Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You can still use 'em, you just have to use the points cost outlined in the Index (which is 10 points higher than the cost in the Codex).

Edit: Also, Sergeants can't take Combi-Gravs anymore. The option is just gone. I assume that'll get fixed in an upcoming FAQ, rather than it being intentional ...but you never know.

 MinscS2 wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

Either way they are terrible. 3 attacks with no save penalty is garbage. If it had -1 to it even id be all onboard. I realise that fluff does not = game rules, but it should be close. they talk how they murder in CC and their blades have an anti energy field on them like a powersword.

Am I missing something? Doesn't Reivers have AP -1 on their combat blades? I recall the leaked dataslate showing them as AP -1.

wtwlf123 wrote:Looks like the new Codex also eliminated 2x Heavy Flamer and 2x Multi-Melta Land Speeders...

Have to default back to the Index points costs on those arrangements as well. :(

Awww that sucks if it's true.

There is 0 ap on it. It's just a combat blade.

Also for grenades better to take 2 and combat squad so you only use 1 activation for 2 guys and get to shoot both grenades.

As for people saying reivers are just better, they are not troops so you loose out on auto winning objectives as marine troops get that, not elites. No intercessors are not great but a grenade launcher gives them something to camp objectives with

Quick question. I've looked around a little bit but I thought it'd be faster to ask here.

Can a storm Raven carry a contemptor dread?

 MinscS2 wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I'm looking at it. It's true. If you want to take a Land Speeder with double special weapons, you'll have to pay the "tax" of using the Index points.

Damn, then it just plain sucks. Thought I finally had found a use for my Land Speeders this edition.

Guess they're going back to the shelf.

Wait, ugh, I thought from the FAQ quote like 2 pages back, if you take a unit that is in both books, like a land speeder, you pay the most recent pricing of the unit and the weapons (ie from the codex), but can use the index loadout. Meanwhile, units that don't appear at all in the codex use the index point cost, even if their similar unit was reduced in cost. Ex: Bikers got reduced, veteran bikers don't exist, so vet bikers have to pay index price.

Yes? No?

I had planned to use a Storm with an AC, which I understand is not a codex wargear option, but Storms are -10pts in the codex. I'm not going to bother if I have to pay the 10pt tax to get the option to pay 11 more pts for the AC upgrade.

It's been interpreted both ways. The most recent place where that unit has been available with that wargear was the Index, so you'd use Index points for the entire unit.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but the local GW store manager and I read the Codex FAQ that way.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I'm looking at it. It's true. If you want to take a Land Speeder with double special weapons, you'll have to pay the "tax" of using the Index points.

So you can mix and match index and codex points costs in individual units? I thought we had to choose one or the other.

No, in the FAQ they clearly said that you can use the index configuration but you USE the most recent points (In this case, the Codex ones)

 wtwlf123 wrote:
It's been interpreted both ways. The most recent place where that unit has been available with that wargear was the Index, so you'd use Index points for the entire unit.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but the local GW store manager and I read the Codex FAQ that way.

I have hunted the webz, but have failed. Can you point me towards that FAQ?

Thanks!

For those of you that don't know which main gun to use with your Redemptor Dreadnought, I just finished putting mine together with the Plasma-doohickey and there's a little "gear" piece that connects the gun to the shoulder that didn't need any glue to stay. It falls out a little easily, but that's a fine sacrifice for flexibility.

WolfHound wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I'm looking at it. It's true. If you want to take a Land Speeder with double special weapons, you'll have to pay the "tax" of using the Index points.

So you can mix and match index and codex points costs in individual units? I thought we had to choose one or the other.

Again, this has been interpreted different ways. The local GW manager and I interpreted the rule to be one or the other. But you can interpret the rule to say that you can mix and match. We need an FAQ to clarify the FAQ...

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
It's been interpreted both ways. The most recent place where that unit has been available with that wargear was the Index, so you'd use Index points for the entire unit.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but the local GW store manager and I read the Codex FAQ that way.

