Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Damn, thought I discovered something.

Alright; well, if I've learned anything from the "Mobile Fortress"/Battlewagon debacle, it's to play things as conservatively as possible until a ruling comes out - which means they can be shot as they come out of the drop pod.

Due to marines being an army that gets screwed out of CT-buffed vehicles I find Ven Dreads superior to Preds, but I have 2 of each. I love the look of marine tanks.

What do you think of a stormraven equipped with hurricane bolters, twin heavy bolters and twin asscan ? Would it be wasting a precious storm or would it be a good anti troops unit ?

So, if the rumored points decrease of Plasma Exterminator Inceptors (now 59 points) is true, would they be worth taking at this point? That is some pretty decent mobile Anti-Tank/Monster with the ability to deep strike. 177 pts for a squad doesn't seem that bad.

Thoughts?

I can’t see myself taking inceptors anymore regardless of price. They are too fragile and don’t do enough on the drop.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, if the rumored points decrease of Plasma Exterminator Inceptors (now 59 points) is true, would they be worth taking at this point? That is some pretty decent mobile Anti-Tank/Monster with the ability to deep strike. 177 pts for a squad doesn't seem that bad.

Thoughts?

What rumors?

 tpogs wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, if the rumored points decrease of Plasma Exterminator Inceptors (now 59 points) is true, would they be worth taking at this point? That is some pretty decent mobile Anti-Tank/Monster with the ability to deep strike. 177 pts for a squad doesn't seem that bad.

Thoughts?

What rumors?

There is a rumor thread that has Chapter Approved points changes. Several Primaris Units got a price decrease.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 tpogs wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, if the rumored points decrease of Plasma Exterminator Inceptors (now 59 points) is true, would they be worth taking at this point? That is some pretty decent mobile Anti-Tank/Monster with the ability to deep strike. 177 pts for a squad doesn't seem that bad.

Thoughts?

What rumors?

There is a rumor thread that has Chapter Approved points changes. Several Primaris Units got a price decrease.

They finally figured out that primaris is a huge dumpster fire?

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 tpogs wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, if the rumored points decrease of Plasma Exterminator Inceptors (now 59 points) is true, would they be worth taking at this point? That is some pretty decent mobile Anti-Tank/Monster with the ability to deep strike. 177 pts for a squad doesn't seem that bad.

Thoughts?

What rumors?

There is a rumor thread that has Chapter Approved points changes. Several Primaris Units got a price decrease.

They finally figured out that primaris is a huge dumpster fire?

Yeah, it is pretty sad their flagship Marine models for 8th are so mediocre it is embarrassing. A bunch of us were talking about how to try and make a Primaris centric list in the store last weekend... We couldn't really come up with anything that was pretty much Primaris only that looked like it was any good besides Ravenguard Hellblaster spam.

18 pt intercessors would be a good start. At 20 ppm, tacticals still have too many upsides. Projecting only S4 out to 30" is not worth 100 pts/squad. Oh, and the overcharge plasma problem.

Here are the rumored price changes. The Aggressor and Intercessor changes make up for the changes in the Razorback.
Points Per Model
Aggressor 21 (-4)
Chaplain in Terminator Armour 100 (-15)
Drop Pod 83 (-10)
Inceptor 25 (-5)
Intercessor 18 (-2)
Librarian 88 (-5)
Librarian in Terminator 120 (-23)
Razorback 70 (+5)
Stalker 75 (-5)
Stormraven 192 (+20)
Tartaros Terminator 26
Terminator Assault 26
Terminus Ultra 250
Vindicator 125 (-10)
Whirlwind 70 (-5)

Wargear
Assault Bolter 10 (-5)
Assault Cannon 22
Assault Plasma Incinerator 17 (-11)

Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets 12 (-6)
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher 1
Boltstorm Gauntlet 22 (-3)
Centurion Assault Launchers 3
Force Axe 10 (-6)
Force Stave 8 (-6)
Hurricane Bolter 10 (+6)
Ironclad Assault Launchers 5
Plasma Exterminator 17 (-11)
Predator Autocannon 40 (-9)
Twin Assault Aannon 44 (+9)

Characters

Roboute Guilliman 385 (+25)
Sergeant Chronus 40 (+5)




Tl;dr: Roby, TwinAssault RB and Stromraven go up in points, Primaris and Terminatorarmour get's cheaper.


