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 Blackie wrote:
Not entirely true. I've found out that 180 boyz green tides are not that effective, because they're too slow. 90-120 boyz plus 45-90 kommandos and/or 30/60 stormboyz are the way to go. In this scenario gretchin may fill up 1-2 troops slots without being wasted points. In my green tide brigade I always include a min units of gretchin to have 6 troops. If you don't bother with the brigade leave gretchin on the shelf though.

Gretchin are always wasted points, but it's not worse than buying kombi-rokkits for your warboss or something like that...

In green tides you also need objective holders since the boyz should always advance and if you don't own any mek gunz those gretchin can do that job. Artillery is certainly more efficient but the models cost a lot of money and not everyone are willing to buy them or scratch build their own artillery. Gretchin are sub-optimal but not useless.

I just found bags with 4 cannons and 4 siege mortars from a line of US civil war toys for $10 per bag. They are slightly bigger than GW models, but when you stick some ork bits to them and paint them, they look way better than the original models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

grnsknz wrote:
I tried using gretchin in a unit of 30 by using da jump on them. With their shooting bonus (surprisingly dangerous in large numbers) they weren’t that bad. Jumped in, shot like marines thn died miserably.

They shooting is a lot less impressive than it sounds though. I jumped 30 of them at a unit of devs once (yes, I actually try units before declaring them useless ) and they killed one through shooting, none by assault, and next turn the devs fell back and the grots were obliterated by a scout squad and a tactical squad. Spending those 90 points on boyz and just jumping 12 boyz+BC nob would have done much more. Just infiltrating some kommandoz and charging with them would have killed the devs for much less points and would have left da jump open for something else.

Decreasing their point value would result in armies with 200+ grotz because of being the cheapest wounds on the table. Nobody wants that...

I agree. Cheaper is not the way to go for gretchin, we don't need more brimstone or conscript incidents. They need to get stronger, or better - gain utility. Boyz are pretty much the maximum amount of power you can expect out of a horde troop choice, if gretchin had other uses but getting shot, that alone could make them viable.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Not entirely true. I've found out that 180 boyz green tides are not that effective, because they're too slow. 90-120 boyz plus 45-90 kommandos and/or 30/60 stormboyz are the way to go. In this scenario gretchin may fill up 1-2 troops slots without being wasted points. In my green tide brigade I always include a min units of gretchin to have 6 troops. If you don't bother with the brigade leave gretchin on the shelf though.

Gretchin are always wasted points, but it's not worse than buying kombi-rokkits for your warboss or something like that...

I played some games in terrains full of scenario, like ruined cities, and some objectives may end up out in a spot in which gretchin can hold them while staying completely hidden and mek gunz can't. In green tides mek gunz absorb all the anti tank and die quite easily, in fact I only play with 8-10 kannonz, no less, if I bring a green tide plus artillery, while gretchin are completely ignored and usually score some points. I also prefer artillery over them of course but I don't think gretchin are like kombi rokkits, they're more like kombi skorchas because IMHO kombi skorchas can be useful but being extremely overcosted they're a very suboptimal choice, just like gretchins.

 Jidmah wrote:

In green tides you also need objective holders since the boyz should always advance and if you don't own any mek gunz those gretchin can do that job. Artillery is certainly more efficient but the models cost a lot of money and not everyone are willing to buy them or scratch build their own artillery. Gretchin are sub-optimal but not useless.

I just found bags with 4 cannons and 4 siege mortars from a line of US civil war toys for $10 per bag. They are slightly bigger than GW models, but when you stick some ork bits to them and paint them, they look way better than the original models.

Yeah conversions and good deals are a way to go with orks, I made 10 pieces of artillery for half the cost of a single mek gunz.

Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

I came up with this list afte4 reading alot through this forum. My aim is to win tournaments with it.

I can reduced the # of drops to a minimum of 6 if needed. Everything is embarked.

Any advice to make it even better?

