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I use the models with the the big choppa, but I prefer to model mine holding it one-handed so the other arm can hold a shoota, which costs no points.

The AoS 'Ard Boyz kit has a bunch of two-handed choppas on models that are Nob size, but their arms are different than Nob arms and it would take some converting to get it right.

Every nobz box has 4 big choppas (three two-handed, one one-handed) and one can be found in the warbiker's box (one-handed).

It should not be hard to get those bits online, since people used to built all nobz with PKs and the nobz sprues have been in almost every bundle after AOBR.

You can also model a big choppa by cutting a regular axe-like choppa in half and putting a toothpick between the two halfs. Then attach it to the back of a nob instead of the now defunct boss pole.

On the topic of converting nobz, what are people using as banner nob? Is it likely there will be a new kit for this one?

Nora wrote:
On the topic of converting nobz, what are people using as banner nob? Is it likely there will be a new kit for this one?

My waaagh banner is a combination (bitz cut and repositioned) of a regular choppa, two boss poles and the big icon from the battlewagon. A few other bitz like skulls to add some details.

Nora wrote:
On the topic of converting nobz, what are people using as banner nob? Is it likely there will be a new kit for this one?

Flash git body, Black Ork banner arm, regular nob arm with AOBR Warboss Kombi shoota.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
The AoS 'Ard Boyz kit has a bunch of two-handed choppas on models that are Nob size, but their arms are different than Nob arms and it would take some converting to get it right.

They work pretty well as Nobz just with a few additions. The tusked helmets can be turned into gas masks simply by cutting the tusks off and gluing a small slice of hollow plastic-card tube onto the base. The addition of a little bit of razor wire gives their weapons a much more 40K look, quite aside from making them look more brutal. Then just add gubbins like sidearms and stickbombs which most of us will have in droves lying around, and you've got Nobz!

 Blackie wrote:

Msolve wrote:
Just how viable are Orks without having a huge model count army? I really, really like the Orks character but I do not want to be playing tournaments with 200 model armies.

For tournaments? You only have one way to bring a competitive list with less than 180-200 bodies, just include the garg squiggoth. Stil have to bring 100-120 orks anyway, but certainly not as many as they fit in green tides.

The issue with horde armies in tourneys that are not static (IE guard) are time. It takes forever to move all those models. Nids are the same way.

Since we are talking about Nobz. I noticed that shootaz are free, and you don't need to give up your close combat weapon. Has anyone tried nobz with just shootas and ammo runts? If so, how did it go and how did you model it?

 Glane wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
The AoS 'Ard Boyz kit has a bunch of two-handed choppas on models that are Nob size, but their arms are different than Nob arms and it would take some converting to get it right.

They work pretty well as Nobz just with a few additions. The tusked helmets can be turned into gas masks simply by cutting the tusks off and gluing a small slice of hollow plastic-card tube onto the base. The addition of a little bit of razor wire gives their weapons a much more 40K look, quite aside from making them look more brutal. Then just add gubbins like sidearms and stickbombs which most of us will have in droves lying around, and you've got Nobz!

Spoiler:

I like the gas masks, good job!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Geemoney wrote:
Since we are talking about Nobz. I noticed that shootaz are free, and you don't need to give up your close combat weapon. Has anyone tried nobz with just shootas and ammo runts? If so, how did it go and how did you model it?

A pretty common Nob backpack accessory is a shoota in a scabbard. I think most competitive players give all of their Nobz shootas.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:
Since we are talking about Nobz. I noticed that shootaz are free, and you don't need to give up your close combat weapon. Has anyone tried nobz with just shootas and ammo runts? If so, how did it go and how did you model it?

A pretty common Nob backpack accessory is a shoota in a scabbard. I think most competitive players give all of their Nobz shootas.

That's exactly what I did when building my Big Choppa Nobz.
Use the two handed choppas, with the shootas on their back.

 Geemoney wrote:
Since we are talking about Nobz. I noticed that shootaz are free, and you don't need to give up your close combat weapon. Has anyone tried nobz with just shootas and ammo runts? If so, how did it go and how did you model it?

Taking Nobs to only use Shootas and Choppas seems like a waste but it is the cheapest way to run them. I know it'll be rubbish but I want to try max Nobs with Kustom Shootas and Ammo Runts using the DakkaDakkaDakka strat. Feels like it would do better than statistically it should.

I tend to take a mix of 1 or 2 base Nobz, 1 or 2 BCs or Power Stabbas and 1 or 2 PK in my Nob groups. All have shootas and Ammo Runts if possible.

Lost my first game by about 1-2 points (ITC missions).

