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i would throw my 2c on the garg squiggoth but im still trying to finish painting it.
Its such a rugged model (texture-wise) its downright frustrating to paint. So i've been dragging my feet painting the chassis that sits on his back lol

I can give my mini squig a go, but I keep looking at the statlines and seeing a worse battlewagon.

The problem I see with Ork Characters is that they are paying premium points for close combat abilities they hardly use. Realistically would you want your Painboy to have a PK or would you rather take 25pts off his base cost? How about the banner nob, same deal?

With the Banner Nob though I really liked that idea about his aura giving some kind of extra buff. SM characters are superior almost across the board. I would love the banner nob to either give +1 attack or preferably +1-2inches either in the movement phase or the charge phase. I can think of some amazing combos i we had a character that increased Charge range.

SemperMortis wrote:
The problem I see with Ork Characters is that they are paying premium points for close combat abilities they hardly use. Realistically would you want your Painboy to have a PK or would you rather take 25pts off his base cost? How about the banner nob, same deal?

With the Banner Nob though I really liked that idea about his aura giving some kind of extra buff. SM characters are superior almost across the board. I would love the banner nob to either give +1 attack or preferably +1-2inches either in the movement phase or the charge phase. I can think of some amazing combos i we had a character that increased Charge range.

I'd just like the banner nob to be a flat +1 to hit. Remove the close combat restriction and he is largely fine.

It is the truth on equipment though. I'd never pay for a killsaw or PK on a painboy if not for it being required.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Banner aura is definitely 6"
Hes worth it. Easily the difference between your boys landing a ton of hits vs landing a good number.

Hmm! I've been in the "not worth" camp, but I haven't really thought it through.....

He's, what, 70ish points? Let's call him 12 boyz of points.

If he's buffing 1 unit of 30 slugga boyz, they've got 120 attacks. Normally 80 of those hit, having a banner gets you 20 additional hits (although, if it survives 80 hits, I feel like maybe it's a target priority problem...). 12 boyz would net you 36 additional hits (not getting that 20 model+ bonus).

So you really need at least 2 units of boyz in order to get the most out of that bonus. For more valuable attacks, say if you give your nobz pks, it gets more efficient. That makes sense. I've been pretty bad at positioning my banner to buff two units simultaneously, but if I jump my shoota boyz in and have him running up between the sluggas and kanz, I could see him getting a lot of value.

 JohnU wrote:
I can give my mini squig a go, but I keep looking at the statlines and seeing a worse battlewagon.

Really I look at it and see a better battlewagon, unless you really need the 20 man transport capacity. I mean they have the same Toughness and Save the squiggoth has 2 more wounds, but 1 less attack and strength. The battlewagon hits more in close combat but does less damage. Stampede is a big advantage for a big model as you can hit multiple units. Now you can get +1 T for the wagon, but then you give up on any shooting. Also having the unit inside able to shoot while in CC with the transport is nice.

I think each has their uses, but I'm looking forward to trying the squiggoth. The gargantuan squiggoth looks very powerful I think it would be one of our better units. Problem is it costs a lot of money, and is huge so not many people will own one, and a good conversion is difficult.


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 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Banner aura is definitely 6"
Hes worth it. Easily the difference between your boys landing a ton of hits vs landing a good number.

Hmm! I've been in the "not worth" camp, but I haven't really thought it through.....

He's, what, 70ish points? Let's call him 12 boyz of points.

If he's buffing 1 unit of 30 slugga boyz, they've got 120 attacks. Normally 80 of those hit, having a banner gets you 20 additional hits (although, if it survives 80 hits, I feel like maybe it's a target priority problem...). 12 boyz would net you 36 additional hits (not getting that 20 model+ bonus).

So you really need at least 2 units of boyz in order to get the most out of that bonus. For more valuable attacks, say if you give your nobz pks, it gets more efficient. That makes sense. I've been pretty bad at positioning my banner to buff two units simultaneously, but if I jump my shoota boyz in and have him running up between the sluggas and kanz, I could see him getting a lot of value.

