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2018/05/16 12:48:50
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I like the base foundation of the list, it's got a lot in common with my 1500 local tournament list.
I don't know what decimators are or how good they are so I can't comment on those.
As for the tzaangors I think you may have better luck with 19 then 29. Your not normally going to get all of them in when you charge even with 19 and the extra 10 models will make it harder for finding a drop zone with the crystal. With the extra points you can turn one of those sorcerers into a deamon prince, our dp units are so good it's a crime not to use one.
2018/05/16 13:13:50
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Vanguard
Sorcerer (Helm of the Third Eye)
Chaos decimators with soul burners x3
2000 points
8cp (after relics)
Basically low drops - hope to go first, rubrics start in rhinos of course. Throw the vortex beasts up the board with warptime and pop mortal aura and have the tzaangors drop in with the dark matter crystal to give them something to worry about besides the decimators. In the meantime, most spells are going to be damaging (smite/doombolt/infernal gaze/gift of chaos/maaaaybe firestorm) as opposed to protection to really put the hurt in. Rubrics are the antiscreen and would be used for weaver/glamour.
It gives up BGH pretty easily but not much else for ITC (I think) - reaper would be a guaranteed 2 but capped, and headhunter is 3 but would essentially have to wipe my forces to get it.
Going for pure TSons - Most CP going to daemonforge, cabalistic forces, blasphamous machines, VOTLW, warpflame gargoyles, and maybe baleful vortex...
If I'm not mistaken the vortex beasts can stack the -1 ap aura too on the tzaangors(?) should make them shred although I'd have to hit an 8 inch charge with rerolls... At minimum the tzaangors should soak some damage.
Smite spam is basically my counter-charge.
list is too squishy for serious competitive play but thoughts? Maybe drop the rhinos and go for webway infiltration put points towards something else?
I like the Rhinos even though it's difficult to justify the cost. They are a perfect little thing to use warpflame gargoyles with. On the other hand, 9 strong Rubric units are survivable enough that they don't really need it.
I would find some points to upgrade one of your sorcerers to an exalted. This will give your decimators access to the reroll auras. With some more points you can go for the disc + double sword + seer's bane combo too. Although at that point, just get a Daemon Prince right?
As usual with TS, your list has a very low model count and is very slow. I also don't see the purpose of the vortex beasts, you only have one unit of tzaangors and honestly they are mostly there to act as a distraction carnifex than they are to win you the game.
14000
15000
4000
2018/05/16 21:28:59
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
So, I must be misunderstanding the format that lists are posted in this thread/Dakka. Are the units ending in 9 being fielded as under-strength units, or are we just assuming that the sergeant is included to bring the unit up to full strength?
For your list, I’d agree with others and suggest that you try and fit an exalted sorcerer or deamon prince in, so the Defilers benefit from the reroll aura. You may also want to fit in at least one butcher cannon to help deal with hordes. Mortal wounds are awesome, but can make dealing with multiple blobs of chaff hard without morale modifiers.
2018/05/16 21:41:13
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Vanguard
Sorcerer (Helm of the Third Eye)
Chaos decimators with soul burners x3
2000 points
8cp (after relics)
Basically low drops - hope to go first, rubrics start in rhinos of course. Throw the vortex beasts up the board with warptime and pop mortal aura and have the tzaangors drop in with the dark matter crystal to give them something to worry about besides the decimators. In the meantime, most spells are going to be damaging (smite/doombolt/infernal gaze/gift of chaos/maaaaybe firestorm) as opposed to protection to really put the hurt in. Rubrics are the antiscreen and would be used for weaver/glamour.
It gives up BGH pretty easily but not much else for ITC (I think) - reaper would be a guaranteed 2 but capped, and headhunter is 3 but would essentially have to wipe my forces to get it.
Going for pure TSons - Most CP going to daemonforge, cabalistic forces, blasphamous machines, VOTLW, warpflame gargoyles, and maybe baleful vortex...
If I'm not mistaken the vortex beasts can stack the -1 ap aura too on the tzaangors(?) should make them shred although I'd have to hit an 8 inch charge with rerolls... At minimum the tzaangors should soak some damage.
Smite spam is basically my counter-charge.
list is too squishy for serious competitive play but thoughts? Maybe drop the rhinos and go for webway infiltration put points towards something else?
I like the Rhinos even though it's difficult to justify the cost. They are a perfect little thing to use warpflame gargoyles with. On the other hand, 9 strong Rubric units are survivable enough that they don't really need it.
I would find some points to upgrade one of your sorcerers to an exalted. This will give your decimators access to the reroll auras. With some more points you can go for the disc + double sword + seer's bane combo too. Although at that point, just get a Daemon Prince right?
As usual with TS, your list has a very low model count and is very slow. I also don't see the purpose of the vortex beasts, you only have one unit of tzaangors and honestly they are mostly there to act as a distraction carnifex than they are to win you the game.
Bringing the beasts more or less for the mortal wound aura. Having to choose target priority between decimators doing mortals or the beasts popping 1 mortal (or up to 3 mortals on one unit on 4+ roll) in 9 inches - trying to saturate possible target options to ensure strong mortals coming through every turn. If the aura even goes off once on each beast at 18 inches and hits 4-5 units the unit nearly pays for itself (plus maybe one melee)?