I have hunted the webz, but have failed. Can you point me towards that FAQ?

Thanks!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

"Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index)."

The FAQ specifically mentions the index datacard and the associated points values as separate entities. I believe you use the the datasheet from the index (defining its stats, rules and options) but the most recent points values (currently, those in the Codex). This both fits RAW and makes sense RAI.

What does everyone make of the Repulsor?

From what I can see in the codex it's around the 335 mark if you run it with the twin lascannon, las-talon, onslaught gatling cannon plus the rest of its standard Loadout.

I wonder if is better to run it with twin Gatling Cannons (H6, S5 AP-1 D1)? Use it to mulch infantry and leave the heavy hitting to other units?

 General Helstrom wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
It's been interpreted both ways. The most recent place where that unit has been available with that wargear was the Index, so you'd use Index points for the entire unit.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but the local GW store manager and I read the Codex FAQ that way.

I have hunted the webz, but have failed. Can you point me towards that FAQ?

Thanks!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

"Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index)."

The FAQ specifically mentions the index datacard and the associated points values as separate entities. I believe you use the the datasheet from the index (defining its stats, rules and options) but the most recent points values (currently, those in the Codex). This both fits RAW and makes sense RAI.

Has anyone asked them on facebook and if other armies are having their points adjusted as well for weapons such as Power Fists?

 General Helstrom wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
It's been interpreted both ways. The most recent place where that unit has been available with that wargear was the Index, so you'd use Index points for the entire unit.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but the local GW store manager and I read the Codex FAQ that way.

I have hunted the webz, but have failed. Can you point me towards that FAQ?

Thanks!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

"Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index)."

The FAQ specifically mentions the index datacard and the associated points values as separate entities. I believe you use the the datasheet from the index (defining its stats, rules and options) but the most recent points values (currently, those in the Codex). This both fits RAW and makes sense RAI.

See, the interpretation we had was that "the most recent points published for that model and its weapons" is talking about the combination of model + weapon. And the last place where that model with that weapon was available was the Index. So you'd have to use Index points if either the unit OR the wargear arrangement wasn't in the new Codex.

Like I said, I'd be stoked to be wrong here, because it allows me to take the new model's point discount AND use a more expansive wargear list, but it seems like you'd need to concede something to gain access to like double the weapon options. Otherwise, the new players that they were trying to "protect" with a more box-accurate Codex would get shafted.

They've literally created a situation where a Space Marine player HAS to have both the Index and the Codex to field a decent army. If there's no penalty for using the old units, they needed to move them into the Codex. Because right now, a new player will field a subpar Land Speeder arrangement, and I'll roll up with a much better wargear configuration ...for the same points cost... because it was kitted in the Index that way. When it was in the Index, with that wargear combination, the base model was 10 more points. Seems odd that I get to take advantage of the base model discount (since it could've been justified due to a restriction on wargear options). And now I can just get both the cheaper base points cost and the more expansive wargear list for free? I hope you're right, but a lot of people aren't interpreting it that way.

Gibs55 wrote:
What does everyone make of the Repulsor?

From what I can see in the codex it's around the 335 mark if you run it with the twin lascannon, las-talon, onslaught gatling cannon plus the rest of its standard Loadout.

I wonder if is better to run it with twin Gatling Cannons (H6, S5 AP-1 D1)? Use it to mulch infantry and leave the heavy hitting to other units?

Since it's a flyer, I really feel it should be in the front lines, absorbing damage and mulching infantry, thus TwinHB, Heavy OGC, OGC, 5x Fragstorm Launcher, Ironhailstubber. For a total of 305. that is so much freaking dakka.20 S5 shots and 5d6+3 S4 shots

 Coyote81 wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What does everyone make of the Repulsor?

From what I can see in the codex it's around the 335 mark if you run it with the twin lascannon, las-talon, onslaught gatling cannon plus the rest of its standard Loadout.