Chapter approved point values are included but battle scribe is not updated jet.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Orks) [108 PL, 1731pts] ++

+ HQ +

Ghazghkull Thraka [11 PL, 215pts]

Ork Mek Boss Buzzgob [6 PL, 75pts]: Kustom Force Field [RAW PROBLEMATIC], Nitnuckle and Lunk

+ Troops +

Boyz [13 PL, 224pts]
. Boss Nob: Kombi-Skorcha, Power Klaw
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 19x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 224pts]
. Boss Nob: Kombi-Skorcha, Power Klaw
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 19x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [13 PL, 224pts]
. Boss Nob: Kombi-Skorcha, Power Klaw
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Shoota
. 19x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

+ Elites +

Kommandos [4 PL, 45pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa
. 2x Kommando
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Burna

Mad Dok Grotsnik [7 PL, 74pts]

Nob w/ Waaagh! Banner [4 PL, 79pts]: Kustom Shoota

+ Fast Attack +

Stormboyz [13 PL, 193pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 20x Stormboy

Stormboyz [13 PL, 193pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 20x Stormboy

+ Heavy Support +

Battlewagon [11 PL, 185pts]: 'ard Case, 4x Big Shoota

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Orks) [12 PL, 186pts] ++

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 1. 'Eadbanger

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Orks) [12 PL, 186pts] ++

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

Weirdboy [4 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

++ Total: [132 PL, 2103pts] ++

Lyceus wrote:
I came up with this list afte4 reading alot through this forum. My aim is to win tournaments with it.

I can reduced the # of drops to a minimum of 6 if needed. Everything is embarked.

I am trying to run a quite similar list, and after 2 games with it I would say:
- Drop the battlewagon
- I did not find that starting second is such a terrible thing. You set up your KFF (+ possibly painboy) protection perfectly in the beginning, but after 1-2 turns it is usually messed up. Movement, terrain, mistakes, etc. So turn 1 is the time when you can dodge the most of the shooting. Of course, starting and moving the whole bubble-wrapped horde forward is even better, I'm just saying that number of drops is not that big of an issue if you can spare some points (I presume the battlewagon was there to fit the 6 weirboys in it and get out turn 1).
- I would add 1-2 units of cheap kommandos for turn 3 objective grabbing or any other flexible roles

I still feel a bit bad about smite spamming as I don't feel this way really orky, but that definetely works quite OK.
If you place weirdboys inside boyz blobs for the psi bonus at this amount you should consider also running a painboy to save some peril woulds and add an extra save layer to the KFF on boyz (5+ is not that special, but an 5+ then 6+ worth 60something points in case of 90+ boyz)

What if the enemy got -1 to hit when shoting at / fighting grots? Because they are so small.

I'd also recommend to drop the BW. Take some artillery instead and/or more kommandos, or maybe a second KFF big mek, better if on bike.

You can also split the stormboyz into three or four units of ten guys, you'll double the pks and the mob would be more versatile.

grnsknz wrote:
I tried using gretchin in a unit of 30 by using da jump on them. With their shooting bonus (surprisingly dangerous in large numbers) they weren’t that bad. Jumped in, shot like marines thn died miserably.

I've done that and it worked out well. My opponent had several small units deepstriking looking for ways to pick my army apart. One of his units was isolated to one side of the board but would have been trouble in his next turn. I popped 30 grot over and killed 2 of the 3 of them 5 us saved wounds, they were two wound models. The lone survivor was easily cooked by burna boys after that. It's a reasonable "tactic". (If I had chosen the first spot I had been looking at to place them they would have been eaten by a dreadnought.) Those grots took zero casualties that game and gained an objective. I'm thinking of a way to do that again but using the mob up stratagem. I can see putting up to 60 grots in a list for the points. I'm also tempted to see if there's a way to block enemy reserves from their back field by blocking their board edge with jumping gorts. Who knows but for 90 to 120 points I think it would be worth it.

I somehow disagree with the suggestions so far.

- I think going first is super important, if you reach an objective before the opponent you get the mission advantage and board control. Plus you might get in melee already first turn. Going second means you might get shot at twice.

- splitting storm boys will increase the # power claws but also you will need to take moral checks and might lose models because of that. Also you can not congaline 10 models to a painboy or the banner.
My weird boys will need to take care of big armour stuff.

- you da jump 30 boys infront of the enemy every psychic phase. I see how you can increase the pressure with kommandos but I don't see the need for it.