Maybe I'll swap one petard on the decimator to butcher cannon - this will open up the possible morale concern and save some points, which I can probably snip into that aspiring sorcerer / DP everyone is hinting at.
Units are at strength 9 because it clocks in under reaper on ITC rules.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/16 22:23:12
2018/05/17 15:39:29
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Had a couple game of trial and error since jumping back into the game. The biggest problem I have found is I lack a significant ranged anti tank punch. The 4 main options I see (Exalted Flamer, Burning Chariot, Lascannon/Missle Helbrute, and quad Lascannon Predator) don't appeal to me for different reasons.
But I have just found the TS Contemptor on FW. What is the opinion of running 2 with twin C Beams for a ranged anti tank base? I guess it should be noted I am also running an Aetherstride Daemon Prince and Magnus, so that should be a bit distracting.
2018/05/17 16:27:31
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Doesn't look like a Thousand Sons list at all. Why say you're playing thousand sons at all if you're just playing a bunch of daemon princes and 120 cultists?
I didn't said "I play TS at all". Why I should play mono TS list when I can combine more chaos army?
I found this imperial guard list online. What do you think?
Company Commander
Company Commander
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Custode Bike Shield-Captain
Custode Bike Shield-Captain
Custode Bike Shield-Captain
What are you supposed to say other than "yep, those sure are three different thousand sons units that everyone knows are competitive in that soup list you just posted. Looks good. It'll win you events. Hope you get finished painting your 120 cultists before GW nerfs them, good luck!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AverageBoss wrote: Had a couple game of trial and error since jumping back into the game. The biggest problem I have found is I lack a significant ranged anti tank punch. The 4 main options I see (Exalted Flamer, Burning Chariot, Lascannon/Missle Helbrute, and quad Lascannon Predator) don't appeal to me for different reasons.
But I have just found the TS Contemptor on FW. What is the opinion of running 2 with twin C Beams for a ranged anti tank base? I guess it should be noted I am also running an Aetherstride Daemon Prince and Magnus, so that should be a bit distracting.
C-beams are fine, but personally for me it's butcher cannons or bust. The big drawback to autocannon type weaponry as opposed to lascannons S7 vs the S8+ meaning you wound the vast majority of tanks in the game on 4s or 5s rather than 3s or 4s. Butcher cannons fix that, and have a cute little morale rule as a little cherry on top if you decide to open up on some primaris marines or something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 16:31:24
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2018/05/17 19:07:34
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
AverageBoss wrote: But I have just found the TS Contemptor on FW. What is the opinion of running 2 with twin C Beams for a ranged anti tank base? I guess it should be noted I am also running an Aetherstride Daemon Prince and Magnus, so that should be a bit distracting.
I love them, I think they're the single best model TSs have available to them. I have two myself, and normally run one with double chainfist and ectoplasma blasters and one with double c-beam or double butchers. Mr Fisto is a horror with 4++ in CC and 5 attacks, -4/4D, and has a base 9" range so is a great candidate for warptime. His guns are legit too, but only have an 18" range.
C-beam is the coolest weapon, but Butcher cannons just seems to wreck face for some reason. They are flexible, in that they can shake a unit up before a charge, for example, causing a lot of models to flee, or they can drop an expected 5 damage on a predator. They make good terminator hunters, but also are well suited to lighter armoured units, so are happy shooting at Drukhari. A flexible weapon.
Buy them. they're good units but better models, you'll have a lot of fun putting them on the table.
Finally, their aesthetic helps tip your army back to a more Rubricae theme, if you're running Tzaangors.
2018/05/18 08:36:18
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I'm running 2 contemptors with 1 butcher and 1 c-beam each this weekend at the LGT. Will let everyone know how that setup does or whether double butcher just seems better.
2018/05/19 03:29:59
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I appreciate all the feedback. Though there seems to be a few quite different opinions on how to run them. I suppose I should have posted the rest of my planned list so everyone would have a better idea of what would compliment it best.
My funds are limited, so I have to pick my arms carefully. I will probably go with 2 Osiris (I like that sculpt far more). I will probably be able to get away with using its included arm as a chainfist locally due to the attached sword. Then with the sale that is going on, I can buy two arms/weapons and get 2 free.
Your deamon allies seems odd. Are you doing that for cheap cp?
Your list seems to have a few big hitters and a lot of other stuff that can just be ignored. 3x10 brimstones, 2 changecasters, 2x10 cultists , these are easy to kill objective holders at best.
So my question is what kind of games do you normally play? Maelstrom? Open war?
2018/05/19 06:10:34
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
The Daemon allies are there for cheap CP, easy access to Flamers, and 2 Gaze of Fate caddies with the Changecasters.
Cultists and Brimstones are there for objective holding, and chaff. 170 points for 50 wounds seemed like an okay investment to me.
As for Maelstrom and Open. Not sure what my club regularly plays. Just getting back in from a hiatus stretching back to the start of 5th ed, so out of the loop.