I typically don't use him, but in reality it is unlikely all your boyz will get to attack, so just adding boyz doesn't have the same impact (42 boyz are likely never to all be in combat range, heck 30 rarely are). The advantage to the more boyz vs his 80 points is the durability they add.

The banner nob is literally the only thing we have to improve our killyness odds. (ok you could count Ghaz but you need the charge for his to do anything)
We have no rerolls whatsoever in melee (for some reason)
PK's hit on 4s and still costing 25pts hurt
Armor sucks so we need to kill our target first
Strength and damage is average.
Rate of attacks is about all we have going for us and the bannernob helps that a ton. Yeah you need 2 units of boyz to truely make him worth it, big deal why would you NOT have 2 units of boyz side by side anyway? My basic go-to for boyz is 2 slugga units and 1 shoota unit. The shoota unit dives in first and is generally just the wound sponge while it has decent dakka, real problem is behind them.

I generally run Ghaz and a Weirdboy with Warpath as well. Nothing like watching your opponents face fall off when you tell him that each Boy has 6 attacks. (2 base, 1 CCW, 1 20+ boyz, 1 Ghaz 1 Weirdboy )

Ironically the one time I brought the banner nob was near a unit that got buffed like that. It ate Girlyman and a Predator annihilator. 180 attacks (ignoring the nob for ease) 150 hits, S4 Vs T7 = 50 wounds

SemperMortis wrote:
I generally run Ghaz and a Weirdboy with Warpath as well. Nothing like watching your opponents face fall off when you tell him that each Boy has 6 attacks. (2 base, 1 CCW, 1 20+ boyz, 1 Ghaz 1 Weirdboy )

Ironically the one time I brought the banner nob was near a unit that got buffed like that. It ate Girlyman and a Predator annihilator. 180 attacks (ignoring the nob for ease) 150 hits, S4 Vs T7 = 50 wounds

180 attacks would be enough even w/o a banner nob. That's my point, basically. You don't always need a 16% increase in choppiness. But you pretty much always need more bodies.

SemperMortis wrote:
The problem I see with Ork Characters is that they are paying premium points for close combat abilities they hardly use. Realistically would you want your Painboy to have a PK or would you rather take 25pts off his base cost? How about the banner nob, same deal?

Yes and no. I agree 100% on pain boyz, but for the banner nob I often find him end up on the frontlines and then smashing stuff with the Waaagh! Banner. There are tons of units which will not be able to kill him even when they burn 2 CP for counter-attack.

With the Banner Nob though I really liked that idea about his aura giving some kind of extra buff. SM characters are superior almost across the board. I would love the banner nob to either give +1 attack or preferably +1-2inches either in the movement phase or the charge phase. I can think of some amazing combos i we had a character that increased Charge range.

+1 to hit is already pretty amazing. What's missing is a second character to to buff them even more, even CSM/daemons can get two buffs (+strength and rerolling hits).


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 koooaei wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I generally run Ghaz and a Weirdboy with Warpath as well. Nothing like watching your opponents face fall off when you tell him that each Boy has 6 attacks. (2 base, 1 CCW, 1 20+ boyz, 1 Ghaz 1 Weirdboy )

Ironically the one time I brought the banner nob was near a unit that got buffed like that. It ate Girlyman and a Predator annihilator. 180 attacks (ignoring the nob for ease) 150 hits, S4 Vs T7 = 50 wounds

180 attacks would be enough even w/o a banner nob. That's my point, basically. You don't always need a 16% increase in choppiness. But you pretty much always need more bodies.

In my meta whole mobs of boyz disappear in one turn, I'm pretty happy when the leftovers get more hits in.

