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2018/01/30 01:13:06
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I did well at LVO this year and came in 24th place. There were a lot of AM lists that did better than me. I was going to post them all but "best" coast pairings crashed again and all the information they had from the championships is either down temporarily or lost forever
Michael Brant's list is in the top 10. It's a tiny bit more BA than AM but almost equal. His list has great synergy. It's basily Catachan double bubble +2 attack with a ton of mortars, BA scouts, and Sanguinary guard with lots of buffing characters forming on hell of a beatstick. Blood Angels are CP thirsty beasts that gobble up the 9 CP that the catachans bring to the table. I tried something similar with death guard and my experience is this is one hell of a wombo combo, but it is not easy to use and takes some skill.
Here is his list.
Spoiler:
Catachan Brigade
Straken
2 company commanders with power swords
10 infantry squads with mortars
3 multi laser scout sentinels
3 mortar HWS 2 platoon commanders 1 with a fist and 1 with a power sword
1 priest
There was another catachan list in the top 20. I talked to the guy and he has been running catachans since they first came out during rogue trader/2nd edition. It was an interesting list that was primarily catachan with a few SM scouts mixed in on top of ratlings but i don't remember all the details. He had massive board control but I don't think others would be able to copy his list. the list appeared odd and not everything had an obvious place or function which means the guy figured a use and a place for everything in his list over a lot of games which probably makes him a bit unpredictable by his opponent.
There was another cadian list that had sentinel power lifters. I wish I could link it and am very disappointed in best coast pairings.
Anyhow here is my list.
Spoiler:
Warlord Trait superior tactical training
Relics Laurels of command, lost relic of Cadia
Cadian Brigade
3 Company commanders and one of them is the warlord
6 infantry squads with plasma guns and lascannons
3 rough rider squads with 2 plasma
5 mortar HWS 2 SWS with 2 plasma and 1 demo
1 SWS with 3 demo charges
Cadian Spearhead
1 Company commander
2 Leman Russ executioners with plasma sponson, lascannon, storm bolter.
3 Basilisks
1 mortar HWS
Elysian Vanguard
1 company commander
6 sniper teams
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/30 01:15:06
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
2018/01/30 08:22:50
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Like the list - glad to see someone else using the double plasma rough riders! If you'd have time for a quick run through of your match ups and how they went it'd be really interesting
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2018/01/30 11:49:44
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Tiberius501 wrote: Would a full army of Militarum Tempestus work in 8th ed? Taurox Primes, Scions, Valkyries
I think it can work, might not necessarily be the best though. Taurox primes shred infantry well enough and the scions melt the bigger stuff. It'll lack staying power though, which is patched up with tanks and guard squads in regular lists
2018/01/30 13:34:29
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Tiberius501 wrote: Would a full army of Militarum Tempestus work in 8th ed? Taurox Primes, Scions, Valkyries
I think it can work, might not necessarily be the best though. Taurox primes shred infantry well enough and the scions melt the bigger stuff. It'll lack staying power though, which is patched up with tanks and guard squads in regular lists
I run a majority of Scions for my lists, but even then i still have a good chunk of leman russes and mortars with bog standard infantry backing them up. I usually have a small gun line that doesn't worry about objectives then I have my Scions do all the heavy lifting.
2018/01/30 14:49:41
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
schadenfreude wrote: I did well at LVO this year and came in 24th place. There were a lot of AM lists that did better than me. I was going to post them all but "best" coast pairings crashed again and all the information they had from the championships is either down temporarily or lost forever
Michael Brant's list is in the top 10. It's a tiny bit more BA than AM but almost equal. His list has great synergy. It's basily Catachan double bubble +2 attack with a ton of mortars, BA scouts, and Sanguinary guard with lots of buffing characters forming on hell of a beatstick. Blood Angels are CP thirsty beasts that gobble up the 9 CP that the catachans bring to the table. I tried something similar with death guard and my experience is this is one hell of a wombo combo, but it is not easy to use and takes some skill.
Here is his list.