2018/05/19 11:48:45
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Played my first game with the Ksons today at my new LGS.
for 2000 points I fielded everything I have put together thus far
Magnus
Ahriman on disc
3 units of 5 SOT with soulreaper and misses
10 rubrics with soul reaper
10 rubrics with soul reaper and 6 warp flamers
rhino
rhino
not an optimum list, but it's what I had put together
played against IG/custodes army with:
Pask
LRBT LRBT LRBT
company commander
primaries psyker
10 guard with a plasma gun
10 guard with a plasma gun
10 guard with a plasma gun
I lost by a narrow margin but I should have flown Magnus into the tank company turn one instead of going after and killing a jet bike squad.
Ahriman can mix it up in combat better than you'd think with the 3 flat damage from his staff.
overall, my list had a tough time with all the multiple wound models with insulin saves. Magnus used death hex to wipe out bikers on two turns but died at the bottom of turn 2 after getting 3 combat phases. Ahriman, one SOT squad, the rubric squad with 8 bolters and a rhino lived to the end of the game with me playing catchup on objective points at the top of each turn.
for 40k
skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.
for infinity
2018/05/20 16:00:42
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Our biggest weakness atm is anti tank. There are a lot of options for a solution but in the end our best option is to punch the tank, which isn't the best option. :p
How did you like scarab occult terms? I run mostly rubrics but have been thinking of picking a few up and trying them.
2018/05/20 19:05:08
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Their shot output was respectable, and with VOTLW they did ok against the customs bikers, but as they had a 4+inv save they didn't shred them by any means. Also, against the LRBTs, they needed 6's to wound in melee but if that happened it was almost always going through. Also, I forgot to fire my hellfire missiles for the entire game. I also did not fire the warp flame pistols into combat during my shooting phases at all during the game. Mini smites actually added non-trivial damage throughout the game to the high toughness models.
In cover, they were getting 3+ saves against battle cannons, which was pretty decent.
Overall, my WF rubric squad died trivially even when in cover to many lasgun and battle cannon shots. One scarab term squad died to a slew of bad save rolls from hurricane bolters and my opponent could not miss (even with -1 to hit and no rerolls against Magnus one turn, only 1 out of 36 shots missed him. on another occasion, 36 shots yielded 23 wounds against the terminators.)
It was nice to drop down unmolested and shoot 20 shots into a target with a chance of charging. Also, getting spells where you need them is helpful; temporal manipulation on Magnus, prescience on the inferno bolter rubrics and such.
Automatically Appended Next Post: just to add, the only weapons the rubric rule meant anything against for the entire game was heavy bolter shots. So not really an ideal matchup for sure.
Also, spell selection is such a huge part of the game when you have so many casters. I put death hex on Magnus, which compelled me to go after the custodes with him, but it would have been better to have DH on Ahriman and have Magnus go after the tank company. Be smart about spell selection.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 19:18:52
for 40k
skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.
for infinity
2018/05/20 21:43:45
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Kdash wrote: Just got home from the 40k London GT. Will do a write up of my games and thoughts tomorrow when i'm more awake.
Certainly was more of an "all or nothing" feel to my army though.
look forward to it.
I am trying to come up with a solution at 1500 pts to the "Dark Eldar Raider/Ravager" nonsense. A single Archon giving rerolls to hits and wounds and the Ravager buying a Raider for the BlackHeart group then putting a different group into the raiders (Warriors with the +6" increase to the range rules) is a pain to deal with. Add in Venoms from the same group the warriors came from with dual splinter cannons they can really hurt our Mutalith / Deamon Princes and put the hurt on any vehicles we take, even with our invun saves if they get first turn we can say goodbye to a defiler or 2.
I don't want to go to another codex, but will if thats the best option without going forgeworld. Its why I was interested in the Scarab Occult Terms. I did have luck dropping 20 rubrics in and blasting away with Vets of the Long War, but thats a 400+ pt answer that I am not sure is the best.
2018/05/21 09:39:15
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Is the Contemptor Dread from FW actually a valuable addition to your TS army?
I always like the models and wanted to paint some just for joy, but with the final goal of an army.
I don't know in which spot TS are in today, I guess they're not overly competitive, but can they hold their own?
Are Tzaangors and their weird models a good addition to run? I wouldn't mind a Tzang squad and a Shaman, but I wouldn't want to go all crazy about them. They look ridiculous.
2018/05/21 10:58:32
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Ok, so, time to go over how I did at the London 40kGT, with my pure Thousand Sons list.
For starters, I’ll recap my list in the spoiler below.
