8th ed CHAOS tactica

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**Gordon Shumway**

mrhappyface wrote:
Didn't the FAQ make it that Hellwrights can't actually heal Hellforged models anymore because of their caged Daemon (or whatever it's called rule)? Makes Hellwrights pretty useless.

Here:

Pages 12-29
– Machina Malefica
Change this ability in all instances to read:
‘At the end of each Fight phase, roll a number of D6
for this model equal to the number of models that were
slain by it during this phase; for each dice that scores
a 5+, this model regains one lost wound. This model
cannot regain lost wounds by any other means.’

That's what I meant when I said their heal only works on codex daemon engines (as opposed to FW ones), sorry if that wasn't clear.

**mrhappyface**

Niiru wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the Hellwright? With or without the Dark Abeyance?

In the 1D4chan tactica (maybe not the most reliable source of unit overviews, but it's the only one out there that I know of), the Hellsmith is generally described as being a Warpsmith+1, with a couple stat boosts and a better weapon, and the option of having the Dark Abeyance.

...But it says that it's a worthwhile upgrade because "He is an extra twelve points compared to the Warpsmith".

Except that when I work it out, the basic Hellwright is actually 50 points more than a Warpsmith (83 to 133), and the Dark Abeyance version boosts that up to 178 points.

For that you get +1S, +1T, +1W, a soulburner and a better Axe, and the Aura that gives only Hellforged vehicles +1 Attack. (With the abeyance you get another wound, and 2" of movement, and an extra Heavy weapon that I couldn't judge if it's good or bad).

Thoughts? I mean for 10 more points you could get a psychic Daemon Prince. Pretty sure you can get a Chaos Lord + Sorceror for that kind of points. I do want the Hellwright to be worth it's points though, as it would be a fluffy fit for my army.

1d4chan can be a great way to share information... if users updated the tactica when they found some new use for something, there is a new release or an FAQ has come out.

**scommy**

Anyone been using 20 man units with a chaos lord? With the 2 CP shoot twice thing and reroll 1s... suits Iron Warriors I can say.
Or even a 9 man biker unit+lordbiker, get into rapid fire range, then shoot again... thats 80 bolter shots rerolling ones..

**Insectum7**

I was thinking of trying something like that with Terminators and their combi-weapons. Or just Obliterators.

**ZergSmasher**

I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

**orkswubwub**

I don't play competitively but I don't see mutilators having much use, even with warp time / advancing - the movement range gimps them so hard. 4 inch movement? Isn't there concern of getting kited?

**Marius Xerxes**

ZergSmasher wrote:
Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

I have converted Oblits made from Cyclops Demolition Vehicles from Forge World and Terminators. Came out pretty good I think.

**Gordon Shumway**

ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

I'm going to be using skaven stormfiends as a base for some kitbashed ones. Shouldn't be too tricky.

**Eldenfirefly**

It seems like Alpha legion is the best way to play berserkers actually, because of forward operatives. Have some cultist squads for objectives. Then have a bike sorceror for warp time, and a jump pack lord for rerolls of 1.

Then, bring one big squad of warptalons, and three big squad of berserkers.

Hope you get to go first. Use forward operatives to put 60 zerkers within 9.1 inches. Then advance move your sorceror 20 inches, jump pack in your lord, and your ten warp talons. Warp time the warp talons, charge them in first. They tie up everyone in combat. The rest of the zerkers then charge in.

With so much close combat, it might be better to bring zerkers with pistols instead of chainsword so that you can use your pistols to kill off any bubble wrap in front of you so that you can get to the more valuable units beyond.

If you go second, or opponent seizes initiative though... erm good luck! lol

**luke1705**

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

This was the BfS Nova-Prep event I take it? I missed going (thanks elevator...), but I heard it was the Magnus show top-to-bottom. I'm disappointed I didn't get to go as I had expected that and a horde meta, and had built accordingly. :-p

And yeah... Chaos is in pretty excellent competitive shape, not the least reason being that Chaos Strategems are outright incredible.