I wonder if is better to run it with twin Gatling Cannons (H6, S5 AP-1 D1)? Use it to mulch infantry and leave the heavy hitting to other units?

Since it's a flyer, I really feel it should be in the front lines, absorbing damage and mulching infantry, thus TwinHB, Heavy OGC, OGC, 5x Fragstorm Launcher, Ironhailstubber. For a total of 305. that is so much freaking dakka.20 S5 shots and 5d6+3 S4 shots

I tend to agree, it will go down fairly quickly though as I don't believe it gets the -1 to hit bonus like other flyers.

the problem with building it for anti-infantry of course is in a pure Primaris list, it's your best tank popper.

Primaris marines REALLY need some more anti-tank

BrianDavion wrote:
the problem with building it for anti-infantry of course is in a pure Primaris list, it's your best tank popper.

Primaris marines REALLY need some more anti-tank

True, however that will only be for those that don't want to consider other options outside Primaris. Predators seem like a good supporting unit wit 4 Lascannons?

As an ork, I love that imperial armies get more dakka, at cheaper points and better accuracy, as my army. It's not about the expected damage, it's about sheer number of shots - and it's getting old that the "buckets of dice" torch has been passed to armies with better BS and armor.

But this is neither here nor there.

I agree with repulsor being a dakka boat; that's SO much firepower for 305 points; never mind in addition to its armor and survivalists.

And if you're building a pure primaris only list, well; not even the fluff supports an entirely primaris army list yet.

fe40k wrote:
As an ork, I love that imperial armies get more dakka, at cheaper points and better accuracy, as my army. It's not about the expected damage, it's about sheer number of shots - and it's getting old that the "buckets of dice" torch has been passed to armies with better BS and armor.

But this is neither here nor there.

I agree with repulsor being a dakka boat; that's SO much firepower for 305 points; never mind in addition to its armor and survivalists.

And if you're building a pure primaris only list, well; not even the fluff supports an entirely primaris army list yet.

Except for that huge new crusade guilliman launched using all new primaris marines before they'd even been dropped into chapter or the new founding or the dead/almost dead chapters taking huge reinforcements and armies on the table only being a fraction of a chapter

fe40k wrote:
As an ork, I love that imperial armies get more dakka, at cheaper points and better accuracy, as my army. It's not about the expected damage, it's about sheer number of shots - and it's getting old that the "buckets of dice" torch has been passed to armies with better BS and armor.

But this is neither here nor there.

I agree with repulsor being a dakka boat; that's SO much firepower for 305 points; never mind in addition to its armor and survivalists.

And if you're building a pure primaris only list, well; not even the fluff supports an entirely primaris army list yet.

I think everyone just needs to relax until the actual army codex's are released. If they hold true to the release schedule it won't be long until most armies have their own. Its also clear that the Index was a quick and dirty way of getting everyone into 8th and the points costs might not have been well thought out for everyone. However, we have already seen with the SM codex that they have adjusted points costs (not only for Pimaris either) so lets hope they do the same for other armies when they have their turn.

In regards to the Repulsor, I have been running lists and I keep coming to that fact that the tank is simply not durable enough to justify 350ish points fully loaded, the 300 version with Gatling Cannons and the array of Bolters seems pretty good though! I will probably sill magnetise the weapons however their are simply better options for the Lascannons. Leaving the 'bug guns' off also means you force the opponent to make tough decisions about which units to target. If you have the Repulsar with all the expensive stuff its a no-brainer where all the enemy fire power is going and that 3+ disappears instantly versus most regular anti vehicle weapons.

My next question would be what units do you load inside? Its funny as I feel Terminators would be ideal for this thing, however Primaris have nothing similar to their flexibility and tankyness. Aggressors with Flame Fists seem like a good option as they pack a punch in close range combat, can burn through hordes and make opponents think twice about charging them. On the other hand Primaris troops only clock in at 200ish points for a 10 man squad which is not too bad for 20 wounds. However, they bring nothing the Repulsor cannot already deal with outside of being solid on objectives.....