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment, Thousand Sons [862 points] +5 CP HQ1: Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch (166)
HQ2: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (146), Malefic Talon (0), Malefic Talon (10), Wings (24) – WARLORD - [180pts] – Aetherstride trait
HQ3: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (146), Malefic Talon (0), Malefic Talon (10), Wings (24) – [180pts] – Dark Matter Crystal
Troop1: 12 Chaos Cultists, 12x Autogun - [48pts]
Troop2: Rubric Marines – [107pts]
Troop3: Rubric Marines – [107pts]
Transport1: Chaos Rhino, 2x Combi-bolter – [74pts]
Vanguard Detachment, Thousand Sons [693 points] +1 CP HQ1: Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolt Pistol, 2x Power Sword (8) - [141pts] – Helm of the Third Eye
Elite1: Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought, Butcher cannon, C-beam cannon – [163pts]
Elite2: Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought, Butcher cannon, C-beam cannon – [163pts]
Elite3: Scarab Occult Terminators, Hellfyre Missile Rack, – [226pts]
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, Thousand Sons [445 points] +0 CP LoW1: Magnus the – [445pts]
So, each game was a mix of Eternal War and Maelstrom missions, game types are below. All Tertiary missions were the same throughout - First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord.
Spoiler:
GAME 1
Eternal War - Dominate and Destroy,
Maelstrom - Tactical Gambit
Map – Search and Destroy
GAME 2 Eternal War – No Mercy,
Maelstrom - Spoils of War
Deployment Map – Dawn of War
GAME 3
Eternal War - MODIFIED Big Guns Never Tire (only objectives 1 to 4 count for scoring purposes),
Maelstrom - Contact Lost
Deployment Map - Vanguard
GAME 4
Eternal War – MODIFIED Resupply Drop (eliminate 2 objectives rather than 4),
Maelstrom - MODIFIED Race to Victory (only maelstrom scoring stops when a player achieves 10 objectives, the game continues as normal)
Deployment Map - Search and Destroy
GAME 5
Eternal War - MODIFIED Frontline Warfare (you may score the points for eternal war every turn, not at the end of the game),
Maelstrom - Kill Confirmed
Deployment Map – Frontline Assault
Game 1, I was up against Ultramarines. No BobbyG, but a Captain that was upgraded to a Chapter Master and a Lieutenant. Decent guy, he and 2 others had travelled across from France to take part.
Spoiler:
His list was –
Battalion
Captain with Santic Halo (Warlord and upgraded to Chapter Master)
Lieutenant
2x 5 scouts with bolters
1x 5 scouts with snipers
Apothecary
Company Ancient with relic banner
1x 5 Hellblasters
1 dakka Repulsor
Spearhead
Chronus
1x 4 lascannon Predator
3x Devestators with 4 lascannons and Cherubs
1x Stormraven with heavy bolters, hurricane bolters and assault cannon
Disatous game for me. I didn’t get first turn. Had nowhere to hide Magnus. I lost Magnus, my Rhino, 1 Contemptor and my Cultist screen on his 1st turn.
My 1st turn saw me get 4.5 perils (I re-rolled 1 6 into another 6….) I made a mistake here as well. I forgot about casting Gaze of Fate first, so I might have been able to stop 1 of the perils. As it stood, Ahriman killed himself to perils 1st turn and my Exalted Sorcerer dropped 2 wounds.
Both princes managed to get charges off, but the Warlord failed to kill the Hellblasters and the other prince only killed 2 of the lascannons from 1 team, which was pretty disappointing. I also managed to kill the Lieutenant through psychic powers.
I survived reasonably ok turn 2, dropping a few wounds on things and loosing 1 rubric squad. My turn 2 saw my terminators drop in and kill 1 lascannon team in shooting, but, they then made the charge into some scouts and failed to kill them. After 2 turns of combat there was 1 scout left. Extremely disappointing!!!
I also kept forgetting about the missiles. Might have helped with a couple of wounds here and there, but wouldn’t have swung the game for me.
It was all over by the end of his turn 4.
In total, I think I killed maybe 4 units. He did say after though, that had I gone first things would have been in my favour. Biggest thing I took from this is that Magnus still dies waaaay too easily in most situations and that my list was playing as an “all or nothing” style.
Final score was 35-8 to the Marines.
Game 2, I was up against a player running Guard and Blood Angels.
Spoiler:
His list was
Guard Brigade
3x company commander
1x primaris psyker
6x infantry squad with vox casters
1x 6 bullgrynes
2x command squads with standards and vox casters
3x 1 scout sentinels with autocannons
3x 3 lascannon heavy weapon squads
Vanguard
Captain – storm shield, thunder hammer, angels wing and the warlord trait for +1 damage on the hammer.
Lemartes
2x 10 death company with 2 thunder hammers
1x 5 basic sternguard
1 drop pod
So, this game started out really well for me. I killed the sentinels, a couple of guard squads, 1 lascannon base and 2 of the bullgryn, whereas his 1st turn saw nothing of mine die. He did however start to blob up his units, starting with 2 of his heavy weapon squads (which I now think was done incorrectly, due to it only working on Infantry Squads – did not make a difference though)
Turn 2, I killed the bullgryn unit and primaris psyker, but then only half killed some squads. Terminators dropped in and failed to shoot 1 infantry squad to death then failed their charge into another. His turn 2, saw 2 infantry squads blob together and all his deep striking came in. 1 Squad of Death company, Lemartes and the Captain all successfully charged Magnus and killed him – even with -1 to hit and a 3++. I did interrupt and pretty much kill the entire of 1 Death Company squad though, with Magnus. Non warlord Prince died to weight of fire, the 2nd Death company squad dropped in and charged and killed my Exalted Sorcerer and the Sternguard dropped in back field and did no damage.
