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Put devs in them so they don't die to manticores/basilisks before they can fire.

Bubba4President wrote:
Hey again guys and gals, been a while since I've posted!

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else found any uses for drop pods beyond transporting a unit? I keep coming back trying to find a use for my drop pod. It was given second hand as the previous owner sold me a bunch of his marines (needed the money for Orks) that I'm trying to figure out what to do with.

So I'm thinking I would try the following in my gaming group:

1 Drop (or more) with storm bolter
3 random characters with jump packs with some power weapons of some kind
Scouts to bubble wrap
Fill rest of list with stuff I can use (Primaris of each kind, Preds, etc)

Plan: I figured I would deploy everything except pod(s) and characters. On my turn (providing my JP characters come in from reserve) I would launch the empty pod down and the characters with it. See if the pod (or pods?) can save the characters from being targeted for a turn, next turn jump them away to pummel some units in CC that were softened up by my scouts, preds, razorbacks, devs etc. JP characters would be armed to deal with mostly small units or damaged vehicles.

Could add a Calexus for some smite defense or a Libarian to give MoH on the pod (hey, its one attack at S7 with T7) for a puzzled look on your opponent of a fighting drop pod after they charge it .

I know it sounds kinda weird even for casual play, figured I'd throw it out there for some feedback. See if ya guys come up with anything else that could make it (hilariously) better lol.

You did just give me a good idea. I would never drop the drop pod empty: fill it with tacticals at the very least. But dropping a drop pod alongside Shrike full of goons that can immediately file out, rapid fire (with rerolls), and act as a screen to protect the HQs... I like this idea. I like it a lot. Not sure if it's 85 points worth of an idea, but I like it a lot.

Read back a few pages, but is part of the reason SM have been less competitive the nerf to the bolter? Before, all 5 and 6 armor would fall to bolter fire with no armor saves. Is this incorrect? Trying to get a feel on 8th.

I initially thought of putting a unit in the pod, but it's only one unit that'll get put down then picked back up again. Kinda a waste IMO, but then again there's nothing conventional about my crazy idea.

I'll try keeping the pod empty, leave the devatators and any of kinda of unit down range since I'll be using the RG tactics, buff the pod with a libby (cause it sounds stupidly funny and I know someone will charge it), and hide the characters out of sight behind the pod for character defense.

I will have to try it out, maybe using an IH Supreme Command Det with 3 characters with empty pod, plus the rest of my forces in like a RG Bat Det. Don't expect to win a tourney but maybe I should try it for the "angry pod" tactic lol.

Pops - while that is true of the Bolter, it's also true of Pulse, Splinter, and Shuriken too - among other weapons.

Most small arms were AP5 and are now AP-. One exception is Necron Warriors, who went to AP-1 - and Necrons did a lot worse than SM in 8th (pre-necron-codex - can't comment on that yet).

So I don't think highlighting that is helpful.

I don’t really see much point in dropping an empty pod. For the same price, or around the same, you could have a real unit. 5 deep strike reivers, for example. Same wounds as the drop pod, but guns and stuff.

Give the empty pod a go and see how it works. It might be ok, but I wouldn’t bank on it.

A pod gets 10 marines much closer to the enemy. Put marines in it.

Hmn.

Tough call.

But some tips (keep in mind that this is from my experience only and based on what you have).

I play Ultramarines

My anvil (or firebase team)

I try to have a solid backfield gun line of devastator marines. MSU but with 1 to 2 weapons per squad with a Cherub. I almost always have a 5 man 2xmissile launcher and another with 2 las cannons. I have a 3rd one just in case or depending on the mood with with MLs again or plasma cannons. Always keep a captain or one upgraded to a CM near them. having an ancient (any kind but company champion is the cheapest) carrying the standard of the Emperor also makes your opponent think twice about targeting them since you'll likely still get a shot off. You can also keep a LT nearby as well but not always necessary.

If you can find a Thunderfire get it. it won't kill that much but it helps with board control with its stratagem. Also you can hit pesky things that might be hiding out of site.

