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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
10 Man Sternguard Squad. All Special Issue Boltguns. Comes in at 190 pts. Park them within 15" of something you want dead. Use Bolter Drill (1CP) and Masterful Marksmanship (1CP) on the Sternguard Squad. Drink your opponent's tears.

How about storm bolters? Need to be within 12" but doubles the volume of fire in exchange for losing the -2 AP. ~80 bolter shots should wipe out almost everything that walks, crawls or slithers on its belly and it should even get you roughly halfway through a Leman Russ is you really need to.

So objective secured existing again seems pretty huge. An enemy HAS to wipe out everything you have on an objective- so no crowding out your tacticals with conscripts, for example.

And some of these strategems are pretty brutal. Also, the first relic you take is always FREE. You can spend CP's to purchase one additional relic.

 General Helstrom wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
10 Man Sternguard Squad. All Special Issue Boltguns. Comes in at 190 pts. Park them within 15" of something you want dead. Use Bolter Drill (1CP) and Masterful Marksmanship (1CP) on the Sternguard Squad. Drink your opponent's tears.

How about storm bolters? Need to be within 12" but doubles the volume of fire in exchange for losing the -2 AP. ~80 bolter shots should wipe out almost everything that walks, crawls or slithers on its belly and it should even get you roughly halfway through a Leman Russ is you really need to.

The Masterful Marksmanship Strategem requires Special Issue Boltguns, so Storm Bolters are not an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So objective secured existing again seems pretty huge. An enemy HAS to wipe out everything you have on an objective- so no crowding out your tacticals with conscripts, for example.

And some of these strategems are pretty brutal. Also, the first relic you take is always FREE. You can spend CP's to purchase one additional relic.

Relic is free? SWEET. I need to find a place for a Power Fist dude in my army.

Relics are free as well as everything else?

Hmm so more and more the "Codex blessed" and everyone else.

If you combine the Salamanders Mantle with the Iron Resolve WT, the Shield Eternal and a bike, you have a dude that's T6, 2+3++6+++, has like 7 wounds and automatically halves damage taken from multi-damage weapons.


please watch the language


Reds8n .

Cheaper speeders, cheaper whirlwinds, cheaper bikes... I'm liking this. Doesn't look like flyers changed in value.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If you combine the Salamanders Mantle with the Iron Resolve WT, the Shield Eternal and a bike, you have a dude that's T6, 2+3++6+++, has like 7 wounds and automatically halves damage taken from multi-damage weapons.
.

So...crisis averted? It still grinds my gears that I can't give Pedro Kantor the Fist of Vengeance. Still, I will need to find room in my list for a Power Fist.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Relics are free as well as everything else?

Hmm so more and more the "Codex blessed" and everyone else.

1 relic is free.
2 relics cost 1 CP.
3 relics cost 3 CP.

Edit: Clarification.
You can take one relic for free, or two relics for one CP, or three relics for three CP.
All relics are free as in they cost no points (unless you replace them with a piece of wargear that you have to pay for first, i.e. you need to pay for a Stormshield if you want the Shield Eternal).

I foresee that the Shield Eternal will be common in this edition as well, especially i combination with a Bike for +1W and +1T, and the Warlord Trait that gives +1W and a 6+ FNP.

Can you givenrelics to special characters?

Not if they already have a relic, which most of them do.

Damn, free relics? I hope that trend continues to very other army as well.


It'd be nice to get back the Blessed Weapons that Space Marines stole from my Sisters of Battle.

Hey guys, sorry to interject but how good are reivers?, I don't have the rules for them but the models look cool and wanted to know how to or whether to use them in my actual army and not just have them for show.
Thanks

 john27 wrote:
Hey guys, sorry to interject but how good are reivers?, I don't have the rules for them but the models look cool and wanted to know how to or whether to use them in my actual army and not just have them for show.
Thanks

Well they have Infiltrate and can take basically an Assault 2 Bolter I think it is or a CCW. I like them but they definitely require some playtesting.

Also their Shock Grenades are superb.

So get them in close, aiming to make low morale units run, and take out unprotected heavy support squads?

 john27 wrote:
So get them in close, aiming to make low morale units run, and take out unprotected heavy support squads?

Also work them with another melee unit, to deal with tough opponents easily. Getting rid of overwatch and reducing to hit rolls means you can take a lot less damage rushing in a more expensive melee unit alongside them

They seem okay to me. The grenades are good but you have to get within 4" to use them, which seems situational outside of the RG stratagem.

Their mobility is still an issue as well, since they have to either deepstrike in and hope to make a charge (black templar ones might be better than most here), footslog, or ride in the hover tank. None of these seem like wonderful options to me.

 john27 wrote:
Hey guys, sorry to interject but how good are reivers?, I don't have the rules for them but the models look cool and wanted to know how to or whether to use them in my actual army and not just have them for show.
Thanks

They are very good with ccw/pistol, I'd even say they're slightly underpriced.

Compared to a Vanguard (without Jump Pack), they get +1 A, AP1 and +1W for 2 points, as well as a very nifty stungrenade.
They can also choose between Deepstrike or Outflank + free vertical movement for +2 ppm.

Their drawback (and possibly their redeeming quality which prevents them from being considering op) is that while they are very good at killing hordes with their many S4 AP1 attacks, they have no other weapon options except for their boltgun or pistol+ccw. No special weapons and no special close combat weapons.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Relics are free as well as everything else?