We already have a 2nd and third character that give buffs to attack. Ghaz and Weirdboy. The problem is Ghaz is MASSIVELY expensive and he gives such a small buff for those points. Hell I would pay another 50pts if they gave him +1 attack and +1 strength to boyz, Suddenly T8 is no longer borderline invincible to boyz.

As to the point about whole mobs of boyz disappearing in one turn...get ready this is crazy, this isn't because orks are weak. Actually it is the opposite, shooting is to strong. If you made boyz cheaper or gave them better armor it would ruin the entire game, the answer is nerfing fething stupid weapons like Asscans and Hurricane bolters.

I also would like to see some new rules regarding characters in CC. I have had numerous fights where my opponent pays those 2CP to snipe a character because he finally gets to the front lines, its ridiculous how this happens. In the shooting phase you can't target htem which is nice but in CC you suddenly can? Makes no sense.

My complaint about the Weirdboy buffing attacks via Warpath is it ALWAYS GETS DENIED (or i perils due to number of boyz around me)
Da Jump is usually far enough away where you cant deny it. Few times i run my weirdboy atm hes got Da Jump not warpath

SemperMortis wrote:
As to the point about whole mobs of boyz disappearing in one turn...get ready this is crazy, this isn't because orks are weak. Actually it is the opposite, shooting is to strong. If you made boyz cheaper or gave them better armor it would ruin the entire game, the answer is nerfing fething stupid weapons like Asscans and Hurricane bolters.

Actually, this usually happens in CC. Daemonettes, multiple cc characters or genestealers tear mobs of 30 appart.

I also would like to see some new rules regarding characters in CC. I have had numerous fights where my opponent pays those 2CP to snipe a character because he finally gets to the front lines, its ridiculous how this happens. In the shooting phase you can't target htem which is nice but in CC you suddenly can? Makes no sense.

Only models which are within 1" of the character or within 1" of such a model can attack it. If you charge your boyz mob first you can usually limit the number of models that can strike to 4 or less, either by blocking access left and right, or by charging him into the side of a unit which has all units in base contact with your boyz (those may not pile into him).
Sure, 4 assault terminators tear him apart, but your usual rank and file soldiers like tatical marines, imperial soldiers, necrons or most daemons are not going to kill a 4W 4+ model. The banner nob, however, will kill one or two of those.

1) A killsaw is not a disaster on a model with 4 attacks, but of course a 40 point painboy would be preferable. A 40 point Big Mek with a 6+ save would also be nice, but alas no such option. For some reason a klaw or saw is mandatory for painboyz and armor is mandatory for Big Meks.
2) As for the Warbosses I just charge them right in, and if they die then they die.
3) The twin assault cannon is undercosted. It is one of the only twin-linked turned twin-weapon that is CHEAPER than two singles.
4) My weirdboyz never gets denied. And this is why the painboy is so good, he allows you to just roll and not care so much about a possible peril. You can trust the the painboy to recharge that D6 smite-machine next turn.
5) The banner Nob is fine. But my general experience has been that more boyz is always preferable to the alternative. I have gone from about 100 boyz to twice that and I have steadily increased the ration of shootas to sluggas. Maybe 240 shootas is where it is at.
6) One funny use of warbikers is that they can block knights from falling back, because bikers are not infantry. Just engage the knight with some boyz, and position the bikes or bike characters on three sides of the knight not getting within the 1" zone. The knight will be tied up until all the boyz has been stomped which may not happen before game end. And the bikers can still shoot while keeping the knight at bay.

Has anyone had any luck with a brigade list?

Just got 2 Deff Dreads, because why not.

Now I'm thinking is there any point in kitting them out with anything else than 4 Klaws? A Skorcha seems to be to only worthwhile ranged option really. Now I could magnetize them to allow for a Skorcha or just use the Skorchas to kitbash a Supa Skorcha for a Big Trakk (which is a more tempting option tbh).

So what's Dakka's verdict?

 Weazel wrote:
Just got 2 Deff Dreads, because why not.