My hammer (or assault team)

Vanguard vets. Good beta or alpha strikers. Give them two chainswords for 4 attacks a piece or take a few Thunder hammers if you face vehicle heavy lists.
Drop pod. I fill it with Sternguard (no upgrades) and an Lt.
Deepstriking Captain. You can go one way or an other. J-Pack Captain or terminator captain. Take a storm shield and TH on them one way or the other. The j-pack guy will have more mobility but the Terminator one will have better armour and an extra wound. Take the shield eternal if you can.
Send in a librarian with a J-pack for smite goodness but also with veil of time to reroll any failed charges on a unit should you decide to charge with something.

I either use 2x plasma pistol heavy (3 per) assault squads. I overcharge the shooting (make sure you deepstrike near your captain that did the same) to avoid overheating casualties. or sometimes reavers if I feel more assault oriented.

note: Assault squads may not be your best choice but they can deep strike, get decent plasma off for not too many points and are mobile enough to be good harassers and objective takers. they can also break out of melee unimpeded.

Reavers are also nota bad choice to join the assault strike team but I don't think you have those.

Another thing I've been experimenting with is veterans and honour guard. veterans are cheap. cabn be given special weapons (like plasma or combi weapons). keep them in two man squads. It means the opponent will have to over commit to deal with them. An assault cannon firing at two guys is better than one firing at 5 if you get my meaning. The meaning being that the most he can kill is 2 guys and some weapons fire multiple shots that would other wise be wasted plus they can help save your characters if nearby.

Scouts help create a bubble and can act as harrassers. I play three of them. shotguns in one, bolters and HB in another. if I can manage it I have a sniper squad as well.

I use tactical squads to help control my table side of the board but they also act as a good reserve to help back up your assault strike guys. I always have at least one rhino but two would be better. again if you can, put two five man squads in each. Five man squads are better than ten due to the "free" Sgt that can unlock weapons but gives youteh extra attack in melee if ever that should happen. Take a special weapon if you can. also always pay the two points to get an extra storm bolter on your rhinos.

I have one Tact normally with a HB for range and access to hellfire card. my other two go in a rhino. bare bones with a flamer in each. My tactic is to drive up and pop smoke. Once you get near the enemy and if you survive (hoping the focus on your strike force) get the tacts out for a 9 inch move (that should put you well within charge or rapid fire range). I then move the rhino as close as I can to whatever I'm targeting. unleash 8 stormbolter shots, rapid fire from the Tacts and 2 flamers. Then I charge the Rhino in to lock up what's left. Next turn get the tacts in range for pistol shots into melee or if he backed off, rinse and repeat.

Anyways just a few thoughts that might help.

I like apothecaries but I find they aren't worth their points and are situational
Chaplains seem cool but you are better off with captains and lieutenants.
librarians are almost always an auto include. Tigurius is also good.
Not a fan of primaris unless playing Raven guard. Deep striking Hellblasters are awesome but with the ability to do that they aren't that great for me since they can be avoided or just shot up.

So get a Thunderfire and some scouts (scout bikers are also quite good)

As for allies, guard battalion of 2 Commanders and three squads with mortars. hang back, hold you side and lob 3D6 strength 4 hits at whatever you want. take Cadia and reroll hits if you are stationary.

Hope this helps a bit. there's lots more but that's what I have for now for you.

Cheers.

drbored wrote:
I'm having a heck of a time making my space marines win games... I think I've only won once in 8th edition so far, out of maybe 10-12 games? It just seems like I can't pump out enough firepower, or the enemy deletes my units with so much high ap stuff that I never get an armor save. Enemies having lots of invul saves and FNP type shenanigans also makes it difficult for me to pump out enough shots.

At my disposal I have...

Dark Imperium set (Inceptors, Hellblasters, Intercessors, Ancient, Captain, Lieutenants), along with other Primaris stuff, like a Redemptor Dreadnought, Apothecary, Librarian, Chaplain, and the P. Fist Captain
Several dreadnoughts, including 2 Ironclads, 1 Venerable, 1 regular
Tons of Tactical Marines with all sorts of weapons, plasma, melta, grav, as wel as Missile Launcher Devestators and Sniper Scouts
3 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider Redeemer, 1 Stormtalon, 1 Drop Pod
And several other character models. Chaplains, captains, barebone lieutenants, apothecary, champion, and ancient
And finally a Terminator Assault Squad with Lightning Claws and a veteran assault squad with a mix of weapons and shields. As well as Tyberos the Red Wake.