Interceptor with Bolter: 45 (was 60)
Interceptor with Plasma 59 (was 86)
Aggressor with Bolter 33 (was 43)
Stormraven with TwinAssaultCannon, two HurricaneBolter, Twin HeavyBolter and StormstrikeMissileLauncher 315 (was 274)

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Here are the rumored price changes. The Aggressor and Intercessor changes make up for the changes in the Razorback.
Points Per Model
Aggressor 21 (-4)
Chaplain in Terminator Armour 100 (-15)
Drop Pod 83 (-10)
Inceptor 25 (-5)
Intercessor 18 (-2)
Librarian 88 (-5)
Librarian in Terminator 120 (-23)
Razorback 70 (+5)
Stalker 75 (-5)
Stormraven 192 (+20)
Tartaros Terminator 26
Terminator Assault 26
Terminus Ultra 250
Vindicator 125 (-10)
Whirlwind 70 (-5)

Wargear
Assault Bolter 10 (-5)
Assault Cannon 22
Assault Plasma Incinerator 17 (-11)

Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets 12 (-6)
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher 1
Boltstorm Gauntlet 22 (-3)
Centurion Assault Launchers 3
Force Axe 10 (-6)
Force Stave 8 (-6)
Hurricane Bolter 10 (+6)
Ironclad Assault Launchers 5
Plasma Exterminator 17 (-11)
Predator Autocannon 40 (-9)
Twin Assault Aannon 44 (+9)

Characters

Roboute Guilliman 385 (+25)
Sergeant Chronus 40 (+5)




Tl;dr: Roby, TwinAssault RB and Stromraven go up in points, Primaris and Terminatorarmour get's cheaper.


Interceptor with Bolter: 45 (was 60)
Interceptor with Plasma 59 (was 86)
Aggressor with Bolter 33 (was 43)
Stormraven with TwinAssaultCannon, two HurricaneBolter, Twin HeavyBolter and StormstrikeMissileLauncher 315 (was 274)

If this is correct I suspect twin assault cannon loadouts will still be some of our best shooting, might end up changing my chassis too mortis dreads though. I'm happy Bobby G went up in points but I wish it was more than just 25. The Hurricane bolter change makes me sad but I understand it.

Love the Predator autocannon and Librarian changes. I always thought it was weird a normal Libby cost the same as a Primaris Librarian with the same loadout. Vindicator change is interesting but I don't know if I'd run one.

It'll be interesting to see if these changes pan out.

Happy to see aggressors cheaper; they’re quite fragile but they’re fun. With nid monsters getting tougher quad las pred is still better than autocannon in my eyes. Sad to see the assault cannons get more expensive lol.

Huh, I wonder if any of these adjustments will be included in either the Blood Angels or Dark Angels Codexes. I would hate to have both Codexes I need for my armies (Guard & Blood Angels) need a FAQ the day/week after they come out.

Odd that they seem to be reducing the cost of boltstorm gauntlets but not flamestorm, when the latter are already worse. Assault marines really needed a price cut too.

Might put my Tartarus termies together at last. I’ve had a sprue kicking around since BoP came out. Still no idea what to equip them with.

Overall these look like very positive changes. My army will get a fair bit bigger as a result.

Inceptors are clearly the big winners here. The bolter ones are now at a price point where I need to seriously consider them.

Meanwhile it’s good to see the assault cannons go up. The combo of ACs and Bobby G is too strong and too boring.

Edit: I've just had a look at the current points values. I don't know if the rumoured changes are right, but the changes (+ or - X points) are often way off. Auto boltstorm gauntlets go down by 2 points, not 6, for example.

While I'm happy that the Storm Raven got a point increase as it deserved one, I am really not happy about the twin assault cannon and hurricane bolter price increase as it punishes other platforms that are not OP. Namely, the LR Crusader.

Nobody but me has been using the Crusader in my local meta, its not overpowered but because that particular Storm Raven loadout is, the Crusader is now more expensive. They should have just increased the price of the Raven, not its weapons. I'm pretty angry about that.

I agree with that sentiment. I also find it hilarious that flame storm aggressors stay the same price apparently; way overpriced compared to dakka.

Hah, and Meltaguns still stays ultra expensive versus Plasma Guns. I do like that they are at least attempting to balance things out better, but some of these changes make me scratch my head.

Almost seems like they are just arbitrarily adjusting points just to see what happens on some of them.

Yeah I definitely agree that the assault cannon nerf is a problem.

The broken thing has been the combo of Bobby G with loads of assault cannons. That’s actually a rules issue, not a points issue. When a combo is broken you need to fix it, not make it more expensive. Otherwise you make the units worse outside of the combo, and nerf units that were nothing to do with it.

A lot of stuff is missing, which is odd. There are still a lot of overpriced units, like land speeders. Maybe next time.

Eh, I'm taking the list with a grain of salt. If it is real I doubt it's complete or 100% accurate. Would love to see Landspeeders addressed.