- artillery would be nice but since I don't have any other tanks then my transport I don't want to give my opponent any good targets for his anti tank weapons. I want him to force him to shoot my da jumped boys and then the protected storm boys with kff and pain boy.
Also I thought I want to keep the drops as low as possible.

I might be totally wrong since its just theory for me.

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

I definitelly think that's something that might happen in the ork codex. Because as good as boyz are now, they'll become even better with all the "fight again for 3 cp" and such stratagems.

Also right now grots are really bad for ITC missions. They're just free VPs for reaper and kill a unit.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

I definitelly think that's something that might happen in the ork codex. Because as good as boyz are now, they'll become even better with all the "fight again for 3 cp" and such stratagems.

Also right now grots are really bad for ITC missions. They're just free VPs for reaper and kill a unit.

Will having one unit fighting a second time each turn really make them that much better? Granted that could be twice in a battle round but how many command points do you have that thre would be such a strong impact? I usually have 7 or 8 command points at best. When would you start using that kind ability at that price?

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Not entirely true. I've found out that 180 boyz green tides are not that effective, because they're too slow. 90-120 boyz plus 45-90 kommandos and/or 30/60 stormboyz are the way to go. In this scenario gretchin may fill up 1-2 troops slots without being wasted points. In my green tide brigade I always include a min units of gretchin to have 6 troops. If you don't bother with the brigade leave gretchin on the shelf though.

Gretchin are always wasted points, but it's not worse than buying kombi-rokkits for your warboss or something like that...

I played some games in terrains full of scenario, like ruined cities, and some objectives may end up out in a spot in which gretchin can hold them while staying completely hidden and mek gunz can't. In green tides mek gunz absorb all the anti tank and die quite easily, in fact I only play with 8-10 kannonz, no less, if I bring a green tide plus artillery, while gretchin are completely ignored and usually score some points. I also prefer artillery over them of course but I don't think gretchin are like kombi rokkits, they're more like kombi skorchas because IMHO kombi skorchas can be useful but being extremely overcosted they're a very suboptimal choice, just like gretchins.

You might want to re-read the rules for the artillery units. The grot gunners are a separate unit from the cannon. Even if they have an emperor-class titan firing at the mek gun the grot gunners simply cannot be shot unless that 5000 point titan moves his bane-blade sized ass across the battlefield to shoot those two gretchin.

In addition, the grot gunners only need to be within 3" to use the gun. You can deploy a big gun or mek gun on the bottom level of a ruin, the first grot gunner on the first level and the second one on the top level. A mek gun can even hold two objectives at once, since it has five grot gunners.

There is literally no scenario where gretchin would be able to hold an objective that grot gunners cannot hold.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

Making the only good unit of the codex worse, is not going to make others better. If you make boyz bad enough, at some point gretchin will become the better troops choice and replace them entirely - everyone will be taking min grot squads as troop tax and then fill up on kommandoz and stormboyz.

Runtherd+Gretchin need to be able to do something that boyz cannot do, currently that's not the case.

I looked up the ork faction popularity. From what i could find in old dakka polls orks were the 4th most collected faction in 2010 and 2014. Orks has been a prominent part of 40k since rouge trader. Why were we not among the first to recieve a codex? Has popularity and ork miniature sales dropped? or do they not have any rules designers interested in orks anymore? Both financially and gamewise I don't see why subfactions like blood angels or grey knights get codexes before they tackle the core factions... are orks even a core faction any more?

I know this might be the wrong place to ask, but we need that codex! This thread has been reduced to "spam boyz", it feels like even after chapter approved the real usefull tactical options with orks are too few.

Gitdakka wrote:
I looked up the ork faction popularity. From what i could find in old dakka polls orks were the 4th most collected faction in 2010 and 2014. Orks has been a prominent part of 40k since rouge trader. Why were we not among the first to recieve a codex? Has popularity and ork miniature sales dropped? or do they not have any rules designers interested in orks anymore? Both financially and gamewise I don't see why subfactions like blood angels or grey knights get codexes before they tackle the core factions... are orks even a core faction any more?

We had the first codex last edition and that didn't end well. Be glad GW is establishing the power level norms before throwing us out there and then turning the power levels of other armies up. They did that last edition. Not as fun as it sounds.