Yeah there were at least 8 Magnus players that I saw. At least a few chaos players had not brought him. I remember when I did that. Oh youth

It really was a great event though. Signed up for their October GT on the spot. Of course, it helps that I can drive back and forth and don't need a hotel for that

**buddha**

What do people think about a cult marine party bus rhino? I feel like you can complement weaknesses and strengths well.

Example would be 5 berserkers with 5 noise Marines with somic blasters/blast master. Drive forward and unload hell with both shooting and CC.

**luke1705**

buddha wrote:
What do people think about a cult marine party bus rhino? I feel like you can complement weaknesses and strengths well.

Example would be 5 berserkers with 5 noise Marines with somic blasters/blast master. Drive forward and unload hell with both shooting and CC.

I think you should probably just do a dedicated rhino for each squad of 10. Not often that they both want to be in the same place

**saint_red**

I think Rubrics and Berzerkers could work pretty well. Rubrics want to be within 12 with their bolters and even closer with the flamers, so they can get nice and close while the Berzerkers keep them protected from close combat.

**Rydria**

I don't see the value in cqc noise marines in a undevided warband berserkers and rubics are much better at the rhino rush.

**lindsay40k**

Five Berzerkers aren't going to do much to stop a charge, it won't take much to just shoot them out the way. In fact, they are potentially a liability - a canny foe may charge the zerks, and then position in a way that enables them to pile in to the rubrics without facing their overwatch. In fact, don't Flamer Rubrics often *want* to be charged, for the extra free hits? And if you want a small screening unit that can ride in a Rhino, surely the 2W, 5++, and foot speed of Possessed makes them ideal?

**Bluthusten**

Alpha Legion Possessed with mark of Tzeentch are awesome supported by Changeling / Herald

**Cephalobeard**

Bluthusten wrote:
Alpha Legion Possessed with mark of Tzeentch are awesome supported by Changeling / Herald

I'm hoping to test out some possessed soon. As, I agree, they're great as Alphas and with the Changeling.

**luke1705**

saint_red wrote:
I think Rubrics and Berzerkers could work pretty well. Rubrics want to be within 12 with their bolters and even closer with the flamers, so they can get nice and close while the Berzerkers keep them protected from close combat.

The issue for me is that you lose flexibility. Yes they can have some of the same targets, but usually when you hit a squad of chaff units with berserkers, it's not like you say "man I wish I had shot them a few more times". Morale usually caps the squad.

**whembly**

Weird question ya'll...

Is there anything you can bring in your army that can force your maelific lords to auto peril? I heard some rumblings about that in my last tournament, but I can't think of anything because everything in your army is a "friendly target" and nothing comes to mind that would force it.

I guess the idea is to trigger the lords "mini-daemon prince stats" early enough in the game so that they'll survive the perils d3 MW test.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

I just ordered some "Not Obliterators" from both Hitech Miniatures, and Wargames Exclusive. Both have, from the images at least, some gorgeous knock-offs.

**Cephalobeard**

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

I just ordered some "Not Obliterators" from both Hitech Miniatures, and Wargames Exclusive. Both have, from the images at least, some gorgeous knock-offs.

I converted Aggressors. I like how they look.

**Red Corsair**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

I'm going to be using skaven stormfiends as a base for some kitbashed ones. Shouldn't be too tricky.

WAY too big though. They are on 40mm bases, the storm fiends are on 60's. Messing with base size doesn't bother too many folks when it's a character conversion but a full unit starts to impact the game with that footprint.

I'd imagine Kataphron destroyers would make a pretty easy and awesome looking base for obliterators. The Myrmadon mechanicum models from forgeworld are also perfect.

**Badablack**

Possessed and Warp Talons take advantage of force multipliers like no one else. They double dip from all chaos buffs and are affected by all spells, so there's a ton of combos you can do with them. All the heralds, changeling, tallyman, legion tactics, etc.