I've tried lots of combinations, using lots of librarians or lots of dreadnoughts with techmarine support. I've tried going heavy into Primaris, or alternatively spamming MSU tacticals with rhinos. I've tried the Terminators, the vanguard vets, all sorts of things, but it just never feels like enough... I've been tabled half of the times I've played, usually by turn 3 or 4...

Tips? Things to add to the army? Things I should never ever use? Things I should change up? Allies to fill in the gaps? Anything would be appreciated.

Martel732 wrote:
A pod gets 10 marines much closer to the enemy. Put marines in it.

This is what I'm thinking. The marines are relatively expendable, while also taking a bit of dedication to deal with when they're right in your face. It also gets them within 12", which is the absolute only range where Marines can be a threat.

Though I'm not convinced the extra points are worth it. For 55 points less you could have 10 gakky Assault Marines that will serve the same purpose (screen, flakk for the enemy to deal with), with the exchanged bonus of being able to get in your opponents face and tie them up/force them to reposition.

 SputnikDX wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
A pod gets 10 marines much closer to the enemy. Put marines in it.

This is what I'm thinking. The marines are relatively expendable, while also taking a bit of dedication to deal with when they're right in your face. It also gets them within 12", which is the absolute only range where Marines can be a threat.

Though I'm not convinced the extra points are worth it. For 55 points less you could have 10 gakky Assault Marines that will serve the same purpose (screen, flakk for the enemy to deal with), with the exchanged bonus of being able to get in your opponents face and tie them up/force them to reposition.

Personally, if they are only there to screen and probably rush into combat, i'd take 10 non-jump pack assault marines in the pod as opposed to 10 standard marines. Gives you those extra attacks in combat, eats the over watch, and isn't going to ruin your day if they fail.

Kdash wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
A pod gets 10 marines much closer to the enemy. Put marines in it.

This is what I'm thinking. The marines are relatively expendable, while also taking a bit of dedication to deal with when they're right in your face. It also gets them within 12", which is the absolute only range where Marines can be a threat.

Though I'm not convinced the extra points are worth it. For 55 points less you could have 10 gakky Assault Marines that will serve the same purpose (screen, flakk for the enemy to deal with), with the exchanged bonus of being able to get in your opponents face and tie them up/force them to reposition.

Personally, if they are only there to screen and probably rush into combat, i'd take 10 non-jump pack assault marines in the pod as opposed to 10 standard marines. Gives you those extra attacks in combat, eats the over watch, and isn't going to ruin your day if they fail.

The fundamental problem with drop pods is that it puts your marines within 12” of the enemy. This is nearly always a bad thing. Marines that fit in a pod aren’t especially dangerous and aren’t at all tough, so this approach is almost guaranteed to result in more of your stuff than the enemy’s.

If you at least drop assault marines, reivers or terminators, they could charge in and hit stuff, so Shrike isn’t left all by himself. But that could still happen if they fail their save.

For the price of some tactical guys with a bunch of plasma you could have a few plasma inceptors. Dropping those with shrike would actually make a bit of sense.

Mandragola wrote:
For the price of some tactical guys with a bunch of plasma you could have a few plasma inceptors. Dropping those with shrike would actually make a bit of sense.

There's no way that that's...

186 for 2x5 tacticals with Plasma and Combi Plasma (4 plasma shots at 12")
177 for 3 plasma inceptors (6D3 plasma shots at 18")

...Man. Tacs suck.

Edit: That doesn't even include the 85 points needed to deep strike that plasma.

It depends on what that enemy is. If it's an Ork Boy, yeah, don't want to be within 12" unless you've already widdled them down and now you're ready to commit. If its a Ranger or Tau Firewarrior, you certainly don't want to be more than 12" away.

Bharring wrote:
It depends on what that enemy is. If it's an Ork Boy, yeah, don't want to be within 12" unless you've already widdled them down and now you're ready to commit. If its a Ranger or Tau Firewarrior, you certainly don't want to be more than 12" away.