Sooo turns out... 30 deepstriking super gaunts(90 shots) that shoot twice are pretty good. I lost 70 models turn 1. However with the rest I still managed to drag the game out to us only having 4-5 units(my characters and goblin gunners, his very wounded characters, russ and manticore with no missles) Really close game despite losing 70 models turn 1 - I'd say that's not too bad.

However, how do Orks even avoid that? No access to scout, no real screen, per say. Gaunts Deepstrike within 9'' and have 18'' range... Hm...

Also the painboy did literally nothing other than hurt himself basically. 0 6+++ made

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Lost my first game by about 1-2 points (ITC missions).

Sooo turns out... 30 deepstriking super gaunts(90 shots) that shoot twice are pretty good. I lost 70 models turn 1. However with the rest I still managed to drag the game out to us only having 4-5 units(my characters and goblin gunners, his very wounded characters, russ and manticore with no missles) Really close game despite losing 70 models turn 1 - I'd say that's not too bad.

However, how do Orks even avoid that? No access to scout, no real screen, per say. Gaunts Deepstrike within 9'' and have 18'' range... Hm...

Also the painboy did literally nothing other than hurt himself basically. 0 6+++ made

You make those 6+++ saves.

Did you take out your KFF Mek? Didn't he help at all with the Gauntopalyspe?

Yeah, I tried my 3rd list. I rolled real bad on saves. But great on charges...
Still. 90 S4 shots will obliterate 25+ models on average.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Lost my first game by about 1-2 points (ITC missions).

Sooo turns out... 30 deepstriking super gaunts(90 shots) that shoot twice are pretty good. I lost 70 models turn 1. However with the rest I still managed to drag the game out to us only having 4-5 units(my characters and goblin gunners, his very wounded characters, russ and manticore with no missles) Really close game despite losing 70 models turn 1 - I'd say that's not too bad.

However, how do Orks even avoid that? No access to scout, no real screen, per say. Gaunts Deepstrike within 9'' and have 18'' range... Hm...

Also the painboy did literally nothing other than hurt himself basically. 0 6+++ made

1) We have excellent sacrificial screens in Gretchin or widely spaced boyz, but we have no scout moves and no way of infiltrating units. So we have very few options against the alpha-deepstrike. What we do is the following:

Deploy backwards, behind a thin sacrificial line of chaff. It has severe penalties, because you are essentially giving up 9-10" of table space. The good thing is that you know when you have second turn, and when your opponent deploys stuff into reserves.

Deploy half of you own army into reserves. This means brining LOTS of kommandos.

Bring enough bodies to eat the damage. Losing 70 models in a 1250 points game is a bit extreme, but in a 2000 point game you will usually lose 60+ boyz in the first turn. That is what I count on losing against the Guilliman parking lot

Wait for the codex, where we will hopefully get a the means of scouting or infiltrating

2) If you lose 70 models in the first turn, then the painboy should save 12 on average, earning his points back and more. Also, if you end up with severely wounded characters, then a painboy would have been very useful. But if the painboy is not working for YOU then you should try something else in your next game. The KFF-mek or perhaps 10 more wounds.

3) How did he make them shoot twice?

We can easily lose 70 models in a 750 point game against shooty nids before we get to move. 90 devourer gaunts will do that, even without shooting twice.

 JimOnMars wrote:
We can easily lose 70 models in a 750 point game against shooty nids before we get to move. 90 devourer gaunts will do that, even without shooting twice.

I think it was 30 devourer gants, not 90. 90 devourer-gants is 720 points. Not easy to fit into a 750 points list.

True. 800 then.

2CP to make gaunts shoot twice.
The painboy thing was just bad luck ofc. Still, I think I need two. I could not really congoline all units to his 3'' bubble. We have BIG pieces of impassable terrain. AND that was hammer and anvil. It I had a bigger deployment zone - I don't even know.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Lost my first game by about 1-2 points (ITC missions).

Sooo turns out... 30 deepstriking super gaunts(90 shots) that shoot twice are pretty good. I lost 70 models turn 1. However with the rest I still managed to drag the game out to us only having 4-5 units(my characters and goblin gunners, his very wounded characters, russ and manticore with no missles) Really close game despite losing 70 models turn 1 - I'd say that's not too bad.

However, how do Orks even avoid that? No access to scout, no real screen, per say. Gaunts Deepstrike within 9'' and have 18'' range... Hm...

Also the painboy did literally nothing other than hurt himself basically. 0 6+++ made

Hey well done mate, 1-2 ITC points loss vs a top tier army for your first game is pretty good IMO.
Gaunts with 18' range should only do that sort of damage once. But yeah that's not fun. There's really no way around it, as people are saying, and you can expect that sort of damage from most shooty lists. What a lot of peoples answer is resorting to more bodies, it's fairly tried and true. We don't have "answers" like you're asking, but neat deployments and not having holes in your KFF/Painboy bubbles does help (if you're bringing them). Basically your goal is to not provide good target priority. Also, if you're playing table size 6'x4' at 1250 points, I think you're fethed, that is not balanced for walking across the table and puts you at a significant disadvantage vs anything that shoots (so basically anything).