Now I'm thinking is there any point in kitting them out with anything else than 4 Klaws? A Skorcha seems to be to only worthwhile ranged option really. Now I could magnetize them to allow for a Skorcha or just use the Skorchas to kitbash a Supa Skorcha for a Big Trakk (which is a more tempting option tbh).

So what's Dakka's verdict?

Double Skorchas has worked fine for me.

I'd recommend double Skorcha for more defensive builds, 3 Klaws and one Scorcha for offensive builds.

 Weazel wrote:
Just got 2 Deff Dreads, because why not.

Now I'm thinking is there any point in kitting them out with anything else than 4 Klaws? A Skorcha seems to be to only worthwhile ranged option really. Now I could magnetize them to allow for a Skorcha or just use the Skorchas to kitbash a Supa Skorcha for a Big Trakk (which is a more tempting option tbh).

So what's Dakka's verdict?

I've magnetized it as well. I don't play dread mobs and maybe in that setting dreads' loadout could be different but I'd go with the cheapest wargear, 2 klaws and 2 big shootas. I've always played cheap dreads in the previous editions, and I haven't tried walkers in 8th, but even the W, T and save profile dreads look quite squishy and a single round of anti tank weapons should wreck them. If they are full kitted they became a high priority, but sometimes even stock they are a bullet magnet. I don't think that a dread with 4 klaws would have the chance to strike.

Big Trakk ..overall is yellow due to point costs and situational use ..Three Loadouts come to mind that are usefull but expensive..

Big Trakk Super Skorcha ..Cause 4-12 autohit Str 6 -1 ap + can take up to 6 riders..Max life 3 turns Shove a minimum tankbusta unit here and kill some tanks This si the only real use I have found and this load out has proven effective..

Big Trakk Super Kannon ..only slightly cheaper than wagon can hide and shoot a bit better than the wagon due to lower profile' Zaapa Gunz are more efficent ..

As a more durable trukk ..yes it works ..can survive the first turn of shooting but is it going to win you games ..NO..cause can take two trukks for the points

Any other big gun ...Kinda useless just dosent have the ability to hit much

Kill Tank .Hard hitting ork shooting at BS 3 Yes please...Expensive but no more so than a Gork and hits harder than a Gork at range

My dreads are 3klaw 1 skorcha but honestly i kinda wish they were 4klaw. The lone skorcha helps but not that much, i dont get why its 17pts...

I've kitted my Dread out with 4 klaws because I feel the shooting weapons are completely lackluster. Plus, any casualties from shooting would increase my charge distance which is where the Deff Dread's stats start to shine.

Does the kill tank have no AP value for its melee attacks? Not finding anything that shows it having any. It appears to be just +2S the turn it charges and on a 2+ causes d3 mortal wounds in one unit within 1" when finishing a charge move


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3 kill tanks in a list seems like fun

This list I've cooked up includes flash gits, but you could swap them out for something else. Same for bustas if you don't like em.

 Weazel wrote:
Just got 2 Deff Dreads, because why not.

Now I'm thinking is there any point in kitting them out with anything else than 4 Klaws? A Skorcha seems to be to only worthwhile ranged option really. Now I could magnetize them to allow for a Skorcha or just use the Skorchas to kitbash a Supa Skorcha for a Big Trakk (which is a more tempting option tbh).

So what's Dakka's verdict?

Try getting the skorcha bits from the kanz box, people rarely need them so they often end up on ebay or other bit sellers. Or just ask some other ork players.

They fit into the deff dread perfectly (lower arms are the same as Kanz arms).

Then use the skorcha bits from the dread kit to build your supa skorcha

In any case, magnetize them - it's very easy to do. Any advice that's good today might be terrible when the codex hits next year.

 Nithaniel wrote:
Has anyone had any luck with a brigade list?