Yeah I think for this reason it's better to take tacticals instead of assault marines if you do wanna go Drop Pod route. If you're dealing with an army weak to an alpha strike you can drop in his face and start the suck, but if you want to play it closer because they have an army that wants to get to you you can drop marines on objectives away from the enemy and claim those, while still maintaining your 24" of plink.

Bharring wrote:
It depends on what that enemy is. If it's an Ork Boy, yeah, don't want to be within 12" unless you've already widdled them down and now you're ready to commit. If its a Ranger or Tau Firewarrior, you certainly don't want to be more than 12" away.

I guess my point is that you don’t really want to be anywhere with tactical marines if there are orks, fire warriors, rangers or pretty much anything else. They get out shot and/or out fought by almost everyone.

I’d possibly run tactical squads as 5 guys with a lascannon, as objective sitters. But I think intercessors would do the job better - and for the same price. I can’t see any other good way to run them. Transports are pricey so if you’re taking them you may as well put something worthwhile in there.

Losing the lascannon really sucks. Intercessors are really ignorable.

Nah, they are fine. 4 -1ap bolters and a krak grenade from 30" is great from a 91pt objective sitter that's hard to get rid of. 10 wounds with a 2+ save (in cover) is something your opponent is usually not gonna waste time focusing on.

If they send something that can kill them easily, it'll be worth far more points than them.

Tactical squads aren’t competitive, top SM players use scouts and Intercessors for troops.

I've been using tac squads with lascannons to great effect. But if your going this way you really need to go with the Salamander CT. It makes the lascannons really efficient.

The other good thing about being a 90 point squad is I'm not too worried about using them as chaff to slow down an enemy charge. Depending on the setup I generally have an IronClad that can counter charge on my turn to hurt the enemy unit.

Using a core of 6 x 5 man LasTacs and 3xAC/LAS Preds I've gone 5-0 so far, completely anecdotal but I've had good success with marines. Local meta is a big deal when it comes to effectiveness though. I'm still scared of facing Tau specifically.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Nah, they are fine. 4 -1ap bolters and a krak grenade from 30" is great from a 91pt objective sitter that's hard to get rid of. 10 wounds with a 2+ save (in cover) is something your opponent is usually not gonna waste time focusing on.

If they send something that can kill them easily, it'll be worth far more points than them.

That's the definition of not contributing.

 SputnikDX wrote:

 Kelligula wrote:
This entire thread makes me wish I focused more on my Scions, Custodes, and Drukhari instead of buying more Primaris...

Primaris are rumored to get lots of love in the Deathwatch codex, so you shouldn't abandon ship yet!


Also I'm at random going to just drop the list I've been using. I've made small changes to it over the course of a few games but so far the only time it failed me was my first ITC rules game and I played it poorly.

I could never abandon Gman and friends. At least we're not Grey Knights right now.

After going through all of the pages I have to say: To hell with the fluff. I'm getting Forgeworld stuff for my Primaris army.

Is the Plasma Sicaran even worth taking? It looks badass, but I don't have the FW index yet to check out rules.

Martel732 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Nah, they are fine. 4 -1ap bolters and a krak grenade from 30" is great from a 91pt objective sitter that's hard to get rid of. 10 wounds with a 2+ save (in cover) is something your opponent is usually not gonna waste time focusing on.

If they send something that can kill them easily, it'll be worth far more points than them.

That's the definition of not contributing.

You are a super troll who never has anything positive to contribute and I imagine you as a very bitter loser.

I'm not. I'm just pointing out that the decision is not as easy as some posters think. If you have 3 squads, you are giving up 3 lascannons of firepower. That can cripple one enemy tank or monster a turn, while the intercessors are just standing there waiting for a challenge that may never come. For the record, I don't think tacs are worth 13, nor are intercessors worth 18. But those are the choices here.

And I like everything about intercessors EXCEPT their weapons loadouts. I think their weapons suck for what you pay. And I have personally beaten several marine lists with ignoring intercessors till last as part of my game plan. It works well. Too well.