Spoiler:
Catachan Brigade
Straken
2 company commanders with power swords
10 infantry squads with mortars
3 multi laser scout sentinels
3 mortar HWS 2 platoon commanders 1 with a fist and 1 with a power sword
1 priest
There was another catachan list in the top 20. I talked to the guy and he has been running catachans since they first came out during rogue trader/2nd edition. It was an interesting list that was primarily catachan with a few SM scouts mixed in on top of ratlings but i don't remember all the details. He had massive board control but I don't think others would be able to copy his list. the list appeared odd and not everything had an obvious place or function which means the guy figured a use and a place for everything in his list over a lot of games which probably makes him a bit unpredictable by his opponent.
There was another cadian list that had sentinel power lifters. I wish I could link it and am very disappointed in best coast pairings.
Anyhow here is my list.
Spoiler:
Warlord Trait superior tactical training
Relics Laurels of command, lost relic of Cadia
Cadian Brigade
3 Company commanders and one of them is the warlord
6 infantry squads with plasma guns and lascannons
3 rough rider squads with 2 plasma
5 mortar HWS 2 SWS with 2 plasma and 1 demo
1 SWS with 3 demo charges
Cadian Spearhead
1 Company commander
2 Leman Russ executioners with plasma sponson, lascannon, storm bolter.
3 Basilisks
1 mortar HWS
Elysian Vanguard
1 company commander
6 sniper teams
Congrats on the good placement buddy!
Do you mind telling me how well Imperial Guard superheavies did? I am looking for data comparing them to Magnus, Mortarion, the other superheavies, you know. Monoliths, knights, etc.
2018/01/30 15:50:36
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
My match ups were
Tau
Death watch
Nids
Genestealer cult
Grey knights
Eldar
Lost agaist the genestealer cult because I wasn't in the zone and made a terrible mistake during turn 1 movement. I think I could have easily beaten him in the same scenario again if I was more aggressive with my cannon fodder and denied access to a building. That being said I probably would have gone down in flames in game 6 after running into a big fish that's better than me.
I only went 1st in 2 games genestealer and eldar. I won the roll to go 1st agaist grey knights but chose to go 2nd.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tallaran came in 18th place.
2 Primaris
Company Commander with Kurov
15 Artema pattern hell hounds with 14MM 1HB
Blood angels
Librarian
Tech marine
3 scouts
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/30 16:14:34
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
2018/01/30 16:41:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
My match ups were
Tau
Death watch
Nids
Genestealer cult
Grey knights
Eldar
Lost agaist the genestealer cult because I wasn't in the zone and made a terrible mistake during turn 1 movement. I think I could have easily beaten him in the same scenario again if I was more aggressive with my cannon fodder and denied access to a building. That being said I probably would have gone down in flames in game 6 after running into a big fish that's better than me.
I only went 1st in 2 games genestealer and eldar. I won the roll to go 1st agaist grey knights but chose to go 2nd.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tallaran came in 18th place.
2 Primaris
Company Commander with Kurov
15 Artema pattern hell hounds with 14MM 1HB
Blood angels
Librarian
Tech marine
3 scouts
Ouch, one Shadowsword (the best superheavy by far) came in 25th. I bet that there were other LOWs that did way better, though without access to the lists I have no idea.
2018/01/30 17:30:43
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
My match ups were
Tau
Death watch
Nids
Genestealer cult
Grey knights
Eldar
Lost agaist the genestealer cult because I wasn't in the zone and made a terrible mistake during turn 1 movement. I think I could have easily beaten him in the same scenario again if I was more aggressive with my cannon fodder and denied access to a building. That being said I probably would have gone down in flames in game 6 after running into a big fish that's better than me.
I only went 1st in 2 games genestealer and eldar. I won the roll to go 1st agaist grey knights but chose to go 2nd.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Tallaran came in 18th place.
2 Primaris
Company Commander with Kurov
15 Artema pattern hell hounds with 14MM 1HB
Blood angels
Librarian
Tech marine
3 scouts
Any idea why he brought the Techmarine other than to fill out a HQ slot for a Battalion? They can only repair <chapter> vehicles not AM.