I find the problem with using a brigade detachment (at least around the usual points level of 2000) is that our army doesn't work too well when we try combined arms compared to other armies. If we stick to a certain army theme, whether it be Dred Mob, Mechanized or Footslogging, we kind of have to go all in or it doesn't really work well. Brigades force you to effectively half-ass several slots to justify gaining the extra command points. Kommandos are fine for filling elite slots, but a lot of our fast attack slots require for you to either make a decent investment to make them work (i.e. MSU stormboyz aren't particularly worth it and dakkajets aren't super cheap) and can effectively dilute your army's focus. Furthermore, CP's aren't worth that kind of investment right now for a lot of the Index-dependent factions like Orks right now since there's not that many interesting options for us to exploit.

On that same note, are Gorkanauts only really worth taking in dred mob and green tide lists?

In the half dozen or so games I've brought my gorkanaught, in a mixed list or supporting a tide, he's either put in great work or been wrecked in one turn by something in a bigger weight class than him. I've had him mvp against ravenwing bikers carrying the rest of the army and twice has Magnus warptimed behind him and shoved that staff straight up the tailpipe for a OHKO. He's just not that durable I can imagine alot of things putting him down

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, 6" for banner nobz - no idea why i wrote 3. My point is that he is a bit too pricey. You often allready do enough if you get to combat in numbers. The main problem i've faced with ork hores is not the choppiness but speed and durability. If he also made boyz run fasta...

Helps with the Killsaws and claws though. it gets back the -1 to hit, and allows a good volume of hits with possibly the best can openers the orks have.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
Has anyone had any luck with a brigade list?

I find the problem with using a brigade detachment (at least around the usual points level of 2000) is that our army doesn't work too well when we try combined arms compared to other armies. If we stick to a certain army theme, whether it be Dred Mob, Mechanized or Footslogging, we kind of have to go all in or it doesn't really work well. Brigades force you to effectively half-ass several slots to justify gaining the extra command points. Kommandos are fine for filling elite slots, but a lot of our fast attack slots require for you to either make a decent investment to make them work (i.e. MSU stormboyz aren't particularly worth it and dakkajets aren't super cheap) and can effectively dilute your army's focus. Furthermore, CP's aren't worth that kind of investment right now for a lot of the Index-dependent factions like Orks right now since there's not that many interesting options for us to exploit.

On that same note, are Gorkanauts only really worth taking in dred mob and green tide lists?

I don't think gorkanauts perform well in green tide lists, they would soak all the anti tank in the world dying very early.

Nauts could do well in those lists that have a bunch other T6-8 units.

i need to get a gork because it would fill that odd 380pt void in my list where i feel like im just taking random things to fill the list out lol.
i've had dakkajets, bikers, kopters, and various random HQs (including Zhad, wow hes mean) and added excess stuff to the boyz lol.
i'm already running 3x dreads and 6x kanz. I dont really see a way for orks to reliably deal with fliers so i'm basically just ignoring them (kanz can atleast hit them on 5s if theres no land vehicles left)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i need to get a gork because it would fill that odd 380pt void in my list where i feel like im just taking random things to fill the list out lol.
i've had dakkajets, bikers, kopters, and various random HQs (including Zhad, wow hes mean) and added excess stuff to the boyz lol.
i'm already running 3x dreads and 6x kanz. I dont really see a way for orks to reliably deal with fliers so i'm basically just ignoring them (kanz can atleast hit them on 5s if theres no land vehicles left)

I always feel I have a big hole in my 2,000pt lists that I am desperately trying to fill. This is probably because I don't have enough Boyz models because realistically I would just take more boyz (160 is not nearly enough apparently) I don't think in a foot sloggin list I would take a vehicle though, it would draw way to much enemy fire power.

Thats the thing. I dont like greentides, theyre kinda stale after awhile since all it is every game is "How many boyz did you kill before i charged?" rather than target priority stuff.
Hence the walkers. I could add another 60ish boyz but i just dont want to.