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I think adding Ignores Cover to all IF shooting is pretty boss.

Do we know for sure if it applies to all <CHAPTER> models or only to Infantry, Bikers and Drednoughts?

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I think adding Ignores Cover to all IF shooting is pretty boss.

Do we know for sure if it applies to all <CHAPTER> models or only to Infantry, Bikers and Drednoughts?

its been asked on their Facebook page to confirm that the already powerful CT only effect Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts, Thats seems to be the case from the Ultramarines Focus but be good to be certain.

I figured as much, I was just wondering if it had been confirmed somewhere yet.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I figured as much, I was just wondering if it had been confirmed somewhere yet.

yeah it was mentioned that like all (or most cant remember) chapter tactics it only effects those 3

on a side note we haven't even see the strats yet. cant wait to see whats what.

 Desubot wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I figured as much, I was just wondering if it had been confirmed somewhere yet.

yeah it was mentioned that like all (or most cant remember) chapter tactics it only effects those 3

on a side note we haven't even see the strats yet. cant wait to see whats what.

or the Relics.....

Damn. I really want the Imperial Fists chapter tactics to apply to my Thunderfire Cannons.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Damn. I really want the Imperial Fists chapter tactics to apply to my Thunderfire Cannons.

Well it should apply to the gunner. It would be very unlike GW to give us any clarity on whether it applies to the gun he's firing. I guess we'll know that we need a FAQ soon

I'm reasonably pleased with the IF CT. I think it makes things like bolt rifles and heavy bolters into pretty effective options. Dreadnoughts with assault cannons, anvillus arrays and the like will also benefit quite a bit. It works more or less regardless of who you play against, or what you use - as long as you're shooting people and not fighting in CC.

I'm the only person I know who uses buildings. They are a good place to put centurions, and characters too if you want to reduce the number of drops you're using.

It will apply to the Gunner. But that doesn't extend to the Cannon. The same way that the Thunderfire Cannon fires at a 3+ despite the Gunner having a 2+ BS.

Ignore cover is going to be pretty great. No more getting bogged down by terrain for me. I have never seen anyone use a building yet, either in battle reports or in person. That portion is quite worthless. I would have preferred something that allowed us to take down big stuff better. I guess I will have to wait for Strategems. I reconfigured my list to get me an extra command point. My newly added Intercessors and Hellblasters are going to be great additions to my Sternguard with blowing up stuff all the way across the board.

Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

Mediocre as always offensively, deepstriking with flamers is no longer a thing either.

You could use them as a quick reaction force to jump in and hold up units charging a gunline, but you could spend 2 points more and get either a jump pack Vanguard Veteran or a Reiver, both of whom would do a much better job

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

They can deepstrike with 2 meltas or 2 plasma [EDIT: No they can't], but as stated, VV get +1A, +1LD, and better weapon options for 2 more points a head.

Ok but are they not-bad enough that using them isn't detrimental? I've got a box of them and would rather see them get some use than not. Would probably do the triple plasma pistol load-out.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok but are they not-bad enough that using them isn't detrimental? I've got a box of them and would rather see them get some use than not. Would probably do the triple plasma pistol load-out.

Every tool has its use, some tools are just better at their job than others. Assault marines are probably better at delivering some special weapons where you need them, when you need them. In this capacity, they're not bad at all. Just seems contrary to what you would think they're for. [Edit: They can't take Melta/Plasma, so they're really not useful for much]

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

They can deepstrike with 2 meltas or 2 plasma, but as stated, VV get +1A, +1LD, and better weapon options for 2 more points a head.

They can only take more than flamers and plasma pistols if you're a blood angel

GAdvance wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

They can deepstrike with 2 meltas or 2 plasma, but as stated, VV get +1A, +1LD, and better weapon options for 2 more points a head.

They can only take more than flamers and plasma pistols if you're a blood angel

Nah, the FAQ gave all SM [Edit: Nope, you're right, just BA] AM access to meltas and plasma.

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
flamer may take a meltagun or plasma gun instead
(replacing their bolt pistol and chainsword).’

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

GAdvance wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

They can deepstrike with 2 meltas or 2 plasma, but as stated, VV get +1A, +1LD, and better weapon options for 2 more points a head.

They can only take more than flamers and plasma pistols if you're a blood angel

Nah, the FAQ gave all SM AM access to meltas and plasma.

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
flamer may take a meltagun or plasma gun instead
(replacing their bolt pistol and chainsword).’

Page 89 is the blood angels wargear section, it is NOT for all SM chapters

GAdvance wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

GAdvance wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Anyone use Assault marines? How are they doing?

They can deepstrike with 2 meltas or 2 plasma, but as stated, VV get +1A, +1LD, and better weapon options for 2 more points a head.

They can only take more than flamers and plasma pistols if you're a blood angel

Nah, the FAQ gave all SM AM access to meltas and plasma.

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
flamer may take a meltagun or plasma gun instead
(replacing their bolt pistol and chainsword).’

Page 89 is the blood angels wargear section, it is NOT for all SM chapters

Well feth me, I'm dumb. Thanks.

[Edit] That being clarified, no, I don't think there's any real use for assault marines.

They can take 3 Plasma pistols though. Taking 5 man squads can be good for dropping onto an objective. They also can absorb a charge for your more elite or expensive combat units like Terminators and Characters.

With the new AP system is there even a point to taking combat shields on Assault Sarges, aside from rule of cool?

CaptainValtos wrote:
With the new AP system is there even a point to taking combat shields on Assault Sarges, aside from rule of cool?

5++ is pretty good really. It is cheap, so why not?