Turn 3, saw my Terminators fail to do anything again, and failed their charge again. Moving 4” really sucks at times! I cleared up a couple of units and the Terminators finally killed the 2 squads they were after and managed to claim an outstanding maelstrom objective card. Contemptors did a handful of wounds to the full Death Company squad and 1 squad of Rubrics dropped the Sternguard down to 2 models. His turn 3 saw him start to pull back in terms of points. His Captain and Lemartes started doing all the work. Killed Ahriman this turn and moved toward my Warlord. His 7 large Death Company unit charged one of my Contemptors and did nothing to it, while the Contemptor killed 2 of the Death Company.
Turn 4 I thought my Warlord could kill the Captain. Turns out I was wrong…. Terminators did a couple of wounds, Rhino and Rubrics hardly did anything. He killed my warlord in the fight phase. His turn saw him kill one squad of Rubrics and that was it.
The game ended at this point due to time.
Final score was 22-20 to him. The final turn saw him swing the points back.
Again, had Magnus survived I would have easily won, but, 4 damage Thunder hammer attacks hurt, especially when wounding on 2’s.
I DID FORGET ABOUT DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR IN BOTH THIS GAME AND GAME 1 THOUGH BECAUSE I AM AN IDIOT!!!!!
I focused too much on making sure I was getting my share of turns in and following my plan that I forgot about the extra attacks.
Game 3, I was up against a mix of Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons.
Spoiler:
His list was
Battalion
Typhus
1x Plaguecaster
2x 5 Plague marines – 1 with 2 blight launchers and 1 with 3 plasma.
1x 20 Plaguebearers
1x Blightbringer
3x Plagueburst Crawlers
Outrider
1x Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings and Axe
2x 1 Bloat-drone with plague spitters
1x 1 bloat-drone with fleshmower
2x 3 plague drones
Turn 1 saw me get 1st turn charges with 1 prince and Magnus into his daemon drones, while my warlord failed his charge. I also all but killed both his plague marine squads. I left 1 drone squad with 1 remaining and the other with 2 remaining. His 1st turn saw him try to pile everything into Magnus, but he survived it easily. His Fleshmower managed to drop my warlord down to 2 wounds though.
Turn 2 saw his main flank just collapse. The prince started continually tie up the crawler that was on that side of the table while Magnus destroyed everything else. A combination of psychic and melee saw his caster, both shooting drones, both squads of daemon drones and the plague marines killed. I also left the fleshmower on 1 wound after running my Warlord away in an attempt to actually not suicide him again… My terminators actually did something this game. They dropped down and killed the blightbringer in shooting, then charged the plaguebearers. They were then tied up for the next 2 full turns. His turn 2 saw his fleshmower chase my warlord. Didn’t kill him in combat, but, I made him explode after so my warlord still died :( The 2 crawlers that could shoot again failed to do many wounds to Magnus. After this point, I just kept locking up 2 crawlers with my Rhino and 1 Prince.
Final score was 24-6 to me. I didn’t manage to kill a single crawler so I didn’t get any big game hunter eternal war points, but I managed to hold the 4 main objectives at the end of the game.
Day 2, started off with my vs Necrons, on table 97 out of 183.
Game 4
Vanguard (novokh)
1x Overlord – warlord, veil of Darkness
Deceiver C’Tan
1x 13 flayed ones
1x 10 Lychguard with warscythes
So, I got turn 1, put the C’tan down to 2 wounds in the psychic phase and killed a whole lot of warriors. Killed a couple of destroyers as well. I also did something different this game. Instead of deep striking the Terminators, I started them on the table and used the Crystal on them. This worked well, until I failed their charge, Magnus’ charge and the charge on both Princes. His turn 1 saw a lot of his dead pile come back to life and his Lychguard dropped in behind my Terminators then killed them in combat. His destroyers put 3 wounds on Magnus.
Turn 2 saw me take control. I killed his normal Overlord, lord and Cryptek (he used the stratagem to bring the overlord back). I also killed the squad of 20 warriors and half killed the others. His turn 2 saw his Lychguard charge Magnus, but they failed to do anywhere close to enough damage. Magnus then killed them in combat and via morale.
By the end of my turn 4, I had tabled him.
Final score was 37-5 to me.
Game 5, I was up against Aeldari.
Spoiler:
His list was
Patrol – black heart – Drukari
Archon – warlord + living muse relic
1x 20 kabalites with 2 splinter cannons
Battalion – Craftworlds – Alaitoc
Autarch Skyrunner with fusion gun and laser and Phoenix Gem relic
1x Farseer
1x 20 Guardians with 2 Shruiken Cannons
2x 5 Rangers
1x Bonesinger (for fun as much as anything)
1x 5 Swooping Hawks
1x Hemlock
2x Wave Serpent with triple Shuriken Cannons
Spearhead – Craftworlds – Alaitoc
1x Autarch with Reaper Launcher
3x 1 Fire Prisms
So, I got first turn, had a fantastic psychic phase. Half killed 1 Wave Serpent, and then killed the 2nd in Combat with Magnus. I used the Crystal on the Terminators again, and they managed to get a charge off on 1 of the Prisms and heavily damage it due to Verterans of the Long War. I also dropped the Hemlock down to 6 wounds, and a few other wounds off another Fire Prism.