Same here on Land Speeders, particularly Storms. I'd also like to see CMLs dropped to 40-45 points, Assault Marines to drop a point (or have full special/melee weapon access), Cataphractii Terminators to also get a small drop, and Ints to stay at 20 points, just lose the rules about not being able to get in transports, it's a stupid rule to sell Repulsors and everyone knows it.

That said, still taking the list with a huge grain of salt.

Also on a tangent, I wish they'd bump Bobby G up to 12 wounds. He is 15+ feet tall and even has the monster keyword, he shouldn't be able to hide behind a few guardsmen. Would solve a lot of the frustration people (including myself) have with him.

At which point he isn’t worth half the points Magnus and Morty are. There are some nids the size of a 2 storey house that are 9 wounds, and you’ve likely noticed ten Tac marines are a bit big for a rhino so we have to forgive the model scale a bit here and there.

biggest winner for chapter approved leaks.
assault bolter inceptors. 42 is not bad for a unit that can naturally deep strike with 2 assault heavy bolters. I'd really like to see their mortals on charge increased to a 4+ to go off to and then I think they are actually viable
Intersessors 18 points. Not bad - 10% drop in price might all us to fit another good unit into a list if taking something like 30 intersessors (this is what I do anyways)
Agressors - modest price drop for a unit that already has insane potential damage. how about we get a stratagem that lets them double tap even though they moved for 2 CP?
Vidicators - 125 points. Barely more than an assault cannon Razor now. Guilliman buffing these bad boys will absolutely destroy mech lists if you can screen for them.

Guilliman was an obvious increase - I actually expected 400.

Biggest losers
Dev Centurians - These guys need a friggen 40 points price drop. They were bumped up 10 points in the codex from the index....Like I get it that 2 las cannons and a d3 rocket launcher is a lot of firepower - but they have 3 wounds and not even an Invo save. Bump them to 6 wounds with a 5++ or drop the 40 points - up to you GW.
Repulsor - no price drop. I get it that these things have a lot of guns. It's just too easy to kill without an invo save or a 2+ save. Drop points or buff please.
Land raiders - No fly keyword - no invo save - Lets drop the points GW. With 4 las and 2 heavy bolters and reasonable toughness and a 10 man transport capacity - this thing is worth about 300 points - not the 340 that we are currently paying.
Land Speeders and storms. 30-40% point drop please.

I'd also like to see Primaris Champions given access to relics. A primaris captin with a primarchs wrath would be a lot of fun to play with. Currently it's a piece of junk wasting it's 2+ bs and can only have a power sword?

 Xenomancers wrote:
biggest winner for chapter approved leaks.

Biggest losers

Land raiders - No fly keyword - no invo save - Lets drop the points GW. With 4 las and 2 heavy bolters and reasonable toughness and a 10 man transport capacity - this thing is worth about 300 points - not the 340 that we are currently paying.
Land Speeders and storms. 30-40% point drop please.

I'd also like to see Primaris Champions given access to relics. A primaris captin with a primarchs wrath would be a lot of fun to play with. Currently it's a piece of junk wasting it's 2+ bs and can only have a power sword?

I think the Land Raider should not be granted "fly", that would mean it can floated over infantry and broken building, which just feels not right. Instead, I propose to give it something like "Steel Behemorth" i.e. can shoot even it just fall back from combat. Furthermore, inv save may not be needee, but bump its wound numbers up to 20 would make it looks more fair. Currently, just inflict 8 wounds in 1st turn and it is basically crippled due to its movement will be halved. WTH. With the new proposal, it require around 10W to achieve that, which will offer it a breath to conduct what it need to do.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that Land Raiders be given fly - just that they are weak because they don't have it and need something else. So yeah, something like steel behemoth would do the job.

I actually don't think they really need an invulnerable. A 5++ would only matter against AP-4 weapons, and then only if you rolled a 5 for your save. That isn't a significant increase in survivability.

Anyway let's wait and see. So far we've only seen a rumour of points changes. It doesn't tell us one way or the other if they will change rules, and it may not be complete.

177pts for plasma Inceptors, and 135 for dakka Inceptors?

I really hope this is true! It would give Marines a great new fast attack option, and finally make viable one of my favourite new models from the Primaris line. I know a lot of people don't like them, but their high-speed-scram-jet-double-dakka badassery just seems very thematic to me. Something about their rounded profile looks like they're built to strike down from orbit.

With RG CT you can try to drop them in cover beyond 12" too, to try and get a bit more life out of them, as their CC is a desperate move, rather than a viable strategy imo.

Finally, this means that Primaris only attempts at list building get some actual viable -AP weapons to play with.

Yeah I am really hoping Inceptors become usable without feeling like a trash choice compared to hellblasters.

