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Tzeentch daemons are surprisingly bad at spellcasting compared to Thousand Sons and Eldar. We get some okay spells but not nearly as much in terms of cast buffs or rerolls.

The best damage daemons have against a Castellan is a Khorne DP with Skullreaver. The tricky part is getting him into combat. Bloodletter bombs are the other decent option assuming you have a way to clear the screen before T3.

 knas wrote:
But you can't benefit twice from the same ability either way right?

You cant benefit from the same ability twice, thats true. But psychic powers arent abilities. Stratagems arent abilities either.

I use a bloodletter bomb to deal with knights. 30 bloodletters and a herald seems to do the job nicely with the fight again strat and the 4++ strat. The trick is catching the guy out in the open to hit him.

Azuza001 wrote:
I use a bloodletter bomb to deal with knights. 30 bloodletters and a herald seems to do the job nicely with the fight again strat and the 4++ strat. The trick is catching the guy out in the open to hit him.

I agree here. My best anti knight stuff is dumping bloodletters on em. That 2 damage on 6s to wound is NASTY en masse.

 knas wrote:
But you can't benefit twice from the same ability either way right?


On a sidenote: How are daemon players dealing with Castellans?

mass of resilient infantry like pb's

 p5freak wrote:

 knas wrote:
But you can't benefit twice from the same ability either way right?

You cant benefit from the same ability twice, thats true. But psychic powers arent abilities. Stratagems arent abilities either.

Its random enough i wouldnt bother relying on it.

 Zid wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 knas wrote:
But you can't benefit twice from the same ability either way right?

You cant benefit from the same ability twice, thats true. But psychic powers arent abilities. Stratagems arent abilities either.

Its random enough i wouldnt bother relying on it.

Its not at all random.

You can rely on it to 100% cast the worst spell in the given scenario, most notably casting infenral gate when the closest enemy target is alone, in the middle of your army.\

Seriously, this somehow happens EVERY game I take him (at one game it happened three times x_x)

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 knas wrote:
But you can't benefit twice from the same ability either way right?

You cant benefit from the same ability twice, thats true. But psychic powers arent abilities. Stratagems arent abilities either.

Its random enough i wouldnt bother relying on it.

Its not at all random.

You can rely on it to 100% cast the worst spell in the given scenario, most notably casting infenral gate when the closest enemy target is alone, in the middle of your army.\

Seriously, this somehow happens EVERY game I take him (at one game it happened three times x_x)

If you place the blue scribes within 18" of enemy models, and within 18" of friendly models, there is only a 1/6 chance that nothing will happen. That is when you roll a 6 for infernal gateway, which has 12" range. All other spells will have an effect. And if you have your gaze of fate re-roll you can re-roll that 6.

I'm going to a tournament this month that limits you to a single battalion. Here's my idea for Daemons. Thoughts, anyone?

Am i right in thinking that added models from the daemonic icon, when i roll 1 for morale, can take a unit above its starting strength, without costing reinforcement points ?

 p5freak wrote:
Am i right in thinking that added models from the daemonic icon, when i roll 1 for morale, can take a unit above its starting strength, without costing reinforcement points ?

I was wondering about this the other day. I don't think you can though as it says add D6 slain models to the unit which implies it would cap out at their original starting strength as if the models weren't slain they can't be added.

Edit: FAQ suggests you can take the unit above it's starting strength but would need to pay the reinforcement points for the models over and above

 Tonberry7 wrote:

Edit: FAQ suggests you can take the unit above it's starting strength but would need to pay the reinforcement points for the models over and above

Ok, found it in the BRB update 1.3.

Q: What about rules that add models to existing units; do I
need to pay reinforcement points for those models?
A: No (unless the rule itself says otherwise or adding the
models would take the unit above its starting size).

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Am i right in thinking that added models from the daemonic icon, when i roll 1 for morale, can take a unit above its starting strength, without costing reinforcement points ?

I was wondering about this the other day. I don't think you can though as it says add D6 slain models to the unit which implies it would cap out at their original starting strength as if the models weren't slain they can't be added.

Edit: FAQ suggests you can take the unit above it's starting strength but would need to pay the reinforcement points for the models over and above

D6 slain models may = models that have been part of the unit and removed from play due to unsaved wounds...

...BUT. Three Pink Horrors die. I’ve got three Blue Horrors to hand, and pay the Reinforcement Points for them. Then, in the Morale Phase, I roll a one for the unit. Would those Pink Horrors coming back to reality will take the unit “above its starting strength”?

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Am i right in thinking that added models from the daemonic icon, when i roll 1 for morale, can take a unit above its starting strength, without costing reinforcement points ?

I was wondering about this the other day. I don't think you can though as it says add D6 slain models to the unit which implies it would cap out at their original starting strength as if the models weren't slain they can't be added.

Edit: FAQ suggests you can take the unit above it's starting strength but would need to pay the reinforcement points for the models over and above

D6 slain models may = models that have been part of the unit and removed from play due to unsaved wounds...

...BUT. Three Pink Horrors die. I’ve got three Blue Horrors to hand, and pay the Reinforcement Points for them. Then, in the Morale Phase, I roll a one for the unit. Would those Pink Horrors coming back to reality will take the unit “above its starting strength”?

Hmm, it's debatable as to what is meant by "starting strength". If you started with 30 pinks, and now have 27 pinks and 3 blues are they the same "strength"? A pink horror and a blue horror aren't the same and don't have the same offensive output or defensive ability, and so personally I would say no, but I can easily see the validity of the argument on the other side of saying that the unit is 30 models strong.

In short, send an email to GW's rules team. Until they FAQ it just talk about it with your opponent.

The way I'd look at is you've added three models to the unit this game, and paid the points for doing so. Replacing the slain pink horrors would only really be an issue if the blue horrors were free when a pink died.