His turn 1 saw all his reserves arrive in his own deployment zone. His hawks managed to get 3 mortal wounds on my Terminators which was pretty funny. His entire army then shot at Magnus and everything that could, charged him. Magnus survived with 1 wound remaining. I also killed his Autarch with Magnus in the fight phase by interrupting combat.
He conceded at this point. While he still had some big guns on the table, my turn would have seen the vast majority of his army die, leaving him with likely 1 and a half Fire Prisms and a couple of infantry models here and there.
After working out the points, the final score was 91-3. Ignoring the score, it was a really funny game and the guy I was playing was fantastic.
So, main take observations and thoughts.
The bad.
If I don’t get 1st turn and Magnus dies, my army struggles massively.
I don’t feel like I had enough board presence. The cultists often survived, but, all they generally did was hold 1 or 2 objectives. Once I moved my Princes and sometimes other units forward, I didn’t have any protection for them in a lot of cases.
Contemptors pretty much did nothing in all of the 5 games. They did a couple of wounds here and there, but, beyond that they just didn’t seem to do anywhere near as much damage as I was hoping for. Their 2+ BS did help in the last game though vs all the to hit penalties.
Terminators were very hit or miss when it came to combat and dropping in from deep strike. 2 attacks with power swords just doesn’t really cut it.
The good
When I went first, it went really well. The amount of pressure I could put out with psychic powers was really strong. I didn’t even need to spam smite to do this.
Terminators using the Crystal Relic instead of deep striking is really interesting. Certainly contemplating running a bigger squad of them. 20, strength 4, ap -2 shots from a squad of 5 is extremely handy. As a fire base in the centre of the table, or a flank they are an incredible distraction. Expensive though.
To be fair, on reflection, I don’t feel like I went up against many “super strong” lists, which was an unfortunate result of me getting destroyed game 1. This was a shame, because the large majority of “top table” lists at the even contained a lot of Custodes Jetbikes. I didn’t face these once, but, my list was setup to completely destroy them, so, in that regard it was a bit disappointing!
The winning list at the event was
Spoiler:
Guard battalion
2x commander with grand strategist and aquila
3x infantry squads
1x 5 ratlings
Outrider
Shield captain on jetbike with 3++ bike
2x 3 jetbikes with hurricane bolters
1x 8 jetbikes with hurricane bolters
1x Praetor in terminator aarmour with -1 to hit banner
Vanguard
2x Eversor
1x Cullexus
This list ended on 100 points, so he got max wins in every game. I look at this list and just think “let him go first, then just mortal wound spam for days” alongside a Death Hex. There were a lot of Custodes Jetbikes at this event.
The top “Thousand Sons” list at the event was
Spoiler:
Outrider
Ahriman
1x Daemon Prince with wings and talons
1x 29 Tzaangors with Brayhorn
1x Tzaangor Shaman
1x 9 Enlightened with bows
2x 3 Enlightened with spears
1x Heldrake with flamer
Daemon battalion
1x Changecaster
1x Fluxmaster
1x 28 Pink Horror with icon and instrument
2x 10 Brimstones
1x6 flamers
Daemons Patrol
1x Bloodmaster
1x 30 Bloodletters with icon and instrument
This won 5 out of 5 games with a final score of 80/100. Classed as Thousand Sons due to them declaring it as their main detachment.
So, changes.
I personally think I’ll make the following changes going forward at a minimum.
Drop Magnus
Drop both Contemptors
Add 3rd Daemon Prince
Add a Tzaangor blob as a forward screen.
Beyond that I’m not 100% decided.
It was a good event, and I’d have gone a lot better for me if I didn’t do soooooo badly in game 1.
Overall, I finished 54th out of 365 players.
Kdash wrote: Just got home from the 40k London GT. Will do a write up of my games and thoughts tomorrow when i'm more awake.
Certainly was more of an "all or nothing" feel to my army though.
look forward to it.
I am trying to come up with a solution at 1500 pts to the "Dark Eldar Raider/Ravager" nonsense. A single Archon giving rerolls to hits and wounds and the Ravager buying a Raider for the BlackHeart group then putting a different group into the raiders (Warriors with the +6" increase to the range rules) is a pain to deal with. Add in Venoms from the same group the warriors came from with dual splinter cannons they can really hurt our Mutalith / Deamon Princes and put the hurt on any vehicles we take, even with our invun saves if they get first turn we can say goodbye to a defiler or 2.
I don't want to go to another codex, but will if thats the best option without going forgeworld. Its why I was interested in the Scarab Occult Terms. I did have luck dropping 20 rubrics in and blasting away with Vets of the Long War, but thats a 400+ pt answer that I am not sure is the best.
Personally, the best way i found for killing characters is psychic powers. So many of them can target any unit you want and have a decent range. 2-3 powers will kill 99% of all characters on average. Infernal Gaze, Doombolt, Bolt of Change, even Infernal Gateway came in handy in a few games (especially the necron game). Firestorm can also help.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnnyRotten wrote: Is the Contemptor Dread from FW actually a valuable addition to your TS army?