I think if grots get a kill an ork unit in 9 inches should get D6 extra attacks

Zomnivore wrote:
I think if grots get a kill an ork unit in 9 inches should get D6 extra attacks

At first I laughed, but I actually really like this idea. It's fluffy that the boyz don't want to be put to shame by a bunch of grots, it's a nice little buff that would make me want to take some grots, but they wouldn't become required, and it would take some nice positioning and a little luck to pull off.

Letting grots somehow take bullets for the boyz they are next to sounds good, maybe on a 4+ the enemy unit's shooting target is changed to the grots if they are at least 3" from the boyz being shot, this would help elites/mobs get some blast wounds and still help with screening/small fire/sitting on points; have to rework how ammo runts work and reduce the unit size a bit... (make grot mek gun crews get this rule too!)

Zomnivore wrote:
I think if grots get a kill an ork unit in 9 inches should get D6 extra attacks

There are 2 ways this could go: it could be a very interesting addition to the ork rules that requires some positioning and maybe a little risk to pull off, or it could never get used because the payoff isn’t worth the addition of grots to our army. I like the idea though. What if killa kans could buff Deff dreads somewhat similarly, and Grot tanks could do something with ork vehicles too? Not sure if it should work with big guns/Mek guns.

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

Remember what I said earlier? Here's another example.

"Ork boyz are playable, so to help with internal balance we should nerf them!"

Or...and here's a thought, instead of neutering the only good thing in our army, we instead buff some of the crap units to make them playable. Maybe give lootas 2D3 shots or make transports worth taking?

Stop trying to nerf one of the weakest armies in the game!

SemperMortis wrote:

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

Remember what I said earlier? Here's another example.

"Ork boyz are playable, so to help with internal balance we should nerf them!"

Or...and here's a thought, instead of neutering the only good thing in our army, we instead buff some of the crap units to make them playable. Maybe give lootas 2D3 shots or make transports worth taking?

Stop trying to nerf one of the weakest armies in the game!

Would you pay 7 points for Ork boyz if they had a 5+ Save?

pismakron wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

Remember what I said earlier? Here's another example.

"Ork boyz are playable, so to help with internal balance we should nerf them!"

Or...and here's a thought, instead of neutering the only good thing in our army, we instead buff some of the crap units to make them playable. Maybe give lootas 2D3 shots or make transports worth taking?

Stop trying to nerf one of the weakest armies in the game!

Would you pay 7 points for Ork boyz if they had a 5+ Save?

No.

If you took 60 wounds on turn 1 before you even started (which almost all non-ork armies can do) you would lose 10 less with armor. If you started with 840 points of boyz ( 140 6 pointers or 120 7 pointers) you would get to use 80 7s or 90 6s after alpha. By turn 2 you would have 40 of each, and would have zero by turn three. The only difference would be the 10 extra sixers on turn one. Cheaper is better.

 Jidmah wrote:


You might want to re-read the rules for the artillery units. The grot gunners are a separate unit from the cannon. Even if they have an emperor-class titan firing at the mek gun the grot gunners simply cannot be shot unless that 5000 point titan moves his bane-blade sized ass across the battlefield to shoot those two gretchin.

In addition, the grot gunners only need to be within 3" to use the gun. You can deploy a big gun or mek gun on the bottom level of a ruin, the first grot gunner on the first level and the second one on the top level. A mek gun can even hold two objectives at once, since it has five grot gunners.

There is literally no scenario where gretchin would be able to hold an objective that grot gunners cannot hold.

Of course I know that, but if the artillery dies, you'll only have 2-5 grots that cannot even shoot. And in green tides all the anti tank goes against artillery deleting every piece of it very easily, unless you have tons of them. Then a deep striking assault squad can fire a few crappy shots towards the surviving grot gunners deleting them all. 10 invisible gretchins require a full anti infantry unit to shoot at them to be removed. I use mek gunz, KMKs usually, pretty much in every game I play (big gunz only sometimes), I love them and I'm aware of their usefulness but in a green tide I'd only take a huge amount of kannonz. But sometimes they die turn 1 and the surviving gunners are worse than a unit of gretchin.