I can only imagine 15 Artema hellhounds are a nightmare to deal with.
2018/01/30 18:24:58
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Not sure what you'd bring in a Blood Angels detachment that is anywhere related to "Techmarine".
I thought initially the OP may have meant there was a Techpriest with the Tallarn detachment but then the BA detachment wouldn't have battle forged. I would have thought a lieutenant would synergize better with the scouts.
I do hope he wasn't healing any Hellhounds...
2018/01/30 19:58:45
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
#19 Mark Parker was the other Catachan player
Battalion
2 leman russ tank commanders battle cannon, plasma sides, lascannon
3 infantry with mortars
3 by 5 ratlings
2 cyclops
Vanguard
2 more tank commanders battle cannon, plasma sides, las cannon
3 units of ratlings numbering 9,9, and 8
Blood angels battalion
Captain jump pack storm shield thunder hammer
Techmarine
3 scouts 5,5,and 10
I'm not sure why 2 lists are running tech marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/30 19:59:37
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
2018/01/30 20:17:53
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I have the BA Codex. From a skim over both the Lieutenant and Techmarine actually cost the same when you take into account the kit that comes with the Techmarine. Techmarine gives 1 x s8 D3 CC attacks and two at s4 (both AP-2)
A lieutenant would give 1 more attack, all of them at s4 but gives reroll wounds of 1 to all nearby BA units. I suppose with only 3 scouts units this is less useful...
2018/01/30 20:24:21
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
CaptainO wrote: I have the BA Codex. From a skim over both the Lieutenant and Techmarine actually cost the same when you take into account the kit that comes with the Techmarine. Techmarine gives 1 x s8 D3 CC attacks and two at s4 (both AP-2)
A lieutenant would give 1 more attack, all of them at s4 but gives reroll wounds of 1 to all nearby BA units. I suppose with only 3 scouts units this is less useful...
Yeah, a techmarine might be the least-usless HQ in this situation, even though he's pretty useless.
2018/01/31 01:49:51
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Supreme command
Straken
2 company commanders with fists
Shadowsword 4 lascannons 4 heavy flamers
Battalion
Celestine
Primaris
3 scout squads
Battalion
Primaris
2 tempestor primes
Harker
Priest
2 scion command squads with plasma guns
6 infantry squads with flamers, HB, and power swords
3 HWS with mortars.
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
2018/01/31 18:09:06
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: How do you model your Conquerors ? Looking at my index, I can't see any reason not to take them instead of standard Russes.
Am I right ?
48" range is the biggest reason not to. Sometimes you need to snipe a squad holding an objective in the enemy backfield and 48" just doesn't cut it.
I've personally found my LR's to rarely engage at the Conqueror's ideal 24" or less range, typically trading shots with enemy Arty or tanks. But I also run Cadian so I try not to move my LR's if I can help it.
2018/01/31 22:50:31
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
godardc wrote: How do you model your Conquerors ? Looking at my index, I can't see any reason not to take them instead of standard Russes.
Am I right ?
I used one at the LVO narrative, the only time I found myself out of range is when we played the apocalypse game and had two tables together. Below is a picture of mine. I had an older russ that has a stowage unit on the left side. I modified an onager heavy stubber to be the storm bolter.
2018/02/01 03:15:32
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I run Tallarn with Sisters and have a Tank Commander Punisher (with 3 Heavy Bolters and a Stormbolter) outflank. After shooting I’ll use a Tank Order to move 6” closer to a shooty opponent unit, then use the Crush Them stratagem to charge the unit (typically only a 3” charge and hitting on 2s). This gives our tanks coming in from the outflank 7”, then a 6” move followed by the charge.
I tried this against two opponents this past weekend, caught them totally by surprise and in both cases worked out to my advantage. The main thing is to charge a non-flying shooting unit that you need to not shoot next turn and will likely disengage on their turn.