Noooooo. I forgot +1 attack for 20+ boyz. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I think... I think I could've won despite losing 70 models turn one... Wow. Orks are pretty BS

Maybe just try bringing Grotsnik instead of a pain boy.

I'm just as awesome as you are with 6+++ saves and often mange to finish games without succeeding a single one. In that case Grotsnik still has the profile of a warboss and might make his points back by simply punching stuff to death. Due to his tripple-save, he is also one of the few models that we have that can go toe to toe with some mid sized melee models and survive, while a regular warboss might get stomped flat by a dread or daemon prince.
Don't expect him to stop close combat specialists with lots of attacks though.

I like the painboy with green tides, IMHO he adds a lot. His 6++ becomes something if you have 100+ bodies in his aura, considering the entire game, and it's still ad additional pk or killsaw on a 4W character to dispose of. For 53-55 points he's great for those kind of lists. He's also one of the cheapest but efficient elite choices we have, a must take if you want to field a green tide brigade. Certainly better than the banner and more effective than min units of kommandos, while bigger squads are not cheap at all. In my green tide brigade I had 2 doks and a large units of kommandos as elites.

Mad Dok is a bit different, he costs almost 50% more than a standard painboy and his aura is exactly the same as the one granted by standard doks. You pay those points not for his bonuses but for his profile, he's more durable and more killy, which means you have to throw him into combat to make him shine comparing to a standard painboy. I think he matches better with lists that rely on transports. A standard warboss with pk is cheaper than grotsnik though.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Noooooo. I forgot +1 attack for 20+ boyz. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I think... I think I could've won despite losing 70 models turn one... Wow. Orks are pretty BS

Bummer. I am sure your opponent did NOT forget to reroll wound rolls of 1 because of 20+ termagants. The attack bonus is actually even better now that we have the mob-up stratagem.

I think a big part of the value of the painboy comes from healing characters. Healing 4 wounds on Ghaz or letting a Weirdboy make another D6 smite is enough to earn his points back. The 6+++ can be okaish, but there is an opportunity cost to conga-lining that needs to be taken into account.

I hope we get infiltrating Gretchin in the codex.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Noooooo. I forgot +1 attack for 20+ boyz. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I think... I think I could've won despite losing 70 models turn one... Wow. Orks are pretty BS

I guess we'll never know. No, Orks aren't BS, I'll remind you that you're taking the best list Orks have access to. If you want to see just how BS we are why not take those 3 Bikers and Trukk? Throw in the Battlewagon for lulz. In fact, take any model you like the look of, rather than spamming our only unit that works well and let us all know how you do in your tournament then.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Noooooo. I forgot +1 attack for 20+ boyz. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I think... I think I could've won despite losing 70 models turn one... Wow. Orks are pretty BS

I guess we'll never know. No, Orks aren't BS, I'll remind you that you're taking the best list Orks have access to. If you want to see just how BS we are why not take those 3 Bikers and Trukk? Throw in the Battlewagon for lulz. In fact, take any model you like the look of, rather than spamming our only unit that works well and let us all know how you do in your tournament then.

Please stop this pointless argument. We all know that orks has a strong build and a strong FW model and little else. Bickering changes nothing.

pismakron wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Noooooo. I forgot +1 attack for 20+ boyz. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I think... I think I could've won despite losing 70 models turn one... Wow. Orks are pretty BS

I guess we'll never know. No, Orks aren't BS, I'll remind you that you're taking the best list Orks have access to. If you want to see just how BS we are why not take those 3 Bikers and Trukk? Throw in the Battlewagon for lulz. In fact, take any model you like the look of, rather than spamming our only unit that works well and let us all know how you do in your tournament then.

Please stop this pointless argument. We all know that orks has a strong build and a strong FW model and little else. Bickering changes nothing.

Claiming Orks are "BS" does not indicate that "we all know that Orks has a strong build and a strong FW model and little else".

I fought against one of the best armies in a game with a codex. We both had great lists. I got alpha struck to all hell and with that buff, I think I could've won. Now if I had a codex.... ooooooooh boy.

And why would I take terrible units, lol.

I think there is more nuance to Orkz than people give credit. In game strategy can be as complex as list building, and that includes remembering your rules. Your narrow losses will be wins after you play this army for a few months. Especially in ITC.

If I'm honest, I don't expect the codex will buff the units you bring in your particular army, but getting stratagems and chapter tactics will probably increase your win-rate by 20%.