Hmm so more and more the "Codex blessed" and everyone else.

by free it means without command points spent, I suspect we'll have to buy them with points anyway

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Relics are free as well as everything else?

Hmm so more and more the "Codex blessed" and everyone else.

by free it means without command points spent, I suspect we'll have to buy them with points anyway

Nope. The only points cost the Relics have is whatever piece of wargear (if any) they're replacing. So like the Burning Blade has to replace a Power Sword, so you have to pay the points for the Power Sword, but the upgrade to the relic is free. But something like the Armor Indomitus or the ultramarines 3++/deny the witch Iron Halo upgrade is free.

The first relic costs 0 Command points. But there's a stratagem that is 1CP for an extra relic or 3CP for 2 extra relics (but the relics have to go on different characters, since no character can have more than one relic).

jcd386 wrote:
They seem okay to me. The grenades are good but you have to get within 4" to use them, which seems situational outside of the RG stratagem.

Don't they get the Aux. Grenade Launcher?

What should be done with this? I thinking of running him alongside Pedro Kantor and his Goon Squad. As a Character, I can give a Power Fist that will become the Fist of Vengeance. It doesn't look like there is a way to get him an Invulnerable save, but he has a good number of wounds and the Honour Guard and Apothecary should be able to help. The reroll wounds ability will make him good to have near my Special Issue Boltgun Sternguard Squad for their Bolter Drill/Masterful Marksmanship Alpha Strike.

Yeah he is basically a WGBL from space wolves. If you have to pick you want this guy near your high rate of fire low Str weapons and a captain near your lower rate of fire high str weapons.

I've been taking at least two captains in a lot of my SM lists and I'll probably start taking one of the lts now as well.

jcd386 wrote:
Yeah he is basically a WGBL from space wolves. If you have to pick you want this guy near your high rate of fire low Str weapons and a captain near your lower rate of fire high str weapons.

I've been taking at least two captains in a lot of my SM lists and I'll probably start taking one of the lts now as well.

He will be situated between a 10 man Special Issue Boltgun Sternguard Squad and Pedro with a squad of close combat guys. Probably Honour Guard and a Company Ancient.

I didn't really see the parallel between the Lieutenant and the WGPL. He has fewer choices, but someone said in the Reddit thread that the LT only runs 46 pts vs. 60 pts for the WGBL.

I meant the ability to reroll 1s to wound as the similarity.

jcd386 wrote:
I meant the ability to reroll 1s to wound as the similarity.

Yeah...the Primaris Lieutenant has had it just as long. It was never something special for WGBL.

Edit: In other news, my Rhino Primaris is going to use Targeting Data Skull and make for even more hits with Bolter Drill. Since the additional hits occur on a 6+, not a flat 6, rolls of 5 or 6 will add additional rolls. I can't wait.

Yeah but having to take a lt that can't get into a transport is annoying as he counts as his own 'drop' in deployment, can't keep up with a lot of units. Plus I was not looking forward to having 1 Primaris marine in my list just to get rerolls to wound.

All in all I'm just happy that small SM have their own version too as I see it as an important reroll bubble to have in a strong list and the flexibility of a jump pack or going in a normal transport is a big feature. Also him being a cheap HQ choice is pretty great too.

I watched a review video of the codex and it showed that the Lieutenants are 60 pts a piece. In my case, adding in a Power Fist and a Master-crafter Bolt Rifle brings his price up to 83 pts. Not bad at all. I am glad they didn't make them cheaper than a WGBL. Though it does suck that they can't take a Storm Shield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, now that Inceptors are 15 pts less per model, are they actually viable now? 180 pts doesn't look all that bad, assuming that the Assault Bolters didn't go down in price. I dunno, I want to know what those plasma exterminators cost before I decide.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Masterful Marksmanship Strategem requires Special Issue Boltguns, so Storm Bolters are not an option.

Ah, that makes sense. I thought there was a stratagem to let a bolter unit fire twice, that would have been spectacular on storm bolter-armed sternguard! Alas, one can only dream...

Masterful Marksmanship aside, 40 bolter shots ignoring cover (IF chapter tactic) and adding another hit for every 6+ rolled (Bolter Drill stratagem) is going to hurt something fierce. Stick them in a drop pod for about 280 points total. Get a captain and/or lieutenant nearby for even more delight.

So how are people feeling about the new options for Primaris units in the codex?


Aggressors, with either weapon these guys murder hordes. That's pretty much it.

Plasma Inceptors. I'm not so sure about these guys. They're very expensive, and with the number or shots they have, the will surely fry themselves if they overcharge (even the captain is not a good guarantee that they won't.) Sure, you don't have to overcharge, but still...

Reivers, grapple or grav? Melee or shooty? (I think melee is better, the gun is mediocre at best.) And which weapon best goes with which deployment method?

Intercessors get new guns too. Stalker might be decent for backfield objective campers. Auto bolt is just trash, I don't understand why anyone would ever take it over either of the other options (It might be OK for Reivers, as they cannot get better gun*)

And how about the Repulsor? For a transport, it is really expensive, so it has to carry a high value unit. Aggressors would be an obvious choice. Any other candidates?


*Auto bolt rifle and bolt carbine have the same profile, so they're basically the same weapon. This is weird as they look nothing alike.