A unit of gretchin competes with boyz, if they get shot several boyz survive. Artillery soaks the anti tank and when some gunz dies a single dude can wipe out the gunners. Deepstriking assault units can also wipe out the artillery and the gunners very easily and usually artillery attracts some deep strikers. 10 gretchin can be ignored for the entire game instead.

I know they're a suboptimal choice compared to the artillery in holding objectives, but I think sometimes they may be more useful.

 JimOnMars wrote:


No.

If you took 60 wounds on turn 1 before you even started (which almost all non-ork armies can do) you would lose 10 less with armor. If you started with 840 points of boyz ( 140 6 pointers or 120 7 pointers) you would get to use 80 7s or 90 6s after alpha. By turn 2 you would have 40 of each, and would have zero by turn three. The only difference would be the 10 extra sixers on turn one. Cheaper is better.

What would you pay for ard'boyz? I mean, regular boyz with a 4+ Save? Eight points? Nine?

Lyceus wrote:


- splitting storm boys will increase the # power claws but also you will need to take moral checks and might lose models because of that. Also you can not congaline 10 models to a painboy or the banner.

You should have a mob of 30 boyz nearby that makes stormboyz fearless. After turn 1 you may have a teleported mob anyway.

The banner and the painboyz don't work like a KFF, you just need a single member of the unit that is within 3'' to give the bonus to the entire squad.

Hey All! First post here, I've been a long time stalker but finally plucked up the courage to register an account and contribute to the discussion. Believe it or not I've read every one of the 118 pages prior which seems a bit crazy now I write it down.

OK so I run a fluffy Evil Sunz list. It's not great but I enjoy it and I'm committed to playing a fluffy list over a powerful one. That said I'd enjoy my games a lot more if some of the tools I have at my disposal were a bit better. I'll probably post my thoughts/wishlisting on that at a later point.

I had to jump in the topic re Boyz' cost; their points surely can't go up?! Why are some of us suggesting GW nerf our own faction lol?

Ard Boyz in my opinion should be a Stratagem upgrade for a Boyz squad (perhaps linked to Bad Moonz?). Pay 1 - 3 CP to upgrade 1 - 3 squads of Boyz I reckon.

Gretchin need a function, as has been said already. They could function as our Snipers but I really, really, REALLY like the idea of them somehow impacting on the enemies' capacity to fall back from combat and/or as a buffing unit for Boyz.

I would also love it if we were able to use Kommandos or Tank Bustas to somehow impact on the ability of vehicles to fall back from combat.

I feel that currently Orks are very boring and lack much variety or tactical nuance. I'm not just talking about Boyz spam and our less points-efficient options. I feel like we should have Kunnin' abilities or weapons that enable us to affect the enemies' movement, saves (invulnerable and otherwise), psychic abilities and/or deployment options. I mean we have the least number of units able to deepstrike and outflank if I'm not mistaken? There is so much history and unique flavour to Orks that GW will hopefully tap into. Where are the crazy random effects from SAG? Why can't I turn someone into a Squig (at great risk to oneself of course)?! I'm quietly hopeful that GW will give us unique and powerful abilities that come at great risk, as it should be.

pismakron wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:


No.

If you took 60 wounds on turn 1 before you even started (which almost all non-ork armies can do) you would lose 10 less with armor. If you started with 840 points of boyz ( 140 6 pointers or 120 7 pointers) you would get to use 80 7s or 90 6s after alpha. By turn 2 you would have 40 of each, and would have zero by turn three. The only difference would be the 10 extra sixers on turn one. Cheaper is better.

What would you pay for ard'boyz? I mean, regular boyz with a 4+ Save? Eight points? Nine?

9 is too much. That would make the 'ardboyz just as survivable, per point, as soft boyz, assuming 60 wounds per turn. Both units get wiped out at the same time. The problem with "equal survivability" in this example is that during all that time, you get less offensive output from the smaller units of 9ers. Same defense...less offense.

Imagine taking boyz with a 1++ save that even works against mortal wounds (i.e., they can never die.) how much are they worth? An infinite amount? No...just lack of dying is not much of a virtue (with the very real exception of objective camping!)

At 8 points per 'ard boy, you still have a few left when all the 6ers are gone, so they can start to make up some of that offensive output deficit that the 6ers put up in turns 1 & 2.

