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I'm stoked ! Less then yesterday but still a lot. The Coven of Twelve with the +1 AP trait looks appealing, I can see myself playing Kabals for the speed and anti-armour, and Covens for dealing with units with good saves.

Wondering how to use the Administer Punishment stratagem, though. Best for when the opponent tries to protect a unit from shooting ? It looks fun but from here I can hardly see how to use it effectively. Any input from more experienced players ?

The Dark Creed's stratagem to target Characters looks nice on paper too. Let's see if they improved the Coven's big monsters though, they're the ones with good ranged weaponry in the sub-faction.

Also, looks like we'll be drowning in CPs, I'm pleased. Let's see if there's more stratagems to abuse !

Loving the coven preview today! Respawning wracks is going to be cool.

 Fafnir wrote:
The negative leadership penalties are cool, and sound like they'd be fun to build around, but I doubt it'll be efficient enough to justify the investment, especially when everyone and their dog is immune to leadership anyway. In a fun list, that would likely be my go-to for a coven, but the 4++ just seems way too good to pass up.

Very few units are actually immune to LD. Most just have LD high enough to make it pretty irrelevant in small squads.

But not when you can pretty trivially stack up -5 to -7LD on a unit.

This trait is going to be the gold standard on allied detachments tacked onto Eldar Soup lists. Take a FW Reaper to use the sniper strat. A couple of Raiders full of goodness to create -3LD bombs. Then add in the rest of the list with Farseers, Hemlocks, and other LD busting units and you've got a pretty killer list.

While i think the leadership reduction is fun and can be taken advantage of in an Eldar soup list, i don't think it'll be that competitive. Chaos currently have something similar, but it's never been that effective, and to soup in other Eldar you'll be dropping the chance of getting the 3 warlord traits in matched play.

Not convinced by the 2CP refresh a unit stratagem either. Wrack can currently only go up to 10 models in a unit. It's a lot of CP to bring back up to 9 4++ models.

Ld modifiers are worth very little against hordes. They're far more valuable against units with expensive individual models.

The problem with hordes is that, even in the best-case scenario, a -1 Ld modifier is worth only 1/2 a kill. For every model you actually kill, the unit is down a model and they're testing morale at -1, which at best causes another model to run. Compare this to an ability like "re-roll 1s to hit". If your unit can kill 3 GEQs then this is already better than -1 Ld on one unit.

And that's assuming that they had to test morale at all, and that they weren't already comfortably passing, and that you're not over-killing the unit. Say you've got a 10-man Ld 7 unit that's taken 3 casualties. With a -6 Ld modifier they're pretty boned -- on average, 5.33 more run away. Bumping up to a -7 modifier means that on average 6 run. That's 2/3 of a model and an 8% improvement in total casualties. If we're talking about Guardsmen, that's not great.

The problem is you can repeat this, asking whether it's worth doing whatever you have to do to get a -6 modifier instead of a -5, and also find that it's not worth it. And so on.

Hemlocks are a great bonus vs hordes because they're clearly not paying anything for a -2 Ld modifier and can project it over half of an army. Having to give up a 4++ and having to get within 6" is a big ask.

Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

Tyel wrote:
Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

I think a 4++ on a Talos helps a lot personally, should help me cover the ground I need much more reliably. I say that as the owner of a Corpse Thief Claw so I'm with you 100% in that I'm hoping there's more.

I'm slightly surprised they didn't give any information on specific units. Usually previews include something like "btw, this unit got a point reduction, or is better because of X", like scourges yesterday.
So I suspect no big change in the covens units.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

I think a 4++ on a Talos helps a lot personally, should help me cover the ground I need much more reliably. I say that as the owner of a Corpse Thief Claw so I'm with you 100% in that I'm hoping there's more.

Do you find them effective? I find they don't really scare anything in melee any more - be it Marines or tanks.

Tyel wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

I think a 4++ on a Talos helps a lot personally, should help me cover the ground I need much more reliably. I say that as the owner of a Corpse Thief Claw so I'm with you 100% in that I'm hoping there's more.

Do you find them effective? I find they don't really scare anything in melee any more - be it Marines or tanks.

Indeed. A Talos is going to need a lot more than a slightly better invulnerable save to be in any way worthwhile.

Tyel wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

I think a 4++ on a Talos helps a lot personally, should help me cover the ground I need much more reliably. I say that as the owner of a Corpse Thief Claw so I'm with you 100% in that I'm hoping there's more.

Do you find them effective? I find they don't really scare anything in melee any more - be it Marines or tanks.

No one knows.... we havent seen the codex datasheet for them yet.

42" ranged dark lances on mobile platforms seems good to me.

Some djukes during deployment. Land all your mobile lances in the same place. Move within range and start disect the opponents long ranged weapons. Just like the dark eldar intended.

Does this mean Rapid fire weapons also gain an extra 3"?

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Does this mean Rapid fire weapons also gain an extra 3"?

Yep, it mentions that in the article about them. I assume you're referring to the kabal trait?

There are no kabals with flamer weapons right?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
The negative leadership penalties are cool, and sound like they'd be fun to build around, but I doubt it'll be efficient enough to justify the investment, especially when everyone and their dog is immune to leadership anyway. In a fun list, that would likely be my go-to for a coven, but the 4++ just seems way too good to pass up.

Very few units are actually immune to LD. Most just have LD high enough to make it pretty irrelevant in small squads.

But not when you can pretty trivially stack up -5 to -7LD on a unit.

This trait is going to be the gold standard on allied detachments tacked onto Eldar Soup lists. Take a FW Reaper to use the sniper strat. A couple of Raiders full of goodness to create -3LD bombs. Then add in the rest of the list with Farseers, Hemlocks, and other LD busting units and you've got a pretty killer list.