Of course you have to be careful of placement and support for the following opponents turn, but If your opponent disengages and charges you on their turn, I use the Defensive Gunners Stratagem to shoot 33 shots (hitting on 5s and 6s) back at them on overwatch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/01 03:20:50
2018/02/01 08:53:23
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I run Tallarn with Sisters and have a Tank Commander Punisher (with 3 Heavy Bolters and a Stormbolter) outflank. After shooting I’ll use a Tank Order to move 6” closer to a shooty opponent unit, then use the Crush Them stratagem to charge the unit (typically only a 3” charge and hitting on 2s). This gives our tanks coming in from the outflank 7”, then a 6” move followed by the charge.
I tried this against two opponents this past weekend, caught them totally by surprise and in both cases worked out to my advantage. The main thing is to charge a non-flying shooting unit that you need to not shoot next turn and will likely disengage on their turn.
Of course you have to be careful of placement and support for the following opponents turn, but If your opponent disengages and charges you on their turn, I use the Defensive Gunners Stratagem to shoot 33 shots (hitting on 5s and 6s) back at them on overwatch.
Orders happen at the start of the shooting phase don't they? So you can't shoot and then move
2018/02/01 12:37:48
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I run Tallarn with Sisters and have a Tank Commander Punisher (with 3 Heavy Bolters and a Stormbolter) outflank. After shooting I’ll use a Tank Order to move 6” closer to a shooty opponent unit, then use the Crush Them stratagem to charge the unit (typically only a 3” charge and hitting on 2s). This gives our tanks coming in from the outflank 7”, then a 6” move followed by the charge.
I tried this against two opponents this past weekend, caught them totally by surprise and in both cases worked out to my advantage. The main thing is to charge a non-flying shooting unit that you need to not shoot next turn and will likely disengage on their turn.
Of course you have to be careful of placement and support for the following opponents turn, but If your opponent disengages and charges you on their turn, I use the Defensive Gunners Stratagem to shoot 33 shots (hitting on 5s and 6s) back at them on overwatch.
Orders happen at the start of the shooting phase don't they? So you can't shoot and then move
The order allows the unit to either move and shoot, or shoot and move. You get the choice.
2018/02/01 13:55:47
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I run Tallarn with Sisters and have a Tank Commander Punisher (with 3 Heavy Bolters and a Stormbolter) outflank. After shooting I’ll use a Tank Order to move 6” closer to a shooty opponent unit, then use the Crush Them stratagem to charge the unit (typically only a 3” charge and hitting on 2s). This gives our tanks coming in from the outflank 7”, then a 6” move followed by the charge.
I tried this against two opponents this past weekend, caught them totally by surprise and in both cases worked out to my advantage. The main thing is to charge a non-flying shooting unit that you need to not shoot next turn and will likely disengage on their turn.
Of course you have to be careful of placement and support for the following opponents turn, but If your opponent disengages and charges you on their turn, I use the Defensive Gunners Stratagem to shoot 33 shots (hitting on 5s and 6s) back at them on overwatch.
Very cool idea. I like it a lot. Tallarn are definitely the most unique AM. Its hard not to like them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know the HB are the cheapest but attaching a Heavy flamer to the hull would make it even less appealing to charge.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could also combine the Defensive gunner stratagem with Vengance for cadia (if its Chaos charging you) for a 55% chance of hitting...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Technically you could use Vengance for Cadia in your shooting phase and then again in the Chaos players charge phase.
That would be a total of 7 command points for one unit though... 3 for ambush, 1 for vengeance for Cadia in your shooting phase, 1 for crush them, 1 for vengeance for cadia in the chaos players assault phase and 1 for defencive gunners.
Best take that grand strategist warlord trait I suppose...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/01 17:11:43
2018/02/02 05:19:06
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Are Melta Scions still worth it? I was dubious about them before the price hike, and afterwards I dropped them from my list, but I've found that my list doesn't have as much anti-vehicle firepower as I'd like, and I'm going to be phasing out the anti-vehicle tauroxes (ML + AC), and I need to find anti-tank somewhere.
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and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 
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