Of course, this analysis is mathhammer at its worst, and assumes a whole lot that's not really true. But lack of offensive output (per point) is a real problem, as orks are costed for defense and close combat which is so easy to avoid in 8th.


ETA:

To add to that, costing for defense in this game is very bad. Defense, in itself, is great! Who wouldn't want a better chance to live? But offense carries with it an automatic defense: After you use your offense, the enemy has less ability to hit you next turn...more of you survive.

So a point of offensive capability gives you a free fraction of a point of defense.

A point of defense gives you nothing for offense. A meganob is no better at killing than a nob, but a choppa boy (in combat) is much more likely to survive a protracted battle than a shoota boy.

Sadly, orks are so ridiculously overcosted on offense we really can't compete, and that's index vs index. The exception being choppa boyz...but the rules of the game so disfavor combat we are doubly screwed (slow movement, multiple overwatch, free retreat [new word: Freetreat...])

I am afraid that our codex won't be enough. If we get the same percentage boost that the other armies get with their codexes, it will be in defensive capability, which is fundamentally inferior to offense in this game. We fall further behind.

Write GW!


One more thing...

Defensive capability used to be better balanced in this game because of two factors: there was less shooting, and defensive units could lock offensive ones in combat for most of the game.

GW has conveniently removed those two strengths of defensive play from 8th. I do not think they realized how much this unbalanced the game, and favored alpha strike armies. I kind of doubt they have figured it out even now.

Again, for us, this is bad, as "slow and tough" used to be a thing. Now "slow and tough" just means "don't bother playing."

Honestly, 9 points for an 'Ard Boy seems right on. 8 points would feel like an auto take.

I'd probably still auto take them at 10 points, at 11 I'd even still consider it on small squads. 4+ is soo nice this edition on t4 models. If 'Ard Boyz came back I wouldn't be surprised if it was only 5+ at 9 points.

pismakron wrote:
What would you pay for ard'boyz? I mean, regular boyz with a 4+ Save? Eight points? Nine?

I would gladly pay 7 pts for 5+ save boyz, or 8 pts for 4+ save boyz. That would help trukk boyz a lot. But that’s just dreaming...

SemperMortis wrote:

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

Remember what I said earlier? Here's another example.

"Ork boyz are playable, so to help with internal balance we should nerf them!"

Or...and here's a thought, instead of neutering the only good thing in our army, we instead buff some of the crap units to make them playable. Maybe give lootas 2D3 shots or make transports worth taking?

Stop trying to nerf one of the weakest armies in the game!

Weakest armies??? WHAT?
https://youtu.be/CfKketr-ReM?t=6m21s

Results wise, it's was the 4th best army IN THE GAME in october. You can't argue with results...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Nora wrote:
Raising the cost for boyz by 1 point would make Grots as well as everything else more considerable. It would also make the codex more balanced.

Remember what I said earlier? Here's another example.

"Ork boyz are playable, so to help with internal balance we should nerf them!"

Or...and here's a thought, instead of neutering the only good thing in our army, we instead buff some of the crap units to make them playable. Maybe give lootas 2D3 shots or make transports worth taking?

Stop trying to nerf one of the weakest armies in the game!

Weakest armies??? WHAT?
https://youtu.be/CfKketr-ReM?t=6m21s

Results wise, it's was the 4th best army IN THE GAME in october. You can't argue with results...

The video itself has no information other than "orks are great again" thrown out with no lists or discussion of what makes them good. It refers to top ITC list on bloodofkittens... What were those lists even?

As it stands, the only really solid units we have right now are pretty much boys, stormboys and weirdboys. Everything else is overcosted or is too squishy and requires overcosted transports to function or has little utility and thus should be converted into moar boys. I've tried running many varied fun army lists that did not rely on boy spam (so 60-90 boys) vs other non-mono, non-tourney guard, necron and GK lists and everytime it felt like an uphill battle.

I'd rather see other units in the codex get beefed up to properly compete with boys, because if you nerf boys, then you nerf only viable thing our index has. Hopefully not by price drops but rather by bump of quality and performance. We already have to use ridiculous ammounts of models.