**Red Corsair**

Eldenfirefly wrote:
It seems like Alpha legion is the best way to play berserkers actually, because of forward operatives. Have some cultist squads for objectives. Then have a bike sorceror for warp time, and a jump pack lord for rerolls of 1.

Then, bring one big squad of warptalons, and three big squad of berserkers.

Hope you get to go first. Use forward operatives to put 60 zerkers within 9.1 inches. Then advance move your sorceror 20 inches, jump pack in your lord, and your ten warp talons. Warp time the warp talons, charge them in first. They tie up everyone in combat. The rest of the zerkers then charge in.

With so much close combat, it might be better to bring zerkers with pistols instead of chainsword so that you can use your pistols to kill off any bubble wrap in front of you so that you can get to the more valuable units beyond.

If you go second, or opponent seizes initiative though... erm good luck! lol

Or if they have transports, or a superheavy that fights CC or many other things. It's a fun list for a game or two but then it loses it's charm fast. I mean a flier and two transports would basically shield from that list, and those are common elements to your average list that wouldn't even need to be prepared for it.

**lindsay40k**

Cultists vs Rhinos for screening, what's people's opinions?

**Insectum7**

lindsay40k wrote:
Cultists vs Rhinos for screening, what's people's opinions?

A good contender IMO, since the Rhino can pull double-duty as a transport. Cultists are sooo cheap though and can have a huge footprint. I lean towards taking both

**mrhappyface**

lindsay40k wrote:
Cultists vs Rhinos for screening, what's people's opinions?

I'd say cultists for screening since I tend to use rhinos as overwatch fodder.

**Gordon Shumway**

Red Corsair wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

I'm going to be using skaven stormfiends as a base for some kitbashed ones. Shouldn't be too tricky.

WAY too big though. They are on 40mm bases, the storm fiends are on 60's. Messing with base size doesn't bother too many folks when it's a character conversion but a full unit starts to impact the game with that footprint.

I'd imagine Kataphron destroyers would make a pretty easy and awesome looking base for obliterators. The Myrmadon mechanicum models from forgeworld are also perfect.

Meh, I view it as modeling for disadvantage (which I can't believe anybody would care about). Oblits want to be anywhere except in combat. I'm only planning on making one unit though, so it shouldn't be a big deal for denial purposes. Also, if it is an issue, I can always put them on 40mm bases as their actual footprint is pretty small.

**Cptn_Snuggles**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd love to run some Obliterators, but I absolutely hate the models. Do any of you guys know of any good "counts-as" type models for Obliterators? Failing that, is there anything that would relatively easily be converted into Obliterators?

Also, how do people feel about Obliterators' melee cousins, the Mutilators? Are they worth their points?

I'm going to be using skaven stormfiends as a base for some kitbashed ones. Shouldn't be too tricky.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Just picked up the stormfiends box the other day and am going to remove the tails and swap out the head for an ogryn (or similar head). I'll be putting them on 40's to keep base sizing correct. Once I convert them up, I'll post some pictures.

**McGibs**

I just finished repainting my Ogryn Obliterators. They were a fun conversion, if you're looking for something that isn't cheese-melt-terminators.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/737792.page

On another note:
Has anyone tried using Renegade artilery to supplement a CSM force? I know R&H infantry got crippled, but some of the IG big guns seem like they'd be nice to sit in the back while short/mid ranged CSM killers apply pressure.
I'm currently looking to try a Collosus Bombard and maybe some Basilisk batteries in a spearhead detachment (good place to stick a mal lord without messing with legion tacitcs too).
For 150pts, the Bombard spits out 2D6 S6 AP-2 D D3 shots that can hit anywhere on the table, even out of sight. My berserker waves have often had trouble with devistators or other firesupport units tucked away behind the front lines, so some arty seems like a nice addition.