It's true that a 5++ for a model with a 3+ save is worth very little. It's only relevant against attacks with at least -3AP, and even then it only saves you 1/3 of the time.

The value of invulnerable saves is not at all constant. The nearer it is to your base save, the more often it will make a difference. Invulnerables on multi-wound models like tanks and dreadnoughts are worth a lot more than they are on infantry, because people will tend to fire guns like meltas and lascannons at them, and these guns tend to have a good AP.

So for example buying a 4++ for a Tau stormsurge is great, because it only has a 3+ save normally and will have big guns shot at it a lot. But a terminator's 5++ isn't that useful because its 2+ armour save will tend to give it at least a 5+ save even if it gets hit by pretty heavy weapons.

A 5++ on an assault sergeant is of very little value. You don't really want him tanking for his squad, so it's likely that you won't assign wounds to him until everyone else is dead. Most of the time you'll fail the 5++ and he'll die anyway. I'd only include it if I found myself with nothing else to spend the points on.

Is it just me or is the Raven Guard's stealth very good? Nid's can pull the same trick with a malanthrope, and he is mostly 90 points to do that one thing in a bubble.

I think Imperial fists will be very good IF they flesh out the cover rules or make it slightly easier to get (like giving it back for having intervening models). However right now, outside of a few bubble aura buffs, cover is just not that common for a unit to have.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok but are they not-bad enough that using them isn't detrimental? I've got a box of them and would rather see them get some use than not. Would probably do the triple plasma pistol load-out.

Honestly I see them as potential meat shields with Scouts.

I'm looking at being super aggressive with Black Templars or Minotaurs w/ Asterion. A minimum 5 man squad will Deep Strike in and have a 48% chance to make a charge with that reroll. That can enable catching larger threats so that everyone else is safe.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
Ok but are they not-bad enough that using them isn't detrimental? I've got a box of them and would rather see them get some use than not. Would probably do the triple plasma pistol load-out.

Just use them as Vanguard Vets with whatever weapon options you have available, at 2 pts per model that extra attack makes them actually worth taking with just bolt pistol and chainsword. Great unit for anti horde and can tie up shooting units.

Alright so this is my second iteration of a Minotaurs list. Let's see what it is! It is made up of 2 separate Vanguard Detachments, and clocks in at 1998 points with a paltry 2 Command Points.

HQ:
x1 Techmarine
. Power Axe, Bolt Pistol, Conversion Beamer
x1 Asterion Moloc

Troops:
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades, Combi-Melta
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades, Combi-Melta
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades, Combi-Melta

Elites:
x5 Tartaros Terminators
. 5 Pairs of Lightning Claws
x5 Assault Terminators
. 5 TH/SS
x5 Assault Terminators
. 5 TH/SS
x5 Vanguard
. 5 Bolt Pistols, 4 Chainswords, 1 Relic Blade, Melta Bomb
x5 Vanguard
. 5 Bolt Pistols, 4 Chainswords, 1 Relic Blade, Melta Bomb
x1 Relic Contemptor
. 1 Chainfist w/ Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter
x1 Relic Contemptor
. 1 Chainfist w/ Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter

Fast Attack:
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun
. Heavy Bolter

So the basic plan is to camp the Sentry Guns in cover with the Techmarine being near the largest grouping of them, if there is one. Contemptors will deploy as close as they can, and the Scouts will screen them. Then Asterion and his cronies will plop down, and with enough rerolls I can expect 2 or 3 squads to get a guaranteed charge from the drop.
I'm nervous, however, I don't have enough stuff for bigger units. I definitely loaded up on the Heavy Bolters as you could tell, but will the Assault Terminators and Vanguard be enough for bigger bads? If you're also wondering about the Tartaros Terminators being equipped with Claws, it is for three reasons:
1. The extra inch of movement gets them closer to hordes, plus;
2. They aren't as survivable as the TH variant, so I might as well go for shredding potential.
3. I was already in the process of building them that way.

Of course the codex is dropping this week (or next week?) so I don't know how Chapter Tactics will affect us.

Hmm seeing this talons of the Emp box on my desk i wonder how a land raider full of characters would do.

Captain, or chap with a bunch of company champions rolling up on 2s and multiple attacks. oh and a techmarine too.

 Leth wrote:
I think Imperial fists will be very good IF they flesh out the cover rules or make it slightly easier to get (like giving it back for having intervening models). However right now, outside of a few bubble aura buffs, cover is just not that common for a unit to have.

Until there are hardcoded rules in regard to the amount of cover that needs to be on the battlefield, there is nothing that will make their tactics anything but situational. And their bonus against buildings is less than worthless. No one takes buildings. Like at all. I have watched dozens of battle reports and watched/played in dozens of games, and never once has someone taken a building.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think Imperial fists will be very good IF they flesh out the cover rules or make it slightly easier to get (like giving it back for having intervening models). However right now, outside of a few bubble aura buffs, cover is just not that common for a unit to have.

Until there are hardcoded rules in regard to the amount of cover that needs to be on the battlefield, there is nothing that will make their tactics anything but situational. And their bonus against buildings is less than worthless. No one takes buildings. Like at all. I have watched dozens of battle reports and watched/played in dozens of games, and never once has someone taken a building.

Yeah, and if an enemy army was going to use cover and were facing IFs, they just wouldn't worry about it anymore and stand wherever they wanted. That is still better than nothing, but it's not amazing. Add to that that it doesn't effect tanks (the typical SM source of anti infantry--who are the main units that get cover) and it gets even worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It does counter the space wolf cover power though, so that's something lol.