I think you hit the nail on the head with one of my issues with the repressor, it tries to do too much. it tried to be the MBT, while also trying to be the primary (only really) transport for Primaris Marines, and as a result it's perhaps not as specialzied as it should be. me I'd like to see them ditch the transport capacity, (that should knock some points off) and give Primaris Marines pure transport option. The rhino is a popular standby for marine players for a reason, it gets their troops from point a to point b safely, and thats all it tries to do

Gibs55 wrote:
My next question would be what units do you load inside?

Two squads of Reivers for disruptive assaults or taking objectives.

 Melissia wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
My next question would be what units do you load inside?

Two squads of Reivers for disruptive assaults or taking objectives.

So you are thinking Pistols and Combat weapons? Jump out throw grenades, charge in without the threat of overwatch? The only downside I can see is that Reivers are elite (same as Aggressors) which means you may still want some troops to get Command Points. If, you were running Primaris Troops would you run them without a transport and the 30" bolt rifle?

Probably. Intercessors are quite good for their points at being objective-holders. Repulsors are a bit pricey, but do have a respectable amount of firepower, so I'd dedicate specialists to their use rather than generalists.

So guys, a quick note for you on the subject of double plasma pistol gunslinger Vanguard Veterans VS plasma exterminator Inceptors.

Just last night, I played a game against an opponent with pristine positioning that kept me from utilizing a unit of Assault Marines with 3 plasma pistols. A unit of Vanguard Vets with plasma would have had the same problem.

2 VIUs. Very Important Units in my opponent's backfield that have the potential to just absolutely wreck face.

These units were screened by a very large infantry unit that was spaced in such a way that, if I stayed 9'' away from the screen, I was outside of 12'' from the VIU, which is plasma pistol range.

The 18'' range on the Exterminators was something I wish I had! However, he also gave those units a -1 to hit aura with a character I could not target (FW unit I believe). So I would still be overheating on 2's. Even if I got a decent roll on the hits for those weapons, they were T8 so I would have had a hard time wounding them still. Likely would not have killed a VIU.

 Melissia wrote:
Probably. Intercessors are quite good for their points at being objective-holders. Repulsors are a bit pricey, but do have a respectable amount of firepower, so I'd dedicate specialists to their use rather than generalists.

Good point, I also agree that Intercessors are great at holding objectives.

 ultimentra wrote:
So guys, a quick note for you on the subject of double plasma pistol gunslinger Vanguard Veterans VS plasma exterminator Inceptors.

Just last night, I played a game against an opponent with pristine positioning that kept me from utilizing a unit of Assault Marines with 3 plasma pistols. A unit of Vanguard Vets with plasma would have had the same problem.

2 VIUs. Very Important Units in my opponent's backfield that have the potential to just absolutely wreck face.

These units were screened by a very large infantry unit that was spaced in such a way that, if I stayed 9'' away from the screen, I was outside of 12'' from the VIU, which is plasma pistol range.

The 18'' range on the Exterminators was something I wish I had! However, he also gave those units a -1 to hit aura with a character I could not target (FW unit I believe). So I would still be overheating on 2's. Even if I got a decent roll on the hits for those weapons, they were T8 so I would have had a hard time wounding them still. Likely would not have killed a VIU.

This is why i don't think a full/heavy deep strike army really works. I do think one dangerous unit dropping in can be useful, as by turn 2 or 3 there is likely to be a unit open to being shot and charged, especially with maelstrom missions as they force both players to move forward.

Quick question since I haven't seen the book yet. Korsarro Khan, are his rules identical to the index or is there actually something lost by running him on a bike from the index?

 dmthomas7 wrote:
Quick question since I haven't seen the book yet. Korsarro Khan, are his rules identical to the index or is there actually something lost by running him on a bike from the index?

Hehas exactly the same stats and cost in the index and the codex.