I always like the models and wanted to paint some just for joy, but with the final goal of an army.
I don't know in which spot TS are in today, I guess they're not overly competitive, but can they hold their own?
Are Tzaangors and their weird models a good addition to run? I wouldn't mind a Tzang squad and a Shaman, but I wouldn't want to go all crazy about them. They look ridiculous.
So the Contemptors with my setup just didn’t do enough in my opinion. Double butcher cannons might have been better for the additional shots. C-beams look decent on paper vs infantry units but, I just felt like I wasn’t getting enough out of them.
Dropping them does mean I leave a big gap in my army in regards to long range, high dmg shooting though.
I took them originally, because I had the models, I like them and wanted to test them out.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 11:06:45
2018/05/21 12:05:17
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Thank you for the review! It was great to know how TS can fare in the competitive environment.
As for Magnus, I've found him too easy to kill too. In today's crazy shooty metagame even 3+/3++ mean almost nothing against a strong opponent. I personally dropped him and now try to use that points to take some long-range shooting, mainly a trio of Khorne Scull Cannons in Spearhead detachment.
2018/05/21 15:09:38
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Azuza001 wrote: Great write up! Thanks for the insite. Sounds like game 1 you just got bad rolls. :(
Yeah it was definitely an out lying game, but, it happens from time to time.
Not sure it would have had much impact on the game though if Ahriman had survived or the terminators killed the scouts first round. After Magnus died, i didn't really have the ability to take on everything he had on the table :(
2018/05/21 18:51:12
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
How are people finding Daemon engines backed up by Heralds or Daemon Princes?
I've been tempted to run two Gatling forgefiends with the changeling with flickering flames sandwiched between them.
Also, do you guys find that you need a re-roll 1's babysitter with daemon engines? As the Daemonforge strategum only affects one of them.
2018/05/21 19:05:00
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I was wondering if anyone with experience can talk a newbie through the options for Tzaangors and my next purchases.
Is it chainsaw and pistol or is it double blades as a load out or are they useful in different situations?
I have a painted Magnus done (cool model - GW stole my money), 10 Rubrics on the go and an Ahriman waiting to be painted. What would you suggest next so I can get Ahriman and the Rubrics on the table quickly?
Thank you for the help.
2018/05/21 19:34:01
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Azuza001 wrote: Great write up! Thanks for the insite. Sounds like game 1 you just got bad rolls. :(
Yeah it was definitely an out lying game, but, it happens from time to time.
Not sure it would have had much impact on the game though if Ahriman had survived or the terminators killed the scouts first round. After Magnus died, i didn't really have the ability to take on everything he had on the table :(
Nice write up, really interesting to read.
All in all your TS army seemingly did quite well. Although you wrote that you didn't feel like competing with the toptables lists, you never fought the lists your composition was designed for, so I guess it evens out.
The Contemptors are cool models, so is Magnus. I only heared good things about a 20-30 Tzangoors screen with blades, when a Shaman gets mixed in. Eventhough I don't really like the Tzeentch models, especially when a list has 9+ Enlightened.
The Best TS list of the event was just a demon soup list, I wouldn't even touch this mess nor call it anywhere near a TS list. I would prefer a pure TS list anytime, adds much more flava.
Maybe keep the Dreads in case you fight a more 'Jetbikey' list and just drop Magnus and add a Tzaangor screen + Shaman for a couple of games. Just a little change step by step and maybe you'll discover a suited alternative if you're still not satisfied with the dreads.
I mean your list didn't fail completely.
The word was spread that Termis are actually not topnotch in this edition, but their models are too cool and scarabs are clearly some of the better termi-options out there.
I think it was pretty ballsy to bring Magnus to an event, bc he's just a fire magnet and doesn't endure as much like Morty fe. .
Anyways, keep up the sweet reports.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 19:44:42
2018/05/21 19:45:04
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
EmissaryOfTzeentch wrote: I was wondering if anyone with experience can talk a newbie through the options for Tzaangors and my next purchases.
Is it chainsaw and pistol or is it double blades as a load out or are they useful in different situations?
I have a painted Magnus done (cool model - GW stole my money), 10 Rubrics on the go and an Ahriman waiting to be painted. What would you suggest next so I can get Ahriman and the Rubrics on the table quickly?
Thank you for the help.
If you want to run Tzaangors blades is generally the way to go with them, as you kinda want them in combat asap. So, usually blades and a brayhorn then deploy them using the Dark Matter Crystal relic or via the webway stratagem. A cool little buff for them is from the Shaman, and it only costs 90 points.
A battalion is prob the best way to go now though, so you need either a Daemon Prince or an Exalted Sorcerer/Normal Sorcerer. The Daemon Prince is hands down the best, but i love the Exalted Sorcerer model on a disc, especially with double power swords. This also means you either need a 3rd troop unit, or you need to split the Rubric squad into 2 units of 5. Cheapest way to get this, points wise, is with a Cultist squad, but if you're not bothered right now, i personally think Rubric squads are just so much cooler.
