In my next turn I then messed up by trying to move and advance the damaged Hellhound into explosion range of my opponents Pask but its 4" movement and pathetic advance meant he was too far. I should have just moved him the 4" and then used the inferno cannon on some nearby infantry but I'm not used of using flamers and their associated benefits (auto hit )

I intentionally moved the two undamaged Hellhound and Devil Dog at least 6" away from the soon to explode Hellhound. Unfortunately I then charged the Devil Dog into a company commander (in my mind so it couldn't be shot in my opponents shooting phase) but this brought the devil dog within 6" of the damaged Hellhound which obviously exploded the next turn. The explosion only caused 1 mortal wounds but it meant a lesson was learned.

My take aways were

1) Ambush is not as good as Deep strike. The 9" away from enemy units, within 7" of the board and within 6" of each other, is restrictive but not world ending.
2) The Devil Dog should be kept in the middle so that in the case the center vehicle is destroyed the two neighboring vehicles either side are only hit on a roll of 6
3) Hellhounds are just as accurate with 1 wound as 12 thanks to their flamers
4) Ambush is a great way of getting melta guns within 12" of the enemy.
5) Resist the temptation to Ambush on the first turn. If I'd waited for my opponent to move out of his deployment I could have thrown my Hellhounds into the middle of his troops rather than infront of (although to be fair VERY close to) his gunline.
6) Maybe pop smoke with all three hellhounds variants turn one. My opponent didn't shoot at a single other thing the turn they arrived. I could also have ambushed them close to an astropath. If I gave the devil dog an additional -1 to hit it would probably maintain its ability to shoot and hit with its melta cannon on 4+.
7) Maybe make the hellhounds cheaper by giving them hullmounted HB rather than the 20 point melta guns.
8) Don't charge a Devil Dog into close combat (and therefor within 6" of a soon to explode Hellhoung) like an idiot.
9) Keep a CP for the explode role.
10) Take the grand Strategist trait not only for the 5+ regain of CP but also the one free reroll per battle. Its not a CP so can be used in the same phase, but not to reroll a reroll (in this case I used a CP to reroll the explode on a 4+ and then the grand strategist reroll for the number of mortal wounds... it meant that despite the hellhound exploding even after a reroll I still only took 1 mortal wound)

 Niiai wrote:

 Zuri Prime wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Tank commanders can not command characters. Tank commanders are characters. I don't know where it sais that. I hope that helps, although somebody can chime in with the quote.

I stil wanne know how to make cheap heavy weapon teams.

The codex says the TC can command a friendly <regiment> Leman Russ within 6" to give it an order, there is nothing preventing the TC from ordering itself.

is there not a non character clause erataed on?

TC ruling is weird. They rolled it back to the original language. GW confirmed that this was not a mistake.

 schadenfreude wrote:



Don't take tank commanders. As long as they are avoided BGH is the only thing we need to worry about. Infantry squads are 9 models with a heavy weapon team and are immune to the reaper. I'm diversifying between infantry and vehicles with 2 Russ, 3 basilisks, and the rest of the army is not vehicles.

Damn son I didn't even think of the whole bringing the number of models down to 9 by creating a heavy weapon team. Very sneaky. Tank Commanders/Pask are a far too juicy target in ITC. I'm swapping out Pask for Celestine (she will not be my warlord)

I have been using the combine squad stratagem per turn to limit the number of full units my opponent can kill. The moral check on a d3 stratagem is also pretty good at keeping units alive. While these won't gain you points they may prevent your opponent from getting 2 (did you kill a full unit, did you kill more than your opponent).

The ITC missions are different but I think they are pretty cool. A couple more layers of strategy. AMs selection of cheap objective holding infantry and cheap deep striking/ambushing units means recon is a great secondary.

General question: Have people found artillery in general to be effective?

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
General question: Have people found artillery in general to be effective?

Very. I mean it’s utility depends on terrain, but good terrain makes it really useful

Hm, maybe it's just how I've rolled recently, but they haven't really put much wounds out compared to my tanks.

I run catachan with harker, two manticores and one basi. Very little can withstand a turn of shooting from this combo.

I was just wondering, when it comes to armies that have a -1 to hit, does that mean I get to re-roll all 2s and 1s if harker is within 6". Its a stretch I know but I'm just looking for some clarity.

You reroll before modifiers are applied.

Screw two thin coats.

Two Plastic Manticores. That's what an AM man needs.

Re-rolls occur before modifiers. As I understand

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Screw two thin coats.