Now, if you had those three added blue horrors shot off the board and had the opportunity to re-add them, that's where I reckon it gets super murky!

unit strengt=number of model matter nothing what kind of models you have into it, so yes 30 pinks or 27 pinks+3 blue= same identical strengt, no need for faq.

What's the consensus on scabieathrax?

Probably over costed since his price hike, but looks to me to be the only viable exalted greater daemon out of the four. Give him the fleshy abundance and virulent blessing psychic powers and he is an absolute bulwark/beatstick. Cast miasma on him and/or give him the plaguefly hive WT and he is tougher still, and can regenerate further with the strategem.

His buff to other units is nice but not spectacular, and he is unfortunately very slow without trees or bilepiper. Can be buffed insanely by epidemius, probably best achieved with DG plagueburst crawlers chipping away at the tally.
Could he be semi-competitive?

Are Exalted Flamers good anti-tank daemons? I read on a Reddit chat that they were.

i saw a brief conversation on summoning a couple of pages back. Turn 1, biker lord zips up field and gets into position... that's a 20" move eh? Turn 2, prime position to summon within 12, a unit or two of daemons. Not too shabby eh??

 blackmage wrote:
unit strengt=number of model matter nothing what kind of models you have into it, so yes 30 pinks or 27 pinks+3 blue= same identical strengt, no need for faq.

Eeer, no its not?

In no place is it defined what "unit strength" or "full strength" is.

If the claim is that it's purely the number of models, than you surly don't mind that when using an ability (or stratagem) that returns a unit to full strength, I'll give it different weapons? perhaps ones far more powerful than it initially had on the list?


The only proper way to define "full strength" without creating nonsense cases is "the unit in its original form", and lacking 3 pinks yet having 3 extra blues is NOT the original form.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are Exalted Flamers good anti-tank daemons? I read on a Reddit chat that they were.

They're not absolutely competitive but with the points drops they are pretty good. The main issue in a competitive environment is they don't have enough dakka per points to be your only source of anti-tank. So while they will be outputting some decent support damage every turn, you will still need something beefier to actually kill tanks. I think they can be fun for finishing off things like T8 armor opportunistically. It's almost like having an extra smite in the shooting phase.

eternalxfl wrote:
i saw a brief conversation on summoning a couple of pages back. Turn 1, biker lord zips up field and gets into position... that's a 20" move eh? Turn 2, prime position to summon within 12, a unit or two of daemons. Not too shabby eh??

Except for the part where he then has to not die, roll his random dice for summoning, and they're still at best no closer to the enemy than they would be if you just used Denizens of the Warp (though at least you saved some CP). Summoning is still not good.

Sokhar wrote:

eternalxfl wrote:
i saw a brief conversation on summoning a couple of pages back. Turn 1, biker lord zips up field and gets into position... that's a 20" move eh? Turn 2, prime position to summon within 12, a unit or two of daemons. Not too shabby eh??

Except for the part where he then has to not die, roll his random dice for summoning, and they're still at best no closer to the enemy than they would be if you just used Denizens of the Warp (though at least you saved some CP). Summoning is still not good.

The main problem I see with summoning is that it is tied to am immobile Chaos character. That means that you have to 1) know where you're going to summon a unit the turn before you do it, even with the swirling battlefield; and 2) hope your enemy doesn't either prevent you from doing so by moving too close or make your landing point irrelevant by moving away your target of choice.

Those are both variables over which you have very little control. I'd much rather pay the CP and feel secure that my Pinks can come down wherever they need to, or my Letter Bomb can come down absolutely where it HAS to.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
unit strengt=number of model matter nothing what kind of models you have into it, so yes 30 pinks or 27 pinks+3 blue= same identical strengt, no need for faq.

Eeer, no its not?

In no place is it defined what "unit strength" or "full strength" is.

If the claim is that it's purely the number of models, than you surly don't mind that when using an ability (or stratagem) that returns a unit to full strength, I'll give it different weapons? perhaps ones far more powerful than it initially had on the list?


The only proper way to define "full strength" without creating nonsense cases is "the unit in its original form", and lacking 3 pinks yet having 3 extra blues is NOT the original form.

yes it is indeed at least that is how ruled at tournaments, so for me is ok i dont care of garagehammer rules galore


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Are Exalted Flamers good anti-tank daemons? I read on a Reddit chat that they were.

if they was good most demon lists would run them... but they dont, they are good in casual lists for friendly games

slave.entity wrote:They're not absolutely competitive but with the points drops they are pretty good. The main issue in a competitive environment is they don't have enough dakka per points to be your only source of anti-tank. So while they will be outputting some decent support damage every turn, you will still need something beefier to actually kill tanks. I think they can be fun for finishing off things like T8 armor opportunistically. It's almost like having an extra smite in the shooting phase.

blackmage wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
if they was good most demon lists would run them... but they dont, they are good in casual lists for friendly games

Ok, I'll probably keep them in the wings and use them to finish off any advancing armor that gets through my main heavy units.

Exalted used to be better before knights pushed the meta to require you to be able to deal with their T10 bs

Knights are T8.

exalted aren't a thing against Knight 3 hits (usually at 4+ unless they dont move)ap -4 is pointless cause Ik anyway save at 5++ at worst, and just d3 damage.... nothing great

Chaos daemons got a top 6 in LVO, using a summoning list of all things with almost 700 points in reinforcements. Not sure what he routinely summoned though. I'd be interested to know.

I have started a daemon army recently and everyone says summoning is useless, I don't think so. You can summon whatever you want, if you roll the needed number, and even if you don't, you can summon something else, less powerful. There is almost no limit to what you can summon. You can summon the best counter units to your opponent's army. After seeing what he puts on the table.