It's doctrines and WL traits. I play necrons and iron warriors, both have auto pass WL traits. Dark angels and Iyandin will lose 1 dude. Tau auto pass on a 6... IDK then there is burning 2 cp to ignore all you hard work lol.

I do think a farseer using mindwar is filthy though.

 Niiai wrote:
There are no kabals with flamer weapons right?

Not unless the Shredder has magically gotten good.

 vipoid wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
There are no kabals with flamer weapons right?

Not unless the Shredder has magically gotten good.

O yee of little faith.

Shredder isnt nor was a flamer tho...

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Shredder isnt nor was a flamer tho...

I know. And that's one of the reasons why it's been awful every edition.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

I think a 4++ on a Talos helps a lot personally, should help me cover the ground I need much more reliably. I say that as the owner of a Corpse Thief Claw so I'm with you 100% in that I'm hoping there's more.

Agreed, that formation was pretty much always in my lists in 7th edition. I want my talos spam back

 vipoid wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Shredder isnt nor was a flamer tho...

I know. And that's one of the reasons why it's been awful every edition.

And given its similarity to Monofilament weapons, which were originally flamer weapons, and continue to be surprise that the Shredder isn't a flamer weapon.
That simple change would instantly make them viable.

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 Blackie wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Like the flavours (although I think 4++ will be hard to beat) - but the big worry here was the lack of a clear buff to Talos/Chronus.

I think a 4++ on a Talos helps a lot personally, should help me cover the ground I need much more reliably. I say that as the owner of a Corpse Thief Claw so I'm with you 100% in that I'm hoping there's more.

Agreed, that formation was pretty much always in my lists in 7th edition. I want my talos spam back

The Twelve will certainly help Grotesques and Talos out a little, lack of AP is one of their more significant flaws.

I honestly think the covens' obsessions are pretty good. The rest is kinda ok but nothing special. AP boost and inv. save boost are nice. To get the most of the inv. save i'd say grotesques and wracks would be the best to use. Probably best for use in numbers where you takes lots of saves. AP boost is decent on grotesques probably but ok-ish for wracks.

Nothing seems like a huge boost for talos/cronos though except maybe that shoot while you're in combat thing. I have to ask why they made auto-hits so horrible for that one command ability when you're in combat. Covens don't put out a lot of serious firepower that isn't auto-hit based. In that way maybe talos and cronos could be useful.

The up to -3 Ld stack is ok but you guys should keep in mind there are other negative LD modifiers far as i can tell. Phantasm probably does something as do some of the kabal's gear. It's a huge stack of melee units that need to be in range though.

4+ inv and AP-2 are a decent boost for both grotesques and talos (I play them regurarly even now ), and it's just the codex preview.

So, someone posted in the News and Rumours codex thread some info from the latest White Dwarf, which relates to the Wytch Cults.

Essentially 3 traits –
+1 Attack
+1 Strength
Advance and Charge

Now I can see why people have been hinting at Reavers. 220 points (currently) for 6 Reavers with 2 Blasters and 2 Grav Talons, moving 24” and then charging first turn. 2 or 3 units with +1 Attack, +1 WS and +2 move/+1 T are going to seem incredible hard to deal with if you get 1st turn with them.

NVRM i found the page.

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
The negative leadership penalties are cool, and sound like they'd be fun to build around, but I doubt it'll be efficient enough to justify the investment, especially when everyone and their dog is immune to leadership anyway. In a fun list, that would likely be my go-to for a coven, but the 4++ just seems way too good to pass up.

Very few units are actually immune to LD. Most just have LD high enough to make it pretty irrelevant in small squads.

But not when you can pretty trivially stack up -5 to -7LD on a unit.

This trait is going to be the gold standard on allied detachments tacked onto Eldar Soup lists. Take a FW Reaper to use the sniper strat. A couple of Raiders full of goodness to create -3LD bombs. Then add in the rest of the list with Farseers, Hemlocks, and other LD busting units and you've got a pretty killer list.

It's doctrines and WL traits. I play necrons and iron warriors, both have auto pass WL traits. Dark angels and Iyandin will lose 1 dude. Tau auto pass on a 6... IDK then there is burning 2 cp to ignore all you hard work lol.

I do think a farseer using mindwar is filthy though.

This is true, there exist some doctrines and traits to ignore. But, if it's a warlord trait, that's why Mind War is a thing, and if you're playing the LD-stack subfaction, you know that you have the character-snipe stratagem built in there. Bring your reaper along! (I'm not gonna lie, I am right now working on converting a spare Vauls Wrath Shadow Weaver onto a spare unpainted Raider to make myself a Reaper...)

As for doctrines, eh. Mind war is still likely to be your Big Money hit per turn, with the massive LD-dropping auras running around being more of a sideshow. Sure if you run up against a Lyanden wraith army and can only kill a max of one per squad that's not great..but as a bonus it does mean you're not playing against an Alaitoc eldar army, and removing one wraith isn't bad either, its one more than you'd be removing without a huge -LD bubble. Dark Angels are in a similar boat. They ignore your shenanigans, but at least you're removing one MEQ, and you also aren't playing against a more optimal trait...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/29/codex-drukhari-preview-wych-cultsgw-homepage-post-3/


1 more preview tomorrow

Cult of the Red Grief Reavers. 26" move + rerollable charge. Tasty
Hopefully they dropped in points too.

Am I understanding this correctly that the subfaction keywords for DE (like Craftworld attributes or Chapter Tactics) are "Obsessions" and there are 9 of them?
3 Kabals, 3 Wych Cults and 3 Covens?

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