Hey all,

I'm trying to build up a space marine force slowly, what do you think of the following list as starting point to go from. I will play 750pt games once I get this list painted, then move up as I acquire and paint models.

Eventually I want to go full mechanized, and I would mostly be expanding in terms of vehicles. This list could serve as most of the core of infantry for larger games.

And speaking of the mediocrity of Primaris marines, I put some reivers in this list . I'm sure there are better choices, but the models are super cool, and they aren't BAD, per say.

 walkiflalka wrote:
Hey all,

I'm trying to build up a space marine force slowly, what do you think of the following list as starting point to go from. I will play 750pt games once I get this list painted, then move up as I acquire and paint models.

Eventually I want to go full mechanized, and I would mostly be expanding in terms of vehicles. This list could serve as most of the core of infantry for larger games.

And speaking of the mediocrity of Primaris marines, I put some reivers in this list . I'm sure there are better choices, but the models are super cool, and they aren't BAD, per say.

Spoiler:

++ Auxiliary Support (CP -1) (Adeptus Mechanicus) [60 Pts] ++

+ Troops +

Skitarii Rangers [60 Pts]: 6x Ranger

+ 'Faction +

Forge World Entries

Forge World Selection::
Stygies

++ Patrol (CP +0) (Space Marines) [690 Pts, 21 Pwr] ++

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [111 Pts, 6 Pwr]: 5x Camo Cloak, Missile Launcher, 3x Sniper Rifle, Sniper Rifle

Tactical Squad [82 Pts, 5 Pwr]: Meltagun

Tactical Squad [82 Pts, 5 Pwr]: Meltagun

Tactical Squad [82 Pts, 5 Pwr]: Meltagun

+ Elites +

Rievers [100 Pts]: 5x Grav Chute, 5x Riever
Bolt carbines

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [63 Pts]
. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted Boltgun (Primarch's wrath)
-Warlord, iron resolve

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback [90 Pts]: Hunter-Killer Missile, Stormbolter, Twin Heavy Bolter

Rhino [80 Pts]: Hunter-Killer Missile, Stormbolter, Stormbolter

+ 'Faction +

Chapter Selection: Salamanders

The concept of this list is pretty simple, all the tacs go in the transports accompanied by the Lieutenant, while the Rangers and scouts grab backfield objectives and provide supporting fire. The Reivers can either distract and harass the enemy, or grab objectives as needed.

Also, my reasoning behind using the rangers is that they are cheaper than vanilla scouts, and if used as auxiliaries with the stygies forge world they can be somewhat resilient. Their long range guns are not bad, and as auxiliaries they can still re roll 1s once per game, and get cover in the open once per game using canticles. Not bad for 60pts and 1CP I would argue.

Thoughts?

++ Total: [750 Pts, 21 Pwr] ++

I'm not going to comment on the strength or weakness of the list because you seem to want to play casually with friends with units that you find fun and that's totally fine. Instead I'm just gonna mention units or upgrades that I like/dislike in your list.

The unit I dislike the most in the list is the Sniper scouts. Sniper rifles just don't do much for SM's this edition imo. Camo cloaks are also pretty expensive and not worth it for me.

You mention you wanted to add the Admech rangers for durability but in my experience scouts have been quite durable for their cost. Don't forget they're still toughness 4, Leadership 8 and have TSKNF.

Meltaguns just haven't really cut it for me this edition. They might fair better for you with Salamander CT but I'd go with Lascannons or Grav-Cannons(Lascannons with Salamanders). Not only do they have 4x the range of the melta but that Str 9 REALLY makes a difference on certain targets.

You should also very much consider investing in a Captain. SM's very much pivot around the ability to give their units rerolls.

tpogs,

I agree that the sniper scouts are not great this edition. 8th ed. cover makes camo cloaks pretty meh. I like the range on the sniper rifle, but I have to admit, other than liking the way the sniper squads look, I only decided on that load out because the box comes only with it. I like the idea of scout squads with an ML under Salamanders CT though, since it makes them fairly reliable. Maybe I should just get a regular scout squad and get an ML from another kit. For 75pts they would make ok objective campers.

The Admech are mostly because I find them cool, but also because I think they're pretty good for how cheap they are. I would argue they do the job of sniper scouts far better for the cost. Since with that range you aren't going to be taking advantage of the deployment rule as much.

I definitely think lascannons are worthwhile, but I probably won't add any in until later points levels. Although, what do you think of swapping the twin heavy bolters on the razorback for twin las? I also plan on adding Vulkan as a captain later on too. Until then, I think that re-rolls to wound are still pretty good from the Lieutenant and each squad can both re roll to hit and wound with their meltas due to CT. So my main worry should be getting into range.