As for positivity, I'm sick and tired of dealing with IG this edition. Already. It's not even been a year. They fixed the conscripts and left all their other broken crap. I don't own a fire raptor, and I shouldn't have to.

I'm a very accepting loser. I have a lot of practice from 7th. And it's hard to be positive about power armor in 8th ed.

Okay then. It just sounds like SM in general is not the army for you. SM is not top tier but they are not in the garbagebin either. This is a discussion how to play the army. You have never given any solid tactical advice in this thread - all you have to say is why you don’t like the army and many many superlatives for AM which is already no longer top tier.

I don't think it's clear at all how to play them at all.

Intercessors give up important heavy weapon shots.
Tacs give up CQC and durability.
Scouts have their own little niche; mostly board control. Really flimsy, especially vs ignore cover weapons.

I give advice when I believe in what I'm saying. All I can really say at this point is "take lots of lascannons and hope you don't face quantum shields". Primaris can't take lots of lascannons, so you can see why I'm not super excited about them. The more codices that get released in 8th, the harder and harder I find it to give advice I believe will actually work.

I'm working backwards by figuring out what DOESN'T work.

See that’s why you don’t win with SM.

I don't give advice I think that might be wrong?

I think I might have a winning record with BA, which are basically marines. But the wins are usually squeakers and the losses mostly are avalanches.

Also, there's plenty of other people on here saying "fire raptors".

Thanks for the tips guys! I'll try out some new things and see if my group would be ok with me investing in a FW beast or something

Martel732 wrote:
I don't think it's clear at all how to play them at all.

Intercessors give up important heavy weapon shots.
Tacs give up CQC and durability.
Scouts have their own little niche; mostly board control. Really flimsy, especially vs ignore cover weapons.

I give advice when I believe in what I'm saying. All I can really say at this point is "take lots of lascannons and hope you don't face quantum shields". Primaris can't take lots of lascannons, so you can see why I'm not super excited about them. The more codices that get released in 8th, the harder and harder I find it to give advice I believe will actually work.

I'm working backwards by figuring out what DOESN'T work.

Honestly you can get more weapons elsewhere for less investment. Intercessors are fine overall.

 Kelligula wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:

 Kelligula wrote:
This entire thread makes me wish I focused more on my Scions, Custodes, and Drukhari instead of buying more Primaris...

Primaris are rumored to get lots of love in the Deathwatch codex, so you shouldn't abandon ship yet!


Also I'm at random going to just drop the list I've been using. I've made small changes to it over the course of a few games but so far the only time it failed me was my first ITC rules game and I played it poorly.

I could never abandon Gman and friends. At least we're not Grey Knights right now.

After going through all of the pages I have to say: To hell with the fluff. I'm getting Forgeworld stuff for my Primaris army.

Is the Plasma Sicaran even worth taking? It looks badass, but I don't have the FW index yet to check out rules.

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be in the FW index, but also while I like sicarans, they do suffer from not having an invulnerable, I'm giving them one with a deredeo dreadnaught, but this kind limits mobility but helps against that first turn damage.
Also they need to be screened well as they lack chapter tactics.
Mortis contemptors are a good unit and a leviathan dread makes one very good distraction threat that takes work to remove.
It's unfortunately not enough to push marines up to tournament viable, but it kinda starts making them actually playable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
While I get what both sides are saying about intercessors vrs tacs, to me the really big stand out is the sifference in what else is in your lists, Appologies if I'm not 100% as I'm running on memory here.
Martel is running mostly single wound marines, with lots of deepstrike and CC meaning intercessors in his list are the most likely to be the prime target for multi damage weapons, as they don't have a better target.
Primark your running a custodes list backed up with some intercessors, the custodes are all multiwound and more danagerous than intercessors, hence your intercessors are ignorable to your opponents, who are concentrating their multi damage weapons on your custodes. Their survival is because they aren't really that scary so can be ignored untill your custodes have been dealt with.

Intercessors in isolation are better than tacs due to getting a cheap second wound and better weapon. However this all fall down if they become the best target for anti tank weapons as killing intercessors with anti tank is more efficent that plinking tacs of one at a time.