Depends what you're aiming for - as Magnus, Ahriman on a disc, Daemon Prince with wings, 2x 10 Rubrics, 1x 20 Tzaangors and a Shaman clocks in at 1421 points. You could drop it to 19 Tzaangors and add in a Rhino with 2 combi bolters and a havoc launcher which gets you to 1499 points.
However, with a list like that, you'll either get totally destroyed each time Magnus dies in your first turn, or, he'll survive and you'll probably likely remove 1/3rd of your opponents army from the first psychic phase. However, noone can really hate you too much, because they are too busy yelling about how "bad" rubric marines are, and 2 squads of 10 is essentially 1/3rd of your points
2018/05/21 19:45:33
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
EmissaryOfTzeentch wrote: I was wondering if anyone with experience can talk a newbie through the options for Tzaangors and my next purchases.
Is it chainsaw and pistol or is it double blades as a load out or are they useful in different situations?
I have a painted Magnus done (cool model - GW stole my money), 10 Rubrics on the go and an Ahriman waiting to be painted. What would you suggest next so I can get Ahriman and the Rubrics on the table quickly?
Thank you for the help.
Get the AoS tzangoors with blades. They're the best option in 40k also and you can use them in both games.
2018/05/21 19:47:53
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
backlash13 wrote: How are people finding Daemon engines backed up by Heralds or Daemon Princes?
I've been tempted to run two Gatling forgefiends with the changeling with flickering flames sandwiched between them.
Also, do you guys find that you need a re-roll 1's babysitter with daemon engines? As the Daemonforge strategum only affects one of them.
I've not used any daemon engines myself, however Azuza001 has been having great success with a Defiler backed up by the Flickering Flames power.
My only issue with them, is that i generally want more "thousand sons" and psyker units in my lists, so i often run out of spare points for one of them :/
Azuza001 wrote: Great write up! Thanks for the insite. Sounds like game 1 you just got bad rolls. :(
Yeah it was definitely an out lying game, but, it happens from time to time.
Not sure it would have had much impact on the game though if Ahriman had survived or the terminators killed the scouts first round. After Magnus died, i didn't really have the ability to take on everything he had on the table :(
Nice write up, really interesting to read.
All in all your TS army seemingly did quite well. Although you wrote that you didn't feel like competing with the toptables lists, you never fought the lists your composition was designed for, so I guess it evens out.
The Contemptors are cool models, so is Magnus. I only heared good things about a 20-30 Tzangoors screen with blades, when a Shaman gets mixed in. Eventhough I don't really like the Tzeentch models, especially when a list has 9+ Enlightened.
The Best TS list of the event was just a demon soup list, I wouldn't even touch this mess nor call it anywhere near a TS list. I would prefer a pure TS list anytime, adds much more flava.
Maybe keep the Dreads in case you fight a more 'Jetbikey' list and just drop Magnus and add a Tzaangor screen + Shaman for a couple of games. Just a little change step by step and maybe you'll discover a suited alternative if you're still not satisfied with the dreads.
I mean your list didn't fail completely.
The word was spread that Termis are actually not topnotch in this edition, but their models are too cool and scarabs are clearly some of the better termi-options out there.
I think it was pretty ballsy to bring Magnus to an event, bc he's just a fire magnet and doesn't endure as much like Morty fe. .
Anyways, keep up the sweet reports.
Thanks!
I agree, a step by step approach is probably the wisest move. Definitely going to be taking another Thousand Sons list to my next event in July. I'm like you, i don't really enjoy the idea of spamming Tzaangor units, but, i'm starting to feel like i just need to bite the bullet and run with them. A couple of the lists at the GT ran 3 squads of Enlightened. Just not my cup of tea and certain doesn't feel like "traditional Thousand Sons". The top ranked pure Thousand Sons list ran 27 of them
Spoiler:
Battalion
Ahirman on disc
2x Daemon Prince with Wings (one with DMC)
1x 30 Tzaangors
2x 10 Cultists
Super Heavy
Magnus
Outrider
Daemon Prince with Wings
1x Shaman
3x 9 Enlightened with Bows
It's a strong list and placed 42nd - with 4 wins and 1 loss, getting 71 points.
I've also been considering a Daemons battalion with something like The Changling, Hearld on the Chariot (can't remember the new name), and 3 squads of horrors for screening/back field camping. It's meant to be for "cheap" CP but still rocks in at several hundred points. Thousand Sons biggest issue imo is the cost of their HQs. Cheapest comes in at 104 points, and that's just a standard Sorcerer who only offers 2 casts and 1 deny.
First step is definitely dropping Magnus, but 100% going to try running a squad of 9 Scarab Occult. I really liked dropping them in with the DMC turn 1 and i think a bigger squad will offer more in regards to just removing models and serving as a massive distraction. They are INCREDIBLY slow though, so positioning is everything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/21 20:12:52
14000
15000
4000 
for 40k
for infinity 
Terminators did a couple of wounds, Rhino and Rubrics hardly did anything. He killed my warlord in the fight phase. His turn saw him kill one squad of Rubrics and that was it.