Two Plastic Manticores. That's what an AM man needs.

i asked my buddy if I should cut my sponsons on my baneblade.... he responded “ you should drop your manticores, preferably into a fire.

Sounds like a non-am player.

AM Artillery is really strong. Manticores are -2 AP, which is good and their 'limitation' is the 4 shots per game, but what game isn't done after 4 turns?

Eh, to me, Marbo looks like a discount Eversor. I don't see him outperforming these skull guys.

I will still probably field him one day. I mean, c'mon. He's Sly F-[censored by Comissariat and Inquisition]-' Marbo.

Perhaps he could team up with an Eversor...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCMNWAJiz5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pywjdJ7P-7o

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Sounds like a non-am player.

AM Artillery is really strong. Manticores are -2 AP, which is good and their 'limitation' is the 4 shots per game, but what game isn't done after 4 turns?

ITC missions tend to go the full 6 so Basilisks have an advantage there. After the 4th turn the Manticores end up blocking, charging and sometimes even holding objectives.

I just acquired 2 Tauros Venators. I absolutely love the look of them and cannot wait to get them painted. Anybody have any experience with them? I made up a chart comparing them to Scout and Armored Sentinels and HWTs. They are all quite difficult to gauge effectiveness.

CaptainO wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:



Don't take tank commanders. As long as they are avoided BGH is the only thing we need to worry about. Infantry squads are 9 models with a heavy weapon team and are immune to the reaper. I'm diversifying between infantry and vehicles with 2 Russ, 3 basilisks, and the rest of the army is not vehicles.

Damn son I didn't even think of the whole bringing the number of models down to 9 by creating a heavy weapon team. Very sneaky. Tank Commanders/Pask are a far too juicy target in ITC. I'm swapping out Pask for Celestine (she will not be my warlord)

I have been using the combine squad stratagem per turn to limit the number of full units my opponent can kill. The moral check on a d3 stratagem is also pretty good at keeping units alive. While these won't gain you points they may prevent your opponent from getting 2 (did you kill a full unit, did you kill more than your opponent).

The ITC missions are different but I think they are pretty cool. A couple more layers of strategy. AMs selection of cheap objective holding infantry and cheap deep striking/ambushing units means recon is a great secondary.

Yea Recon is free points. Lots of cheap reserves and 14-24" move on infantry when they MMM.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
I just acquired 2 Tauros Venators. I absolutely love the look of them and cannot wait to get them painted. Anybody have any experience with them? I made up a chart comparing them to Scout and Armored Sentinels and HWTs. They are all quite difficult to gauge effectiveness.

I love them too. Biggest advantage in my eyes, is the deep strike and not suffering the -1 to hit after moving. I wouldn’t compare them to Sentinels though, cos I feel they fill different roles. Sentinels to me are all about being setup on the table and using the scout move to control ground, whereas the Venators are all about fast anti-tank, able to be pretty much wherever you need them.

I'm rethinking my 3 elites choices for a Cadian brigade.

Astropaths are still cost effective even after they went up to 30 points, but their powers can be negated by good target priority. I have so many units it doesn't make any sense to shoot at the one with psychic buffs. Leman Russ has a 2+ and or a -1 to hit fine just blow up the basilisks instead. Those awesome powers don't really kick in until turn 3 or 4 when there is not plenty of other targets and IMO turns 1 and 2 are more important. If the dakka is savage enough in the first couple of turns the dead units don't shoot back.

The Ogre body guard is a good counter assault unit, but only 1 can take the relic and on a point for point basis we have another unit that hits harder at close range.

SWS hit the hardest for the least amount of points. Hid them out of LOS and wait for units to come towards vulnerable back line units so pretty much the same tactic as a cyclops. 2 squads are double plasma and demo charge, the 3rd is triple demo charge that I'll sink a CP into. I was running 5 cyclops before the nerf now it’s 2 and SWS. It's not as good as the pre nerf 40 point cyclops, but that was stupid OP and now I have points freed up with my elites spending totalling to 125 points.

The elites slot took the biggest beating in nerfs. When the index dropped, we were excited to have a great range of elites. A lot of them got at least a taste of the nerf bat:
Astropaths doubled in price
Command squads became tied to officers, plus the plasma/melta price hike
Veterans had the plasma/melta price hike
Ratlings even went up in price

There is good stuff there still, but it's not as much of a strength as it was in the summer. I really like the MoO with basilisks (I run catachan a lot), and I like Harker (ditto). The astropath still cancels cover, which can be clutch.